Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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We're replacing the structure that supports the manager from no marks, to the best money can buy, how is the original point hard to understand?
The new structure is not there to support the manager. It is there to ensure the club has a single direction and a change of manager does not change the club’s playing philosophy.

So this point does not really make sense unless that new structure believe the way to go forward for the club is to get our asses handed to us every match by every crap team out there.
 
It'll be difficult to stomach if we stick with him, even with the lack of amazing options, there's enough that a change should be made. Actually he's doing shit enough, that we're left with no real choice.

Who would you like to see appointed?
 
But he cant be bothered to break out of a slow jog to help out his team mates, after coming on as a sub, while 3-2 up with 20 minutes left.
Is this referring to the moments of the game where everyone on the team was in a low block including Rashford so no one was pressing or?
Rashford has got Erik wrapped around his little finger,before people come at me with him benched last night,just remember he was the first attacking player he brought on.
He wasn't dropped. He'll start on Sunday.
 
I see ‘structure’ has replaced ‘injuries’ as the new buzzword for the ETH fan club. It’s honestly just getting sad now. The club need to put Erik & his fanbase out of their misery.
 
The season summed up in one picture. Nobody taking accountability. Nobody making the extra effort to track an open attacker. Just everyone pointing but nobody doing anything about it. The organisation has been dogshite from ETH. Its getting worse as the season progresses. I can't see how he doesn't get fired, unless there is nobody better available in the market.

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TBF Dalot and McTominay should not be going out to Palmer considering where they're positioned. Someone else should be tracking him but Chelsea worked it well and then he wasn't closed down quickly enough.
 
A very weak article from Whitwell, essentially a puff piece. Every sentence is worded as kindly towards ETH as possible. Have there been any other inside stories today about his future?
Yeah definitely sounds like ETH's agent was one of the sources for that.
 
OK let's take each one individually, well Emery wouldn't swap Villa for Utd right now. Have seen zero links to Enrique at all. Simeone would be seen as too defensive and seemingly has no desire to leave Atletico. The chance to get Ancelotti passed when Fergie retired. Forget Zidane as doesn't want to manage in England. Spalletti has never been linked to us whatsoever. Yes will give you Inzaghi as he's my second choice to Nagelsmann but does he want to leave Italy. Mancini I think is done now in club management. I like O Neil but he wants to build something at Wolves. Carrick I feel needs to manage somewhere in Premier League first.

You’re watching staff drop stable, long-term, employment at clubs that are supposedly better run/in better position than United right now at the drop of a hat - sometimes even burning bridges at said clubs - to join us, and your take away is “xyz wouldn’t trade abc for us” and “123 wants to build something at 789”?
 
I think Uber the right circumstances he would have been great for us. Unfortunately he is ill-equipped to handle what a shitshow we have been, and hasn't done himself any favours with many of his decisions.
 
He wasn't dropped. He'll start on Sunday.

Obviously he was dropped. Not like he needs a midweek rest is it given how little work he puts in.

Wouldn’t be so sure he’ll start on Sunday either given that Antony and Garnacho had positive contributions and Antony offers about 10x the work rate that Rashford.

If he does come back in it’ll just be yet another ten hag pandering blunder
 
I will be absolutely gutted if we don't get Nagelsmann for after the Euros when he is a stand out candidate
Nagelsmann will likely have better offers that he'd choose ahead of us. As will the other absolute top choices. Some people seem to take that as a reason to just keep ETH for another season, whereas I'm the exact opposite.

The reason we would be down the list of preferred clubs for the top managers is because we are such a mess and so far away from challenging. Unless you think ETH himself can turn things around and improve things significantly (and he's shown nothing this season to indicate that), we'll still be in the same position in 12 months time. If you expect the ideal manager will be available in 1 or 2 years time, the best way to get them is to make them confident they can compete at the top with us in a relatively short period of time, not have to come in and spend the first year or two training the absolute basics. So we should get a different manager in first whose playing style and structure fits with how INEOS want us to play, they can move us in that direction, and then in a year or two we'll be a much more enticing option for the top managers.

And of course, the hope would be that the first manager actually takes the step up and proves to be the right option himself after all. It's basically what Arteta seems to have done at Arsenal.
 
i mean yeah some of those were not actually hired as full time managers but lvg and mourinho are not scrubs.
They were both clearly past their best though.

ETH is the only manager we hired who had the right profile. Turns out he didn't work out, but that's always a risk. There's no such thing as a guarantee; successful clubs just move on to the next one.
 
