Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[pocco]

For those wanting to sack him, who do you want to bring in? Will that manager just make the players we have better or will we still need big investment? Are you expecting them to chose the players we sign or the new footballing structure?

For me, personally, I'm happy to give most a chance. If it's true that Ineos and the new guys will decide the style of football, then I trust they'll have options in mind that can deliver that football.

I believe there are managers that could coach this team better than they are. I see teams lower down in our league that are better drilled and organised, so why shouldn't that be possible? But I think we'll start moving towards a vision of a team to fit the style, and we'll try to build it over the next 3 years, mainly consisting of younger players.

I expect the structure will be the ones identifying players using their extensive resources and hopefully utilising our scouts. The manager will probably be involved in discussions to some degree but I don't think they'll be able to overturn targets unless there's a very compelling reason.

 

[Red Dreams]

Erik asked for the veto when he signed under the Glazers to prevent another Ronaldo situation.
This will not happen under SJR.
Erik will have an input of course. But football people will be making the decisions about players coming in.

 

[Hoof the ball]

Insane stat. It's obviously a combination of many things, but it's crazy how reliant we are on teenagers.

You'd think it was Klopp's Kidz who played more than 3,000 minutes the way the media has been rapping on about them this past month.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

For those wanting to sack him, who do you want to bring in? Will that manager just make the players we have better or will we still need big investment? Are you expecting them to chose the players we sign or the new footballing structure?

I don't want him sacked, but there is massive investment needed whether is or not, no one stands a chance next season working with the squad we currently have, and I thought the whole point of the new setup was that they choose the players (and style), so everytime we change the manager it's not such a big drama.

 

[crossy1686]

I'm not doing shit. I don't need to defend anyone to know concluding managerial pedigree from 1st season is stone cold bollocks.

I've taken Ten Hag's first season that was very strong in results and overachieved expectation as an example of that. Follow posts better.

8pts clear of Champions League football, 2 finals and 1 Cup. feck me you're a bad poster.

Says the guy who doesn’t seek outside perspective on United in case it’s ‘negative’.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

One of the things the club is sorting is the youth set up, which is really nothing to do with ETH as it predates him. Look at some of the great results this season from the youth teams and it looks like we have huge amounts of talent coming through. Mainoo and Garnacho are the first of hopefully many. How much praise or credit does ETH deserve for this? Sure he has given them opportunities, but the break through of Garnacho makes Antony signing look even dumber. What problem was Mount solving if he saw Mainoo becoming a regular. With injuries and dreadful form of Antony and Rashford, plus ETH choosing not to replace Eriksen but sign Mount for some unknown position, its kind of been easy for him. So isnt this really the bare minimum we expect from a Manchester United manager rather than some cause for great praise and another season? Plus a lot of finger pointing at ETH for all our injuries which have also given him little alternative to say Kambwala starting.

I don’t think it’s dumb to want more experienced players. Mount is a CL winning midfielder.

Yes, yes he is

Typical Chelsea fan

 

[Big Ben Foster]

A lot of talk here about EtH's veto. I don't see this as big deal and I doubt Ineos would either. As long as he's not actually identifying the targets (which he clearly has done before), then I think it's fine for the Manager to say yes or no to a player he wants or doesn't want.

I think it's important that the Manager and the structure above him have an aligned vision and I believe Ineos will feel the same way. I'm sure the likes of Pep and Klopp have some, albeit minor say in the recruitment; they just allow the scouts and recruitment team to do the bulk of the work.

It depends. The issue with a veto is that the manager is a short-term position and his interest will naturally be the here and now. I wouldn't want to miss out on a generational talent who's available for a large fee but who wouldn't be expected to contribute to the first team for another two years, for example.

 

[VP89]

Says the guy who doesn’t seek outside perspective on United in case it’s ‘negative’.

What sort of bollocks is this? I used him as an example of doubtful managerial pedigree, you understand this? I'm not actually defending him

It's an objective statement, we didn't limp over the line so stop outright making things upm

 

[crossy1686]

What sort of bollocks is this? I used him as an example of doubtful managerial pedigree, you understand this? I'm not actually defending him

It's an objective statement, we didn't limp over the line so stop outright making things upm

We had multiple players out injured due to his insistence on playing the same 11 in micky mouse competitions, which meant someone like Shaw, who's never been able to maintain fitness was playing 3 to 4 times in 2 weeks. Anyone that watched us after the League Cup final knows we were playing shite for the most part.

