Don't think he is overrated, he was when he joined but not know, Shaw is just a solid PL left back, injury prone, that's it.
Look at us now without him.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Don't think he is overrated, he was when he joined but not know, Shaw is just a solid PL left back, injury prone, that's it.
Look at us now without him.
World Cup Van Gaal and MU Van Gaal are completely different. The Dutch national team could not be successful with traditional Dutch possession footy, so Van Gaal changed the strategy to 532 counter attacking football.
It worked, but the limitations of the team became clear against Argentina, where we created very little.
We are lacking ‚control‘ right now, but LvG possession style football failed here and would fail again with this group of players.
BTW he would have loved Bruno; he is a brilliant player that he would have made use of. Van Gaal was not married to one strategy.
Sorry if someone already posted this, but here is a video of Andreas Pereira explaining the difference between playing vs Manchester United this season compared to last season. He is basically saying that this season at the game vs Fulham at Old Trafford he had a lot of space and it was easy for him to play but last season at the cup game when we played vs Fulham it was a lot different because he was chased down by everyone on the pitch and he didn't have much space.
https://www.tiktok.com/@ballerscontroversy/video/7358488661056326945?_r=1&_t=8lbSXIrid66
https://www.tiktok.com/@ballerscontroversy/video/7358488661056326945?_r=1&_t=8lbSXIrid66
I lost interest around this part. It's all conjecture on your part to fit your narrative. He didn't have enough time to implement his style on Netherlands, ok then. 2 years is not enough. The players just winged it. No matter how many years earlier it was (5) he had other teams playing that way previously. You must be incredibly bored to once again try to split hairs and take a simple point off on wild tangents. And yes he does despise wastefulness, that's what I said. You said he despised risk, which is something different. Taking risks in the right area of the pitch is something different from wastefulness.
My only claim about LVG, where you jumped in? 'he got his basic principles down, and we dominated some good teams in terms of person [possession]. It was just boring to watch.' Wow, such an outlandish claim. You don't need to tell me how bad he was because I was probably saying that on here before you. The only other thing I said is that he may have liked Bruno or even helped him to be a more rounded player, as he did with many of our other players in terms of possession. You're trying to talk in absolutes as if you are sat next to LVG right now asking his opinion. Like I said, I don't care for your opinion as much as you do so stop boring me with these stupid claims that you can't possibly prove.
Hmm,
4-2-3-1
Dea Gea
Young (2 goals)
Smalling (4 goals)
Evens (young version)
Shaw
Carrick
Herrera (8 goals)
Valencia
Rooney (12 goals)
Di Maria (rat)
RVP (10 goals)
Bench;
Mata
Welbeck (people actually want him back?)
Blind
Falcao
Kagawa
Roja
Fallaini
If I was ETH id save myself and resign. You’re not telling me a manager that can win 6 out of 6 in the UCL group stage with Ajax and knock out juventus and dominate Madrid at the bernabeu is a bad manager. I’ve seen him furious on the touchline, I’ve seen him telling players to press press and press yet they didn’t. He’s told players not to go long but Fernandes and Casemiro still do. The players aren’t following instructions so until he can sell them the next manager won’t be any better… if they aren’t going to follow instructions then they won’t for anyone. We need players with good attitude.
It feels like so many players are playing for themselves. I dont really see a team and it does not help to insist with out of form players all the time
Valverde led Athletic Bilbao to their first major trophy in 40 years just two weeks ago. He's alright.
Good effort at trying to polish a turdTrue but I was talking about this current season wich everyone sees as a big disapointment. The results you talk about are from the season before wich everyone considers a succes.
At the moment our last and only 2 (for PL season 23 24) loss bigger than 2 goals difference was vs Bournemouth december 9 2023 (0-3), and 3 -0 vs City october 29 2023.
The game vs Bournemouth was also the last game we didn't score at home. Since, we put 29 goals in the net.
And despite our leacky defence, we still have less goals against than Newcastle (52 vs 48 for us), West Ham (58) and Chelsea (52). Spurs in 5th, also has worse against goals stats (49) as does Villa in 4th (49).
The play might not be what you like, and P7 reallly is not good but the stats (and I mean the current table stats) also reveal resultswise it isnt really really bad. Draconian bad. Sack tomorrow bad. INEOS will not be blind for that when they do their evaluation at the end of the season. At the moment, I don't think ETH has anything to fear from them. The coming fixtures might, as always with this club, paint a different picture and we will bicker after every game. As usual.In good spirits I hope. I still am.