[QUOTE="BenitoSTARR, post: 31796295, member:
Better suited players = better football.
[/QUOTE]

Beautiful bastardization of the Papa John's Pizza tagline. I like it.
 
[QUOTE="BenitoSTARR, post: 31796295, member:
Better suited players = better football.

Beautiful bastardization of the Papa John's Pizza tagline. I like it.
[/QUOTE]
It's still shit pizza though!
 
You’re watching staff drop stable, long-term, employment at clubs that are supposedly better run/in better position than United right now at the drop of a hat - sometimes even burning bridges at said clubs - to join us, and your take away is “xyz wouldn’t trade abc for us” and “123 wants to build something at 789”?

I just feel differently when it comes to getting managers out of clubs compared to recruitment staff
 
Why do they need to be managed by a top manager to appear somewhat competent at football? Many smaller teams look better trained than us. How are they able to manage this without top managers?

United has almost exclusively been a top 6 team in the PL. Unless you believe that our players are significantly better than they are, there is no reason for them to perform at a higher level without the help of a top manager.
 
I will be absolutely gutted if we don't get Nagelsmann for after the Euros when he is a stand out candidate
Likely going back to Bayern. Doubt we get him. We should be looking at tempting someone like Inzaghi or Amorim.
 
Likely going back to Bayern. Doubt we get him. We should be looking at tempting someone like Inzaghi or Amorim.
May also stay as head coach for the German national team if they have a successful Euros.
 
The more you think about ETH the manager, the more you see some outstanding traits and some absolutely abysmal traits.

Strengths
- He’s definitely has courage
- Promotes Youth
- Fearless
- loyal to his preferred players
- Genuinely respects the club
- Surprisingly Flexible when he’s really up against the wall
- His Domestic Cup record is excellent
- Man management skills to favoured players

Weaknesses
- Stubborn beyond reason
- Tactically inflexible most of the time
- Reeks of Nepotism and Favouritism
- Incapable of managing a complete squad
- Tactically poor in the last 20/25 mins and doesn’t know how to close out matches.
- His philosophy is very short term in his match set up and his season planning, for ETH every game is a cup final when sometimes he needs to realise, it’s ok to play for a draw in a tough away game
- Has a lot to learn especially with big club management to be considered truly Elite
- Man Management skills
- Far too rigid in team
Formation, some games require 3412 or 4232 or a flat 433 formation, Eric won’t change for no one!

The real question that only INEOS can answer is do the pros outweigh the cons to justify giving him another year to prove himself?

Good list.

For me his philosophy to go each game all gung ho is a plus! We have the lowest number of draws and the 2 instances that I can recall where we do play much more for a draw, park the bus, we get shot up the most. Vs City and Vs Brentford.

Also the in game managent criticism is questionable. Many here have shown videos and evidence he begs, screams to players to close up shop, play wisely, but they just don''t seem to listen or open to being guided. Didn't he say that at the city game it took 20 minutes before players started to react to his instructions from the line?

I also think his man management cannot be questioned. He never attacked Ronaldo for instance, even after he detonated several bombs in his face. He kept Sancho out of the limelight, out of any question and was willing for him to leave for 3 months in a time when we desperatly needed him. The players also do seem to like him and noises about training too much, don't seem right. We had several games, the Chelsea one the latest, where players still fight for him when under Ole, it was just a bunch of extras in The Walking Dead.

He has strange kind of character, that I agree. But wasn't it Rashford who said last year he liked this new kind of approach? Didn't we blame Ole, other managers for being too soft on this group? In Erik I do believe we have the right balance of tough love and arm around the shoulder. He finds the good mix for this group. Whether that works when some questionable influences will be gone, I don''t know but for the group we had, the troubles spawned by Sancho, Ronaldo, Ten Hag was nothing but praisyworthy about it imo.

Indeed, we need to improve on the players we have in a number of positions and certainly we need more depth. But I just find the constant calls (ging back years now) ''we'll never get anywhere/win the league/be a top side again etc until we get rid of 99% of these lazy cnuts'' a bit pointless, knee jerk and petty. We have a shit season and suddenly the players are the major problem (yet when we have a decent season they're alright), or there's some sort of infectious negative culture that every new signing is immediately stricken with. And we simply must jettison most of the current players to rid ourselves of it.

The truth is most of the current squad are good players, there's no reason why most or at least a fair amount of them can't be part of a successful side/squad under the right manager/set-up.

