Or the players failed him? I’m not saying he isn’t to blame for some of it but he isn’t fully responsible. And I’m saying aslong as players like Rashford are still here getting a free pass then the next manager will fail also. We need a complete rebuild and players with good attitude rather than bad attitude. That’s what Ashworth job will be…
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
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1. Ragnick
2. Moyes (given a bit of leeway considering he was on a hiding to nothing)
3. LVG (just boring)
4. ETH
5. Mou
6. Ole
ETH based on average of both seasons, this season in isolation would be number 1
This is perfect. We are allowing our opposition to have a lot of possession which encourages them to take low odds shots which hardly ever result in goals. We are basically tricking the other team into thinking they have a chance.
Pure delusion. Can’t tell if this is sarcastic trolling or not.
If you are even close to explaining why we are so horrible, it’s still Ten Hag’s responsibility to have the players buy in to his tactics.
So presumably, all of these players that don’t follow instructions… aren’t some of them World Cup and CL and league title winners? Aren’t they capped national team members? Casemiro never listened to his manager’s instructions yet somehow managed to rack up 3 league titles, 5 CL trophies in 338 appearances? Varane with the same number of titles and a World Cup trophy to boot? He was definitely not playing according to his manager’s instructions as he racked up 360 appearances for Real?
When Garnacho, Hojlund, Rashford and Bruno score, it’s clearly Ten Hag’s brilliant tactics. When they fail to deliver, they aren’t following the manager’s tactics? When the bulk of our squad go out and play for their national teams, they would also not follow the national team managers’ instructions, yet they keep racking up appearances?
When Ten Hag wins a trophy and manages 3rd last season, they players clearly listened and executed his tactics, so he gets credit. But, the poor performances and results this season are not his fault because his tactics aren’t being executed properly?
The bare minimum standard is top 4 at this club, as well it should be. To absolve Ten Hag of any blame for our disastrous season is not only mental, it’s not how the world works.
2 things, 1, Rashford's form doesn't explain this shitshow of a season. 2, who exactly is giving Rashford a free pass? Who keeps picking him?
FYI the manager and the players can both fail, they aren't mutually exclusive. After watching this farce of a season and our tactical ineptitude no one thinking logicaly could conclude ETH has did anything other than fail at his job here. He's seems a nice chap and a decent manager at a certain level. As I said there's no shame in failing at the top end of the game, but fail he has.
Exactly. Erik needs to at least see out his contract and finish the job. It’s clear he has the cohones to deal with the star names.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that LVG,Mourinho, Rangnick as all called the club toxic and Solskjær… mr nice guy said there was some leaks coming from the dressing room and there’s a bad ego in there and he said I think last year that the player was still there… that can only be Shaw, Martial or Rashford. ETH as failed this season… so did Klopp at Liverpool last season. Each season is different… every single manager we’ve had have all had to work under a poor structure. if ETH is still here next season and it’s a big IF I’m sure the owners and Ashworth will all be telling him what’s expected and how they want us to play. At the minute he’s got no one guiding him so is suicidal tactics that he keeps sticking to will be long gone. I’m pretty sure this is gonna be a ruthless summer window for us and they’ll be a lot of shocks and surprises. INEOS wont put up with this any longer and the players have to be shipped out who aren’t good enough to be at an elite team.
ETH comes across as likeable and seems to understand the 'values' of Utd (mainly off the pitch) but I'm tired of this football. By that I largely mean of the last 11 years. Reactive, inconsistent and mainly small time stuff from every manager.
If we win every single game and dominate opponents until the end of the season then fine, happy to give him another season. If we don't, then I honestly don't think there's much difference between staying 'loyal' with him or finding a replacement. The pro and cons don't really outweigh each other significantly for me. The truth is that ETH or the next manager won't get us challenging in the way a Guardiola/Klopp has, so I'd rather go all in on a manager, who stubbornly wants to play an offensive and dominating type of football in the mould of De Zerbi, Enrique, Nagelsmann, Amorin, Arteta or even what Postecoglou has shown.