I jumped in here:
With this post:
You then took it on some tangent by pretending that him being sacked by Bayern five years previously was somehow an indicator of how well he'd do for us, or that his stint with the Dutch national side was remotely similar to his coaching with us.
As M16Red has just highlighted above, it's not even true that van Gaal was hampered by bad recruitment or a poor squad. I also noted that you phrased it "the signings we got him" when talking about van Gaal, when a cursory search of your posts in this thread has Ten Hag making the signings now.
I want Ten Hag gone, but it's transparently obvious that your defense and lauding of van Gaal is just a poor attempt at bashing Ten Hag further with weird comparisons to a manager who was objectively well past his prime (at least at club level) by the time we hired him.
You should know by now that domestic cups are meaningless to half the posters in here.
On paper they look like good names, no question. But if you think back to that time, many of the better names there were actually a big part of the problem, or more so our inability to move them on/replace them. Rooney, RVP, Young, Carrick were all past it.. We sign shite like Schneiderlin and more past it players like Schweinsteiger to replace Carrick. We signed past it/broken players like Falcao to try to fill the gap up front. Di Maria should never have been signed and he was a better player than he showed here, but thankfully he only stuck around for a season.
There's a difference between Bilbao and United, particularly in terms of resources and transfer funds. Even quality of players.
Yeah, we'd probably kill to have some of their players.
Took him three tries and over 2 decades. About fecking time.
If we’re going to be honest, the problem isn’t just manager. The players and owners are a problem as well. But that’s not news to anyone here, but if there is no better option this summer — and it’s clear as can be that neither Southgate nor Potter would be an upgrade on ten Hag. Where we need to go this summer is squad rebuilding first by selling our marquee name who downed his tools all season.
But if there is a top manager out there, let’s pull the trigger on ten Hag.
But if there is a top manager out there, let’s pull the trigger on ten Hag.
They'd probably kill to have all of our players. Which of their players would you want?
Truthfully, I was joking and haven't really seen anything of them.
However, Simon seems a decent keeper and I've heard ravings about the Williams brothers
Rooney was 30, RVP was 32 and Carrick was 34.
Young played last week for Villa.
Think Carrick at 34 would keep Casemiro out of this side - his passing, Herrera 100% would.
Agreed.
Point out to me where I said that LVG getting sacked by Bayern was an indicator of how well he would do for us? fecking hell you come out with some daft stuff.
Of course coaching a national team is the same as coaching a club, if we are talking specifically about the coaching aspect and the tactics. And this is the specific thing I was referring to - his style of play etc, nothing else. I mentioned that he may have appreciated Bruno for his ability to create. You said he'd hate him (even though this is the manager that wanted us to sign Neymar!). Another poster disagreed with you etc etc. You get less time with the players in an international setting, but he was with Netherlands for two years prior to the world cup. Yet apparently 'didn't have time to implement his style'...how convenient
Ok they weren't always dominant in possession, but I said perhaps he wasn't married to that idea and that maybe he did allow risk (why would he want Neymar or even Di Maria if he didn't want risk?). And I gave the example of him playing this football with a better outcome just 5 years prior. Though apparently 5 years is too long in football to be able to transfer a style of play. Well, Fergie did it for 27 years. Why didn't he forget what he was doing after 5 years? How has Pep transferred his style to multiple teams over 10+ years?Fair enough if you hate LVG, he was a twat in my opinion and his football here was shit. But I just recognise why it was shit and that a maverick like Bruno with the ability to create may have been good for his team. I don't think it would have been particularly enjoyable to watch still, but probably more effective. Bruno is, afterall, the brains of the operation now under ETH.
M16 is wrong because the recruitment was poor. I responded to him for why I thought that. Look at the list of players signed under him and tell me it was good recruitment...
And yes, I did mention the 'signings we got him' because it was well documented how the process worked. He claimed he gave many options for each position, and the club came back always with the last option or, mostly, somebody else completely who was picked by Woodward or whoever. He wasn't involved with the process beyond identifying initial targets. But I think he was clearly expecting to, say, get his first choice in 'x' amount of positions and perhaps compromise in others. ETH, again it's been well documented, asked for control in transfers. There's the difference. The early period under Woodward was by far the worst for recruitment.
I'm not defending or lauding LVG. I made an observation that Bruno may have been good in his team for his ability to create, and said that it was possible he could have made him a more rounded player as he did with players we already had. By this I clearly meant in terms of their ability to keep possession, something we struggle with even to this day. But, mainly, my initial point was that I think this team is better than what LVG had (I've explained why in my response to M16) and that I can't decide if I disliked the period under LVG or ETH/Ole most. They've all been terrible. But at least I could say we had some element of control under LVG, as painful as it was to watch.
