Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[JPRouve]

No fan of the football and quite likely EtH out myself now BUT..... He can't win here can he? He doesn't say anything and he's weak or a coward and should speak up against the media or he does say something and he's lost the plot or become unlikeable.

This place is as of the rails as RAWK or bluemoon these days.

He isn't supposed to win and the only thing he should have said was "We played poorly and should do better in the future". The press rightfully wanted his opinion about a performance that could be seen as embarrassing and he first suggested that people should celebrate the performance/result and now he is suggesting that the reaction from the outside is embarrassing and disgraceful.

If the performance was remotely acceptable he may have a point but on this case it wasn't.

 

[mu4c_20le]

What the heck? this sounds like caf fiction

 

[stevoc]

Having had a few days to consider the game, I have a few issues with this video as follows.

1. This guy is clearly pushing an Anti-ETH agenda because it gets him clicks and likes. United sacking a manager and then the search for a replacement is always going to sell magazines and papers. He’s literally begging for it to happen. Absolutely no mitigation is considered at all. It’s a very biased take.
2. Not isolated to this video, but there seems to be a total over exaggeration of ‘how bad our game was’. It wasn’t. We were cruising for 70 mins until Robins matched up our formation and went full court press. (And more importantly we lost our out ball to Garnacho and our MF resistance in Mainoo - no doubt those subs weakened our team) First goal is a good move and a great finish. Our defending was woeful and they capitalised on this. But my god, I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. They levelled up the game with an enormous flukey deflection and a really weak penalty that should have been over turned by VAR. We had a similar incident in there box but of course we can whistle for a pen. No conspiracy theories or paranoia but that just shouldn’t have been a penalty. I don’t know where Aaron was supposed to put his arm?!
3. This dude bangs on about how bad our defensive positioning is, and he’s right. It’s pretty poor. Why is that? Could it be because we had a RB at left back (whose positioning in his natural position isn’t always spot on) and an aging CM in defence? Could it be because Casemiro was staying deep to cover the fact he moves like he’s towing a caravan these days? We were patched up to hell, but that’s nothing to do with it. It MUST be the managers tactics and how shite our players are. Obvs.
4. Poor little Coventry were robbed, we got a lucky VAR call to overturn the ‘goal’ in ET. We scrapped through etc. Guess what, VAR and offside is part of the game. He was offside as per the current rules. It was a correct call to disallow the goal. It’s not unlucky - it’s poor play from the forward who should be looking across the line. It’s literally the rules of the game. Sorry, not sorry.

Look, I’m not saying we weren’t at fault, I’m not saying it acceptable for our team to implode when Kobbie and Alejandro are rested (even though we know Antony is shite, and Eriksen has seen his best days and hasn’t played football in forever), I’m not saying our defense is great, our positioning correct or the tactics don’t need looking at - but there is absolutely no context being put on the game and it’s bizarre how this is being spun as our worst game in the history of the universe. All things considered it really wasn’t that bad, and we know this team is exceptionally fragile mentally - goals were inevitable when the first one went in, but we were very unfortunate to end up playing ET and penos.

@hobbers, I’m replying to the video not your post so don’t bother replying - we already know it’ll be terrible ten hag this and sack kill destroy that. Save us the misery.

Has it been any different all season regardless of who's making up the back 4?

The video basically highlights that this has been a trend in our defending all season.

 

[Jev]

The ones just posted about the 21/22 season

The goals, which are equal to this season? I’m curious as to what stats prove that we were more open defensively in a season where we conceded the same amount of goals, fewer shots, and had an XG against after 38 games that was five goals lower than it is now after 32?

 

[bosnian_red]

It was pretty clear that Garnacho didn't have any injury and he was pissed off at the sub, not sure why Ten Hag feels the need to say this to defend himself. He's allowed to sub him off and to me it was partially as a response to the twitter stuff, but also ... No need to make shit up.

 

[The Mitcher]

And people wonder where Antony got it from

Antony probably never had it.

 

[Cassidy]

The goals, which are equal to this season? I’m curious as to what stats prove that we were more open defensively in a season where we conceded the same amount of goals, fewer shots, and had an XG against after 38 games that was five goals lower than it is now after 32?

