Injuries are constantly used as an excuse for him but it’s worth considering how the ridiculously chaotic style of play that he goes with exposes a lot of players (especially in defense) to situations (last ditch tackles) where they can get injured. This is part of the game but if we’re getting dominated for vast parts of games, these moments are just way more in number. Even with no midweek games, this utterly chaotic approach is a recipe for disaster from a fitness perspective.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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No, the point I am making is there are other 'nobodies' in the management field who can become very good to WC. Look how many duds Liverpool had before they got Klopp, yet all were operating under the same structure.
We have an opportunity to find our elite manager as we are now starting to operate under a different structure from the bankers the parasites forced on the club.
Emery is a decent manager, but not elite. McKenna could be an elite manager in the future, but could also step up and fail. Its trial and error unfortunately.
Absolutely right, may not have the players but he still should of implemented the system to get the club moving in the right direction.
The point of putting in place the proper structure is to ease any potential extra workload a manager may have and allow them to focus on just the coaching side. Hence why we are looking for the manager to become more of a 'head coach'
Indeed, so they've changed managers a few times during those guys time at the club though.
His coaching and his style of football is nowhere near what Ineos would accept. He is not their man and changing him after this car crash of a season is the easiest thing for them to do without anyone raising an eyebrow.
Unless Eth has provided some amazing presentations to JR and Brailsford on how he will turn this around including a more proactive play style which will allow us to compete with the best sides, he is as good as gone at the end of the season.
Obviously if we turn things around in the last 8 games winning while playing swashbuckling football and dismantling City enroute to an FA cup title, then he will rightly stay back to be given another shot at it next season.
My feeling is Ineos are just waiting for the end of the season to get their own man in.
The fact that ETH beat Real may have had bearing on us eliminating Barca last season. Managers have both bogey teams and relative whipping boys. SAF did very well against Juventus when they were good, and did poorly against German and Spanish teams, bar exceptions.
Yes but the premise is the same whether head coach or manager. Its just trial and error until it clicks.
Makes me sick watching a functional midfield - Arsenal's matrix is so difficult to get through, Brighton have to go wide and even then, turn back on themselves because there's nowhere to go. It's a massive effort get into thr final third for them, let alone have any strike on goal.
It's like watching a different sport, sadly.
It's like watching a different sport, sadly.
Yes but I think with City in particular the plan was always Pep. I don't know as much about Liverpool and their structure admittedly.
No, I think it reduces the risk of hiring a manager to an extent. In theory anyway.
Yep
It was I agree, Liverpools structure is probably an overstated part of their recent moderate success. The things they've won have largely been down to Klopp being a top manager. City as well to a certain extent are only this good because of Pep.
On the evidence of his time at United Ten Hag isn't a top manager and I don't think even a best in class stucture above him will compensate for that.
Perhaps. Barca were also clearly focusing on the league and not the second tier european cup. Also Fred was immense in the second leg, but he binned him for some reason.
Well said. As for the reason, I say it was Fred's red card in Europe (don't know the match), the one that made ETH look like a dodgy manager, that might have been a catalyst.
PSG I think
I wouldn't say last season was a particulary good one. After the cup win, we had a negative GD to the end of the season I believe (I'm quoting an old post from here, but I wound't be surprised). We were hanging on like hell to stay in the CL spots. We weren't conceding changes like we have this season but we took some absolute pastings too. It was an average season at best. To not improve on that is absolutely the reason why he needs to go.
We won a trophy and qualified for the Champions League. That is a relatively good season.
This sort of revisionism does my head in because people think he's shite now.
CL qualification was a minimum objective, he would have lost his job if we hadn't.
Oh thanks.
Yes and we achieved it. Winning a trophy and getting to the FA Cup final.
The extra workload with respect to transfers is overstated as an excuse for how we have been outclassed by almost everyone we have played
A good structure will help a top manager get his vision implemented quickly as the structure will help him get the right players in. It won’t make a crap manager a good one.
In our case, it will barely make a difference if Eth continues to coach us and uses the same suicide set up which he has stubbornly refused to budge from.
The end of the season was always going to be hard.
There was a World Cup in the middle of the season and we are the team that played the most games among the top 5 leagues.
I guess all the injuries this season are also a side effect of this often brushed unusual schedule we had last year
That structure being in place would probably help avoid the Sancho situation or the Ronaldo situation though, which both became a big problem for ETH.
Not to mention stuff like Greenwood.
The structural change also signifies a cultural shift in the club. The Glazers were only bothered about top 4 for their bottom line and dividends so naturally that filters down through most people at the club and complacency becomes rife. Over time it becomes acceptable to just qualify for the Champions League and standards slip further and further.
The right structure increases the demands and puts winning back at the top of the agenda with the overall attitude being that anything else is not good enough. That is why it will make such an impact because being unsuccessful won't be tolerated anymore.
This is the key thing that many people are missing.
Nah it wasn't, I think most people just wanted to see us moving in the right direction last season. Champions League and a trophy was a great result, let's not pretend otherwise.
