Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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crossy1686 said:
Why would he agree to that? Lower salary, lower payout on sacking, gets to be fired as the man who couldn't get a tune out of United despite spending £400m + whatever he gets in the summer, despite having all this new structure around him that previous managers have used as an excuse after being fired.

I'm convinced people think whomever the manager is that they must love the club inside out, or that they're a United fan who wants what's best for the club at their own expense. Ten Hag can be fired this summer and have a million excuses, some valid and enough to cause a new employer reasonable doubt. Next year he's going back to Holland on the express train if he fecks up, there's absolutely no sane reason as to why he'd take a 1 year extension.
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Because he either gets sacked or effectively agrees to a demotion from manager to head coach which would require a new contract.
 
Berbaclass said:
Because he either gets sacked or effectively agrees to a demotion from manager to head coach which would require a new contract.
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No it wouldn't. You can have an org restructure and have your title and job responsibilities changed without signing a new contract. He still manages the first team, nothing will change for him.
 
crossy1686 said:
No it wouldn't. You can have an org restructure and have your title and job responsibilities changed without signing a new contract. He still manages the first team, nothing will change for him.
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Yes, it will stop being dense. He has stuff written into it that INEOS don't want to give him. It's been widely reported.
 
Berbaclass said:
Yes, it will stop being dense. He has stuff written into it that INEOS don't want to give him. It's been widely reported.
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If it's even remotely true then he'll just mutually agree a termination in the summer. It doesn't make any sense for him personally to take a lesser deal if he has indeed been offered one.
 
crossy1686 said:
If it's even remotely true then he'll just mutually agree a termination in the summer. It doesn't make any sense for him personally to take a lesser deal if he has indeed been offered one.
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I expect that to happen if he doesn't give up his veto yes.

Of course it makes sense though, if he stays on for multiple more years if successful. Up to him whether he backs himself I guess.
 
Berbaclass said:
Because he either gets sacked or effectively agrees to a demotion from manager to head coach which would require a new contract.
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His pride won't allow him to agree to a 1 year extension to 'prove himself' imo. Plus it makes him look desperate. Worst case scenario if we really don't want to sack him, we'll just let him ride out his last year and part ways next summer.
 
mu4c_20le said:
His pride won't allow him to agree to a 1 year extension to 'prove himself'. Plus it makes him look desperate. Worst case scenario if we really don't want to sack him, we'll just let him ride out his last year and part ways next summer.
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You have no idea mate. None of us do. All we can do is wait and see.
 
Berbaclass said:
I expect that to happen if he doesn't give up his veto yes.

Of course it makes sense though, if he stays on for multiple more years if successful. Up to him whether he backs himself I guess.
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If he stays on past the summer his career at the top level in Europe's big 3 leagues is over. If he wants to keep any credibility he has to walk away in the summer.
 
Berbaclass said:
Becasue he has it written into his contract some of the power he currently has. That needs to change for him to stay as they don't want to give him as much as he currently has so it will need to be re-written.
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Well I don't know if that is in his contract, if it is (big if) then i see your point in them wanting to change his contract.

But I personally don't see them extending his contract, the opposite is more likely.
 
Mike Smalling said:


Insane stat. It's obviously a combination of many things, but it's crazy how reliant we are on teenagers.
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It’s great to see and also shows why a little bit of patience may also be needed.
hobbers said:
'Working under a proper structure' is just such a meaningless phrase.

How does this proper structure affect training sessions? Affect player fitness and conditioning? Affect tactical work and game management? It doesn't.

All a "proper structure" means is that there's better long term planning around recruitment and academy prospects, and that the coach is held accountable for their coaching methods and philosophy.
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  1. Training: better squad = better training performance
  2. Fitness and conditioning: better recruitment strategy = fitter and more robust athletes and facilities to support rehabilitation and injury prevention
  3. Tactical work: better players = better tactical understanding, more able to follow instructions and cover the large spaces needed for a good rest defence
  4. Game management: better players manage ends of games better, with the above improvements to fitness and performance
  5. It improves more than you understand
 
crossy1686 said:
Picked the same 11 for 2/3's of the season until they all got injured and we limped over the finish line.
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People speak about that first season like we were irresistible to watch I swear. It was a nice job of grafting results but acting like it was anything more than that is insanity, especially considering the drop off post cup win. Job well done sure, but not some clear example of brilliant coaching and management that I can look back on and put trust in. Especially considering metrics had us more deserving of somewhere around 5th/6th and we largely rode an anomaly of a purple patch from Rashford.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
It’s great to see and also shows why a little bit of patience may also be needed.