I did say this in the last response. “ Still comparably we were not far more open than ever this season”

 

[LawCharltonBest]

He's become quite defensive lately. He can't handle any criticism despite deserving plenty of it

His quote "for me, 4 cup finals in 4 years" felt like one out the Mourinho handbook. (Although wouldn't it be 5 finals in 4 years if he included the League Cup?)

Does seem to me like someone who is defending his stock

 

[JPRouve]

The goals, which are equal to this season? I’m curious as to what stats prove that we were more open defensively in a season where we conceded the same amount of goals, fewer shots, and had an XG against after 38 games that was five goals lower than it is now after 32?

Isn't that the season where De Gea was statistically one of the worst shot stopper in the league?

 

[The Mitcher]

It was pretty clear that Garnacho didn't have any injury and he was pissed off at the sub, not sure why Ten Hag feels the need to say this to defend himself. He's allowed to sub him off and to me it was partially as a response to the twitter stuff, but also ... No need to make shit up.

Yep, Garnacho looked fine. Definitely not being honest with us.

 

[Plant0x84]

Has it been any different all season regardless of who's making up the back 4?

The video basically highlights that this has been a trend in our defending all season.

That’s the point though. There are no positional relationships or patterns because the players keep changing.
Obviously every player plays a different way and has different strengths and weaknesses compared to others in the same position. They won’t all react to situations the same as each other. This has an impact on the quality of our play.

 

[Plant0x84]

It was pretty clear that Garnacho didn't have any injury and he was pissed off at the sub, not sure why Ten Hag feels the need to say this to defend himself. He's allowed to sub him off and to me it was partially as a response to the twitter stuff, but also ... No need to make shit up.

Yep, Garnacho looked fine. Definitely not being honest with us.

It’s possible Garnacho was pissed about getting injured?

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

His quote "for me, 4 cup finals in 4 years" felt like one out the Mourinho handbook. (Although wouldn't it be 5 finals in 4 years if he included the League Cup?)

Does seem to me like someone who is defending his stock

Yeah that's a good point.

That is very Mourinho, to start bringing up your individual record to defend yourself.

 

[The Mitcher]

It’s possible Garnacho was pissed about getting injured?

If you think he looked injured you need your eyes checked.

 

[bosnian_red]

It’s possible Garnacho was pissed about getting injured?

Nah that reaction was 100% the reaction of a guy who is fuming but knows he has to respect it because of the recent shit, and feeling like he's singled out because of that

 

[Jev]

I did say this in the last response. “ Still comparably we were not far more open than ever this season”

So it’s the word “far” you are contesting? Basically you now agree that we are more open than ever and it’s just the degree to which we’re more open you’re arguing with?

 

[The Mitcher]

That’s the point though. There are no positional relationships or patterns because the players keep changing.
Obviously every player plays a different way and has different strengths and weaknesses compared to others in the same position. They won’t all react to situations the same as each other. This has an impact on the quality of our play.

That is no different from any team in world football. And it's still not an excuse for why regardless of personnel we play the same and have the same issues.

 

[Cassidy]

So it’s the word “far” you are contesting? Basically you now agree that we are more open than ever and it’s just the degree to which we’re more open you’re arguing with?

I don’t no but not something I wanted to continue a debate about so conceded its closer than I thought. The xGA for those seasons also supports that.

 

[JPRouve]

That’s the point though. There are no positional relationships or patterns because the players keep changing.
Obviously every player plays a different way and has different strengths and weaknesses compared to others in the same position. They won’t all react to situations the same as each other. This has an impact on the quality of our play.

That only makes sense if for some reason ETH and his staff only work with 10 players at a time and only include the rest of the team to training sessions and video sessions if one of the ten is out.

 

[stevoc]

That’s the point though. There are no positional relationships or patterns because the players keep changing.
Obviously every player plays a different way and has different strengths and weaknesses compared to others in the same position. They won’t all react to situations the same as each other. This has an impact on the quality of our play.

