Did not know that, thanks for the info.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
- Status
I think that you are missing the point. Managers aren't perfect, their decision making aren't flawless, they aren't always rational and in general there are levels to it. The manager of a League One team is able to handle tactics, team selection, motivation and everything else but he isn't able to do all of these things at the same standards than an elite manager.
Now a context that is more relevant than the gap between CL contenders and the average League One manager is for example an above average manager that is clearly not at an elite level like Pochettino compared to SAF, if you are a team like United and find yourself in a situation where your best option is someone like Pochettino then the only way you could bridge part of the gap between his level of performances and SAF's will be by constantly evaluating his day to day job and provide constant feedback and stipulations which is not something that you have to do when you are dealing with an elite manager because their abilities are at the required level whether it is technical or mental.
How hands on and authoritative you need to be depends entirely on the abilities of the manager in question. Most managers that aren't elite will need to be told to fix issues by someone else, most elite managers will try to fix or adjust things before they even become an issue. It's one of the things that separate the elite from the average.
The injuries are an exuse. ten Hag and his staff have contributed to them. They're either overtraining or not apllying the correct recovery methods between games. Rest also.
Other managers are gulity of this as well. Eddie Howe will also have to take blame for a lot of Newcastle's injuries this season. If Joe Cole, who wouldn't be the most insightful pundit, can point this out during a Newcastle game where they suffered multiple muscle injuries, then you know it's not rocket science. He corrected the two commentators.
It's not just a case of "bad luck" with every injury. A lot of muscle injuries are manageable with better training methods and recovery methods + rest.
Lisandro Martínez's runs of injuries has been the only genuine bad luck.
Other managers are gulity of this as well. Eddie Howe will also have to take blame for a lot of Newcastle's injuries this season. If Joe Cole, who wouldn't be the most insightful pundit, can point this out during a Newcastle game where they suffered multiple muscle injuries, then you know it's not rocket science. He corrected the two commentators.
It's not just a case of "bad luck" with every injury. A lot of muscle injuries are manageable with better training methods and recovery methods + rest.
Lisandro Martínez's runs of injuries has been the only genuine bad luck.
Even if the structure is fully up and running next season, there's a limit to what it can do within the first year.
A big part of the help its supposed to give a manager is handing him the right signings to play the sort of football expected, but I don't know how much we'll be able to do it within one summer with several new people at the helm.
So does that mean we'll have to give ETH a 4th year in order to judge him well?
A big part of the help its supposed to give a manager is handing him the right signings to play the sort of football expected, but I don't know how much we'll be able to do it within one summer with several new people at the helm.
So does that mean we'll have to give ETH a 4th year in order to judge him well?
Papers saying Zidane would be open to joining us. Great news if true.
To me it would make more sense to not even give him a third season. Personally I would go for either a promising manager or a stable veteran. The promising manager even in a transition year can show good things while a stable veteran can give you time to organize things calmly. What I wouldn't do is stick with someone that I distrust.
He can rightly point to the injuries when discussing why we aren’t challenging for third, and why we didn’t have a decent champions league run. But he hasn’t done anywhere near enough with the players at his disposal, twelve league defeats, a minus goal difference and thirteen points off fourth is absolutely diabolical. The matches and overall game management I’ve seen at OT this season, even including those against Liverpool, have been inept and woeful.
Not exonerating the players completely here, including their clear lack of footballing intelligence, but he should go if we are to make it back to elite performance levels, and I think Ineos made that decision in January.
Not exonerating the players completely here, including their clear lack of footballing intelligence, but he should go if we are to make it back to elite performance levels, and I think Ineos made that decision in January.
Is it? Think he’d fail in England to be fair. And he’d be expected to have some sort of style which Ratcliffe as made clear. Zidane doesn’t have a style. He seems like the type to come into a club and demand respect though, but respect will only get you so far.
You could look at there previous clubs though and say did Martinez always get injured at Ajax under ETH training? Or how many other players were injured for them. Did Bournemouth get a ton of injuries under Howe? I highly doubt the managers are using different training methods at new clubs.
He can't. There's no excuse for only winning 1 CL game out of 6 in a group with Copenhagen and Galatasaray.
We were a last minute Larsson penalty away from not winning any games in the group. Big yikes.
Martínez averaged 24.6 Eredivisie games a season during his 3 years there. They play 34 league games a season. So he was rotated/rested.
He missed a few games during the 21/22 season due to inury. There's also a winter break in most other European leagues. 2.5 weeks off in The Netherlands.
Howe had never managed in Europe before this season. The extra midweek games had an affect. He didn't make enough subs in some games. They were dead on their feet in Paris, desperately trying to hold on to a 1-0 lead. Howe didn't bring on any fresh legs. They had a weak bench, but he still wouldn't even risk bringing on a youngster for some enegry.
Newcastle are one of the most intense pressing teams around. It has contributed to lots of their muscle injuries. Howe will need to learn from this season.
