Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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JPRouve said:
In general you know that it isn't a top one when he isn't on schedule, asks you for more money and refuses to explain why he is struggling. It's very unlikely that you would rehire or recommend him to anyone.
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Where do you feel Ten Hag should have us? Given the churn of the squad, injuries and giving some talented youth players a chance?

Yes some signings weren't great but some were too. I don't think anyone could have done a flawless job given what he was given. I think he deserves one more summer with actual professionals bringing in players.
 
Overhaul FC said:
Yes some signings weren't great but some were too. I don't think anyone could have done a flawless job given what he was given. I think he deserves one more summer with actual professionals bringing in players.
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Actual professionals were bringing in the players last summer...? They didnt fall off the back of a lorry.

You said yourself that some signings were great.

Only change this summer is that Hag would be getting players forced on him for a system that he isn't capable of orchestrating. Which if all else fails should force him out, along with the wage reduction and refusal to give him a new deal.
 
hobbers said:
Actual professionals were bringing in the players last summer...? They didnt fall off the back of a lorry.

You said yourself that some signings were great.

Only change this summer is that Hag would be getting players forced on him for a system that he isn't capable of orchestrating. Which if all else fails should force him out, along with the wage reduction and refusal to give him a new deal.
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So you think we should act in the same way that did we did with LVG, Jose and Ole? And just get rid, rather then sign them top players?
 
Beachryan said:
Don't want to pick on you as you're new, and some of these points have been voiced elsewhere. To be clear, I don't think ETH is going to be here next year adn I think he knows it. But these sticks people are beating him with..at least get the facts straight.

1. Antony is his fault. The fee is not his fault. If Antony had cost what he should have (less than the two players you mentioned) I think people would be more okay with it. ETH identified Antony early, the club waited til the season had started, panicked, and hugely overpaid. That is nothing to do with ETH. Similarly, I've seen nothing whatsoever to suggest ETH wanted Casemiro. There were no links, no rumours, nothing until the moment we went into panic mode and presumably Case's agent came calling. Those two combined are almost half the spending ETH gets abused for. You think ETH wanted players only available on loan? Are you serious? Of course not. And the De Gea argument? You go ahead and let me know how he's getting on with his new club then. Admittedly, he's not conceded many goals this year!

2. We had no fit CF for the first month of the season, our non-creating right-winger was avoiding the Brazilian police, our other right-winger was engaged in a tantrum and our key goal scorer from the season before seems to have forgotten that he likes football. The great savior from fans (Amad) wasn't fit. ETH's new, highly mobile, energy-driven midfield of Mainoo and Mount weren't fit. So, erm, who is it that was supposed ot be doing the scoring?

3. Garnacho runs his heart out every match, you think he's downed tools? Sancho is not thriving in the Bundesliga, he's played 15 times and has 2 goals and 2 assists. In the Bundesliga, where goals come free. I'm not sure of evidence that ETH is causing the injuries somehow, but he obviously did not cause Martinez's, did not cause Malacia's, did not cause Mount's and so forth because these players aren't even playing. Varane gets injured if he sneezes, and did before ETH.

Again, I just challenge people to consider what another manager would do with the players actually made available to him. He's culled off over 23 first teamears since he came in, and brought in barely 10 (not loanees). His great tactical plan was mobility and energy with Mainoo and Mount, and both have missed huge chunks of the season. He wanted a senior CF to lead the line (called Harry Kane) and was given a kid with barely a season of top-level football in him. He is using Ole's first XI with a couple of kids and a new keeper. There is no mystery full back he can call on, or mobile defensive midfielder, or even a substitute centre forward. Look at our bench the last few matches.

If your argument is that ETH is causing these injuries, that's a good reason to turn against him, but I'd love some evidence of that. Otherwise, a manager has to deal with the team he has, and this team, with these injuries, is toast. It's mid-table. And we are.
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I think he's asking too much of his first team players, which is leading to the injuries. He does not rotate. Last year when we were chasing FA Cup, European Cup, and UCL qualifying, he played the same players for most games. I also think he lacks a system that works in EPL. I think he has not gotten players to perform better than they have. Mostly though I blame the fact that we cannot seem to get the right players at the right price. While that may not be his fault, he did want Antony, which tells me (along with his tactics) that he's not suited for EPL. I cannot trust him to find EPL quality players. Hojlund was the only signing I can agree with, and even then I think they overpaid for an unproven (at EPL standards) player. We have two players on our roster that we spent over a hundred million on that don't or barely play (Sancho/Mount). I get that Sancho wasn't ETH's fault, but I disagree that it's his attitude. Maybe his attitude mirrors the rest of the team's, and he was the only one willing to show it.

They never should have paid 95 million for Antony. They should have walked away and saved the cash for a real team-changer. They didn't need to pay 50 million for Onana. All of this wasteful spending will keep us under the UCL bar for years to come.
 