I didn't see your original post so I don't have the context. From my perspective it felt like we were papering over the cracks before the wheels finally fell off this season, and my post history from the end of last season will back that up.

 

[VP89]

We had multiple players out injured due to his insistence on playing the same 11 in micky mouse competitions, which meant someone like Shaw, who's never been able to maintain fitness was playing 3 to 4 times in 2 weeks. Anyone that watched us after the League Cup final knows we were playing shite for the most part.

I didn't see your original post so I don't have the context. From my perspective it felt like we were papering over the cracks before the wheels finally fell off this season, and my post history from the end of last season will back that up.

So we didn't limp over the line. We comfortably finished in the top 3, finished with two finals, one cup and had about the same levels as what you'd expect with that amount of games. Cool.

 

[parmenio]

I don't want him sacked, but there is massive investment needed whether is or not, no one stands a chance next season working with the squad we currently have, and I thought the whole point of the new setup was that they choose the players (and style), so everytime we change the manager it's not such a big drama.

Hes spent well over £400m in 2 years and you still think massive investment needed with ETH at the helm. How much he need to build a team. Insanity.

 

[Berbaclass]

Hes spent well over £400m in 2 years and you still think massive investment needed with ETH at the helm. How much he need to build a team. Insanity.

A bunch of players need replacing yeah. Not necessarily ETH signings either.

The only safe players right now IMO are

Onana
Dalot
Martinez (if he gets fit again)
Shaw (If he gets fit again)
Mainoo
Garnacho
Hojlund

I'd happily move everybody else on.

 

[bosnian_red]

Hes spent well over £400m in 2 years and you still think massive investment needed with ETH at the helm. How much he need to build a team. Insanity.

Gotta separate the manager from the signings. There's plenty to criticize of Ten Hag before pointing at things that under a competent club structure, he wouldn't have been responsible for anyway.

 

[stevoc]

Can you conclude that ETH has a positive influence under their growing?

It's possible.

 

[crossy1686]

So we didn't limp over the line. We comfortably finished in the top 3, finished with two finals, one cup and had about the same levels as what you'd expect with that amount of games. Cool.

We absolutely limped over the line. We picked up 15 points from a possible 24 in the last 8 games and on game week 36 Liverpool had chased us down from being 13 points behind to only 4. We almost shit the bed. I know you like to use last season as evidence that Ten Hag is a great manager so I don't expect you to say anything other than it was amazing.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Hes spent well over £400m in 2 years and you still think massive investment needed with ETH at the helm. How much he need to build a team. Insanity.

Yes, with or without Ten Hag massive investment is needed.

If someone could give me a viable option for who Ineos might actually for, then I could be interested, until then I see no issue in just sticking with what we've got.

 

[parmenio]

Gotta separate the manager from the signings. There's plenty to criticize of Ten Hag before pointing at things that under a competent club structure, he wouldn't have been responsible for anyway.

No that’s completely wrong. ETH and his squad building has reduced us to having Johnny Evan’s as our savior at CH. No fit LB and half a defence most of the season. 1 striker and if it wasn’t for the emergence of Mainoo a disaster of a midfield. Our squad has more holes this summer than when he started and that’s after spending 400m. It’s an absolute disgrace.

 

[RORY65]

No that’s completely wrong. ETH and his squad building has reduced us to having Johnny Evan’s as our savior at CH. No fit LB and half a defence most of the season. 1 striker and if it wasn’t for the emergence of Mainoo a disaster of a midfield. Our squad has more holes this summer than when he started and that’s after spending 400m. It’s an absolute disgrace.

In fairness isn't the point that if building the squad was entrusted to people specifically put in place to do that and with greater expertise to do so than the squad wouldn't be so shit? Ten Hag came here as someone who had done very well (not amazing but very well) at a club with a dislikeable but successful director of football in Marc Overmars.

Ten Hag wasn't responsible for squad building at Ajax but he moved to a bigger club in a bigger league and was suddenly given a lot of power over transfer policy above the stuff he had done previously. The fact that the team's organisation is atrocious every game and we're getting so many injuries can be blamed on Ten Hag (at least to a large extent) and things that mean I think he should lose his job in the summer but the squad building at United has been dreadful for a long time and the current group we have, made up of probably zero players that would start for a title winning team, is the culmination of the club's failures for many years.