It depends. The problem with a comparison between Ajax and United under ETH will be that the type of training and conditioning that you will do is heavily influenced by the tactical approach, teams that play a heavy possession style will have less long distance sprints during games and tactical sessions, compared to teams that have a style focused on transition Football and verticality. The same is true for teams that focus on a high press and teams that focus on containment schemes, the former will require more short sprints and quick changes of directions, if you don't train and rest accordingly you will provoke muscle injuries.
And it's not rare for managers to switch from one approach to the other during their careers which requires a revamping of your preseason and in-season physical training/scheduling.
Absolute fair point and don’t disagree with you, just trying to give him a little leeway given it was the earlier part of the season. But you’re right, using it as an excuse in a group of that stature is stretching it for sure!
He's quite obviously not being retained. There's more to a manager's job than just "having the potential to be a good coach". Strategically it doesn't make sense to retain him.
Wilcox and Ashworth will be taking on a lot of the responsibilities that he has had in his role as manager in the new structure. We've already seen demands for veto, assurances and outsized influence. It will take years for them to rebuild the culture, get the routines and systems in place, and develop a new work-flow. It's a very extensive process that requires people who work well together and can put aside their egos for the sake of the club. To burden this process with a head coach like Ten Hag, who hasn't even performed that well in the job, has a massive ego and doesn't have a stellar track record of working with others at the club as it is, is folly. That's before you look at his actual ability as a manager, leader, head coach or his much touted "potential". They'll bring in someone who has a more transformational leadership style.
Not seeing anything from UK papers let alone tier 1 sources like Ornstein,Whitwell or Ducker. Therefore unless that happens I will taking any other information with a huge pinch of salt
Fed up hearing of excuses and blaming injuries.
Everyone has had them this year. It’s clearly got a lot to do with how we manage players in training.
Everyone has had them this year. It’s clearly got a lot to do with how we manage players in training.
It's not Ten Hag's fault his team are leaking stuff. We need a proper structure in place before he's responsible for his actions
Is it really in game management or just tactics as a whole.
Either we start well and flounder, or flounder and have to finish well to get a result.
zidane isnt doing a rebuild.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2015
- Messages
- 18,548
- Supports
️
Oh absolutely, I get frustrated when my views get mischaracterised so it’s refreshing to see someone like yourself understand that I’m also on that road too unless there are certain changes.
Im not happy with lots of things but I find it really hard to lay full blame (or at least enough blame) on Ten Hag as the root cause of the issues leading us to this position. He’s far from perfect but there’s also a logic to the underperformance.
I think they system we currently play is a compromise between having a largely available front line vs defence.
I was watching the Bastian S. interview today and he lamented how certain managers have a set style and they die by it (Pep, Klopp) whereas other managers adapt to the players they have and build a style around them (Heyckness (spelling?), Ancelotti) and how he prefers the latter because there’s a greater leeway to change things up during games and with players available
I do wonder that maybe Zidane belongs to the latter and I don’t mind that.
That's been a running theme with every manager post-Fergie. The only manager we had that had rivals worrying was Jose. But, that worry didn't last long.
He’s right you know.
On the brink of third final in three years despite everything going against him. Boss.
On the brink of third final in three years despite everything going against him. Boss.
I dont see a difference in losing to City in two finals to losing to City in two semi finals like Ole did.
That's absolute BS from that guy and I hope people are calling him out for it. LvG offered to resign midway through his second season because he was worried he couldn't take the team any further and then was treated like crap by the club a few hours after the FA Cup final. Moyes was a catastrophe but it's hard to say how he didn't care for the club- he was just inept.
I know Ole is a legend but it's just... weird how he's being remembered as a manager. I also seem to remember him saying the Glazers 'loved the club' and all that.
Like only having 400m to spend instead of 800?
Great setup today, total control and domination.
They don't really press us, wonder why their manager went for deep defence.
They don't really press us, wonder why their manager went for deep defence.
Yep, for the most part they've played somewhat in to our hands but that was a much more controlled and confident first half than I expected.
Solid.
If he does use the same training methods and schemes as at Ajax, then that's exactly the problem. The different schedule in England means that there is a different strain on the players, so you have to balance your training differently to ensure that the players do get enough rest. Not adjusting training while playing more tough matches would be a straightforward explanation for the amount of injuries.
It is true Ole’s achievements are overlooked, but we will beat City this time.
What I can't understand is why he wasn't willing to tolerate Ronaldo, but he is literally on the verge of losing his job because of Rashford.
I think Ronaldo wanted out by that point whereas Rashford is content making his money. I'd say Ten Hag's penchant for playing Antony when fit costs him as much as others he routinely selects, possibly more so.
Can someone find the stat on how many times we have conceeded after EtH had taken of Garnacho? When you take such an outlet off, the opposition feel they can push up.
Stubborn prick.
Stubborn prick.
Sack him on the spot.
Are you not entertained?!
His head is up Rashford’s arse.
Ronaldo was unprofessional too often. He had broken strikes and thought he was above discipline from pre season.
That being said, Rashford has been well shite.
31% utterly delusional.
- Status