Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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JPRouve said:
I have heard enough head coaches suggest that they dream of the manager structure to believe that he could easily be one of them. Now when they actually get it, they may also realize that it's not a good fit for them but I wouldn't state that because they didn't work like that before, they don't have the ambition to do it.
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Do you think that the narrative of Ten Hag wanting more control because he didn't trust the existing structure (perfectly plausible given the situation and rather public warnings from his countryman LVG) - is false in that case?
 
JPRouve said:
I like the idea of him being "demoted" to head coach but I don't like the way things have been framed lately, he clearly stated that he demanded a pretty high level of control which includes control over transfers. I'm fine with a change of mind but he wanted to be way more than a head coach and got it.
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Has he ever had full control at his previous clubs? If anything just being a head coach should be something he is used to.
 
We need to change our thought process now. It should no longer be about switching manager asap, signing players the new manager asks for and expect instant results, whether good or bad to see if it works anymore (and we do it again if it didn't). If Erik stays, he does what a head coach does while INEOS keeps hiring capable people and setup a good structure behind it. Making sure the club can still run even without the manager - identify the correct players, set up a proper culture, have people knowledgeable about football running the club, etc. And when the day comes they want to sack Erik, it will only be a head coach they need to replace. Not the entire footballing side of the club because that's what the past managers were, they had complete control over the direction of the club. Old school and totally dependant on one person, a single point of failure. If it hasn't been working for a decade, chances are it will never work.
 
Generally I don't think you should read too much into post-match comments because it's what's said privately that matters, but he's doing himself no favours at all by consistently coming across as deluded. Those quotes last night about dominating the ball and opponent, nobody sane could genuinely believe that.
 
Andersonson said:
I doubt there are even 5 managers who would get more points with this squad.

Give the new board time to find a replacement. Someone like Potter would only delay our chances of success
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And what if the new guys actually want Potter or Southgate?
 
flameinthesun said:
Has he ever had full control at his previous clubs? If anything just being a head coach should be something he is used to.
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No he never had full control or anything close to it. And yes he is a head coach that's what he is used to but according to his words he demanded a level of control that is superior to what head coaches have.
 
VP89 said:
Do you think that the narrative of Ten Hag wanting more control because he didn't trust the existing structure (perfectly plausible given the situation and rather public warnings from his countryman LVG) - is false in that case?
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Yes I think that it's false. LVG didn't work under the same structure and head coaches routinely work for clubs that are messier than United. I mean just look at two of his previous employers Ajax and Bayern have routinely been absolute messes in the past decade.
 
VP89 said:
I'M BACK IN LADS :drool::drool:

Seriously though - the 2nd tweet makes sense to me.
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It would if he was actually good at coaching and his only shortcoming was transfers / squad building. He seems to be getting the fundamentals wrong in terms of tactics and what we see on the pitch is actually much worse than his transfer record. He has actually done fairly well in terms of improving the overall quality of the team by signing decent players and promoting the best youngsters in a timely manner.
 
INEOS have to make a call this summer. Either the players needs an overhaul or the manager needs changing. (its possible it can be both) Ten hag wont be a success with these players. needs to be a model of hungrier younger players with the right attitude, and do what is being asked of them. you cant press with lazy forwards (rashford) and a back line without pace (maguire). It doesnt have to be "football manager" buying the biggest names.
 
Pros:
Last season (but isn’t anything that Ole wasn’t capable of tbh, and that post-League Cup final form—that has extended into the entirety of this season—has been woeful).

Discipline of players, although some inconsistencies in treatment are becoming glaring now.

Establishing Mainoo and Garnacho is a big plus.

Love Martinez, but the injury proneness is shocking now.

Cons (including all of the asterisks above):
Tactics
Performances
Recruitment
Post match interview comments
All comments pretty much!
Charisma
In-game management

Yikes. All of the fundamentals of football management!
 
If ETH somehow stays (ludcrious based on the season we’ve had so far), then some serious player turnover in the summer must be done. I’m talking 6-7 players out and 6-7 new players in.

And even then, the pressure will be insane from day one of the season.

Are we sure this new development isn’t just the cliche dreaded vote of confidence?
 
JPRouve said:
That's why limiting ETH's influence and also imposing a guideline makes sense on the short term. Unless Ashworth and Wilcox know exactly in which direction they need to go in terms of the head coach and the players turnover, it's not necessarily a good idea to rush into making immediate changes for the sake of it.

And I get that people are frustrated, they want to see things improve and the trust in ETH is gone but the correct moves aren't necessarily the more palatable.
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I agree 100% with this assessment.
 
