Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Plant0x84]

The harm is, we could give him 20 new players and he still persists with this notion of playing without a midfield

Sir Jim is already on record as saying that the club will define the style of play. It will be the CEO, the dof and the manager who will decide what the United style is, and that’s how the team will expect to play. There have been reports that ETH is happy to accept less responsibility and effectively become a ‘head coach’ rather than manager, so if he doesn’t deliver the required playing style then that is a clear barometer by which he can be judged and sacked.
This season from the get-go our performances have been poor, and our results not much better. I get that entirely. We have been a terrible watch this campaign. And yet, up until the last intl break we were still mathematically in with a shout of top 4/5. The season has been so muddled by injuries, off field antics, club issues and the ownership process that there isn’t a clear marker by which to judge. You just have to write it off and start over next time. If it’s more of the same he goes, if it’s better entertaining winning football then he gets a new deal. By then the hierarchy will be in and up to speed, we’ll have a clear understanding of where we are, where we are going and how we want to get there, and hopefully a stronger fitter squad.

 

[stevoc]

Any club can hire the wrong manager , a badly run club can hire a good one

Correct and even a good setup can hire a bad coach. So if a coach is struggling under a good set-up then they're not the right guy for the job. But even under a bad set-up if a coach is struggling this badly then the same conclusion can be drawn.

None of Moyes, Van Gaal, Jose or Ole have proven their sackings a mistake.

 

[golden_blunder]

Sir Jim is already on record as saying that the club will define the style of play. It will be the CEO, the dof and the manager who will decide what the United style is, and that’s how the team will expect to play. There have been reports that ETH is happy to accept less responsibility and effectively become a ‘head coach’ rather than manager, so if he doesn’t deliver the required playing style then that is a clear barometer by which he can be judged and sacked.
This season from the get-go our performances have been poor, and our results not much better. I get that entirely. We have been a terrible watch this campaign. And yet, up until the last intl break we were still mathematically in with a shout of top 4/5. The season has been so muddled by injuries, off field antics, club issues and the ownership process that there isn’t a clear marker by which to judge. You just have to write it off and start over next time. If it’s more of the same he goes, if it’s better entertaining winning football then he gets a new deal. By then the hierarchy will be in and up to speed, we’ll have a clear understanding of where we are, where we are going and how we want to get there, and hopefully a stronger fitter squad.

You’re an ETH plant aren’t you plant?

 

[JPRouve]

That whatever INEOs decide on him (sack/keep) is an informed decision that suits whatever their long term strategy entails

Who said anything contrary to that and does that mean that everyone has to believe that it's going to be good for the club? An informed decision isn't necessarily the correct decision and I don't assume that any Football club ever take uninformed decisions.

INEOS will have their opinion and I will have mine, I don't need to be validated by INEOS and I don't feel the need to follow the company line of a company I'm not employed by.

 

[Ubik]

It'll be awkward for him if the new guys say we have to play like Ajax.

 

[The Hilton]

The poll is an easy yes for me, I think there's a top manager in there, and for me there are enough good signs for him to earn another year, and the downsides are partially mitigated by the shambles that the club has been in general.

I'm actually less opposed to him leaving than before, as at least now we have a footballing structure that will hopefully have a decent idea as to how we want to play football, with multiple managers shortlisted who could fit the bill, and we'll be set up to support them. It'll be disappointing though, and I expect that if we do let ETH go he'll go on to success, probably before we're successful.

 

[stevoc]

I really hate Woodward and the glazers , good look to INEOs fixing the mess they’ve made of things. I’d worry for whoever is next manager as I’m not sure things won’t get worse before better. In saying that , if United keep losing it mightn’t feel so bad…

Not sure I follow?

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Who said anything contrary to that and does that mean that everyone has to believe that it's going to be good for the club? An informed decision isn't necessarily the correct decision and I don't assume that any Football club ever take uninformed decisions.

INEOS will have their opinion and I will have mine, I don't need to be validated by INEOS and I don't feel the need to follow the company line of a company I'm not employed by.

I don’t need to be validated by INEOs because i I have the humility to accept I’m not sure what way they plan to restructure and if replacing him is a priority.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Not sure I follow?

