I'm inclined to agree. The character assassination would have started by now.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
- Status
Not enough manager search smoke. There was a little but i reckon there'd be more if there was fire.
100%, we’ve seen how it usually goes. I’ll give ten Hag credit in that he has taken out toxic personalities or kept them completely muzzled to avoid the typical leaks we’d get at this stage.
Anyone hoping or trying to read signs from Ineos are going to be disappointed. They hold all the cards right now. Even ETH is being kept in the dark.
meh ive seen enough of how he wants to set up his team that i dont want him back. Just dont think his ideas will work in this league. Smart club would bring in a new manager this summer, but honestly who knows what will happen
I ask how you explain our tactics, results and achievements last season. This is your reply:
This makes me think you have the fandom short term memory affliction.
Your explanations in total amounts to:
1. Smash and grab (in one game that we won 2-0, 10-2 in shots on target)
2. Other teams were worse. (17 out of 19 of them, plus 10-15 more or so in the cups)
3. First season bounce (what is that?)
4. Rashford scored goals (how?)
You ask why you have to explain last season’s performance. You don’t, and it seems you can’t either. When you have no recollection or understanding of how we achieved 3rd place last year (‘skin of our nutsack’ - four points ahead of Newcastle, eight ahead of Liverpool, four wins in last five games, 75pts would give 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd and 3rd place in the previous five seasons), or reached two finals and a QF out of three cups (‘shite in the cup knock outs’ - LC 6W 0D 0L 16-2 GD, FA 4W 1D 1L 13-6 GD, EL 3W 2D 1L 11-9 GD vs Barca, Betis and Sevilla) apart from the word ‘shite’, it is no wonder how it is a mystery to you how an improvement on that season would be feasible given better players. And before you retort something silly like ‘Utd aim higher than that’, that was clearly not the point of the post you answered with an eye-roll.
The point was that the 22/23 season is a much more likely reflection of what a normal season under Ten Hag will look like than 23/24, and it makes more sense to expect an improvement on that season than a continuation of this anomalous one (Injury crisis, messed up preseason planning, Sancho/Greenwood/Antony debaucle, club sales noise, top floor changes), if circumstances are similar or even better than it was in 22/23.
Barring the one caveat that I stated, if the players or the top floor staff lose faith in Ten Hag.
You might find this response snotty, but hopefully less snotty than your own.
This makes me think you have the fandom short term memory affliction.
Your explanations in total amounts to:
1. Smash and grab (in one game that we won 2-0, 10-2 in shots on target)
2. Other teams were worse. (17 out of 19 of them, plus 10-15 more or so in the cups)
3. First season bounce (what is that?)
4. Rashford scored goals (how?)
You ask why you have to explain last season’s performance. You don’t, and it seems you can’t either. When you have no recollection or understanding of how we achieved 3rd place last year (‘skin of our nutsack’ - four points ahead of Newcastle, eight ahead of Liverpool, four wins in last five games, 75pts would give 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd and 3rd place in the previous five seasons), or reached two finals and a QF out of three cups (‘shite in the cup knock outs’ - LC 6W 0D 0L 16-2 GD, FA 4W 1D 1L 13-6 GD, EL 3W 2D 1L 11-9 GD vs Barca, Betis and Sevilla) apart from the word ‘shite’, it is no wonder how it is a mystery to you how an improvement on that season would be feasible given better players. And before you retort something silly like ‘Utd aim higher than that’, that was clearly not the point of the post you answered with an eye-roll.
The point was that the 22/23 season is a much more likely reflection of what a normal season under Ten Hag will look like than 23/24, and it makes more sense to expect an improvement on that season than a continuation of this anomalous one (Injury crisis, messed up preseason planning, Sancho/Greenwood/Antony debaucle, club sales noise, top floor changes), if circumstances are similar or even better than it was in 22/23.
Barring the one caveat that I stated, if the players or the top floor staff lose faith in Ten Hag.
You might find this response snotty, but hopefully less snotty than your own.
Not from INEOS no but others wouldn't be able to keep their mouth shut if ETH was getting replaced.
Yeah you might well be right. I guess this squad just *feels* older than your average Utd squad, wouldn’t you agree? I mean, maybe it’s literally just me having a feeling which simply doesn’t match reality! It might just be that. And as you say, having older players in your squad is not the same as having older players in your actual first XI
Feels like they run a pretty tight ship. Most expected Murtough to stay with a role change before he was let go.
Murtough leaving is not the same as ETH in all fairness, a whole other level of media interest.
It can be both, it’s not one or the other.
Yes he’s had horrible injuries but so have other clubs.
yes the club has been a mess but there are controllable factors within his remit which have gone badly judging by performance and results - namely tactics, training
That was actually one of his conditions for taking the job, he wanted that responsibility.
