The fecking Fergie argument again
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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The fecking Fergie argument again
Eh, the title is in quotes. They're quoting Sutton, who shared his opinion on a BBC show.
Jackson's latest nothing article: Compare, too, his record to that of Mikel Arteta, who was also questioned during the first two years of his tenure at Arsenal: the Dutchman has a 57.94% win rate compared with Arteta’s 58%.
It's almost like Ten Hag's PR team heard this stat somewhere and have immediately started firing it out to every journalist everywhere. Heard this comparison nowhere outside of this thread, until today.
It's almost like Ten Hag's PR team heard this stat somewhere and have immediately started firing it out to every journalist everywhere. Heard this comparison nowhere outside of this thread, until today.
It's a quote from one of their main pundits, hence why it has quotation marks (admittedly the wrong ones) around it unlike all of their other headlines. It doesn't have the BBC agrees in the title, nor anywhere else, because neither the corporation nor any of their journalists have corroborated this claim.
That's standard practice for serious newspapers (web sites today). But they don't pick the titles randomly.
Every time United manager is under scrutiny these things come out. How have Moyes, van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole done since getting sacked at United? Not like they got to manage a big club again.
Those were different times and Fergie was already established manager with his success at Aberdeen. Don't think ten Hag's Ajax stint can be compared to that even though he had that 2019 CL campaign.
Also Jamie Jackson -
Ratcliffe and his key adviser, Sir Dave Brailsford, are admirers of Gareth Southgate but any attempt to hire him would have to wait until England’s Euro 2024 campaign is over. That may well mean Ten Hag having the first month or so of the new season to impress, and if he does not Brailsford can speed dial his good friend to come in and save the day. How such a move would go down with United’s fanbase is unclear.
How much of a cretinous ABU wum do you have to be to still be pushing a narrative like this?
Ratcliffe and his key adviser, Sir Dave Brailsford, are admirers of Gareth Southgate but any attempt to hire him would have to wait until England’s Euro 2024 campaign is over. That may well mean Ten Hag having the first month or so of the new season to impress, and if he does not Brailsford can speed dial his good friend to come in and save the day. How such a move would go down with United’s fanbase is unclear.
How much of a cretinous ABU wum do you have to be to still be pushing a narrative like this?
Jamie Jackson is a Man Utd fan, isn't he? ABU seems inaccurate. Doesn't mean he's good at his job, however.
Have suffered his unsourced rehash articles for a decade but I've never had the impression he's a supporter. If he is it's well hidden, deep in those layers of bullshit.
Jackson is a fan of whoever pays him the most
Actually very positive to see Jackson coming out with this, in its own way.
Same thing was said for Moyes, LVG, Mou & Ole.
I don't get why it's hard to understand that Fergie's situation was an aberration. 9 times out of 10 you stick with an underperforming manager and nothing good will come of it. Fergie was an extremely unusual case where it happened to turn out amazing and that's even ignoring the fact that his pedigree upon arrival is far superior to Ten Hag's. You simply can't use this case to justify keeping someone who clearly isn't up to standard in the hopes that a miracle will happen, it's just bad business.
So you wouldn‘t rest Mainoo when you are 3-0 up against a championship side? You are just whining in hindsight. I would have taken Garnacho and Mainoo off as well, or Højlund, and expect the team to see out the game.
We can‘t prioritize FA cup games either, that‘s bollocks. We could easily miss out on Europa League football at this point.
Yeah we should give the manager time because Fergie got time back in the 80's. You can't sack a manager after only 2 years, how will they transfrom into Fergie mk2?
Do you know who else gave managers years and years of time to come good, Liverpool. Wonder how that worked out for them?
1991-2010 - 19 years
Graeme Souness - 3 years
Roy Evans - 4.5 years
Gerard Houllier - 6 years
Raf Benitez - 6 years
Then 2010-2015 - 5 years
Roy Hodgson - 6 months
Kenny Dalgish - 18 months
Brendan Rodgers - 3 years
24 years, 3 title challenges, 0 titles and then Klopp, seems like they only started getting somewhere once they started sacking failing managers quickly instead of waiting around for years hoping they'll come good.
I think that's almost certain to happen anyway at this stage with the form we've been in this year.