  1. Training: better squad = better training performance
  2. Fitness and conditioning: better recruitment strategy = fitter and more robust athletes and facilities to support rehabilitation and injury prevention
  3. Tactical work: better players = better tactical understanding, more able to follow instructions and cover the large spaces needed for a good rest defence
  4. Game management: better players manage ends of games better, with the above improvements to fitness and performance
  5. It improves more than you understand
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One of the things the club is sorting is the youth set up, which is really nothing to do with ETH as it predates him. Look at some of the great results this season from the youth teams and it looks like we have huge amounts of talent coming through. Mainoo and Garnacho are the first of hopefully many. How much praise or credit does ETH deserve for this? Sure he has given them opportunities, but the break through of Garnacho makes Antony signing look even dumber. What problem was Mount solving if he saw Mainoo becoming a regular. With injuries and dreadful form of Antony and Rashford, plus ETH choosing not to replace Eriksen but sign Mount for some unknown position, its kind of been easy for him. So isnt this really the bare minimum we expect from a Manchester United manager rather than some cause for great praise and another season? Plus a lot of finger pointing at ETH for all our injuries which have also given him little alternative to say Kambwala starting.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
People speak about that first season like we were irresistible to watch I swear. It was a nice job of grafting results but acting like it was anything more than that is insanity, especially considering the drop off post cup win. Job well done sure, but not some clear example of brilliant coaching and management that I can look back on and put trust in. Especially considering metrics had us more deserving of somewhere around 5th/6th and we largely rode an anomaly of a purple patch from Rashford.
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Agreed, it was promising but also dropped off a cliff and some horrible big defeats that were never acceptable. His refusal to rotate helped us win the mickey mouse trophy but also a big factor in our injury list.
 
Berbaclass said:
He has a veto.
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Yes I know but as far as I know Solskjaer also had a veto. I don't know if this is something that would be formally written into the managers contract or just understood by both parties to be part of his responsibilities as manager.
 
stevoc said:
Yes I know but as far as I know Solskjaer also had a veto. I don't know if this is something that would be formally written into the managers contract or just understood by both parties to be part of his responsibilities as manager.
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I think ETH wanted it guaranteed when agreeing to come here

However, a source has told ESPN the veto is written into Ten Hag's contract and he expects the clause to be honoured despite a change of personnel at the top of the football department. Ten Hag is set to hold meetings with Ratcliffe, Brailsford and the rest of the INEOS team ahead of official ratification of the deal.
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BenitoSTARR said:
It’s great to see and also shows why a little bit of patience may also be needed.

  1. Training: better squad = better training performance
  2. Fitness and conditioning: better recruitment strategy = fitter and more robust athletes and facilities to support rehabilitation and injury prevention
  3. Tactical work: better players = better tactical understanding, more able to follow instructions and cover the large spaces needed for a good rest defence
  4. Game management: better players manage ends of games better, with the above improvements to fitness and performance
  5. It improves more than you understand
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All this is just a long way of saying better players should make things better.

And like I said, better players a) need to get in the door and we'll be lucky if we make 3 significant signings as per usual and b) won't rescue us from manager who is incompetent, tactically inept and wildly out of his depth.

Mainoo is the most intelligent player we have by some margin and there's no coincidence he also seems to be the one always most visibly puzzled by the instructions he's been given.
 
A lot of talk here about EtH's veto. I don't see this as big deal and I doubt Ineos would either. As long as he's not actually identifying the targets (which he clearly has done before), then I think it's fine for the Manager to say yes or no to a player he wants or doesn't want.

I think it's important that the Manager and the structure above him have an aligned vision and I believe Ineos will feel the same way. I'm sure the likes of Pep and Klopp have some, albeit minor say in the recruitment; they just allow the scouts and recruitment team to do the bulk of the work.
 
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hobbers said:
All this is just a long way of saying better players should make things better.

And like I said, better players a) need to get in the door and we'll be lucky if we make 3 significant signings as per usual and b) won't rescue us from manager who is incompetent, tactically inept and wildly out of his depth.
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You asked. Now you a small way it helps.

Good thing we aren’t in the bold situation.
 
