Competent owners stay out of football affairs and delegate that expertise to technical directors, DOF etc who have a better understanding of football operations than they do. This is what everyone wanted from the glazers and now suddenly no one is willing to wait for that process to take place under INEOS.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Competent owners stay out of football affairs and delegate that expertise to technical directors, DOF etc who have a better understanding of football operations than they do. This is what everyone wanted from the glazers and now suddenly no one is willing to wait for that process to take place under INEOS.
The way I read it is he's on trial now that Wilcox is in - not to pick up results, because Wilcox is doing a post mortem on the season from now, looking at the relationships with the dressing room, probably with medical staff, looking at his methods etc.
A ton of conclusions will be drawn from that, and they may well decide its best to part ways. Outside chance I guess that they see a wider problem and he's not the root cause.
Yeah I've re read it again and I stick by what I said. They're reviewing his training, his relationship with players, whether he can work in their new system and what the issue is with all the injuries. The two things that aren't mentioned? Results and performances. Literally the two most important things when assessing a manager. The rest of it he can easily blag, as he does on a weekly basis in the press.
The performances and results are a byproduct of what you named. They are looking at the why, which is what competent owners should be doing. Not just "blargh this is shite rage quit!"
They may well end up on the same end result in a decision to sack Ten Hag - if he's as bad as posters here claim then he'll be booted so I don't see the problem with a thorough audit.
You don't see a problem with this?
RedCafe: Why aren’t football people making football decisions?! Joke a football club.
*club makes slow but steady correct appointments- waits to get their opinion on things*
Also RedCafe: WHY ARENT THE BUSINESS PEOPLE SACKING HIM. WE DONT NEED TO WAIT FOR FOOTBALL PEOPLE!
How are they? If he tells them that the medical team is shit, the players are the problem etc etc, then the results and performances don't matter if they bought into it.
And he'll obviously say all of that to save himself.
There's no problem with Wilcox coming in to review why the performances landed up the way they did.
You think the review is just sitting Ten Hag down and asking him what went wrong?
It goes without saying an audit would be speaking to all sides to establish what the relationship is, where the blame lies, what went wrong in conditioning or implementation etc.
He shouldn't be sacked just as a punishment for poor performance. He should be sacked if it benefits the club.
I think for this seasons results and performances EtH deserves to be sacked. But that doesn't mean it would necessarily be the right decision to sack him now.
Sacking and finding a replacement would certainly involve Ashwoth and Berrada, neither have officially even started work yet.
I think for this seasons results and performances EtH deserves to be sacked. But that doesn't mean it would necessarily be the right decision to sack him now.
Sacking and finding a replacement would certainly involve Ashwoth and Berrada, neither have officially even started work yet.
He is also very good at it ie deflecting blame and pretending there’s some grand plan that will eventually fall into place. It’s actually the thing he’s best at.
OK maybe I misinterpreted what you meant, but it reads as though you're saying he's not concerned by results or what's happened all season, just the next few weeks?
You think the review is just sitting Ten Hag down and asking him what went wrong?
It goes without saying an audit would be speaking to all sides to establish what the relationship is, where the blame lies, what went wrong in conditioning or implementation etc.
Did you read my posts? Go back and read what I said, because I clearly mentioned the discussions with players and his staff, along with the issue with that approach.
Being aware of how the club has operated for the past 10 years
No - I think his review is irrespective of results. You know the results, I know the results. We have posters saying theyve seen enough to know Ten Hag isn't the guy.
That might well be true - but then he's not the guy in a long list of managers who have failed, of different ilks. This manager was the one most people were confident would work out, and he nosedived massively in a matter of a season. Diving into the why is important. Was the medical staff disfunctional? Are his tactics in training a problem? Or is it an execution issue? Is his desired open style as unstainable as it shows on match days or is there more to it?
They might find some things that makes Ten Hag look good, some that makes him look bad. They may find he's been dealt a bad hand but just doesnt fit stylistically and still sack him. They might say nah he's got a ton of stuff that no one knows about and deserves a third season. No one knows - but they're qualified to know and I'm fine with that.
