Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Judas]

A FA Cup win doesn't save our season, and shouldn't save Ten Hag's job. It's been an awful season, and in the grand scheme of things winning that particular trophy really would mean very little. It's not a sign of progress or anything like that.

 

[Blood Mage]

It really has been one of those seasons that a manager shouldn't survive on principal, even if he has a shot of turning things around with some good signings in the summer. Heads need to roll for how utterly shite we've been.

 

[Monmouthshire Red]

The bookies have got Coventry at shorter odds to beat United than Chelsea are to beat City.

 

[Sarni]

Why he didn't push to sign Sabitzer is beyond me...

Preferred a familiar player that knows the system in Amrabat.

 

[NLunited]

Why he didn't push to sign Sabitzer is beyond me...

Wasn‘t good enough. Had more poor games than good ones. A bit like Donny.

 

[Cerberus]

It really has been one of those seasons that a manager shouldn't survive on principal, even if he has a shot of turning things around with some good signings in the summer. Heads need to roll for how utterly shite we've been.

Yep. It's why I never understood the "new structure" argument. The manager is a critical part of the aforementioned shite structure and it all needs to go. A lot of the players need to be replaced too but it's a much longer and more difficult process to replace them so that will understandably take a couple of windows.

 

[Judas]

Why he didn't push to sign Sabitzer is beyond me...

Bit of a rewriting of history due to recent events, did you want us to sign him at the end of last season? He was a massive disappointment, had a few good moments, but was injured most of the time and barely made an impression.

 

[soapythecat]

Watching attacking football tonight reminded me of why we must get rid of ETH. We will never play football like this under him. The odd 20 mins here and there just won’t cut it whilst he talks about a process that is more made up than the bible.

 

[spwd]

Huh?

So 4-0, 6-3 and 7-0 weren't big beatings?

Exactly. I pointed this out in one of his other posts spouting this nonsense.

 

[RuudTom83]

Watching attacking football tonight reminded me of why we must get rid of ETH. We will never play football like this under him. The odd 20 mins here and there just won’t cut it whilst he talks about a process that is more made up than the bible.

Watching Barca tonight made me think back to the Barca/United Europa tie last season.

Hard to recognise the United side now compared to some of the stuff they played over the 2 legs.

Not hating on EtH as much as you are, but the difference under the same manager is a mystery.

 

[spwd]

I’m sure Ashworth has an idea, I doubt he’s sat at home, locked in the basement without any contact with the outside world.

I would have thought he'd have already been able to get his decision across so feck knows why eth is still here.

City arnt through yet, to reach the final they have to beat Chelsea which is something they failed to do home or away in the Premier League this season.

You do realise we're not through either?

 

[miliebrowndivorceattorney]

So dogshit in just about every department this season but at least we haven't got batter 6/7-0. Fair enough.





I wouldn't ever want us to be as bad as it would need to be for you to think the manager needs sacking.

We differ on when that line is crossed but it seems to me you start thinking about sacking a manager when it's going very bad resultwise, and some very bad displays resulting in humiliating big number losses. Neither is the truth at the moment.

Having less against goals than 5 of the current top 8 clubs, with our defensive injuries Ten Hag should get a benefit of the doubt imo. It's a pretty good stat considering. Other way of putting it: it''s a positive wich balances the negatives somewhat. In the end, it's never a black and white story, is it? I'm confident INEOS and their new people look at it the same way as me: mixed. 23 24 is less than the year before but it does have plusses.

 

[RedRocket9908]

You do realise we're not through either?

I never said we were through I was just pointing out tbat City arnt

 

[stevoc]

We differ on when that line is crossed but it seems to me you start thinking about sacking a manager when it's going very bad resultwise, and some very bad displays resulting in humiliating big number losses. Neither is the truth at the moment.

Having less against goals than 5 of the current top 8 clubs, with our defensive injuries Ten Hag should get a benefit of the doubt imo. It's a pretty good stat considering. Other way of putting it: it''s a positive wich balances the negatives somewhat. In the end, it's never a black and white story, is it? I'm confident INEOS and their new people look at it the same way as me: mixed. 23 24 is less than the year before but it does have plusses.

You are making it too obvious mate.

 

[CtrlAltDeLigt]

Just have this feeling that if we sack ETH we will be repeating the process of signing and sacking a manager, until we build a squad that has decent characters with skill.

Don’t get me wrong I’m 100% on ETH not being the right man to win PL/ CL, but just hope we wait for a top manager and just don’t go with the media pressure here and get another ETH kind of guy. He’s bad this season yes, but has shown few glimpses on getting us into top 4.