We could play the same back 4 10 games in a row and we'd be as bad. The entire team has been making the same mistakes all season.

 

[Sarni]

The goals, which are equal to this season? I’m curious as to what stats prove that we were more open defensively in a season where we conceded the same amount of goals, fewer shots, and had an XG against after 38 games that was five goals lower than it is now after 32?

We are probably going to get to 57 goals conceded this year anyway, only difference being we got there that year despite having a lower xGA and this year it will be the opposite with our xGA hitting well above 60.

 

[MadDogg]

Fair, I get that and agree but again I have to bring it back to 65 injuries. It’s just ridiculous. We weren’t seeing these huge gaps last year when our best players were all fit.

We weren't seeing these huge gaps last season because we were still playing a very similar system to what we had under Ole. A 4231 that was mostly counter-attacking.

ETH changed formation and style this season to a 4141 with a huge gap between the back four and the attacking five, with one player expected to patrol that entire area by himself. Right from the very start of the season it has caused the exact same issues that we are seeing today. No matter what players were on the field and no matter who our opposition was.

 

[Irwin99]

I like that he's getting a bit more aggressive with the media. Probably could have done with that earlier in the season.

Injuries are very bad but there still should be enough to beat Sheffield United- although I can see it being another horrible game and dropped points wouldn't surprise me .

 

[Mike Smalling]

"Top football is about results" says the conman who finished bottom of an easy CL group and is barely hanging onto 7th in the league.

Yeah, if my team had just thrown away a 3-0 lead against Championship opposition in a Wembley semi-final and had relied on a very tight VAR offside call and a penalty shoot-out to avoid total humiliation, I would probably reel it in a bit.

 

[JPRouve]

We are probably going to get to 57 goals conceded this year anyway, only difference being we got there that year despite having a lower xGA and this year it will be the opposite with our xGA hitting well above 60.

We will be above 60 during the next 90 minutes.

 

[Plant0x84]

That only makes sense if for some reason ETH and his staff only work with 10 players at a time and only include the rest of the team to training sessions and video sessions if one of the ten is out.

No it doesn’t. For example, Do you think AWB operates the same at left back as Shaw? Does Amrabat? Does Dalot? No they don’t because each player has differing skill sets and abilities - and to a certain extent will interpret the managers instructions differently. Like I said, this will cause a change in how each player reacts to any given situation and will make for an unpredictable environment for team mates compared to a set back 4 who know each others game inside out.
It’s not a well oiled machine is what I’m trying to say.

 

[The Hilton]

I tend to avoid this thread due to dog piles like these, but I'll indulge for now.

No manager on the planet can expect to sign his 11 starters ever. This is just ridiculous talk.

Obviously. Nobody has stated otherwise.

The thing I don't understand about this is when has Ten Hag ever had his squad anywhere in his career? How many managers are ever in that position?

Plenty of managers are in that position or close to it, loads of clubs nowadays bring in players that they deem well suited for a particular style of play and the manager fits into that. It isn't put together exactly by them, but it is assembled with their style in mind. Hopefully after a few years under the INEOS regime we'll be in a similar position. Right now we're nowhere near.

Getting a manager's second choice doesn't make it any less his choice.

It absolutely can do, if the drop off in quality is enough. In the case of Martinez, I'll give you that he's a Ten Hag player, but Kane to Hojlund is obviously not equivalent, nor is De Jong to Casemiro, both club signings that were offered when Ten Hag's target didn't work out.

 

[King7Eric]

There is no injury crisis according to Neville

Neville has said that at the weekend 8-9 of the starters would be in our best team. He's not wrong. Shaw, Martinez and Varane are the only first teamers missing the last few weeks.

Obviously if Garnacho, Rashford and Bruno are unavailable then yeah fair enough we are missing half our full strength team.

 

[Hughie77]

I've got one bit of sympathy ETH and that's the unsettled back 4 all season. Before people start shouting every clubs had injuries etc, I don't think they've all been in the back line?

But he bought a keeper who's not very good imo he bought a CM who been out more than in.. he was injured at Chelsea so how the feck did he pass a medical?..