 

[bosnian_red]

No that’s completely wrong. ETH and his squad building has reduced us to having Johnny Evan’s as our savior at CH. No fit LB and half a defence most of the season. 1 striker and if it wasn’t for the emergence of Mainoo a disaster of a midfield. Our squad has more holes this summer than when he started and that’s after spending 400m. It’s an absolute disgrace.

What is completely wrong? That the manager shouldn't be responsible for the signings, and it's more an indictment on our club structure that our squad is in the state it is in? Yes his signings have been shit. A good structure wouldn't have asked for him to lead the recruitment. That's it. That's why I don't bother giving him much stick for that. He's shit at recruitment, ok, most managers are shit at recruitment, you need a while department to focus on that as their entire job, not a passing thought from the guy who should be coaching us.

 

[VP89]

We absolutely limped over the line. We picked up 15 points from a possible 24 in the last 8 games and on game week 36 Liverpool had chased us down from being 13 points behind to only 4. We almost shit the bed. I know you like to use last season as evidence that Ten Hag is a great manager so I don't expect you to say anything other than it was amazing.

Having a downturn in form is not the same limping over the line. We were able to effectively nosedive in form in the final weeks of the season and still walk top 4, and win a cup, whilst reaching an FA Cup final. That objectively proved your statement as bullshit, irrespective of any stance on Ten Hag.

 

[parmenio]

Jesus the cult of Ten Hag are superb at deflection and twaddle. Nothing is ever his fault. Thank god he’s away in the summer and we can move in from Crap football and excuse after excuse for a manager who is totally out his depth. Oooh but he got to the CL semi with Ajax well how did he do in the Cal with United.
Haha we were able to nose dive in form and still make Top 4. The insanity there is the manager oversaw the nose dive and hasn’t been able to halt it. Despite spending over £200m in the summer the footy is still dire and we rely on moments of brilliance to save us. He’s a dud and that’s it. He’s not able to manage at the top level simple as that. Compare him to Ange now there’s a manager that can do his job.

 

[Lash]

For me, personally, I'm happy to give most a chance. If it's true that Ineos and the new guys will decide the style of football, then I trust they'll have options in mind that can deliver that football.

I believe there are managers that could coach this team better than they are. I see teams lower down in our league that are better drilled and organised, so why shouldn't that be possible? But I think we'll start moving towards a vision of a team to fit the style, and we'll try to build it over the next 3 years, mainly consisting of younger players.

I expect the structure will be the ones identifying players using their extensive resources and hopefully utilising our scouts. The manager will probably be involved in discussions to some degree but I don't think they'll be able to overturn targets unless there's a very compelling reason.

It definitely should be possible, but it's definitely apples and oranges doing it at United and with highly paid players who know they can just wait out a manager. I agree though, it will take shape over the next 3 years and we have an absolute factory line in our academy that should at least produce 3 first teamers!

I don't want him sacked, but there is massive investment needed whether is or not, no one stands a chance next season working with the squad we currently have, and I thought the whole point of the new setup was that they choose the players (and style), so everytime we change the manager it's not such a big drama.

Agreed.

 

[stevoc]

In fairness isn't the point that if building the squad was entrusted to people specifically put in place to do that and with greater expertise to do so than the squad wouldn't be so shit? Ten Hag came here as someone who had done very well (not amazing but very well) at a club with a dislikeable but successful director of football in Marc Overmars.

Ten Hag wasn't responsible for squad building at Ajax but he moved to a bigger club in a bigger league and was suddenly given a lot of power over transfer policy above the stuff he had done previously. The fact that the team's organisation is atrocious every game and we're getting so many injuries can be blamed on Ten Hag (at least to a large extent) and things that mean I think he should lose his job in the summer but the squad building at United has been dreadful for a long time and the current group we have, made up of probably zero players that would start for a title winning team, is the culmination of the club's failures for many years.

Power and control that he demanded as one of his conditions for joining. Let's not suggest he's a victim who's had responsibilities heaped upon him that he didn't exepct to have.

 

[RORY65]

Power and control that he demanded as one of his conditions for joining. Let's not suggest he's a victim who's had responsibilities heaped upon him that he didn't exepct to have.