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They were beyond their best, that was pretty much agreed at the time. Carrick would get eaten alive in our midfield setup. Herrera would play, I agree. Though people would be calling for Mainoo to start for sure. Young playing for Villa is just crazy, I've watched him play for Villa and he is obviously nothing like what he once was. I think Dalot is a better fullback than Young, as is Shaw. Rooney was past his best and LVG tried moving him all over the pitch to try to fit him in, though it never worked. RVP played one season here under LVG where he was again past his best then left to join....Fenerbahce.
Don't think you remember LVG very well if you think this is the case. He zapped all creative instinct out the team and forced them to play safe passes all the time.
I couldn't think of a player more ill suited to LVG Than Bruno.
Miss the good old days where shot on Target in first half was cheered and celebrated
I think we went so many games without a goal in first half too, Lingard finally broke that with goal from outside the box.
Point out to me where I said that LVG getting sacked by Bayern was an indicator of how well he would do for us? fecking hell you come out with some daft stuff.
Of course coaching a national team is the same as coaching a club, if we are talking specifically about the coaching aspect and the tactics. And this is the specific thing I was referring to - his style of play etc, nothing else. I mentioned that he may have appreciated Bruno for his ability to create. You said he'd hate him (even though this is the manager that wanted us to sign Neymar!). Another poster disagreed with you etc etc. You get less time with the players in an international setting, but he was with Netherlands for two years prior to the world cup. Yet apparently 'didn't have time to implement his style'...how convenient
Fair enough if you hate LVG, he was a twat in my opinion and his football here was shit. But I just recognise why it was shit and that a maverick like Bruno with the ability to create may have been good for his team. I don't think it would have been particularly enjoyable to watch still, but probably more effective. Bruno is, afterall, the brains of the operation now under ETH.
M16 is wrong because the recruitment was poor. I responded to him for why I thought that. Look at the list of players signed under him and tell me it was good recruitment...
And yes, I did mention the 'signings we got him' because it was well documented how the process worked. He claimed he gave many options for each position, and the club came back always with the last option or, mostly, somebody else completely who was picked by Woodward or whoever. He wasn't involved with the process beyond identifying initial targets. But I think he was clearly expecting to, say, get his first choice in 'x' amount of positions and perhaps compromise in others. ETH, again it's been well documented, asked for control in transfers. There's the difference. The early period under Woodward was by far the worst for recruitment.
I'm not defending or lauding LVG. I made an observation that Bruno may have been good in his team for his ability to create, and said that it was possible he could have made him a more rounded player as he did with players we already had. By this I clearly meant in terms of their ability to keep possession, something we struggle with even to this day. But, mainly, my initial point was that I think this team is better than what LVG had (I've explained why in my response to M16) and that I can't decide if I disliked the period under LVG or ETH/Ole most. They've all been terrible. But at least I could say we had some element of control under LVG, as painful as it was to watch. But we had a tight defence
I wasn't even speaking about recruitment, I was calling you out on fact that LVG couldn't even beat Leicester to the title and still lost 10 games with a good team
Then you said this years team is better and that team was old - which I think is bollocks, because I'd have a number of these (2014/15) players in this years team.
30 year old Rooney as Captain would be great and you throw in Herrera, maybe rewind Evens before we sold him for 7 million!
Oh, we're done with reminiscing about the Solskjaer years, and we're romanticizing the LvG era now. The rival forums must be having a field day. You know, you can just say that ETH sucks at his job and leave it at that.
Can we just have some fun and compared who sucks more than who?
My ranking in term of who suck most to least:
1. Ten Hag
2. LVG
3. Rangnick
4. Ole
5. Mourinho
6. Moyes
Moyes sucks least because he didn't spend much. Mourinho did win an European cup. The top 2 spent alot and their football made me want to vomit.
Ha I think I remember this. The sarcastic cheers was too muchMiss the good old days where shot on Target in first half was cheered and celebrated
I think we went so many games without a goal in first half too, Lingard finally broke that with goal from outside the box.
Good take rake.
I think he will end up staying for financial reasons and because they will want to see what he can do under the new structure and will be focusing on culling the squad. I don't think there's much expectations for next year no matter who is in charge.
Worth remembering LVG sabotaged the Kroos deal before you give him too much leeway
And Herrera and Shaw were excellent signings prior to Shaw getting injured.
