I rarely watched them... I acknowledge it existed in a way, but I can't remember it being this big.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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It wasn't this big because the defensive line and pressing was better, the setup of the midfield though was the same
Where did he say this? I heard him say the players dropped off/took their foot off the gas, but how would Roy Keane even know if it was their instructions or not? Considering Onana’s lack of urgency and the subs made, I’d hazard a guess the manager thought the game was won
The implication behind “doing their own thing” - just feels like another exercise in attempting to excuse inadequate management - either by poor instructions or by failing to command his players
The weird thing was it was blamed almost entirely on Ronaldo who was obviously a factor there's no denying, but i'll always remember one match where Ronaldo was pressing from the front and chasing the goalkeeper who passed it to his fullbacks and Ronaldo looked around and saw the wingers were miles away from pressuring the fullbacks, and his look was almost like 'well that was a complete waste of my fecking time' . The players just could not follow Ralf's instructions.
Regardless if EtH stays or goes, if you're going to play this crazy system or get a manager like Klopp who likes this high intensity pressing then a lot of these players just won't cut it. Although that also begs the question of what system a lot of these players would actually be good in and what manager could get the best out of them.
So you see that aspect of the setup the same I do, thanks
Yeah you are definitely right about that,wish they would announce now he's leaving after final but know full well that's not going to happen
Yea, that's fair. When Ole was going well it was a very basic deep defence and counter attacking approach. He even says that the problems started to arise for him when he wanted to move to a more progressive and sustainable way of playing and the players just couldn't adjust for whatever reason.
The squad has a mix of different playing styles, however the most prominent players are suited to counter attacking football
So you see that aspect of the setup the same I do, thanks
The pressing scheme is the difference. The attackers were wider and often more in a diamond. So less space in all directions and less ground to cover between them and the midfielders.
Yeah agree with this. Although I wouldn't say it doesn't work I just don't think the squad is compatible with it
Coventry changed their tactics, stopped allowing us to have the ball and attacked us. And as we've shown all season we can't defend or stop the opposition sauntering through our midfield and peppering our goal regardless of the oppsoition.
If Coventry had started like that they'd have probably won the game.
Coventry changed the tactics at half time. We still controlled the game, after Bruno scored it was perfectly visible that some players decided it was party time on the pitch.
Which is fine, we need to start expecting managers not to be here longer than afew years going into the future.
How long do managers last at other clubs when they're under performing?
We have a long term structure in place now. We should be able to replace the manager every year if we want to and be absolutely fine.
It’s pretty simple. Every game we are winning, he takes off the younger, fitter, faster work horses and brings/leaves on the pitch the older, slower, lazier players.
He keeps doing it and we keep conceding late goals. He does the same thing over and over and yet expects a different outcome.
I’ve had enough.
He keeps doing it and we keep conceding late goals. He does the same thing over and over and yet expects a different outcome.
I’ve had enough.
Who have done nothing so far
Indeed why should the manager attempt to rest teenagers with another game coming up in a few days?
Which has happened hasn't it?
He said we need 10 new players, we actually have more than that at this stage.
Whether what he is trying to do is more complicated or not they both have the same basic problem, it’s not going to be good enough to compete at the top of the table. He has to go for the same reason Ole had to go it’s not just the results it’s that what he is trying to do is enough. You can throw more time and more money at it but it won’t be enough.
To be honest the same applied to LVG, Moyes and Jose. Post SAF we’ve never attempted or recruited for a brand of football that can compete with the best it’s been pragmatism, caution, counter attacking and whatever this is now.
Yeah completely agree but many think people staying years is the norm after Fergie
No it has not look at the players who have played the majority of minutes this season they were mainly all here under Rangnick.
Also we didn't sign 10 new players plenty of the signings were loans and stop gaps
Which is a massive problem.
Not if you setup to play counter attacking Football.
How’s it working out for you?
They went more attacking yes, but they didn't really go for it until our 3rd. You can say some players didn't concentrate enough and you are probably right. But we've been shit at defending all season, so our tactics, setup and complete inability to stop the opposition getting through our midfield and attacking our goal at will can't be discounted as a massive part of why we lost a 3 goal lead yesterday.
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some try to blame it all on players but his in game management is damning, all these collapses under him are very similar to how he was unable to manage the game against spurs in the ucl when ajax collapsed under pressure, we have never collapsed so consistently under any of the other woeful post fergie manager
You can't win that way. You just can't. The best teams are the ones who value possession and control. You can pinch the odd lucky smash and grab with counter attacking football, but playing entirely on the break just isn't conducive to long term sustained success.
Don’t really get the anger about him not being sacked asap. He’ll be gone in the summer, we still have back room staff to start work, it’s time for some patience. If there was a manager on the market we needed to lock up asap then it’d make sense to sack him now, but there isn’t. The league season can’t be saved and we have one big game left. In a month’s time, club football will be over until next season, so nothing needs happening in this moment.
Well even if you discount the loans he's signed 8 senior players. Onana, Martinez, Malacia, Mount, Casemiro, Eriksen, Hojlund, Antony, add in Mainoo and Garnacho and I think it's 16+ senior players have left since Ralfs time as well. So it's a much changed squad than Ralf managed.
A lot of players have played minutes this season because of injuries, Ideally Martinez, Malacia, Casemiro, Mount etc would have played much more.
There's still seven games left, to at least attempt to go into next season with any kind of momentum. I don't get the mentality that we should be dragged through the mud even more so, just because he's inevitably gone in the summer. Is that really our standards as a football club, to be embarrassed in every fixture until the end of the season.
It is when the club has said we shoudn't
I'm not going to count Mainoo who is a teenager and missed a lot of the season due to injury anyway.
But yes that means significant minutes for his signings this season is really Onana, and Hojlund + Garnacho who was promoted. So 3 players? Antony turned out to be a flop (this can happen) and Casemiro missed half the season. Its actually not a lot of work we have done. Infact worse as you pointed out we let a lot of senior players leave, some on a free (which we should have) without adequate replacements (this is a problem)
Its not surprising though given how the club operates
I missed that.
You did, happened with ETH appointment the apparent clear instruction to play attacking football. Along with the fake DOF and fake recruitment structure etc etc all the PR nonsense the club usually puts out with its appointments.
Happened prior to Ole too.
Counter attacking Football isn't defensive Football or not attacking Football. Dortmund under Klopp, his first teams with Liverpool or Real Madrid under Mourinho were teams focused on creating chances through counter attacks and neither were defensive.
You can be pedantic all you like, you know what I am saying, also the players which we have are not suited to playing a counter pressing style they are suited to a low block defensive approach and counter attack
Its the implementation of an aggressive press and less defensive approach that the club has been struggling with since Ole and ETH was only successful when he abandoned it last season
I just don't like that sort of football especially when your team is of comparable strength or better than your opponent.
I actually prefer how Arteta plays, not the extreme of Pep but not cowardly either.
We’ve just hired Wilcox, we have Ashworth and Berrada on gardening leave waiting to join. I’d say that’s some pretty major structural changes compared to what we’ve had before.
Again that is the structure and the structure have done nothing so far, its not a criticism its just to highlight 2 things.
1. We do not know how they will perform
2. They are going to need significant time for their ideas to come to fruition.
It is if you’re not playing to their strengths and mostly to their weaknesses
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