Without the benefit of hindsight, ETH was more or less at the same level as the replacements being suggested like Southgate, de zerbi etc

My plan would be to keep him next season, get good signings in so we don’t give the eventual new manager a squad that is shite and overpaid, get us into top 4 and sack him when we’re on the up instead of the pit we’re in at this moment. Even Pep can’t salvage these players.

Need to really do this differently, what one more season after a decade worth of disappointment.

 

[CtrlAltDeLigt]

You are making it too obvious mate.

Bit of a rewriting of history due to recent events, did you want us to sign him at the end of last season? He was a massive disappointment, had a few good moments, but was injured most of the time and barely made an impression.

Remember the club being hyped up about Mainoo, so they didn’t want to get a guy in that is going to play the same position we have multiple players in. We needed a DM so instead we got Amrabat and we all know how that went.

But wouldn’t go that far by saying his time was unimpressive, he did show some glimpses and wasn’t all that bad as you’re making him out to be.

 

[Judas]

Remember the club being hyped up about Mainoo, so they didn’t want to get a guy in that is going to play the same position we have multiple players in. We needed a DM so instead we got Amrabat and we all know how that went.

But wouldn’t go that far by saying his time was unimpressive, he did show some glimpses and wasn’t all that bad as you’re making him out to be.

Literally said he had moments, you call it glimpses, there's no difference

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

If we'd generally had a good season, comfortably top 4, closer to a title challenge and a decent run in the CL then I'd say winning the FA Cup on top of that would be further evidence of progress being made. There'd be a sense of momentum building.

Winning the FA Cup this season, as great as it would be, would be proof of nothing. Nobody could argue progress has been made, if last season was one big step forward this has been 4 or 5 steps back. It's been an utter disaster of a season.

I don't see any way he's still manager here next season, whether we win the cup or not. I know it's new people running the club but LVG won the cup and missed out on the top 4 by GD and he was still deservedly sacked. We could be finishing 8th or 9th so ETH should have no chance.

 

[LInkash]

Just have this feeling that if we sack ETH we will be repeating the process of signing and sacking a manager, until we build a squad that has decent characters with skill.

Don’t get me wrong I’m 100% on ETH not being the right man to win PL/ CL, but just hope we wait for a top manager and just don’t go with the media pressure here and get another ETH kind of guy. He’s bad this season yes, but has shown few glimpses on getting us into top 4.

Without the benefit of hindsight, ETH was more or less at the same level as the replacements being suggested like Southgate, de zerbi etc

My plan would be to keep him next season, get good signings in so we don’t give the eventual new manager a squad that is shite and overpaid, get us into top 4 and sack him when we’re on the up instead of the pit we’re in at this moment. Even Pep can’t salvage these players.

Need to really do this differently, what one more season after a decade worth of disappointment.

So basically have him as interim manager for a year?

 

[stevoc]

Just have this feeling that if we sack ETH we will be repeating the process of signing and sacking a manager, until we build a squad that has decent characters with skill.

Don’t get me wrong I’m 100% on ETH not being the right man to win PL/ CL, but just hope we wait for a top manager and just don’t go with the media pressure here and get another ETH kind of guy. He’s bad this season yes, but has shown few glimpses on getting us into top 4.

Without the benefit of hindsight, ETH was more or less at the same level as the replacements being suggested like Southgate, de zerbi etc

My plan would be to keep him next season, get good signings in so we don’t give the eventual new manager a squad that is shite and overpaid, get us into top 4 and sack him when we’re on the up instead of the pit we’re in at this moment. Even Pep can’t salvage these players.

Need to really do this differently, what one more season after a decade worth of disappointment.

So let him stay despite failing when Moyes, LVG, Jose and Ole all got sacked for less, hope he does well next season then as a reward sack him then?

Which top manager should we wait on?

 

[CtrlAltDeLigt]

Literally said he had moments, you call it glimpses, there's no difference

Agreed, but still not that bad tbh, would

So basically have him as interim manager for a year?

Kind of yes, just because of the lack of options currently that can guarantee some success, our squad being horrible and him having some knowledge now he’s been here for 2 years.

Don’t want another ole situation if we hire someone new and they perform for a short term, they are permanent.

 

[Judas]

Ten Hag is not showing anywhere near enough improvement, or understanding of how to get the most out of these players for him to be given a sort of "interim" role for another year, the benefit of doing that is what exactly? Bloke doesn't honestly deserve it, and as a fan and someone who wants to be entertained, I simply don't want to see that.

Again, don't like Southgate, think he's average, but you might as well give him a year with this squad instead of Ten Hag getting another roll of the dice.