I think next season could be tough regardless of manager. My point was if we finish really poorly it might make it easier for a new manager if our expectations are even lower

 

[JPRouve]

I don’t need to be validated by INEOs because i I have the humility to accept I’m not sure what way they plan to restructure and if replacing him is a priority.

Who is sure about what they plan to do? And how is that relevant with regard to whether ETH's performances this season means that he deserves to be sacked?

You seem to be confusing two things, me thinking that he deserves to be sacked doesn't mean that I believe that INEOS will sack him. I made that point earlier in the thread but I could easily see INEOS keep him because they want to evaluate the squad and understand the type of head coach that they need but that's not an endorsement of ETH or suggesting as you did that he doesn't deserve to be sacked.

 

[Judas]

It's ironic you say that when a lot of EtH cultists keep referring to the Arteta example who took 3 years to get much, much further away from a league title.

Rodgers also beat Chelsea to a FA cup and as much as I dislike and don't rate him, he's miles clear of Pep junior.

Is there anything more grating and immature than this sort of shite? We're all Utd fans, with different opinions, stop trying to create division with childish crap.

I want him gone, but I cringe at the posters like you who resort to name calling like this.

 

[VP89]

It's ironic you say that when a lot of EtH cultists keep referring to the Arteta example who took 3 years to get much, much further away from a league title.

Rodgers also beat Chelsea to a FA cup and as much as I dislike and don't rate him, he's miles clear of Pep junior.

ETH cultists is a childish jibe. The point being made is actually that you often need more than just a couple seasons to suss out a manager, and that's case in point of both Rogers and Arteta who directed their club in opposite manners post that period of time.

 

[Superden]

The poll is an easy yes for me, I think there's a top manager in there, and for me there are enough good signs for him to earn another year, and the downsides are partially mitigated by the shambles that the club has been in general.

I'm actually less opposed to him leaving than before, as at least now we have a footballing structure that will hopefully have a decent idea as to how we want to play football, with multiple managers shortlisted who could fit the bill, and we'll be set up to support them. It'll be disappointing though, and I expect that if we do let ETH go he'll go on to success, probably before we're successful.

A top manager wouldn't have persisted all bloody season with a utterly flawed midfield setup and a gameplay that allows you to concede 20plus shots a game regardless of the opposition.

 

[VP89]

A top manager wouldn't have persisted all bloody season with a utterly flawed midfield setup and a gameplay that allows you to concede 20plus shots a game regardless of the opposition.

I dont think the optimal execution of his system would concede 20 shots per game.

 

[RedSky]

We could hit 20 defeats this season and people want him for next season? I'm honestly speechless.

 

[RedSky]

At this point I think you guys just enjoy us being utterly fecking dreadful.

 

[Judas]

We could hit 20 defeats this season and people want him for next season? I'm honestly speechless.

All based on hopes that he can for some reason get his "vision" across next season. People who say certain elements of our fanbases standards are just hilariously low are proved more and more right by the day.

I actually don't mind the bloke, I'd have loved him to turn it around, but he doesn't deserve another roll of the dice, we're not a charity, he's simply not shown enough and it's more or less blind faith to think he's got it in him to make it work here.

 

[Bastian]

We could hit 20 defeats this season and people want him for next season? I'm honestly speechless.

I think there are a lot of people in the "wait and see" crowd, as we have so many other components too. Like the whole sporting organisation. How serious are INEOS about the squad building (I'm hoping Ratcliffe's age will mean it is more urgent). And what managers are actually available.

If Luis Enrique was primed to take over, or someone of that level, I suspect there'd be fewer of us on the fence.

 

[RedSky]

I think there are a lot of people in the "wait and see" crowd, as we have so many other components too. Like the whole sporting organisation. How serious are INEOS about the squad building (I'm hoping Ratcliffe's age will mean it is more urgent). And what managers are actually available.

If Luis Enrique was primed to take over, or someone of that level, I suspect there'd be fewer of us on the fence.

That's just such a poor argument though. The wait and see crowd will just mean that next season is wasted and we get to "enjoy" watching United be a fecking mess until he's finally sacked.

This isn't a wave the magic wand and suddenly everything works scenario. It's been 13 months of shite form. All we'd be doing is flogging a dead horse and we wouldn't have learnt any lessons from previous years where we've lingered too long with a Manager in a downward spiral. Just the same pondering, useless United that have seen our standards fall so far that we'd be willing to back a Manager that can lose 20 times in a season. It's utterly bizarre how far we've fallen as a club.