It was well publicised at the time and is mentioned often on here.
Muppetiers hinting he's going to get sacked.
Who are the others and how would they know if Ineos are keeping their plans secret?
Agents
Doubt anyone knows anything but it's hardly a bold prediction.
Didn't say otherwise pal
Agents of whom? Players, managers?
Doubt they'd know either, I doubt United are talking to anyone yet even if they are leaning towards sacking Ten Hag.
I know mate, I'm talking about the muppetiers.
If United are contacting agents of managers to put the feelers out I'm sure they would know yes.
The second part, are you joking? You think they'd leave the decision this late?
It is, to some degree, his job to identify players (either specific players, or hypothetical players with a specific skill set) who will offer what he needs in order to progress the team towards his style of play. He surely needs to have a good eye for a player to be able to impart what he wants to the people identifying and bringing in the talent?
Can he do that? Seems his judgment on players is flawed.
Years ago managers watched players and usually decided who they wanted. I appreciate those days are gone given the data-driven nature of the game, but I suspect there are few elite managers who can't watch a player extensively and say either "yes, they fit my system", or "no they don't".
We overpaid for Antony but even at a third, or less, of that price he's not good enough. Ten Hag clearly overestimated him and/or underestimated the PL.
Nobody sensible is suggesting that replacing the manager fixes all the problems, but putting a new structure in place and persisting with someone who ultimately doesn't have enough ability for such a huge job doesn't either, and in fact, just compounds the issue. Signing his players, and he'll want involvement in that no doubt, saddles the next manager with more deadwood if he doesn't want them.
Well who'd currently be handling any discussions with potential managers?
Arnold and Murtagh are gone. Berrada and Ashworth haven't officially started yet, considering they're both on gardening leave I can't see them being able to get involved.
I don't know mate I don't work for the club.
We're a month away from the end of the season they will have a pretty good idea what's about to happen. They probably want the directors in first to make it look like they haven't picked the manager.
Well that was quick
I expect Berrada will invite Zidane over to his garden to discuss lawnmowers and weed control techniques and casually let slip that there is about to be a vacancy at United.
Is this fixed with better coaching, better players, same players doing it better, or all of the above? Which has the best marginal benefit/cost tradeoff?
The question is whether this absolves the manager or damns him.
I support Real Madrid. Courtois, the starting goalkeeper, is out for the whole season due to a number of injuries. Militao, the most nailed-on starting CB, has been out for the whole season. David Alaba, another key defender, has been out since mid-December and won't play again this season. Ferland Mendy, the starting left-back, has only started in 55-60% of league/CL games, mostly due to fitness issues. You would expect some kind of negative effect on goals conceded... yet Real Madrid have a better defensive record in the league this year than in the previous two seasons.
Serious and recurring injuries are a limitation in a football team, I don't think anyone disputes that. But they're not an automatic points or 'quality of play' deduction. They can be worked around in better or worse ways.
Sacking a manager for having our worst PL season would not be a "knee jerk reaction".
“A response to a situation or question that is predictable and doesn’t require thought.”
Your response actually frames it as a knee jerk reaction. A less knee jerk reaction would be to say that those mitigating factors did not cover up other damning shortcomings so he should be sacked.
Sacking a manager for failing to reach objectives isn't a knee jerk reaction.
I wonder if ETH has been told he’ll be here next season. He’s already planning for the summer tour and saying he’ll take the strongest squad possible. Surely if he knew he’d be gone he wouldn’t be mentioning the summer plans..
It can be if you don’t have a look at the why of it. I’m not in any way, shape, or form comparing because that would be madness but pretty sure Liverpool’s objectives last year were not to end up in Europa and crash out of cups the way they did.
It would have been ‘knee jerk’ to let go of Klopp, no? Of course, because he’s earned the benefit of the doubt and there were mitigating circumstances.
Don’t think the plan was for him to be a bench player. Just that it’s not working in the system ETH wants to use.
Muppetiers don't know anything
Well Klopp won a title, ten hag won the EFL cup. When Madrid and bayern sack managers within a year or two for failing to reach objectives, its just what big clubs do. Its ruthless.
Agreed. You could argue ETH has earned the benefit of the doubt for ending our trophy drought last season and coming 3rd. However usually the aim is to develop and improve teams over the years. Feels like we took a massive step forward last season and now 2 steps back this season. I do think we overachieved last year though. It helped that Liverpool was miles of it. But this year there’s more competitive teams, you have the likes of Villa and Spurs who are a lot stronger.
Thanks, I'll bear that in mind.
Narrator: But he won't..
Are you doing a joke?
- Status