Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[DWelbz19]

It sends out the message that we are going to be patient and make the right moves rather than be pressured into panic decisions while we again try to sprint for instant success rather than following the smart process and understanding what the best route is.

But we can do this and still clearly let go a manager who is offering a net negative to the club.

If you think we need to wait until every piece of the puzzle is perfectly aligned in terms of back room senior staff, why don’t we sack the underperforming manager and sign a very clearly illustrated interim manager to take charge until Wilcox and Ashworth are in place to make the decisions you want them to make?

I just don’t get why in your hypothetical perfect process, ten Hag still walks around scot free doing absolutely nothing of value.

 

[Amir]

Can't argue with that! but again we are putting all the blame on the manager and letting the players, board and owners off completely free.

We've just had a part-change in ownership and there are also changes to the board... So there's not much point in talking about the clear failings we've suffered.

Meanwhile, the problems on the pitch are ongoing and the fingerprint of the manager just isn't there.

 

[dirkey]

I refuse to think ETH is telling McTominay to be braindead or Dalot to let his man get past him. Our players have no game management in them, you can't really coach that.

So, the same mctominay who used sit deep with Fred, is now deployed tactically differently, and can't remember how to sit deep? That's on him, and not a tactical decision from the idiot in charge?

 

[stefan92]

Win trophies, but not the Champions League just a Champions League spot

Infuriating if true. Any player who doesn't think he can and/or doesn't aim to win the CL thereby proves that he doesn't have the mindset to play for an elite club and has to be gotten rid off asap for not being up to standards.

Same of course applies to a manager who thinks this is a good mindset of a player.

 

[bond19821982]

I would really like him to explain why are we so open every single game . I don't want to assume it's the players because these players have played in a low block before . You can't have people bombing forward on 90th minute when we have the lead. You are playing away against one of the biggest clubs in England . Hoe naive can you get ?

 

[erikcred]

Can Ten Hag be blamed for the goal conceded v Brentford plus the 2 late goals late night ?

Depends. Does he get credit for our goals?

It’s happened a lot this season where we score and we automatically give up a chance immediately after kick off . We’ve been made to pay a few times but we’ve been left off the hook more often than not .

This season, it’s usually because we've just scored against the run of play or through a moment of magic. We don’t really have a strategy to control games, so the game reverts to normality right after kickoff. If this keeps happening all season, it can’t be just the players losing concentration every time. The team as a whole doesn’t really have a proper plan. That’s on the manager.

 

[gajender]

Win trophies, but not the Champions League just a Champions League spot

Infuriating if true. Any player who doesn't think he can and/or doesn't aim to win the CL thereby proves that he doesn't have the mindset to play for an elite club and has to be gotten rid off asap for not being up to standards.

Same of course applies to a manager who thinks this is a good mindset of a player.

Ten Hag is clearly talking about it in this seasons context .

 

[Zlatan 7]

The big games suit us in general as it allows us to shell up and play on the counter. The only caveat is that we don't go too far behind our we get decimated. But against weaker teams, who adopt those tactics themselves and ask us the question of what we've got, is where it becomes clear we don't have much of a plan.

I agree with this. But the players are good enough to thoroughly smash Luton and Sheffield Uniteds of the league you’d think. And even if not getting 3 points the game shouldn’t be that much of a struggle so consistently

 

[Ace of Spades]

He needs to go, and I am sure will be sacked but at the end of the season. I also think we will lose more games by then, so this is not even the worst yet.

We still have Liverpool and Arsenal and Newcastle etc, to still go against.

 

[The Mitcher]

Dalot has been good all season, I was only referring to last night. Who the hell could he have brought on for Dalot? We had 2 centre back injuries, during the game alone

Nonsense. He's at best mediocre. He's been as crap as the rest.

 

[Marcelinho87]

I don’t disagree that McTominay is dire but Casemiro was horrendous, he was playing like a 60 year old man.

Who are the alternatives? Amrabat is shite too.

it’s clear as day none of this on any specific midfielder, Casemiro plays like a 60 year old because the tactics are shambolic he’s expected to cover the ground of 4 people, the tactics are unsustainable.

Stick any of the midfield in a functioning team and they would look loads better.

 

[Robbie Boy]

The big games suit us in general as it allows us to shell up and play on the counter. The only caveat is that we don't go too far behind our we get decimated. But against weaker teams, who adopt those tactics themselves and ask us the question of what we've got, is where it becomes clear we don't have much of a plan.

Basically Ole all over again. Both of them seriously lack tactical acumen.

 

[Laurencio]

If anybody can translate Dutch (Apple can’t), I would love to know what they are saying on Ajaxtalk.nl forum.

1.Tadic made Ten Hag look good.

2. We were idiots for letting him buy players, he is notoriously crap at it.

3. He needs to learn that he can't play like in the Netherlands in the Premier league, the demands on the squad are too great compared to the fixture list over there.

4. Ten Hag improves hard working no frill players of a certain level, and does well with youth - players above that, "stars", are not his cup of tea.

5. We have a shit squad

6. The Dutch league is his level - bring him back. They love him for Ajax - being spoken about on par with Michels, Van Gaal. Elite for that level and players on that level.