 

[Bastian]

That's just such a poor argument though. The wait and see crowd will just mean that next season is wasted and we get to "enjoy" watching United be a fecking mess until he's finally sacked.

This isn't a wave the magic wand and suddenly everything works scenario. It's been 13 months of shite form. All we'd be doing is flogging a dead horse and we wouldn't have learnt any lessons from previous years where we've lingered too long with a Manager in a downward spiral. Just the same pondering, useless United that have seen our standards fall so far that we'd be willing to back a Manager that can lose 20 times in a season. It's utterly bizarre how far we've fallen as a club.

Nah, I don't think it is a replication of anything that's gone on before. I agree that the season has been an utter shit show and that ETH has definitely not helped himself. I do however see loads of contributing factors that have derailed this season. We've seen that ETH is not some magician who can tailor his tactics extremely well according to the available players or even within matches. So I am not thinking he's some SAF in-waiting. Of course it matters what sort of manager is appointed next (or head coach rather). I'd rather keep ETH for another season (and see the squad gutted and every bad influence within it purged) rather than appointing a Southgate. And it would be a long-term approach. It's not like ETH will get a big say on squad building in the summer anyway.

If Ratcliffe and co. settle on a progressive promising manager it would be interesting, but there are also names bandied about that I feel would just delay progress even further than seeing Erik finish out his contract (and possibly turn the tide).

I think there are a lot of people in the ETH out crowd guilty of making him out to be infinitely worse than he is (and I acknowledge, again, this season has been terrible).

 

[Irwin99]

I'm 99% leaning towards no in this topic but a cup final victory against Chelsea or City would mean trophies in two consecutive seasons. If we beat Coventry and Chelsea beat City i fancy us to win it to be honest. Even if that happened though I wouldn't be surprised if the club do the same to him as they did to LvG.

 

[In Rainbows]

I dont think the optimal execution of his system would concede 20 shots per game.

But what is his ideal system? That's one of the main reasons why I dislike his managing this season. That it's what he's currently dishing out this season considering he refuses to adjust (not necessarily a bad thing in a vacuum), or it's something that he has yet to really show any conviction towards.

That's a huge step in building that trust.

 

[Cerberus]

At this point I think you guys just enjoy us being utterly fecking dreadful.

Maybe they feel guilty of the success of Sir Alex's era and want 30 years of atonement?

 

[RedSky]

Nah, I don't think it is a replication of anything that's gone on before. I agree that the season has been an utter shit show and that ETH has definitely not helped himself. I do however see loads of contributing factors that have derailed this season. We've seen that ETH is not some magician who can tailor his tactics extremely well according to the available players or even within matches. So I am not thinking he's some SAF in-waiting. Of course it matters what sort of manager is appointed next (or head coach rather). I'd rather keep ETH for another season (and see the squad gutted and every bad influence within it purged) rather than appointing a Southgate. And it would be a long-term approach. It's not like ETH will get a big say on squad building in the summer anyway.

If Ratcliffe and co. settle on a progressive promising manager it would be interesting, but there are also names bandied about that I feel would just delay progress even further than seeing Erik finish out his contract (and possibly turn the tide).

I think there are a lot of people in the ETH out crowd guilty of making him out to be infinitely worse than he is (and I acknowledge, again, this season has been terrible).

It's not been just this season. How many times does this need to be pointed out. It's been almost 14 months of abysmal form.

Jesus the excuses this guy gets is maddening.

 

[peridigm]

At this point I think you guys just enjoy us being utterly fecking dreadful.

Misery loves company.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

The poll is an easy yes for me, I think there's a top manager in there, and for me there are enough good signs for him to earn another year, and the downsides are partially mitigated by the shambles that the club has been in general.

I'm actually less opposed to him leaving than before, as at least now we have a footballing structure that will hopefully have a decent idea as to how we want to play football, with multiple managers shortlisted who could fit the bill, and we'll be set up to support them. It'll be disappointing though, and I expect that if we do let ETH go he'll go on to success, probably before we're successful.

What on earth are the good signs you're seeing?

Is it the terrible results or the even worse performances?