There's no issue with that approach. If he finds that there is a great chemistry between him and the players and the staff then its worth noting. If they find that some medical staff for example, expressed concerns with his style on the player's fitness and it was ignored, then that will be a big red mark against him. It's important to know the details, especially for good order when looking at the next coach and how they may fit in with the staff.
That's all well and good, but it's what happens on the pitch that matters. Like I said, I'm sure even Ole had a great relationship with the players, an even better one with the fans and he, Carrick and McKenna probably put on good training sessions. But it's the gameplan, the tactics, inspiring players, results and performances where these managers clearly fall short. It's quite feasible that we win the next 3, as we should, but what does that prove? It would be ridiculous to ignore the mistakes he has already made to land us in this predicament.
Maguire is not in the best performers at CB that is clearly Martinez.
McTominay isnt either
The best performers this season if you mean this season are Garnacho and Dalot
No one is ignoring anything. As I said - we all know the results.
What we don't know is whether the style he is looking to implement is something that has credence to it from the training methods, and whether the players aren't executing it well, or whether the medical staff are underperforming. Who the feck knows - its worth finding out one way or another.
It's not just the results though is it, because we should be even lower in the table than we are. The performances are also crucial.
Iget what you're saying but how do they find out any of that though? By talking to him, his staff and his players. I'd be shocked if more than 4 players (Casemiro, maybe Garnacho, maybe Rashford and maybe Varane) had anything even slightly negative to say, given they're predominantly his players. He'll tell them he wants to play 'x' type of football, but he's flexible to meet their needs, and there you have it, a new contract for a failing manager.
The medical staff may be shit, but we still had better players available than 90% of the teams we struggled with. It's a good excuse for not competing for the league, but to put up some of the displays we have, negative goal difference, struggling against practically everyone... it's no longer a mitigating factor.
@pocco got spooked real good by that audit report.
How do they find that out though? They talk to him, his staff who are going to be loyal to him, or the players.
Id suggest they watch the early Wolves game and then the recent Fulham, Bournemouth, and Brentford games and that will tell them everything they need to know. The same issues all season. Any half decent manager corrects the issues by now if they're not carrying out his instructions. But we know this is by design, as he's confirmed it himself when he says he's not concerned by the number of shots we face, or that he feels we played well/dominated even when the rest of us think we've been crap.
It's clear to anyone what the issues are. Hopefully this is just a formality, or is buying time after the pressure to sack after yesterday.
@pocco got spooked real good by that audit report.
I'm dreading the thought of another season of this guy
Are you not concerned though by how he's being given a clean slate, for all intents and purposes, now? Perhaps I'm just being naive and it's just bollocks to get them to the end of the season when they actually want to sack him. But the article gives me enough doubt when it says they basically can't identify a replacement.
Unfortunately for everyone wanting him gone, he is going to be replaced with Potter. So be careful what you wish for.
I would have other choices before Potter but if my choice is Ten Hag or Potter then I'd piggy back Potter to Manchester.
Yeah exactly my worry. He could say he's trying to play like fecking Pep and how are they to know any different. He'll pull out every excuse or circumstance in the book to cast with doubt.
This is the guy that's tried to gaslight us all for months into thinking we're doing well and on the verge of greatness. The guy is an egomaniac or seriously deluded.
The reason it’s felt like one of our worst ever seasons is because it absolutely has been. He just cannot get another season, if nothing else he clearly can’t get his tactics to fit the current crop of players.
How far away are we from CL football being mathematically impossible? Can’t be too much longer with how few games are left?
I'm dreading the thought of another season of this guy
Are you not concerned though by how he's being given a clean slate, for all intents and purposes, now? Perhaps I'm just being naive and it's just bollocks to get them to the end of the season when they actually want to sack him. But the article gives me enough doubt when it says they basically can't identify a replacement.