Care to name wich ones? For me it seems Bruno, Shaw and Rashford, maybe Casemiro and Martinez are the top pick but in the end, not good enough. Maybe Shaw but he is injured a lot. Garnacho, Mainoo are good but rookies and you cant expect a 45 game run from them.

This squad is capable of a good run, good finish if they are all fit. Good enough for top 4? I doubt it. We managed top 3 when other big clubs have troubles. The current level in the PL is insane. The top 3 after 30 played, have 2, 4 and 3 losses respectively. Last season when we finished 3rd we had 9 losses after 38 played...

At this moment, with our injury list, as @BenitoSTARR showed, we are punching above our weight in P6. Looking at P4 is just wishfull thinking. But I'm happy to be proven wrong and interested to read wich of the current squad you think is good enough for a succesfull set up (and also, what do you consider a succesful setup. Top 4? Beating City for p1?)
 
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Who do you feel doesn't meet the requirements?
It’s probably easier to do the reverse and say who I think would survive and suits it pretty well.

Onana
Dalot
Martinez
Shaw (injuries permitting)
Mainoo (developing)
Mount
Garnacho (developing)
Højlund (developing)


AWB (need to see more of him)
Kambwala (developing)
Casemiro (as rotation with someone new)
Bruno (can’t play on half turn)
Diallo (developing)
Rashford (physical profile)


I think honestly there is question marks over the yellow and the rest id say reasonably confident on not being right.
 
it's been proven that sticking with managers after they take a step back can work out sometimes.
??? If it's been proven "it can work out sometimes", surely that's already a sign there's a good chance you probably shouldn't be doing it and gambling with club's future on "sometimes"? How many of those "proven" examples can you name and why it only being Arteta doesn't worry you when it comes to the club going in that direction?
 
Why would Utd want him if Germany have a poor tournament?

I'm of the firm opinion that it doesn't matter if ETH stays or goes, most of the current squad need to feck off too before Utd will come anywhere near winning trophies consistently over a number of years.
The set up we are going to have don't they usually decide the style of play? Just curious. What if it is something ETH cannot deliver or are they just going to sign players that fit the style he wants? There will definitely need to be a big clearout. Think Varane and Casemiro will be gone for differing reasons for certain.
 
I would really like to know how this new structure is going to help or unleash ten hag so much. Genuinely curious.
What is this magic new structure everyone is pinning so much hope on? I can see that that they will get someone in to over see footballing direction and transfers but what is going to help ten hag so much next season working under this new structure?
Suppose it will partly mean, there has to be a list of options, like there has been in past but ignored by the powers that be. Will hope it makes it easier to actually build a team, rather that spending the whole summer going after one player as the price goes up and up. We will just move on to the next on the list. If you do that you don't get rinsed the same as other clubs know they cannot take you for fools.
 
There's nothing to learn from the remaining fixtures that we don't know already. In the highly unlikely event that we go on a run, it would be an anomaly in what would be a 2 year stretch.

Our attacking output has been terrible under EtH with just 43 (-1GD), loweat in the top 13, scored in the league this season and 58 (15GD) total last season, only Villa (51) scored less last term in the top 9.

For me, this points to a serious issue with coaching. With the right coach almost any player can improve to a higher level. You can see this when watching Brighton, for example, individually you could say United have a better squad with like for like better players but they are coached much much better than we are. You can see that every man knows their role in the team and what is expected of them. This doesn't mean that they win every game but they have a solid, clear plan to approach every game.

EtH seems like he has the footballing morals that match Uniteds and I'm sure he has a plan/style but his lack of coaching ability to get that over to the players is obvious to all.

It's a fresh start for United with SJR and his crew coming in, a perfect time for a clean sweep in the dugout. Also, although on gardening leave, I fully believe the new employees will be in contact and be making decisions already.

EtH, I've no ill feelings and I wish you well and with that said, goodbye!
Saw on Sky Sports a couple of days back that Bruno has created the most chances in the PL it was over 80. A top class strikeforce could have taken a few more of them. Then we would all be happy with his number of assists. Although that stat is probably sketchy as most seem to be.
 
It's absolutely baffling to me people still giving this guy the benefit of the doubt.

He is by far and away the worst manager we've had post Fergie, and we've had some terrible ones.

We've all got eyes right? We can see what he's dishing up game after game, right?

He simply has to go.

And this isn't absolving the players of any responsibility, they are all (well, some are) equally as culpable as ETH for our current decline. But he still picks them, he still gives them the tactics to play. We have a team of reserves and academy players to call upon if needed.