Our recruiting has been daft and inconsistent but I don't believe for a second that we can't be dominating opponents 60-70% possession, out pressing and out sprinting them with the abundance of athletic and technical players we've had over the years and with a transfer window.
I'll be happy with De Zerbi, Amorin or Nagelsmann tbh this summer.
TLDR; any choice is a throw of the dice, I'll rather go for the shiny new toy and chose to believe again over having blind faith with ETH next season.
If we win every single game and dominate opponents until the end of the season then fine, happy to give him another season. If we don't, then I honestly don't think there's much difference between staying 'loyal' with him or finding a replacement. The pro and cons don't really outweigh each other significantly for me. The truth is that ETH or the next manager won't get us challenging in the way a Guardiola/Klopp has, so I'd rather go all in on a manager, who stubbornly wants to play an offensive and dominating type of football in the mould of De Zerbi, Enrique, Nagelsmann, Amorin, Arteta or even what Postecoglou has shown.
Our recruiting has been daft and inconsistent but I don't believe for a second that we can't be dominating opponents 60-70% possession, out pressing and out sprinting them with the abundance of athletic and technical players we've had over the years and with a transfer window.
I'll be happy with De Zerbi, Amorin or Nagelsmann tbh this summer.
TLDR; any choice is a throw of the dice, I'll rather go for the shiny new toy and chose to believe again over having blind faith with ETH next season.
Erik is the man.
So a 20 year old Shaw, a 20 year old Martial or a 17 year old Rashford was the mastermind behind Van Gaals downfall? And is an evil genius that has made it their lifes goal to sabotage the careers of every United manager over the last decade?
Do you know what else Van Gaal, Mourinho, Rangnick and Solskjaer all had in common? They all failed due to being either not good enough or past it.
Why the feck should he need someone to tell him that the suicidal way he's sets this team up to play is fecking stupid and not conducive to winning football games?
Me either. Lvg wouldn’t like his creative side / Hollywood passes etc. he’d either have to assimilate or he’d be moved on without question. But, changing Bruno? Well he wouldn’t be the same player anymore
I’d love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation. I bet ETH tries to double down and explain how it will all come together
Our expected goal difference is 16th in the league, which is a level of ineptitude I didn’t think was possible for any manager.
I remember just fine. He did appear to do that, but then again he didn't have a creative outlet to even know if he would give them a try. So I'm sort of playing devil's advocate a bit. He used creative midfielders previously, which was my point. Perhaps he would have tried Bruno, he certainly had nobody of his quality at his disposal. He also wanted us to sign Neymar, so if he couldn't put up with Bruno, why was he doing that? Neymar was the ultimate flair player of this generation, but very wasteful (it was worth it when he was in his prime).
I have to reiterate that I hated the LVG era, his football etc. Couldn't wait to see him gone and was against him coming in the first place (one of the few who said it was a bad idea, whilst the rest were getting all giddy). But I'm just making an observation, that is all.
I think Di Maria was a creative outlet for us and he didnt enjoy working under LVG whatsoever.
Why the feck should he need someone to tell him that the suicidal way he's sets this team up to play is fecking stupid and not conducive to winning football games?
Doesn't matter. We'll make up these stories anyway so that we can blame everyone except the manager.
We'll go from "how could they betray ETH by giving him a big say over transfers" to "how could they not point out to him his football's shite? Do they want the club to fail?"
I really do think we've been incredibly lucky to be 7th.
If you look at all our wins this season so many of them are undeserved.
You said he should be sacked recently. Most bipolar poster on here, can't stick to an opinion. Just like you flip flopped all over on the takeover stuff.
Should be sacked or would be sacked?
Yeah the same players he plays every week no matter what. His signings are the ones stinking the place of this season, he's been saved a relegation fight by our youngsters.
I was surprised to see DeZerbi’s team is currently on +2 GD compared to EtH’s -1 GD
Both managers would have loads of reasons to explain those numbers.
Chelsea before the 6-0 were on +3 GD
It’s why all 3 teams find themselves fighting for 6th-8th place.