Overhaul FC said:
Where do you feel Ten Hag should have us? Given the churn of the squad, injuries and giving some talented youth players a chance?

Yes some signings weren't great but some were too. I don't think anyone could have done a flawless job given what he was given. I think he deserves one more summer with actual professionals bringing in players.
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He should have us nowhere near 12 loses after 33 games, nowhere near 60 expected goals against which puts us in the bottom 5, he shouldn't have us last in our CL group and he shouldn't have us looking completely disjointed for an entire season. And I don't want to hear anything about the quality of our players, bottom half teams lack talent but for the most part they do not look like a bunch of strangers even when they have injury crisis which applies to many teams every seasons.

Also I don't think that he deserves anything, I don't mind people giving him one more summer but I do have a problem with the idea that he deserved it because he clearly doesn't.
 
Matthew1972 said:
I think he's asking too much of his first team players, which is leading to the injuries. He does not rotate. Last year when we were chasing FA Cup, European Cup, and UCL qualifying, he played the same players for most games. I also think he lacks a system that works in EPL. I think he has not gotten players to perform better than they have. Mostly though I blame the fact that we cannot seem to get the right players at the right price. While that may not be his fault, he did want Antony, which tells me (along with his tactics) that he's not suited for EPL. I cannot trust him to find EPL quality players. Hojlund was the only signing I can agree with, and even then I think they overpaid for an unproven (at EPL standards) player. We have two players on our roster that we spent over a hundred million on that don't or barely play (Sancho/Mount). I get that Sancho wasn't ETH's fault, but I disagree that it's his attitude. Maybe his attitude mirrors the rest of the team's, and he was the only one willing to show it.

They never should have paid 95 million for Antony. They should have walked away and saved the cash for a real team-changer. They didn't need to pay 50 million for Onana. All of this wasteful spending will keep us under the UCL bar for years to come.
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I'd strongly argue there are many things to blame ETH for, but the cost of signings is not one of them. The body of evidence of United massively over-paying for mediocrity extends to before ETH had become a manager, and is as much a feature of the Glazer's United as Old Trafford leaks.
 
I just looked at the table as I’ve been avoiding it for weeks and weeks. 12 losses in 33 is absolutely abhorrent for a club our stature. It’s just disgraceful injuries or not.

That alone gets you the sack end of the season. Shown absolutely zero fight to get results going on losses alone. Nearly 50% of the games are losses is a joke.

United can’t actually do any worse than this with anyone in charge. It’s not realistic to do worse even with an injury crisis at a big club.

League is your bread and butter end of the day and it was this guys job to get a squad who could at least compete for top 4-5.

We haven’t got even remotely close which again I have zero answers for given our clubs advantages over everyone bar City basically in the market.

Not to mention our shameful CL campaign which is an embarrassment on our record now forever.
 
Overhaul FC said:
So you think we should act in the same way that did we did with LVG, Jose and Ole? And just get rid, rather then sign them top players?
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You mean top players ike Grealish, or Rice, or MacAllister, or Troussard, or Zinchenko, or Doku, or Alvarez, or Haaland, or Jota, or Nunez?
 
Overhaul FC said:
So you think we should act in the same way that did we did with LVG, Jose and Ole? And just get rid, rather then sign them top players?
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We should have sacked ETH at christmas when the season was still salvageable. Dont know what you mean about the previous failed managers. Except we acted too late in sacking all of them too. And focused too heavily on trying to rescue bad/past it managers with top signings.

What top players are we going to be signing this summer, who will be happy to come and play in the Europa conference for a lame duck manager on the cusp of the sack? No one remotely close to being a top player is going to want to come except your has-beens looking for a last payday, like Casemiro.
 
hobbers said:
We should have sacked ETH at christmas when the season was still salvageable. Dont know what you mean about the previous failed managers. Except we acted too late in sacking all of them too. And focused too heavily on trying to rescue bad/past it managers with top signings.

What top players are we going to be signing this summer, who will be happy to come and play in the Europa conference for a lame duck manager on the cusp of the sack? No one remotely close to being a top player is going to want to come except your has-beens looking for a last payday, like Casemiro.
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So we tried to save "past it" managers by signing WHICH top players?
 
NLunited said:
No he did not injure his ankle.
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Sorry, foot.

He’s missed a total of 265 days and 48 matches since arriving, with 4 injuries. How is that in any way reliable? Just because you want him to be durable doesn’t mean he is and bringing in new CBs is a smart move.
 
JPRouve said:
That's an interesting one because he installed the current fuse box and it was working last year, things when bad when he modified his own installation. Unless last year didn't happen, in which case you are right.
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The fuse box had some of old fuses that worked great at first, but need replacing after one year. The old wiring is shorting out some of the new ones.