 

[miliebrowndivorceattorney]

So let him stay despite failing when Moyes, LVG, Jose and Ole all got sacked for less, hope he does well next season then as a reward sack him then?

Which top manager should we wait on?

You actually make a good point. LvG had better end results points (70 points season 14 15 and 66 points season 15 16) after 38 played respectively and position wise than ETH currently. Why give ETH more time?

If you look closer, you see why ETH wins at least in display, attacking and playing(!) vs LvG.

LvG had atrocious game tactics production in 15 16. He produced 13 1-0 wins (all competitions), 9 draws of wich 6 ended goalles, even against low teams.

ETH currently has 4 1 - 0 wins on 15 won, and 1 goalles draw vs LFC in 23 24. That is not just a little but much better stat.

LvGs end goal stat after 38 played for is 49 and we are now after 32 at 47, wich is still not great but the forementioned stats proof ETh has United play a lot, lot more agressive than LvG ever did.

LvG also didn't have as many injuries, and no rampant City whilst Rodgers LFC, the main rivals. Today the standards are much higher, broader, the organisation much more professional, hence INEOS focus on starting there.

I wouldn't necessarily give ETH a full more year - Moyes and Ole got sacked because of that other sackable offence: lose 3 games in a row and show very bad play, but I think it's up to ETH how he finishes this season with a bit more flair in play, good results against the next 3 and then INEOS will probably give it another go. And if they replace him, indeed, wait for the correct top manager available. That could mean waiting out another year whilst signing a pre contract or something. But you definitly have a point.

 

[pocco]

ETH has a considerably better side that LVG had. I hated the guy and his football, but having seen what ETH served up, I respect what he did a bit more. He actually coached us to be a solid possession team, with the likes of Smalling, Jones and DDG. He even used youth players that ended up being lower league level at best. Some probably never made it in the end. But at least he got his basic principles down, and we dominated some good teams in terms of person. It was just boring to watch.

Really, neither is a United coach in my eyes.

 

[Judas]

LVG with the current squad does a better job than Ten Hag, which is quite sad really, but I genuinely believe that. His football literally put me to sleep at times, yet I'd just trust him to make more of what we currently have.

 

[MadDogg]

Martial sulked and basically downed tools when Jose took the '9' off him and gave it to Zlatan.

He looked half-arsed when OGS was battling to save his job and he's been consistently lethargic / injured under EtH

That was Mourinho's first season, and ignores that there was a lot more than just taking the 9 off him. Martial was also being played in a new position and was having problems in his personal life (with the mother of his child breaking up with him and taking it very public). All happening at the age of 20. It's an extremely lazy narrative that all his issues that season were due to him sulking about losing the 9, when in reality it was probably the least impactful of what was going on. It didn't help and straight away showed that the manager didn't seem to value him that highly, but it was hardly the only thing going on.

In Mourinho's second season Martial fought his way into being first choice on the left (despite Mourinho obviously preferring other options) and was our best attacker. Then we bought in Sanchez and Mourinho instantly moved Martial to another new position (right wing, a position he has never ever played well in) and dropped him. Then in Mourinho's third season he once again didn't want to use Martial until he was at the point of being fired, at which time Martial came in and was instantly our best attacker again, keeping Mourinho in a job for a couple more months than he would have been. So to blame Martial for not fighting and playing his part in getting Mourinho fired when in reality he was the only one actually performing at the time (along with Pogba funnily enough, the two players that Mourinho had the most issues with while all his favourite 'soldiers' were unbelievably bad) is very unfair.

He's basically been physically broken since that 20/21 season where he played for months with an injury because Ole told him he needed to play. Maybe it's coincidence and even if he had got it sorted straight away he would have been constantly injured ever since, but I'd say there's a fair chance that it led to the torn knee ligament that season and he's never been the same since. He barely played in Ole's last sesaon.

So he fought his way back into Mourinho's team multiple times despite the manager not wanting him. He fought for Ole by playing for months while injured, a decision which potentially ended his career at the top level at the age of 24 due to being physically broken ever since. Due to those injuries he obviously hasn't been good enough since (although we have still regularly played our best football when he's in the team and he was better last season than people like to admit), but I really don't like this narrative of him being not up for the fight and downing tools when it gets hard, deliberately trying to get managers sacked.

 

[dabronxolivera]

Huh?

So 4-0, 6-3 and 7-0 weren't big beatings?

His defenders really pull out the "insomnia" and "change the fact" card to defend him. No beatings ?? If anything we got hammered left and right under him compared to our previous managers. The fact he survived 7-0 against Pool itself was a fecking farce. That 3 beating itself counted as 3 out of 10 worst beating post SAF era. This also doesnt count multiple 3-0/3-1 scorelines

 

[Giggsy13]

Because it’s Redcafe. It’s what the Caf does.