LVG said something along the lines of fan expectations were too high and it’s not 2008 anymore.
Jose said it was nothing new for United to get knocked out of CL and talked up his own record against us when we lost to Sevilla.
Neither of them were castigated for these comments. Managers say dumb shit all the time.
Erik didn’t actually say the way the game. Ended wasn’t an embarrassment, he merely said he wants to focus on the positives of a 2nd final In as many years. Thats fair enough really in my book.
We were 3-0 up to fecking Coventry, complaining about the subs is dumb dumb. We've overplayed some of these kids, there was a ridiculous amount of experience on the pitch compared to our opponents to finish the job on Sunday, and they all embarrassed themselves.
Jose got a rough time from a lot of United fans after those comments if I remember correctly.
You remember correctly. That was the last straw for many.
Don't think I've seen this posted yet. Even hipster youtube is seeing the light.
We didn't control the game after halftime. From that point forward it was pretty much 50/50 between the two teams, and then as we took off Garnacho and Mainoo it swung further and further towards Coventry.
Even when we do have good periods in games, it's a running trend that the opposition manager makes a change which swings the momentum of the game, but ETH doesn't seem capable of doing the same.
Absolute fecking bollocks
I don't know if you're remembering it wrong, or choosing to because it fits your argument, but those comments from Jose absolutely turned a huge amount of the fanbase against him. He was rightfully up against it afterwards, as it was classic Jose looking after Jose.A bit of momentum next year and a good summer, and he could turn things around. I'm still very much ETH in.
Bless your positive glass half full energy.
SJR probably doesn't want to (and shouldn't be) making the football decisions himself. That's what he's hiring the experts for, to make sure it's done right.
Not only that, but they never mention the state the club was in then compared to what each post Fergie manager came into now, and the fact that we had to sack a manager in Atkinson - who won two cups here - to even get Fergie in the first place.
Should be compulsory viewing for everyone at Ineos, and any fan who still tries to delude themselves that there's some plan hidden in the chaos.
I'm not really ETH in, but unless the next manager is in line with a long-term strategy and is someone who can handle the expectations at a club of this size I don't think it makes sense to hurry things. I cannot imagine any manager on the planet being successful here without at least half this squad being binned and some professionals being brought in. These are old problems.
I don't think Tuchel, Potter or Southgate are any sort of an answer if the question being asked is who can turn this culture around. And if we go with a less experienced but promising manager he'll need all the help available from the hierarchy in purging this squad.
When people say any other manager in the Prem would be preferable to ETH (which is hyperbole of course) it is the same flawed logic used when saying any player would be preferable to play x, y, z. We're not looking for incremental improvement are we? We're looking for someone (goes for players too) good enough to match the supposed newfound ambitions of the club. So a small improvement means feck all.
I don't think Tuchel, Potter or Southgate are any sort of an answer if the question being asked is who can turn this culture around. And if we go with a less experienced but promising manager he'll need all the help available from the hierarchy in purging this squad.
When people say any other manager in the Prem would be preferable to ETH (which is hyperbole of course) it is the same flawed logic used when saying any player would be preferable to play x, y, z. We're not looking for incremental improvement are we? We're looking for someone (goes for players too) good enough to match the supposed newfound ambitions of the club. So a small improvement means feck all.
Agreed, I don't want SJR to make any football related decision even if he watches football games and watches replays and analysis and whatnot, he has done very well so far by hiring experienced football professionals in Ashworth, Berrada and Wilcox, now let the professionals do their job.
Good man. Just get him better players, better coaches and ensure he doesn’t have to be responsible for much and he will come good.
Can’t you see it’s these fecking players letting him down?
So I'm 'whining in hindsight' am I, because I disagree with your statement, and came up with an alternative view.
Check my previous posts if you think I'm only saying this because of what happened Sunday.
Oh, at the bottom of this page it mentions being respectful to other posters, which I don't think you were.
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This is all the stuff most of us have been banging on about all season.
No momentum and a poor summer and it could get worse and leave us looking for a manager on the free agent market in November or December.