ETH bought Antony , Swansea got a player called Ronald he's better that Antony , D James is better than Antony. Eth bought him . The guys got to go for signing those players mentioned.

Utd needed a CB everyone new it , he doesn't buy one . The guys done nothing to say he can keep his job, I wanted to give him another season but I think the players have had enough as well..

Hojlund Garnacho , Mainoo are the future and I'd say Dalot who's had a very good season in a poor side as well the rest mediocre .. a new manger as long as its not Southgate could get more out of these guys.

 

[Plant0x84]

We could play the same back 4 10 games in a row and we'd be as bad. The entire team has been making the same mistakes all season.

Because it’s been changing all season! That’s the entire point!!

 

[golden_blunder]

He's become quite defensive lately. He can't handle any criticism despite deserving plenty of it

So he does know how to be defensive!

 

[Desert Eagle]

I like that he's getting a bit more aggressive with the media. Probably could have done with that earlier in the season.

Injuries are very bad but there still should be enough to beat Sheffield United- although I can see it being another horrible game and dropped points wouldn't surprise me .

Yeah weaksauce to only push back when your job is in danger and you feel like you need some self preservation. If he had shown more steel with the media and players and some self reflection we wouldn't be in this mess.

 

[pocco]

He did say that Bruno and Garnacho will probably be ok. We should be ok against Sheffield United.

 

[stevoc]

Because it’s been changing all season! That’s the entire point!!

Sorry mate, you can't watch the way this team has played all year and disregard the continual failures in basic structure and defending and blame it all on injuries.

We've had a settled midfield and attack for months. Same mistakes and suicidal play is happening, regardless of the opposition.

 

[pocco]

If you think he looked injured you need your eyes checked.

My first thought was that he was lying too, after the criticism of the sub. Funny how he said he came off injured but will be ok for the game tomorrow.

 

[JPRouve]

No it doesn’t. For example, Do you think AWB operates the same at left back as Shaw? Does Amrabat? Does Dalot? No they don’t because each player has differing skill sets and abilities - and to a certain extent will interpret the managers instructions differently. Like I said, this will cause a change in how each player reacts to any given situation and will make for an unpredictable environment for team mates compared to a set back 4 who know each others game inside out.
It’s not a well oiled machine is what I’m trying to say.

No it doesn't. The patterns of play of teams are based on the tactical backbone it doesn't actually change from one player to the other, now all the players are trained and coached to understand the general assignments of their position/role and also the general assignments of their closest teammates, then they also have alternate and emergency positions/roles, they don't just learn and train in their main position. All of that is trained and drilled from preseason to the end of the season.

And players do not individually interpret managers instructions, they are taught instructions and they are told how to interpret them on the field based on their own tapes and tactical sessions. They are also told how their teammates are supposed to apply and interpret them.

 

[Sarni]

We will be above 60 during the next 90 minutes.

Wasn't even aware it was there already. Bottom line is we have been extremely lucky to have only conceded 48 so far, with Onana pulling off numerous amazing saves and conceding very few savable goals in the league. Also bear in mind we conceded way more in CL than we did in 2021-22 where we only conceded 8 (vs whopping 15 this year). It's bonkers to think we are less open and better defensively this year.

 

[Sarni]

He did say that Bruno and Garnacho will probably be ok. We should be ok against Sheffield United.

We'll pull off an impressive 3-2 win against the odds again, and ETH will be a hero once again.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Martinez was a pivot after we missed out on Timber, Casemiro was a club signing already lined up that we pivoted to after FDJ didn't work out, Højlund was obviously down the list after Kane and while a huge prospect isn't ready to lead the line for us.

I agree that no manager can expect to sign 11 starters so quickly, but that still doesn't make it his squad, or even close to it. He hasn't done well enough with the squad he's got this season, I'm not disputing that, but this obviously isn't the dream team he's assembled to implement his system, it's a mish-mash of players he wants, stopgaps, and legacy.

Where do you think we would finish this season if he had his dream team available?

 

[pocco]

We'll pull off an impressive 3-2 win against the odds again, and ETH will be a hero once again.

Yep. We'll turn another corner tomorrow night.