Yes the same cafe that is already complaining about INEOS. There is no interim that could turn it around in this short period of time. Season is done, get over it and have some patience FFS.

 

[croadyman]

Mate there's only 10-11 players left who played under Solskjaer 2 years ago. Even if for some inexplicable reason Ten Hag was kept on the only players that would likely leave are Martial, Sancho and Varane. I reckon Sancho and Martial will be leaving regardless of who the manager is and let's not forget with the new structure in place and a DOF it likely won't be the managers choice on his own who stays or goes anyway. I don't understand the concern.

Who are you worried will stay?

Rashford would be the one I am worried about staying because looks like he has lost interest. There is also concern Sancho will get another chance with a new manager. Having said that I still hope we make the change in summer just please not Southgate/Potter. I would take most other options on the table.

 

[roonster09]

This "player down tools, comes up with some master plan to get manager sack" is such a dumb take, it's laughable that people makes these points with such confidence.

 

[Ahmer Baig]

Bit of a rewriting of history due to recent events, did you want us to sign him at the end of last season? He was a massive disappointment, had a few good moments, but was injured most of the time and barely made an impression.

So just like most of his signings.

 

[Escobar]

He cannot adapt, and that is a huge issue for any manager with big ambitions

 

[DomesticTadpole]

ETH has a considerably better side that LVG had. I hated the guy and his football, but having seen what ETH served up, I respect what he did a bit more. He actually coached us to be a solid possession team, with the likes of Smalling, Jones and DDG. He even used youth players that ended up being lower league level at best. Some probably never made it in the end. But at least he got his basic principles down, and we dominated some good teams in terms of person. It was just boring to watch.

Really, neither is a United coach in my eyes.

Thing with LVG we never got the chance to see if once he got us used to keeping the ball he might have then felt it was safe for us to go more expansive. I just don't know where we are going with ETH.

 

[soapythecat]

The argument to keep him so to get rid of players that are no good is kind of lost now. We have/will have a new structure that will decide who we buy and sell. If it’s ETH next season or another, the players the club don’t want to keep will slowly be sold/released when there is interest. It’s going to be a long slow process regardless, so why do it with a manger who sets us up for failure every game?
He has to go because his method just isn’t god enough at this level and he’s proven this season neither is he. Going in to next season would be a write off - we could have the best CM pairing in world football and still get dictated by Wolves and Co at home.

 

[M16Red]

ETH has a considerably better side that LVG had. I hated the guy and his football, but having seen what ETH served up, I respect what he did a bit more. He actually coached us to be a solid possession team, with the likes of Smalling, Jones and DDG. He even used youth players that ended up being lower league level at best. Some probably never made it in the end. But at least he got his basic principles down, and we dominated some good teams in terms of person. It was just boring to watch.

Really, neither is a United coach in my eyes.

What a load of shite. 2015/16 Leicester won the league, we still lost 10 games.

That team also had some cracking players.

 

[stevoc]

You actually make a good point. LvG and Moyes had better end results points (66 and 70 after 38 played respectively)and position wise than ETH currently. Why give ETH more time?

If you look closer, you see why ETH wins at least in display, attacking and playing(!) vs for instance, LvG.

LvG had atrocious game tactics production. He produced 13 1-0 wins (all competitions), 9 draws of wich 6 ended goalles, even against low teams.

ETH currently has 4 1 - 0 wins on 15 won, and 1 goalles draw vs LFC in 23 24. That is not just a little but much better stat. (Moyes even better: just 2 1 - 0 wins all season the year before.)

LvGs end goal stat after 38 played for is 49 and we are now after 32 at 47, wich is still not great but the forementioned stats proof ETh has United play a lot, lot more agressive than LvG ever did.

LvG also didn't have as many injuries, and no rampant City whilst Rodgers LFC, the main rivals. Today the standards are much higher, broader, the organisation much more professional, hence INEOS focus on starting there.

I wouldn't necessarily give ETH a full more year - Moyes and Ole got sacked because of that other sackable offence: lose 3 games in a row and show very bad play, but I think it's up to ETH how he finishes this season with a bit more flair in play, good results against the next 3 and then INEOS will probably give it another go. And if they replace him, indeed, wait for the correct top manager available. That could mean waiting out another year whilst signing a pre contract or something. But you definitly have a point.

What you are saying is not ETH "wins in attacking" as our attacking play is for most of this season as boring to watch as we ever were under LVG. You are in fact pointing out that ETHs United are worse at defending. Much worse.