And Herrera and Shaw were excellent signings prior to Shaw getting injured.
Glazernomics
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That and Moyes torpedoing Thiago whilst we've struggled to control a ball in the midfield for ten years is just pure nightmare fuel.
Lowest lows:
1. Hag (7-0, 20 defeats in a season, -ve goal difference in April, humiliated in easy CL group, confirmed fraud)
2. Ole (Butchered by Liverpool and City and Watford, everything going to shit after finishing 2nd and signing Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo, Europa league defeat due to shit game management)
3. Moyes (Back to back 3-0 defeats to City and Pool, 'we aspire to be like City', 700 crosses vs Fulham)
4. LVG (Bore off football all season)
5. Mourinho (Meltdown mode)
Highest highs:
1. Mourinho (Respect, 3 trophies, respect)
2. LVG (FA cup, actually dominating in some big games)
3. Ole (Periods of barnstorming football, finishing top 4 back to back seasons, 9-0 vs Southampton and other big scorelines, beating of Pep in the league)
4. Hag (Mickey mouse cup hoorah)
5. Moyes (existed)
1. Hag (7-0, 20 defeats in a season, -ve goal difference in April, humiliated in easy CL group, confirmed fraud)
2. Ole (Butchered by Liverpool and City and Watford, everything going to shit after finishing 2nd and signing Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo, Europa league defeat due to shit game management)
3. Moyes (Back to back 3-0 defeats to City and Pool, 'we aspire to be like City', 700 crosses vs Fulham)
4. LVG (Bore off football all season)
5. Mourinho (Meltdown mode)
Highest highs:
1. Mourinho (Respect, 3 trophies, respect)
2. LVG (FA cup, actually dominating in some big games)
3. Ole (Periods of barnstorming football, finishing top 4 back to back seasons, 9-0 vs Southampton and other big scorelines, beating of Pep in the league)
4. Hag (Mickey mouse cup hoorah)
5. Moyes (existed)
I would agree with the first two names on that list, but simply because the upper management allowed a situation that had reached the point of no return to simply continue and fester until the end of the season. It's like enduring the pain from an open wound but doing nothing to about it. Both Mourinho and Solskjaer were heading toward the same direction but were eventually spared from this suffering. I don't agree with how the club handled LvG's sacking, but i would be lying if i said i didn't celebrate the news of his dismissal as much as the Cup win that day. Imagine if we win the Cup and ETH gets the boot right after. Dutch coach, bad football with zero attacking threat, FA Cup. A confirmation that we're in a Hell-loop. Ralf didn't waste half a billion to get the team to play like that, so he gets a pass from me. I also agree that Moyes lasting only for a single season was the biggest positive of his tenure. It's like the day when you go to the office and find out the guy nobody believed could lead had got the big promotion. That feeling of "Oh, shite" while you ponder how you're going to get through until the next one comes in.
I don't agree with that. One flaw of his system and that's why we were bereft of creativity is that his system relies on somewhat specific player, I could easily see LVG turn Bruno into a Litmanen type of player, someone that is creative,, aggressive and between the number 10 and second striker role.
United under LVG were dull, there is no question about that but the reason is kind of sad. LVG drilled the team into doing exactly what he wanted in our own third and in the middle third and we dominated nearly everyone with relative ease. But he didn't have the profiles that he obsesses about for the final third which are a striker that plays as pivot and is constantly on the CBs, a wide player that is an aggressive dribbler/passer and an attacking midfielder with the ability to exploit the channels created by the positioning and quick passing of the striker.
If LVG was a bit more flexible or if we managed to identify those profiles, LVG would have had a long career at United because unlike every other managers that we had, he largely organized the team very well and in a way that was sustainable.
In hindsight I would be very curious to see LVG with Mané, Ibrahimovic and Mkhitaryan in 2016.
Sabotaging Thiago to sign Fellaini
Sabotaging Kroos to sign Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger
Seriously mate?
We've played the exact same way all season. Ten Hag himself says this is how he wants to play.
He probably is a decent manager but he's just not cut out for this job and he's failed. There's no shame in that.
Here we are comparing which manager sacked the least post fergie and yet we still get the response from our own fans and pundits alike that supposedly we have tried everything in terms of managers hired when reality they have either been out of depth to be a inited manager (ole, moyes ragnick, eth) or a past their best High profile manager, we have yet to have a proven manager in the top european leagues that is still on the up or at their peak like conte was when he joined Chelsea or klopp joining Liverpool or pep at City.
It's neck and neck between Moyes, Ralf and Erik this season for the worst.
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