Hasn't he had phases where he dropped Rashford, McTominay, Antony? Which ones does he persist with constantly? Just curious here. Garnacho I guess.
Fairly certain he's said both over the last month. Especially after some of our games.
Yeah you have to wonder which actual responsibilities some folk on here think the managers position comes with.
I think it's perfectly fine to be doubtful or on the fence. Changing views on the manager situation is normal.
Phases? Great stuff, that'll teach them not to mess with him. Rashford gives absolutely nothing every week and still plays. Bruno has some bad games and never leaves the pitch, let alone dropped. In fact, has he ever been subbed? I bet you can count on one hand how many games he's missed in two seasons. Onana was costing us game after game early on and he wouldn't even drop him for the League Cup ties. Last season, Weghorst was chronic and yet he played him at no 10 every week and shifted Bruno. I could go on. Rashford is the main one though. He sticks two fingers up at Ten Hag every week ETH his performances and he just comes back for more.
Yeah but based on what? We've barely won a game this last 2 months and suddenly he's 'the man'. It's just trolling at this stage.
No he didn't, because I think LVG pointed out his mistakes and he wasn't receptive to it. It something along those lines. To be fair I wouldn't either, he grated on me like ETH. But, as I mentored earlier, being wasteful and taking risks are two different things. I don't think it would have hurt Bruno to have somebody check him on some of the things he does, challenge him to keep the ball better and take measured risks.
Van Gaal classed doing things first-time as a "mistake". He'd make the players sit through boring video sessions where he'd do shit like call out successful dribbles as "mistakes" because there was an option to play a nice, safe, backwards pass.
Your commitment to this bit is absurd. "I hated van Gaal" he says, talking up van Gaal and making out he was extremely hard done by not being allowed to sign Neymar for an astronomical fee.
All to further compound the point that Ten Hag looks quite shit too.
No mention of poor Ten Hag not getting Min-Jae, de Jong and Kane though.
If the story is true, after a few months Di Maria criticized LVG, during a video session, for only criticizing the players during video sessions and never show them what they are doing well. Now I don't know how Di Maria expressed himself but it's a fair point, you can't just be negative, it gets old very quickly.
Rafael and I think Herrera have shared similar stories.
It wasn't just criticism either, but full on bollockings in front of the team.
I hope his reign lasts a thousand years.
Di Maria isn't really known for talking much, so I wouldn't be surprised if others felt the same. It's also not limited to United, LVG is largely considered as brilliant by his former players but they also often mention that he is annoying, he is a perfectionist and has very specific ideas.
This season has felt like a thousand years, so you'll be right in a way.
Stop talking crap. How the hell can you say LVG was let down by poor signings, yet this is all on EtH?
So he has dropped players, don't make things up and insinuate he hasn't.
Weird point on Weghorst, he got dropped too and wasn't a 10 for that long. He actually had some decent games in the 10.
Re Bruno I don't think there's anyone on the bench I'd actually prefer to him in the 10. This is one of those moaning for the sake of moaning posts it looks.
Based on the sentiment other managers in this current market may be just as big a risk? Or that Ten Hag had one season of success, one season of failure and for certain posters the jury may still be out? What's wrong with posters keeping an open mind about him?
So LVG didn't have a record at harnassing creative talent with us. Got it.
As I said, I don't think Bruno would suit LVG at all. I don't even think he'd play as a 10 in his system.
It took Ten Hag way too long to drop him. It was evident he was nowhere near up to it after his first few games for us yet it took after over 20 starts before dropping him. He played 1400 minutes for us in half a season, the equivalent to 15 and a half full 90 minute games. It stunk up the second half of last season.
But he did drop him, and Weghorst wasn't shite for all of those games. There were some games he was good in, and we had a good run of form with him around the side. It's such a weird gripe to have. The man has no striker.
What's a weird gripe? Criticising Ten Hag's persistence with arguably the worst striker the club's seen in recent times? It's very relevant to the argument. We had Garnacho on the bench over Weghorst for those 20+ starts, we could've played Rashford in the middle in the moments Martial was injured.
Doesn’t matter, this the internet
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