I'm not portraying him as a victim but it was completely idiotic to offer it to him on that basis unless they had reason to believe that he secretly had the expertise to do it despite not doing so at Ajax. He was a gamble when we appointed him, much like De Zerbi or Motta would be now, he shouldn't have been such a guarantee that he could throw round demands like that especially to the newly appointed director of football who was the one interviewing him. If Murtough and the other people in place were competent they wouldn't have felt the need to agree to that demand (Ten Hag wasn't going to turn it down and wait for fecking Real Madrid or whoever having been turned down previously by Spurs).

 

[stevoc]

I'm not portraying him as a victim but it was completely idiotic to offer it to him on that basis unless they had reason to believe that he secretly had the expertise to do it despite not doing so at Ajax. He was a gamble when we appointed him, much like De Zerbi or Motta would be now, he shouldn't have been such a guarantee that he could throw round demands like that especially to the newly appointed director of football who was the one interviewing him. If Murtough and the other people in place were competent they wouldn't have felt the need to agree to that demand (Ten Hag wasn't going to turn it down and wait for fecking Real Madrid or whoever having been turned down previously by Spurs).

Well it was one of his conditions to join and the 4 previous United managers had far more control over transfers than most managers do so they rightly or wrongly didn't see the harm in giving him that power. But yes I agree we shouldn't have given him so much control, in appointing Murtagh as a sort of DOF we should have been stripping powers away from the managers positon at Manchester United not increasing them. This is as we know a hangover from the Ferguson era where he was all powerful, power he had earned. Since SAF retired the Glazers have been looking for another Fergie to run the whole show for them and keep the team competitive because they don't have a clue. But there's only one Alex Ferguson.

This will change now under Ineos.

 

[NLunited]

Ten Hag won‘t accept different terms to stay another year: he either walks with the payoff or serves out his contract.

I can‘t see him getting a new two-year contract right now with the wildly inconsistent results we‘ve had.

 

[Cerberus]

For those wanting to sack him, who do you want to bring in? Will that manager just make the players we have better or will we still need big investment? Are you expecting them to chose the players we sign or the new footballing structure?

Anyone the new football structure deems appropriate. Might as well take a gamble on someone new instead of continuing with a manager that's never shown any signs of potentially challenging for the title after two full seasons.

Will that manager just make the players we have better or will we still need big investment?

Both. Any good manager should raise the overall quality of this team. The talent is there considering we still grind out wins despite our horrible setup.

Are you expecting them to chose the players we sign or the new footballing structure?

Primarily the latter with some input from the former.

 

[SirBillNic]

Yes, with or without Ten Hag massive investment is needed.

If someone could give me a viable option for who Ineos might actually for, then I could be interested, until then I see no issue in just sticking with what we've got.

I know his stock has fallen recently, but I still think De Zerbi would be a better option. Ten Hag has said he can't play at United like he played at Ajax, which to me basically invalidates the logic for which he was hired in the first place (based on the way he had Ajax playing).

I don't think De Zerbi would compromise on his preferred way of playing and I think he would know what kinds of players he needs, which is the first thing that United needs right now imo. Regardless of the changes above the manager, there has to be a clear vision toward which things can move. Ten Hag signed players he had before, which suggests a plan to replicate what he's done before, but then he completely changes style and says he can't play that way. So where exactly are you headed?

Even without signings, De Zerbi would come in and add structure and have a clear plan, drill the team in training to play a certain way, improve players who are already there. And then I think he would be able to say yay or nay to proposed signings on the basis of whether they have the correct attributes for the system he wants.

 

[Pscholes18]

"He'll be ace when he gets the right players"

Wonderful!

The entire midfield is his - Casemiro, Amrabat, Mount & Mainoo are all his players.
The Goalkeeper - Who was supposed to help increase our scoring (Remember that gem?) is his.
Two of the front three - Antony and Rasmus are his choices. He was lucky to inherit an exciting young talent in Garnacho.

But yeah, we'll be rocking when he gets the "right players"

Can't wait for Mr Ten Hack to show us the promised land. It's coming!

You should read Whitwells article to see what ETH was dealing with when he showed up. There is a reason why Murtough was was binned. They were lazy, did feck all to help him.

 

[Waynne]

For those wanting to sack him, who do you want to bring in? Will that manager just make the players we have better or will we still need big investment? Are you expecting them to chose the players we sign or the new footballing structure?

I'd give Ten Hag a chance with Berrada, Ashworth and Wilcox at the helm. If he fails then I'd defo want rid of him.