Gordon's Hill said:
I see VP is still here defending ETH. I was on holiday and read with some bemusement the reactions to the Liverpool match. One of our worst performances against our big rivals possibly ever, yet one somewhat fluky goal and a wonder from Mainoo and all is forgiven. We were awful and the stats speak for themselves. Exactly the same problems as at the start of the season, when he had a near full squad. Massively open, pass easily bypassed, no midfield. Rinse and repeat. His chaotic style and pressure it puts on players is undoubtedly a factor in our horrible injury record. He has to go. Great to see Murtough out the door, another Glazer yes man who was promoted way above his ability. There is simply nothing happening on the pitch that can merit giving ETH another season, its a poor man's Ole ball.
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I'm not doing shit. I don't need to defend anyone to know concluding managerial pedigree from 1st season is stone cold bollocks.

I've taken Ten Hag's first season that was very strong in results and overachieved expectation as an example of that. Follow posts better.
crossy1686 said:
Picked the same 11 for 2/3's of the season until they all got injured and we limped over the finish line.
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8pts clear of Champions League football, 2 finals and 1 Cup. feck me you're a bad poster.
 
hobbers said:
'Working under a proper structure' is just such a meaningless phrase.

How does this proper structure affect training sessions? Affect player fitness and conditioning? Affect tactical work and game management? It doesn't.

All a "proper structure" means is that there's better long term planning around recruitment and academy prospects, and that the coach is held accountable for their coaching methods and philosophy.
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Someone that talks to him from week to week and measures his results against targets rather than just responding to how the crowd is reacting
 
Berbaclass said:
I think ETH wanted it guaranteed when agreeing to come here
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I'm not saying it's not possible, it could well be the case. But if he insists on keeping it I think he might be looking for new employment. That's if Ineos aren't already planning along those lines.
 
Berbaclass said:
My prediction is he gets a conditional 1 year extension. If he doesn’t meet certain expectations/targets then they can terminate the contract at a lower price. Allows the transition to be smoother but also protects the club and or INEOS from the financial hit.
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He’s only got a year left anyway, no need for an extension
 
Berbaclass said:
My prediction is he gets a conditional 1 year extension. If he doesn’t meet certain expectations/targets then they can terminate the contract at a lower price. Allows the transition to be smoother but also protects the club and or INEOS from the financial hit.
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I wouldn't be surprised if there is already a reduced compensation clause if we didn't make CL.

That said, ETH only has until 2025 anyway.
 
For those wanting to sack him, who do you want to bring in? Will that manager just make the players we have better or will we still need big investment? Are you expecting them to chose the players we sign or the new footballing structure?
 
stevoc said:
We have teo outstanding young players in Garnacho and Mainoo. So it makes sense especially with the injuries, Antony being Antony and Sancho being frozen out that they've played so much.
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Can you conclude that ETH has a positive influence under their growing?
Gordon's Hill said:
One of the things the club is sorting is the youth set up, which is really nothing to do with ETH as it predates him. Look at some of the great results this season from the youth teams and it looks like we have huge amounts of talent coming through. Mainoo and Garnacho are the first of hopefully many. How much praise or credit does ETH deserve for this? Sure he has given them opportunities, but the break through of Garnacho makes Antony signing look even dumber. What problem was Mount solving if he saw Mainoo becoming a regular. With injuries and dreadful form of Antony and Rashford, plus ETH choosing not to replace Eriksen but sign Mount for some unknown position, its kind of been easy for him. So isnt this really the bare minimum we expect from a Manchester United manager rather than some cause for great praise and another season? Plus a lot of finger pointing at ETH for all our injuries which have also given him little alternative to say Kambwala starting.
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Seeing as how ETH gets blamed from here to the moon how wrong he sets up this and that player (I can't believe why he ever persisted with playing Rashford number 9. Only recently he decided if we don't have a 9, he keeps on playing inside forward with more focus on goal but still starting from left), surely he should then also get credit when a youngster is performing well?

I agree Erik didn't set up the youth squad but he makes the decisions who stays and who doesn't. Who gets to play, even when the 86 million number one choice winger is available, and who is not(the only bad thing about the Antony signing, is the price tag. Lately he has been the outstanding perfomer, with some outstanding assists). Ten Hag made the decision between Pellistri and Garnacho, and the latter won the nod. Oh, and ETH even got ex youth Johnny Evans back in the squad!

I do think the number is a bit skewed - I doubt we would test and play as many if we had some better choice players with experience, but is it far fetched to say he is in line with Klopp believing in young people? LvG? And he would win the contest with a guy like Jose Mourinho hands down.
 
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