None of these processes and highly thought of individuals are infallible. I’d hope United fans know better than just following or trusting any and everything served by the club just because “it’s different now, it’s coming from INEOS”. It’s important that fans form their own opinions based on available evidence and what’s observable.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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None of these processes and highly thought of individuals are infallible. I’d hope United fans know better than just following or trusting any and everything served by the club just because “it’s different now, it’s coming from INEOS”. It’s important that fans form their own opinions based on available evidence and what’s observable.
Who are these plenty of managers and which clubs brings that many players after two years that you could say that it's the manager's team? And has that ever been the case for ETH?
They are going to know a lot more than we do, and they are a lot more credible than we are in assessing the situation.
Good on Erik for calling out his haters, love to see them getting triggered by his comments. Indeed a disgrace. Feck media and anyone supporting those clowns.
Hes also said the notion that there has been an injury crisis this season is false. Its not false.
We are currently at 59 based on Opta's xGA, Understat has us at 63 but Opta is a more reputable source. Now the worst part is the xG because you could make the argument that we are open because we are offensively creative or potent but the xG is currently at 47.2 for Opta.
Honestly that's hard to tell, Ten Hag's system in its best state, as I understand it, comes with very high potential highs but also low potential lows. It sacrifices a degree of control for the potential to dominate, keeping the opposition penned in.
We'd definitely be doing better than we are at the moment, there is a question mark as to whether the inherent variance and lack of control would be sustainable long term compared to the likes of Pep's City where the system is all about control and lack of variance.
That can be applied to almost anything. Imagine using that as justification to “trust” every outcome that goes against available evidence, your own eyes and knowledge. A core tenet of being a fan - in life even - is being able to use your own discernment
4th-5th
Let's be honest we had something close to our best 11 against Wolves 1st game of the season (Onana, AWB, Varane, Martinez, Shaw, Casemiro, Antony, Bruno, Mount, Garnacho, Rashford) but that game already looked like a warning sign that playing the way ten Hag wants can't work. It was at home and against midtable side but we were still massively exposed. Then away game at Spurs and Arsenal were even encouraging to some extent, but everything since then proved that it doesn't work.
Ultimately we're 7th with negative goal difference, no control in games and conceding almost as many shots as Sheffield United or something like that. We've been performing like midtable team. Many injuries yes and especially in defence, but that's not good enough of an excuse.
Ultimately we're 7th with negative goal difference, no control in games and conceding almost as many shots as Sheffield United or something like that. We've been performing like midtable team. Many injuries yes and especially in defence, but that's not good enough of an excuse.
Yes - that is why fans dont run clubs. They can have an opinion, but well qualified people in established roles should be making the deep dive and are more likely to draw the right conclusions.
Was going to write a long as feck post explaining why I get why Erik has said what he did. Were we shit on Sunday? Yes. Are the media cnuts? Obviously yes.
Summed up well here: https://x.com/AlternativeMUFC/status/1782758644540494030
Summed up well here: https://x.com/AlternativeMUFC/status/1782758644540494030
You're trying to put words in my mouth, that isn't what I stated.
What I'm referring to are clubs that plan in advance for managers, look at the likes of Brighton, City, Southampton, off the top my head all clubs that have adopted a club approach from youth teams up to the first team, and managers are brought in with that style in mind, so that any manager that comes in has a squad and youth that largely fit the system required. There's always some fine tuning involved, but no huge overhauls.
We were in complete control in the first half as Coventry sat back and basically allowed us to do what we wanted.
At halftime they changed their system a bit and came at us more, and from then on it was 50/50. So it was at that point that we 'lost control', although Coventry wasn't in control either.
Then around the 70th minute or whatever it was they made a couple of subs which made them better, we made a couple of subs which made us worse, and it was mostly chaos from us from that point forward while they took advantage.
What we saw in the first half is basically what ETH's system is supposed to bring. That's what he wants to see every match. The issue is that for it to work this season it basically requires a poor quality opposition who sit off us and let us do what we want. As soon as even that poor quality opposition makes a few changes and decides to get at us, we tend to descend into chaos where we're relying entirely on individual quality instead of seeing any benefits or strengths of the system.
The press maybe useless, but he has got a very easy ride so far. Looks more clueless than Ole who was called a P.E. teacher and the moment he has a little criticism, he gets all cnutish.
He has been crap, and deserves the sack. He has nothing going for him. Performance, results, squad building, etc. all suck.
He has been crap, and deserves the sack. He has nothing going for him. Performance, results, squad building, etc. all suck.
No he's not. However he is also quite clearly not coaching them to keep the ball or setting up a system that allows them to control a match when we are under pressure. These things should be getting drilled into players so it's second nature and they do it without even thinking, and there's plenty of managers with worse players doing just that. We simply don't, and we've gotten significantly worse at it under his management.
Also, I don't like this narrative of us only becoming bad after 70 minutes. The momentum of the match started turning right from halftime.