JPRouve said:
That's why limiting ETH's influence and also imposing a guideline makes sense on the short term. Unless Ashworth and Wilcox know exactly in which direction they need to go in terms of the head coach and the players turnover, it's not necessarily a good idea to rush into making immediate changes for the sake of it.

And I get that people are frustrated, they want to see things improve and the trust in ETH is gone but the correct moves aren't necessarily the more palatable.
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Yep. I don't think he's going to get it right in terms of coaching the defensive work, and ideally would want him replaced. But the right move is probably to give him another year while we sort shit out above him, and let the people who we are waiting a year to bring in to actually be able to do their jobs properly. That's following the process.
 
Judas said:
It will be a ridiculously interesting summer of exits and arrivals if we do the unthinkable and stick with Ten Hag.
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It will be hard enough to attract players without Champions League football.

Why would. a top player want to join MUFC with Ten Hag in charge? You can smell the bad vibes from a mile away.
 
bosnian_red said:
Yep. I don't think he's going to get it right in terms of coaching the defensive work, and ideally would want him replaced. But the right move is probably to give him another year while we sort shit out above him, and let the people who we are waiting a year to bring in to actually be able to do their jobs properly. That's following the process.
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I don't see why going into that season with ETH rather than any other coach is a good idea though. We could give McKenna or another young coach a shot at it, if our intention is to get rid of ETH (rightly so) then we may as well give something else a try even if it has 1 in 10 shot at succeeding.
 
bosnian_red said:
Yep. I don't think he's going to get it right in terms of coaching the defensive work, and ideally would want him replaced. But the right move is probably to give him another year while we sort shit out above him, and let the people who we are waiting a year to bring in to actually be able to do their jobs properly. That's following the process.
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Why is that right? What “process” are we following? You admit the manager is never going to work but the process is to give him more time to prove you correct?
 
Gotta believe he is being given the chance to take us to the final now, while we look for his replacement in the background.

Season has otherwise been over for months, he should've been sacked on multiple occasions going back to before Christmas. INEOS know they need to get their first big decision right so they will be doing their due diligence. He is basically dead man walking.

Lose to Coventry though and they may as well announce it Bayern-style.
 
tenpoless said:
If INEOS keeps him then we can be sure the revolution will begin from the players. We might see a clearance sale soon.
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Won't be easy due to FFP.

We have seen how hard it has been to get rid of players last season. They stock has only fallen more since then.

The club have to get Casemiro, Varane, Maguire and Rashford of the books and hope there is a taker for McTominay who go down as 100% profit in terms of FFP book value.
 
The weird thing is about ETH, is in comparison to pretty much every previous manager aside from maybe LVG, I actually really like the guy and am not desperate for him to be sacked. Do I think his tactics and are causing massive problems? Most certainly. Do I also think he's being forced to deal with absolutely shite professionals and footballers also and on top of that an unprecedented injury crisis, disrupting what consistency he's trying to achieve? Most certainly. The truth about rather he's the right man for the job perhaps lies somewhere in the middle the more I'm thinking about the past few years and how truly dismally the club has been run.
 
If you have no faith in your head coach to actually coach the team, it is insane behaviour to keep him.
 
IRN-BRUno said:
Generally I don't think you should read too much into post-match comments because it's what's said privately that matters, but he's doing himself no favours at all by consistently coming across as deluded. Those quotes last night about dominating the ball and opponent, nobody sane could genuinely believe that.
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Very true, and it's good to remind ourselves.

I'm exaggerating here but generally I feel this squad is so weak mentally that any criticism made in public sends them into a spiral of mental health issues. So I do feel the manager is having to deal with a lot internally which I hope INEOS can help solve during the summer.
 
The Athletic piece basically reads as “Ten Hag is safe for now because Berrada and Ashworth aren’t there yet”

I also didn’t get the part about INEOS feeling that the appointments above Ten Hag are enough for one summer.

A) surely it’s better to do 100% of the job than 90% of it

B) won’t the new people coming want their own manager to work with. Why bother keeping him just to sack him in a year anyway
 
bosnian_red said:
Yep. I don't think he's going to get it right in terms of coaching the defensive work, and ideally would want him replaced. But the right move is probably to give him another year while we sort shit out above him, and let the people who we are waiting a year to bring in to actually be able to do their jobs properly. That's following the process.
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What a great message to send out that'd be. Zero accountability for failure
 
gaffs said:
Not often you get a decent caller on a TalkSport show, but this guy came with the facts....

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Can't argue with that! but again we are putting all the blame on the manager and letting the players, board and owners off completely free.

Get a new manager in and give all the players a clean slate! that's sounds familiar :rolleyes:
 
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