And I think without Onana having an underrated season we could be hovering above the relegation zone. Which would be deserved as by just about every metric we perform much like a recently promoted team struggling to stay up.

This is a negative for Ten Hag and one of the main reasons he should go.

 

[Rake]

I really do not think there is anything he can do save his job. I find the notion that in 5 games he can somehow negate the damage done in 42 unrealistic. Him staying will be due to the stars aligning in his favor.

His sacking/staying will be a complex decision based on finances, replacement availability, structural setup (INEOS reportedly want to wait for Ashworth to make any decision), and EtH himself willing to agree to the new terms of running the club.

The likeliest of scenarios is that he stays for one more year. This will allow INEOS time to focus on moving players, signing new ones without taking a financial hit from sacking EtH, while having ample time to prepare for 2025.

 

[stevoc]

Rashford would be the one I am worried about staying because looks like he has lost interest. There is also concern Sancho will get another chance with a new manager. Having said that I still hope we make the change in summer just please not Southgate/Potter. I would take most other options on the table.

Some observations I'd have is Rashford given his contract wages and length he won't be going anywhere so buckle in. Ten Hag would probably want to keep him anyway were it his decision and from here on out the manager hopefully won't be making those decisions on their own. So whether he stays or goes isn't dependant on who the manager is.

I have zero concerns about any players getting a chance under a new manager. Some players and managers just click. Just because Erik couldn't get the best out of a player doesnt mean another manager couldn't fare better. Look at Cantona and Ferguson. Circa 2024 most on here wouldn't want us signing a player with Eric's troubled past behaviours yet he was brilliant under SAF.

 

[stevoc]

His defenders really pull out the "insomnia" and "change the fact" card to defend him. No beatings ?? If anything we got hammered left and right under him compared to our previous managers. The fact he survived 7-0 against Pool itself was a fecking farce. That 3 beating itself counted as 3 out of 10 worst beating post SAF era. This also doesnt count multiple 3-0/3-1 scorelines

The the fact we haven't had a few bad hammerings this season must be down to luck and Onana actually being a great shot stopper. Because we play like a team just asking for a hammering just about every week.

 

[miliebrowndivorceattorney]

The the fact we haven't had a few bad hammerings this season must be down to luck and Onana actually being a great shot stopper. Because we play like a team just asking for a hammering just about every week.

His defenders really pull out the "insomnia" and "change the fact" card to defend him. No beatings ?? If anything we got hammered left and right under him compared to our previous managers. The fact he survived 7-0 against Pool itself was a fecking farce. That 3 beating itself counted as 3 out of 10 worst beating post SAF era. This also doesnt count multiple 3-0/3-1 scorelines

So any manager that gets one (1) big beating, he needs an immediate sack? That wouldn't leave any manager for very long at any club.

History learns PL managers usually get the sack when results are very bad, and usually after a 3 game run of losses. And down to luck or not, in the end the table result is what is remembered.

What you are saying is not ETH "wins in attacking" as our attacking play is for most of this season as boring to watch as we ever were under LVG. You are in fact pointing out that ETHs United are worse at defending. Much worse.

And I think without Onana having an underrated season we could be hovering above the relegation zone. Which would be deserved as by just about every metric we perform much like a recently promoted team struggling to stay up.

This is a negative for Ten Hag and one of the main reasons he should go.

Oh, but LvG had fantastic stats defensively. No question. Just 35 against goals after 38 played. Also the game control stats look so much more dominant. 'We want to play dominant football" LvG. A game vs giants Watford https://www.espn.co.uk/football/matchstats/_/gameId/422387 shows 61% possesion. Those guys at Athletic complaining we don't show those numbers of possesion probably still dream about LvG.

But LvG got sacked because we won those games with one nil. 9 games in the PL alone, winning just by one total goal vs the likes of Watford, Norwich, 2015 Villa. We hardly ever got near the box of the opposition. There was no penetration, no idea, no synergy. Compared to his previous season, that display looked bad. very bad. It didn't help that Mourinho - then the top 3, maybe to some the best in the world became available. On top of that this example Watford actually had more shots on target than us.

Like I said it's never a black and white story, but attackingwise, play if that is the number one complaint about ETH's United then we today look spring chippy fantastic vs that year of LvG ball.

(In his defence he claimed he did not get the payers he wanted but overall he had acces to Falcao, Van Persie, Rojo, Evans, Depay, Mata, Martial in his good days, Rooney, Carrick, Young, Herrera, Shaw, Rashford (gave him his debut), Valencia, Fellaini (made us get lots of long ball play accusations) Scheiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Mata and a very in form De Gea.)