I didn't put anything in your mouth. You stated that the squad wasn't his and I asked you when he ever had his squad during his career The vast majority of clubs do not follow an approach from youth teams to the first team, and the vast majority of clubs do not sign a head coach that is a perfect fit for what they have, now most managers adapt to what they have.
As an example Brighton didn't plan their squad for De Zerbi, it would be strange to state that it was his team when he arrived in September because Potter left for a surprising job opening at Chelsea. It would be even stranger to make that claim when De Zerbi's main setup in his career has been 4231 while Potter's main setup has been with a back 3 in terms of squad building that's an important distinction.
As I said I don't really understand this "not his squad" statement that people sometimes make, it's not something common in Football. And head coaches are rarely in that type of context.
Still waiting for someone to ask him why Rashford keeps starting despite being consistently shite
"Heh but you see, he is in a process, his form is clear. every game he makes a step, we are very pleased with him. heh"
Agree. I wouldn't mind some kind of reaction as we did few months back. Ban those in media who are disrespectful and are only there searching for some reactions so they can sell papers.
We're on track to equal our worst ever goals conceded in PL history (57 goals in the Ole/Rangnick season of 21/22), and the fact that we seem to be getting worse as the season wears on and we've got quite a tough end of the season means we are very likely to beat it. And that's just in the league, we're significantly worse this season if we take all competitions (conceding 1.64 goals per game this season compared to 1.4 goals per game in 21/22).
We were almost, if not, at full strength when we got beat 0-7 and 6-3 by the Dippers and City. The bloke is a fraud of a tactician and well out of his depth. His signings just reiterate how poor a judge of player he is.
Yeah, that's why I said I'd play more compact. The defence doesn't have enough pace to play high so the forwards and midfield need to play deeper.
You did, and continue to do so. I never said that a head coach would be a perfect fit, there's obviously adaption, but the level of adaption required varies.
Brighton didn't plan specifically for De Zerbi, but he had been on a shortlist for a while. It's basic succession planning. Under Potter they'd been steadily building up a squad that was comfortable in possession under pressure etc, so while De Zerbi has brought in changes, he was a starting from a point where the squad could reasonably be expected to transition. Compare that to a squad that had been assembled for a pressure-allergic mid block for over half a decade like ours has, there's quite a clear difference.
Ten Hag could easily have adapted to the squad by continuing down the mid block route, but that wasn't why he was brought in. We've seen the limitations of that, and so are trying to adopt an entirely new system that the squad wasn't remotely suited for (and still isn't).
As for your last paragraph, let's just say I disagree, it's pointless us doing this dance again and again.
It was partly about tactics. Coventry got a massive slice of luck with the deflected goal but the space they found is because of our team setup. Eventually, if you let teams shoot constantly they'll smash it in the top corner or it will deflect in the other side.
I asked you questions because if a manager isn't a perfect fit and there is a level of adaption required then how is it his squad? At which point do we state, x squad is his?
Surely you understand why I stated that I don't understand that claim?
Thank God we're safe. On to the summer please so we can forget this dumpster fire of a season.
Why do people get so offended/pressed by what he says to the media? It doesn't really make any difference to what he's showing on the pitch (which is dreadful). Also feck the media.
Feck me how triggered are some of you lot. Ten Hag is totally correct in calling out the media response to the semi-final victory. No it wasn’t good, and United fans can dissect that, but the ABU media ought to wind their neck in. The fact we’ve pissed so many of them off is one of the silver linings of this shit show of a season.
There's a world of difference between a squad that can be referred to as his squad, and a perfect fit on joining. But a handful of first choice picks, a few club signings driven by a dysfunctional footballing department, some emergency loan signings and free stopgaps, some youth players, and a load of legacy brought in to play an almost antithetical style of football clearly doesn't fit the bill.
Okay. Applying those criteria how is the current squad not his?
My point exactly. He's still our (shite) manager.
Presume he has gained some yes votes on here purely due to that presser. Knew that was going to persuade some he should get another season
man expects a standing ovation after blowing a 3-0 lead to a lower league team and scrapping through on penalties. Deluded.
That also feels right. I definitely remember our opposition missing sitters way more frequently than we do. I know some have convinced themselves that if our strikers had been clinical, and referees hadn’t screwed us, we would be in title race now but that notion is very incorrect. We are lucky to be where we are and also lucky that our GD is just -1.
He seems very confident to be honest. I think he will have been assured that he’s completely safe.
The problem is there are a lot of people who get jobs that they are not qualified for and are ill-suited for.
Football is no different. United has terrible ownership and poor football staff. The two are intertwined.
United is an easy fix with the right leadership.
Many fans have pegged the problem. When you do not have a strong front office failure is inevitable.
As or blaming the media Ten Hag is barking up the wrong tree. When your team shits the bed like that you always own it and take responsibility.
Letting a championship side comeback from 3-0 deficit in the last 20 minutes is amateur hour.
United was extremely lucky to win. If you don’t want the media to criticize you then perhaps Ten Gag should stop with the bad decision making and flawed tactical plans.
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