No, it's a win-win for me. I don't trust him anymore but I'm curious to see what kind of hell he can offer while smugly telling us that he doesn't care about people opinions because he clearly sees his plan working like a charm.
There is an air of mysticism about him. The Ajax aura genuinely gave a lot of people this belief that there was something sensible bubbling behind the madness. I think he’s too far in the tooth now though. If he pulls this out he’s the Teflon Don
It's the worst football we have played in my lifetime.
Van Gaal was pretty dire at times but mostly just incredibly boring. We are now incredibly boring in attack and laughably open out of possession.
Depends if 5th get CL. If not then Villa need 1 win I think.
Erik Ten Lives.
I don’t know how far back xG goes but I’d be staggered if we’d ever been anywhere close to 16th before.
You think we've hired people who are stupid enough to fall for obvious bullshit? They aren't going to be fooled into believing nonsense. If Ten Hag has any hope of saving his job the best thing he could do is take ownership of his mistakes and provide solutions, not brag about how great he is
If we were creating chances and playing good football I’d give him more time. This season we aren’t playing well, can’t retain possession, can’t defend, can’t score enough goals, can’t retain a lead against weaker opposition (2+ lead against Newport, Coventry, Copenhagen and Galatasaray).
I know he needs help with transfers but with full reign his targets have been a total waste of money. Mount and Martinez cost the club over £100m and haven’t played due to injury. Antony was a crazy amount of money even if he was a top player. Many said the signing of Casemiro at £70m at his age was insane, we got one good season out of him. Hojlund hasn’t shown enough for his price tag.
He’s got to 3 cup finals in 2 years. That’s about the only positive you can have with Ten Hag. It’s about time we focus on improving in the league and see cup competitions as a bonus. Every season we try to fight on all fronts hindering our chances in the league, and it’s clear we don’t have the squad to compete for even 2 trophies, let alone 4. Look at the team selection Klopp makes for Europa and FA/League cup for example.
I know he needs help with transfers but with full reign his targets have been a total waste of money. Mount and Martinez cost the club over £100m and haven’t played due to injury. Antony was a crazy amount of money even if he was a top player. Many said the signing of Casemiro at £70m at his age was insane, we got one good season out of him. Hojlund hasn’t shown enough for his price tag.
He’s got to 3 cup finals in 2 years. That’s about the only positive you can have with Ten Hag. It’s about time we focus on improving in the league and see cup competitions as a bonus. Every season we try to fight on all fronts hindering our chances in the league, and it’s clear we don’t have the squad to compete for even 2 trophies, let alone 4. Look at the team selection Klopp makes for Europa and FA/League cup for example.
It might be the worst post-SAF season in terms of quality of football, as it’s been consistently bad through the entire season. That opening game to Wolves was really worrying (to the point even the media picked up on how bad it was) and we hoped that it was the offest of off days imaginable, but it was a foreshadowing of what was to come.
I could count the number of games where I would deem us to have had a comfortable win with the opposition nullified on one hand.
I could count the number of games where I would deem us to have had a comfortable win with the opposition nullified on one hand.
A man who's had a horrible hand related injury could probably do the same.
Everton home and away, West Ham at home. Only 3 league games we've won by more than a goal I believe.
It would be better to keep ETH for another season, instead of paying his contract out to sack him and replacing him with a sideways replacement, then seeing if someone better is available next season.
Pointless replacing a manager out of his depth for another manager out of his depth, that failed miserably in his last stint with a big club, and has not even had another job since.
So your worry is that people more qualified than anyone in the caf do a deep dive and find there are problems at the club that has given the manager a bad hand, and that would give him another season? Hypothetically speaking, of course?I'm dreading the thought of another season of this guy
Are you not concerned though by how he's being given a clean slate, for all intents and purposes, now? Perhaps I'm just being naive and it's just bollocks to get them to the end of the season when they actually want to sack him. But the article gives me enough doubt when it says they basically can't identify a replacement.
It's now apparent you have an unhealthy irrational dislike of him.
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