The issue is that on reflection he benefited greatly from Liverpool and Spurs having terrible seasons. That and more importantly that we have now seen a stretch of more than half his time here were we are very rarely the better team even when we win and even when we play far smaller clubs. There is no sustainable style of play that would give any hope that we are progressing, the tactics are horrendous and set up for failure. I would argue that we have never sustainably looked like a worse team than we have for the last 18 months during my lifetime.
Plus "hire a specific manager and his mates" is not really what most people have in mind when they're talking about a structure.
City did that though, they hired a bunch of guys from Barca because they were the benchmark at the time.
Give over with your 'revisionism' bull****. Once his methods kicked in, around the time of the cup win (which was very fortunate), we struggled and to suggest otherwise would tell me you don't watch us enough. Other teams had bigger shockers than us which allowed us an easy run at top 4. Funny how all those teams have kicked on and we've regressed, eh?
History will tell us that it was a good season on paper, but when you consider the downward spiral in playing style and regression in footballing standards, last season set the precedent for this season.
De Zebri is getting called out right now for losing against league leaders with Brighton.
They guy will be massacred 3 months in the job on redcafe!
They guy will be massacred 3 months in the job on redcafe!
Absolute nonsense
Indeed. Our success last year was based on Varane and Martinez providing a stable partnership, Casemiro playing well in the first half of the season and, above all, Rashford turning in a world class season. All that has disappeared. ETH's fault?
The setup is high risk but I understand why he does it even if I don’t agree. We have next to zero goal threat when teams are organised so we, mostly through issues with personnel, essentially accept we’ll be open and try to create chances off interceptions and forcing errors. There’s a reason teams have so many shots against us, there seems to be an interest in letting them commit men forwards against us and we will actively break with numbers and be ok getting countered. It’s mental but then we’re above Chelsea who are the opposite of us and trying to play great possession footy.
The overtraining thing I can’t see any truth in. He’s definitely tried to make us fitter but clearly some players aren’t happy with that.
He’s definitely gone end of season in my opinion but I think what we’re seeing now is simply him trying to survive. I don’t think this is by any means the plan or what he coaches purely because no one coaches how we play. It’s bonkers.
Imagine having a manager not having ‘aura’ win a league? Impossible.
I know ‘aura’ is used colloquially for some who has presence, but I totally dont feel this in any of our managers since Fergie left, except maybe LVG.
‘Aura’ inspires your team to give that extra 10% and makes opposition play 10% less positive due to fear.
We need to reclaim the fear from opposition and referees.
I know ‘aura’ is used colloquially for some who has presence, but I totally dont feel this in any of our managers since Fergie left, except maybe LVG.
‘Aura’ inspires your team to give that extra 10% and makes opposition play 10% less positive due to fear.
We need to reclaim the fear from opposition and referees.
No, it's not entirely ETH's fault he is so limited and reliant on individual brilliance...
Agree. You hire and sack based on results. Standards have been set and must be met. It could be someone proven (Klopp and Pep hires), it could be someone who hasn’t made their mark yet (Alonso with Leverkusen).
Wait. Now you want Ten Hag to concentrate and focus his efforts on tactics and pre game team prep and in game management? Those are arguably the areas he’s weakest. Is your theory that if he spends more time on things he’s bad at he’ll get better?
Call me crazy but I believe his head coaching responsibilities are the absolute priority and my guess is he is spending 90% of his time on this aspect of his current role. Making it so he spends that extra 10% on those tasks is suddenly going to turn him into the second coming of Rinus Michels?
Out of interest, who's fault is it then when most of the side have gone from playing well to dropping to this seasons levels?
Adds nothing to the discussion
So the new trending word for the ETH cult is “structure”.
The magical elixir that will miraculously turn Eric (already the greatest living manager in their eyes) into the best manager ever. From Frank De Boer he will turn into Johan Cruyff.
The magical elixir that will miraculously turn Eric (already the greatest living manager in their eyes) into the best manager ever. From Frank De Boer he will turn into Johan Cruyff.
The injuries I'm really not sure about. Were they over training? Ws it because of a small squad meaning players were over-played? Lack of organisation meaning more runing was needed? I don't know.
Rashford is just a problem. I laughed at all the people who wanted to sell him but now I'm beginning to agree.
Casemiro, Erikson, Varane are just too old. Pure Glazernomics acquisitions. Evans?
But many players have improved in fairness. There are signs of progress. A decent transfer window and fewer injuries would see us beginning to take shape I think.
He's just not any good at anything whatsoever is he.
If we keep him it will be due to INEOS taking a pragmatic view that even if we were to employ a new coach none of the changes made elsewhere would really bare fruit until 25/26 season. So I guess you could keep ETH with zero intention of keeping him to make sure all issues have been sorted before bringing a new head coach in.
I don’t like EtH at all and will want him gone today if it was up to me but I’m not mad at this approach. It will also save us a lot of money not having to pay out his salary
if all our new appointments are on gardening leave we’ll into the summer, what change can they really affect to start next season. I’m sure the long term plan is to get rid of ETH and most of the playing squad.
I don’t like EtH at all and will want him gone today if it was up to me but I’m not mad at this approach. It will also save us a lot of money not having to pay out his salary
if all our new appointments are on gardening leave we’ll into the summer, what change can they really affect to start next season. I’m sure the long term plan is to get rid of ETH and most of the playing squad.
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