Absolutely bizarre stance from some of our fellow Reds.
I will agree he is brutal, but I think Moyes did more damage and set the tone thereafter. Moyes took a winning team down to his level finishing 6 or 7th which was where he usually sat with toffees. You don't take a winning formula and change it. As was in a training session and he stated "this is how they did things at Everton" to have Rio stand up and say, "This is Manchester United, not Everton!"
 
The new structure is not there to support the manager. It is there to ensure the club has a single direction and a change of manager does not change the club’s playing philosophy.

So this point does not really make sense unless that new structure believe the way to go forward for the club is to get our asses handed to us every match by every crap team out there.
If the structure is total confusion and having players out of position, then he pretty much has mastered it.
 
Moyesy
Giggs
Louis Van Ghoul
Mourinho
Solskjear
Carrick
Ragnick
Ten Hag
(yes some were only managing for a few months)

In the end none of these managers could get the team performing well over any significant period. I'm not saying ETH is the answer. But unless we gut the team, i don't think the next manager will get a tune of them either.
Think it is not just the team, it is that the players have been given too much power, going behind the manager back, going to the press or one of their entourage doing it for them. That needs knocking on the head. They have to weed out who is the biggest problem in that department. Thing is it might not too difficult to shuffle off to talk to the likes of Woodward, Arnold etc. I am not sure the ones coming in will be quite as willing to listen to whinging footballer moaning about their lot.
 
Moyesy
Giggs
Louis Van Ghoul
Mourinho
Solskjear
Carrick
Ragnick
Ten Hag
(yes some were only managing for a few months)

In the end none of these managers could get the team performing well over any significant period. I'm not saying ETH is the answer. But unless we gut the team, i don't think the next manager will get a tune of them either.

Yeah but that's too simplistic a view in my opinion.

Moyes failed because SAF had left an ageing, injury-plagued side - and let's face it, SAF was going to be impossible to replace.

LvG was too old / not in it for the long term. I felt had he been ten years younger, he'd have gotten us to a good level eventually. He's probably the only manager who has improved us tactically.

Jose was never a good fit. Some fans never accepted him and his style was just never likely to suit United. Nevertheless, we talk about him 'failing' but he won trophies and finished 2nd behind a team who have systematically cheated for over a decade.

Similar story with OGS. Some fans never accepted him and were waiting to jump all over him and label him a 'failure' at the first sign of trouble. Again, he only really 'failed' in that he could beat a team of cheats to the title. If we're judging on the criteria of finishing 2nd to City and the odd underwhelming season being a failure, then Klopp also fits that bill (I think Klopp is the best manager in the World).

Crucially ALL of these managers also worked with Ed Woodward, who was an incompetent buffoon. I'm not saying Murtough or Arnold are 'good' and they have still made plenty of mistakes, but compared to Woodward they're a dream to work with.

EtH has come in and had everything he's wanted, with reason. The fans were almost unanimously behind him. He's signed about 15 players, all hand selected. He's had 18-months of relatively little pressure from the fans, who have stuck with him. Yet he's probably given us the least reason to be optimistic of ANY manager. We won a League Cup with a very, very soft run but we've barely strung two good performances together in his entire tenure.

Not only that, some of the statistics / results are absolutely damning. Look at our G/D. Look at our shots against. Losing 0-7 to Liverpool. 0-4 to Brentford etc...need I go on....

I like the bloke...he's just not the coach we thought he was unfortunately
 
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Don't care if we concede a world record number of shots at goal or amount of touches in the penalty box, a 1 nil heavily deflected winner from our single shot at goal will suffice.
 
If ETH remains for the next season, main focus on discussion would be - what does he need, in order to succeed?

Obviously new, mobile DM, new CB and fullback, striker. That's 200 million right there.

Also he needs to move on from Rashford and Mctominay - don't see it happening.
 
A nice bloke but a fraud of a manager who has made a career out of nearly beating Spurs
The only real difference between everyone on here in this thread is how long it took for people to realize EtH is not what we thought he was. A very tiny percentage of posters actually watched Ten Hag's Ajax and pretty much everyone made up their minds on him solely on that one cup run from half a decade ago. Which not only proved to be an outlier but it's such a long time in football that plenty of managers and players have gone from being hot prospects to nobodies in the same time frame. And yet you still have people clinging onto that result, using it as evidence of EtH being a good coach. You can see some are still desperate for it to be true so they'd rather believe this "structure" will change the way we set up on the pitch and will improve everything around the manager, just so he could perform better and keep his job. In reality it would be like buying better players around Antony to make him perform better, just to avoid selling him because we can't admit he's not very good.
 
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