 

[hobbers]

They were lazy, did feck all to help him.

* Except presenting him with 2 former players he desperately wanted and one Eredivise prospect he was very keen on.

Also presumably backed him fully when he was being a proper disciplinarian in the early days, and obviously backed him during the Ronaldo saga.

 

[L1nk]

The problem I see with wanting to give Ten Hag a chance with the new setup is... what's the new setup really going to do for him? Yes we'll sign new players but quite frankly I don't see what that does for a system that looks inherently broken. It's his tactical setup that needs to change. Not only that but the amount of non contact muscle injuries this season has been alarming, that's a sign that the players are being overworked and there have been reports of the training being overly brutal.

 

[Fridge chutney]

He should get 1 more year.

 

[croadyman]

I think at the moment it's quite possible he sees his final year out and then we bring in the new manager in 2025 (Nagelsmann?), Ashworth will work on the manager and the targets in the next year.

Will he even still be on the market next summer with Bayern & Barca looking for managers. Yeah I can definitely see Erik getting a season under this new structure when you look at Ratcliffe quotes.

 

[Insanity]

You should read Whitwells article to see what ETH was dealing with when he showed up. There is a reason why Murtough was was binned. They were lazy, did feck all to help him.

I read the article and know all too well about their dithering. However, it also mentioned how he insisted on his targets and then got them. Antony is a bad signing, 80m+ merely makes it looks worse. It's not like he would have solved our RW issue if he was bought for 40m. He would be the same player. The same with Case, Onana, Mount, Amrabat, Malacia etc.

 

[Berbaclass]

Will he even still be on the market next summer with Bayern & Barca looking for managers. Yeah I can definitely see Erik getting a season under this new structure when you look at Ratcliffe quotes.

I was assuming he stays with Germany for another year.

 

[redcucumber]

What is completely wrong? That the manager shouldn't be responsible for the signings, and it's more an indictment on our club structure that our squad is in the state it is in? Yes his signings have been shit. A good structure wouldn't have asked for him to lead the recruitment. That's it. That's why I don't bother giving him much stick for that. He's shit at recruitment, ok, most managers are shit at recruitment, you need a while department to focus on that as their entire job, not a passing thought from the guy who should be coaching us.

ten Hag said in an interview that one of his stipulations prior to joining was control over transfers. I'm sure he'd agree to some rearrangement of that now given he's got feck all leverage but quite possibly he wouldn't have been here if we had turned down his demands re. structure and approach to signings.

 

[M16Red]

Jesus the cult of Ten Hag are superb at deflection and twaddle. Nothing is ever his fault. Thank god he’s away in the summer and we can move in from Crap football and excuse after excuse for a manager who is totally out his depth. Oooh but he got to the CL semi with Ajax well how did he do in the Cal with United.
Haha we were able to nose dive in form and still make Top 4. The insanity there is the manager oversaw the nose dive and hasn’t been able to halt it. Despite spending over £200m in the summer the footy is still dire and we rely on moments of brilliance to save us. He’s a dud and that’s it. He’s not able to manage at the top level simple as that. Compare him to Ange now there’s a manager that can do his job.

This should have more likes, we need more of these. Brilliant.

 

[VP89]

No that’s completely wrong. ETH and his squad building has reduced us to having Johnny Evan’s as our savior at CH. No fit LB and half a defence most of the season. 1 striker and if it wasn’t for the emergence of Mainoo a disaster of a midfield. Our squad has more holes this summer than when he started and that’s after spending 400m. It’s an absolute disgrace.

Weird positions to criticise if you followed our summer, bar midfield.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

I see VP is still here defending ETH. I was on holiday and read with some bemusement the reactions to the Liverpool match. One of our worst performances against our big rivals possibly ever, yet one somewhat fluky goal and a wonder from Mainoo and all is forgiven. We were awful and the stats speak for themselves. Exactly the same problems as at the start of the season, when he had a near full squad. Massively open, pass easily bypassed, no midfield. Rinse and repeat. His chaotic style and pressure it puts on players is undoubtedly a factor in our horrible injury record. He has to go. Great to see Murtough out the door, another Glazer yes man who was promoted way above his ability. There is simply nothing happening on the pitch that can merit giving ETH another season, its a poor man's Ole ball.

Yea i said this in a few of the threats, as usual the manutd superfans came and said people like us are embarassment the club to expect more intelligence from the players and coaches.