 

[TsuWave]

Im confident they are assessing everything and if ETH is replaced as part of their long term plans then so be it. If he’s kept on I don’t imagine you will be as magnanimous.

Are you operating under the impression that INEOS are infallible?

 

[pocco]

We could hit 20 defeats this season and people want him for next season? I'm honestly speechless.

It's intriguing how some can still defend the guy. There's got to be opposition fans here on the wind up. Even if you thought there was a half decent coach in there somewhere, A) alarm bells have got to be ringing now. He doesn't have the CV to deserve unwavering trust as he's never shown it in a top league (one half decent CL run means nothing in the grand scheme of things), and B) you'd still surely think that there's other good coaches out there who could at least navigate difficulties better. That's what wins you leagues.

So how any United supporter, in their right mind, can just ask for more of this is beyond me. There simply has to be a "but" to go with any reasons you want him to stay. And even your reasons for keeping him are not on unstable grounds as there is nothing to really point to apart from "what if's".

 

[hobbers]

The season has been so muddled by injuries, off field antics, club issues and the ownership process that there isn’t a clear marker by which to judge. You just have to write it off and start over next time. If it’s more of the same he goes, if it’s better entertaining winning football then he gets a new deal. By then the hierarchy will be in and up to speed, we’ll have a clear understanding of where we are, where we are going and how we want to get there, and hopefully a stronger fitter squad.

Thankfully even the Glazers ran the club better than this nonsense. At least they had the sense to sack anyone who didnt hit top four. Nevermind 20 defeats and negative goal difference at the end of the season.

 

[Rightnr]

Is there anything more grating and immature than this sort of shite? We're all Utd fans, with different opinions, stop trying to create division with childish crap.

I want him gone, but I cringe at the posters like you who resort to name calling like this.

Nothing grating about it. The very definition of the word is someone who is devoted to another and a lot of the people supporting this 'manager' would do so in the face of overwhelming evidence.

All of us being United fans doesn't mean some of the people on here are not utterly deluded and failing to see the forest for the trees. Happened with OGS and it's even worse now, as this guy is presiding over terrible football with no signs of improving.

Keeping him another season is just going to mean we'll have to write off another one in November. I have no time of the people who are too blind to see that and if their emotions are hurt over it, tough luck.

 

[sparx99]

Thankfully even the Glazers ran the club better than this nonsense. At least they had the sense to sack anyone who didnt hit top four. Nevermind 20 defeats and negative goal difference at the end of the season.

There is an argument that the Glazers approach has always been half hearted. We’ve never really stuck to a manager through a prolonged dip. Given Mourinho and LVG’s careers it’s possible they could have come through the other side.

I have been a big advocate for ETH and have never wanted to knee-jerk sack managers. At the same time it’s hard to have any faith in ETH given the flaws in the way we currently play.

Still, I find myself frankly confused as to whether we need to commit to going fully through the process with ETH to see if one more season under new management can allow for progress. Or if we need to cut ties and start again all over again.

Ultimately, I’d probably go into next season with a really short leash unless there was an available candidate this summer.

 

[Blood Mage]

The goal difference is the single damning stat that should seal his fate, it's embarrassing.

 

[hobbers]

There is an argument that the Glazers approach has always been half hearted. We’ve never really stuck to a manager through a prolonged dip. Given Mourinho and LVG’s careers it’s possible they could have come through the other side.

I have been a big advocate for ETH and have never wanted to knee-jerk sack managers. At the same time it’s hard to have any faith in ETH given the flaws in the way we currently play.

Still, I find myself frankly confused as to whether we need to commit to going fully through the process with ETH to see if one more season under new management can allow for progress. Or if we need to cut ties and start again all over again.

Ultimately, I’d probably go into next season with a really short leash unless there was an available candidate this summer.

Mourinho and LVG's careers were completely washed up. Same as Ole and Moyes, they all achieved nothing after United.

There is absolutely no point giving ETH another chance on a short leash. A mere sniff of a bad result, let alone the sort of shit we've seen this season, and the fangs will be out from the media, from the players, from the board, from the fans. And then the media and pundits will have the time of their lives (rightfully) railing on the new board for giving a lame duck another shot. It'll provide a perfect narrative for how United replaced their current overseers with people just as cretinous.