I like Ten Hag and ideally I’d rather he be the manager. And from a selfish point of view, I’m loving it a bit because the matches are so chaotic and must-see. But if you’re running the club and telling the fanbase we want to be the best team in England again, you have to think about it in a different way
It might just be my interpretation of things but I think that Wilcox story is just the first step in easing into ETH being sacked over the summer. Even if Wilcox just came in, Brailsford has been watching us every week for what seems like months now, and (As far as I'm aware) he is above all of these guys in the INEOS sporting structure. I can't see any way that he would be happy with what he's been seeing.
I know that Jim has said he's going to leave the football to the football people, but we need to be realistic here. The man is pumping millions of his own money into the club. If things are going bad, he's not just going to say "Well lads, keep at it. I don't have any questions here, I'm sure things will be fine." He will obviously question what's going on at the club. I can't seriously think him and Brailsford will have watched this season and think that the ETH project is worth persisting with. Even more so, they will have to make a decision on what to do with him this summer, which I think is either an extension or sacking him, as I don't think we ever see managers going into the last year of their contract not knowing what's going on?
I know that Jim has said he's going to leave the football to the football people, but we need to be realistic here. The man is pumping millions of his own money into the club. If things are going bad, he's not just going to say "Well lads, keep at it. I don't have any questions here, I'm sure things will be fine." He will obviously question what's going on at the club. I can't seriously think him and Brailsford will have watched this season and think that the ETH project is worth persisting with. Even more so, they will have to make a decision on what to do with him this summer, which I think is either an extension or sacking him, as I don't think we ever see managers going into the last year of their contract not knowing what's going on?
Yeah sure why not.
Only relaying the general gossip regarding his position, similar to the transfer threads.
You don’t need to be working in the club in any capacity to see the issues at United.
Wilcox, Ashworth , Jim , Berrada aren’t banned from watching sky sports or anything or even going to games.
It’s not like Wilcox rocked up at Carrington blurry eyed like a baby deer learning where the toilets are.
Him and anyone else watching football with even a basic knowledge of the game even under 5 coaches who do it part time on a Saturday can see the manager is hopelessly useless and it would be gross negligence to allow him to continue.
Wilcox, Ashworth , Jim , Berrada aren’t banned from watching sky sports or anything or even going to games.
It’s not like Wilcox rocked up at Carrington blurry eyed like a baby deer learning where the toilets are.
Him and anyone else watching football with even a basic knowledge of the game even under 5 coaches who do it part time on a Saturday can see the manager is hopelessly useless and it would be gross negligence to allow him to continue.
Weird post - glad you aren't running the club
We are in the grass is always greener over there period whereby people look at players and managers doing well at clubs not really comparable with the conditions at United and imagine that the qualities of these people will transfer to Old Trafford , just cause stuff.
Some think if fans waved a scarf at ETH, the glazers would act, even though they’ve never listened to United fans on a level about anything.
Some think replacing managers faster would yield greater success because it’s worked for better run clubs. Again, presuming that changing one variable (sacking managers sooner) will somehow compensate for all the other dysfunctional issues of the club that includes players in/out and contract extensions.
At this stage I’m apathetic to whether ETH stays or goes. It really is the smaller picture focusing on him. If INEOs does a competent , proper restructuring of the club and has a good long term plan (that may mean a year or two of erratic stuff) then that’s all that matters.
If that means keeping ETH or even hiring Potter or even Southgate (neither of which I want) , with some long term goal (even using them as interims of sorts), then I’d prefer that then some stop gap Tuchel appointment.
We want to get to the point that we can make Tuchel 2 year’s appointments, but I’d be thinking he’s the guy we get after a year or two of purging players and the last remnants of the glazers mess.
Do we have to write off two seasons ? No, we don’t and it may be possible to cobble together something ok, but if we look at Liverpool and arsenal (among others), they didn’t just hire Arteta and Klopp and it all went great. Fans need to accept that there is gonna be mistakes made and maybe even the wrong appointment (whether keeping ETH or replacing him with a bad alternative).
We are here because of the glazers, not SJR. A lot of money needs to be spent and a lot of work needs to be done to undo the damage. So fans shouldn’t judge things over next year or so as “200 million spent and this is what he get”. We aren’t a top club that has a top club record , we have been muck. It’s gonna take time to get us back to the levels where we can fairly he compared with clubs at the top table.
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