When full power is on it burns through the fuses after about 30 minutes.
 
Look im still with ETH just, but he has to change his ways if he is to be successful here.
He needs to manage a bigger squad, root out those with bad attitude and get his team playing for him and the shirt.

As for him refusing to speak to some of the media, why not,, its ok for them to spot negativity about him 24/7 why not give them a bit back.
 
NLunited said:
The fuse box had some of old fuses that worked great at first, but need replacing after one year. The old wiring is shorting out some of the new ones.

When full power is on it burns through the fuses after about 30 minutes.
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Sounds like the house owners didn't want to pay for a full electrical rewiring.
 
NLunited said:
The fuse box had some of old fuses that worked great at first, but need replacing after one year. The old wiring is shorting out some of the new ones.

When full power is on it burns through the fuses after about 30 minutes.
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And we hired an electrician that couldn't spot it, yet billed the cost of a new fuse box that he actually purchased used on Ebay?
 
bdspeedy said:
We'll NEVER win the league as long as the current ownership and board are here. The rot is irreparable. The team culture is delusional and grotesque. Get rid of the players and personnel who've viewed and used the club as an attraction, theme park or an ATM and get competent football people in.
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Right so get rid of the manager too then yes?

quadrant said:
More like, you hired an electrician to rewire the house, but gave him nothing but a hammer and nails to do the job. Hard to judge how he would have done otherwise.
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Yeah if I gave him money to buy materials, and he buys the wrong stuff thats his fault. But I've stil hired the wrong guy for the job and need to replace him with someone else.
 
NLunited said:
More like the electrician you hired us running into trouble with the old wiring and it is fecking up some of the new wiring as well. He knows what the trouble is but needs more time to fix it.

Meanwhile the house is getting sold and some new general contractors are brought in.
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He might know and he might be able to fix it. But based on what he's done so far it doesn't look he does, so you get someone else.
 
NLunited said:
The fuse box had some of old fuses that worked great at first, but need replacing after one year. The old wiring is shorting out some of the new ones.

When full power is on it burns through the fuses after about 30 minutes.
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You could see this but the electrician couldn't?

Lets give him another five years
 
Overhaul FC said:
Good point for some situations.

But United didn't hire a handyman. In this example they hired an electrician, and you might only know if he was a top one all along... until he's done the full rewire, and turns the lights on.
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Yeah you might not know, personally I wouldn't take the risk.
 
lex talionis said:
The problem is that better options are not available this summer. If it meant bringing in Southgate or Potter I'd rather we stick with ETH and focus our energies on upgrading the squad as well as sending ETH during his two week break to a psychiatrist to teach him how to be less stubborn.
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Most managers are available every summer when you are offering to make them one of the worlds top 5 paid coaches.
 
stevoc said:
He might know and he might be able to fix it. But based on what he's done so far it doesn't look he does, so you get someone else.
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He‘s the fifth brought in to fix it. It makes one think the electrician may not be the issue.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
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Not really sure what else they would say. I’m not convinced that telling the manager he’s getting punted at the end of the season would maximise our results between now and then.

As for him ignoring the press, good. Most of them are cnuts anyway, he should have taken this approach earlier.

I’ll be disappointed if he’s still here next year but will try and get on board with it if the alternatives are Southgate and Potter, assuming EtH is not calling the shots re transfers anymore. But if the likes of Brian Brobbey start coming up as striker suggestions in the summer, I’m taking a break from football for my own mental wellbeing.
 
If you lot don't stop with this fecking electrician analogy I will electrocute you all
 
NLunited said:
He‘s the fifth brought in to fix it. It makes one think the electrician may not be the issue.
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We've had 5 managers fail in a row, we all know the issues at the club. It's been a shitshow circus act for years, that's hired a series of ill suited, average or past it managers. But the managers have still failed.

That trend has continued with Ten Hag, because if you're saying the manager isn't the issue then should we have just stuck with Jose or Solskjaer for another few years and hoped everything just somehow worked out yes?
 
JPRouve said:
Also I don't think that he deserves anything, I don't mind people giving him one more summer but I do have a problem with the idea that he deserved it because he clearly doesn't.
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Correct.

If they decide to keep him, he should consider himself very lucky.

Because there are all sorts of reasons why they should just kick him out on his arse.
 
hobbers said:
We should have sacked ETH at christmas when the season was still salvageable. Dont know what you mean about the previous failed managers. Except we acted too late in sacking all of them too. And focused too heavily on trying to rescue bad/past it managers with top signings.

What top players are we going to be signing this summer, who will be happy to come and play in the Europa conference for a lame duck manager on the cusp of the sack? No one remotely close to being a top player is going to want to come except your has-beens looking for a last payday, like Casemiro.
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Casemiro is definitely past his prime, AND HE STILL LOOKS BETTER THAN HALF THE TEAM.
 
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