The only way to even keep ETH next season would be to give a big public statement of backing and a contract extension. And probably kicking out players who are most sceptical of him.

 

[spwd]

How can you fairly judge a manager at a badly run club ?




Well run clubs don’t need great managers all the time. This is the position I come from on this discussion. If we are well run we don’t need “the next big thing”.

This badly run club is the same one that appointed the cretin in the dugout. Or is it like when we win it's Erik's genius showing through the shite players, shite club, shite tea lady, shite toilet roll not soft enough, shite wind blowing the wrong direction etc but when we're shit (which is 99% of the time) it's the players and nothing to do with the manager.

 

[git_united]

Nothing grating about it. The very definition of the word is someone who is devoted to another and a lot of the people supporting this 'manager' would do so in the face of overwhelming evidence.

All of us being United fans doesn't mean some of the people on here are not utterly deluded and failing to see the forest for the trees. Happened with OGS and it's even worse now, as this guy is presiding over terrible football with no signs of improving.

Keeping him another season is just going to mean we'll have to write off another one in November. I have no time of the people who are too blind to see that and if their emotions are hurt over it, tough luck.

Nah, it’s definitely grating.

 

[spwd]

Because said badly ran club hired him?

Exactly

Because the club spent nearly half a billion on the players he wanted?

The club was wrong to give him that veto but he wouldn't have joined if he didn't get it so you can't really blame the "Structure" for that and then buying half a billion of shit players he wanted. I can't comprehend how these nutters are still supporting and making so many excuses for him. He's fecking clueless.

Any club can hire the wrong manager , a badly run club can hire a good one

We certainly did hire the wrong managers and this one is the worst of the lot.

 

[Kellyiom]

You have some weird fantasies dude

As I read that, tears welled in my eyes thinking of Morrisey's sorrowful voice on I Know It's Over!

 

[MadDogg]

No, we don’t! We can break the rinse and repeat cycle of a new manager, new playing style, new squad every 2 years and actually build something coherent and successful. It just needs a bit of resolve and bravery.
Look at the pay off Arsenal have made for their faith in Arteta when the fans wanted him out. It’s time we tried something different, instead of blindly sacking the manager everytime we hit adversity.

You have to have the right manager to do that. And the most important part of that is showing a steady (even if slow) improvement as time goes on. The exact opposite of what is happening under ETH. It's why this tendency to compare ETH with Arteta and Klopp is ridiculous, as they both showed that slow improvement over time and never went significantly backwards.

The last couple of months have been an incredibly bad sign. We've had one game a week for most of that time so plenty of time to train, and our injuries have decreased so we've generally been able to line up with 8 or 9 of our strongest 11 most games (admittedly the couple that have been out have often been significantly down the pecking order). Not only has there been no signs of improvement in that time, a strong argument could be made that we've actually been getting worse. Out of all the bad seasons we've had since Fergie retired, this has arguably been our worst. Our midfield is ridiculously open, our control of games is the worst it's been in PL history, our attack shows no signs whatsoever of any kind of combinations or interplay, our goal difference is literally in the negative, we're regularly getting embarrassed on the field by teams with smaller squads and more injuries than we have, and we're actually quite lucky to be as high on the table as we are.

Giving a manager who isn't good enough more time isn't showing resolve or bravery. It shows stupidity and incompetence, and does nothing but waste more time, waste more money, and make it harder for the next manager to turn things around. If ETH isn't good enough (and the signs are very bad in that regard) then it's ridiculous to give him more time just because some other manager was given time and turned his team into a success.

 

[Kellyiom]

This has to be the most damning stat in relation to his ability to take this squad forward.

Yes, I'm afraid that really is looking bleak, for this late in the season. Our performances have really looked more like that of a team in the lower half or trying to keep out of the relegation zone.

As it happens I do think Onana will make a good keeper for us, he just had a nightmare start.

It's been annoying me for a while now as well how often we've bought a player and all of a sudden their legs have gone or they've lost their mobility or endurance.

Like what is this club doing to them in the space of a season? Is it lack of rotation? Are they not getting focused training for recovery or conditioning?

 

[Juice Juiced]

Should have been go long time ago. We are in bad form since that Liverpool game.

I would be worried if INEOS decide to keep him, but at least I would know to lower my expectations.