Honestly surprised at some of the comments on there.

From when he signed as manager.

Something inside me says that Ten Hag is going to do a "Lowietje". In other words, shopping for players he knows and/or has worked with (or who he would have liked to buy at Ajax). Richarlison, Malacia, Timber, Antony and working again with Donny.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Ten Hag improves hard working no frill players of a certain level, and does well with youth - players above that - "stars" are not his cup of tea.

Zlatan mentioned this some months back

 

[soapythecat]

If he was serious about getting results and playing better then Rashford would be not seen for a long time after his recent performances, but ETH keeps picking him or bringing him on. Ditto Fernandes. These two have hung very manager before him out to dry and are doing so again. Drop em and let them watch - even if we get beat. Can’t be any worse. How Diallo could offer less than Rashford and Antony right now is mysterious.
ETH needs to go yesterday, but this team are a serious bunch of fannies.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Apparently in Whitwell's article later, he'll mention some other clubs are interested in taking ten Hag? Who we thinking?

Bayern and Barca are mentioned.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Bayern and Barca are mentioned.

It would be pretty insane if he fell into one of those gigs.

 

[Woziak]

Rashford, Bruno and Garnacho are key to his tactics. We'd look worse without Bruno, yet everyone wants him dropped and doesn't realise this. He's literally the brains of the team, not Ten Hag.

I think Bruno been Meh to awful this season but I don’t want him gone, he’s clearly playing through injuries and hasn’t had a proper rest for a long time, he needs to be told that he will be an important part of the club going forward but he will be demoted to Vice Captain and United will be buying a young Attacking midfielder to learn from him, helping him with his playing time.
I’m sorry I’m a huge Marcus fan, but it’s clear he doesn’t want to be here, he’s a private lad and maybe just wants to be less in the limelight. We must make some huge decisions this summer and the second biggest after sacking ETH is to sell Marcus Rashford. PSG will not get Raphael Laeo this summer but Marcus could easily be bought for £100m, yes we demand £100m as he has 4 years left on his contract.

We should already be talking to Julian Naigelsman, his stock will go up after the Euros mark my word. He’s available now, we should tell him he can decide now who he wants the club to pursue as transfer targets but the club will be selling the following; M Rashford(80m),
M Greenwood(30m), Casemiro(30m), DVB(5m), F Pellistri(10m), Varane(Released), Amrabat(Sent back), Martial(Released), V Lindelof(15m), T Malacia(Released), B Williams(5m), F Pellistri(12m) - (12 players/£175m)

Tell him he can decide on the following player's; H Maguire, Eriksen, S Mctominay, J Sancho, Hanibal, AWB and Antony but we need to be wary of the homegrown rule. Possibly sells Eriksen, Scott , Hanibal and Antony
For another £70m
Explain we will add £245m to the £175m generated and he has £ transfer budget but he must be in line with who we are currently looking at plus any recommendations he has including a potential new captain.

Summer Transfers
Naigelsman / New Coach
J Kimmich / New Captain CM/DM/RB- £60m

J Branthwaite/ CB - £65m
J Todibo /CB - Loan to buy £40m (7m)
J Frimpong /RB - £35m
M Guitetez /LB -Loan with an obligation £25m(3m)
R Barkley (Free)

A Onana DM - 50m
J Neves or. F Wirtz /AM/RW/LW - £95m
M Olise/ RW - £50m
I Toney / CF - £65m
Total £430m


This will never happen in a million years but that’s how radical INEOS would have to be this summer ;

Starting 11 of ;
4231 formation
A Onana J Frimpong , Branthwaite, Martinez, Shaw
Kimmich(DM/CM), K Mainoo/DLP/CM), Bruno, F Wirtz, Toney, Garnaucho

second 11
A Bayinder, D Dalot, J Todibo, H Maguire, M Gutierrez, A Onana(DM), R Barckley(CM), M amount(AM), Olise, Hojlund, Sancho

This will never ever happen but this is what’s needed, Naigelsman as national coach would have a great chance of recruiting Kimmich and F Wirtz.

 

[Marwood]

Think he has to go because nothing has changed month after month. The basic tactical problems remain the same.

The only thing I can see he's influenced as a manager is the high press. We're pretty good at that.

But how difficult is that to do in isolation? Pretty straightforward I'd say.

Balancing the high press with the rest of the team is obviously trickier and something we clearly struggle with. Something he clearly struggles with. Its why we get all the shots conceded problems.

 

[The Mitcher]

1 point from Brentford and Chelsea. Enjoy your fecking night.

Man, he thought he had you

 

[RuudTom83]

I would really like him to explain why are we so open every single game . I don't want to assume it's the players because these players have played in a low block before . You can't have people bombing forward on 90th minute when we have the lead. You are playing away against one of the biggest clubs in England . Hoe naive can you get ?

In lots of ways the team plays like it's captain. The chaos pinball style is Bruno's trademark and the biggest factor in lots of the crazy results (good and bad) this season.

EtH takes a huge percentage of the blame (rightly so) but next in line has to be the captain.

 

[11101]

So, the same mctominay who used sit deep with Fred, is now deployed tactically differently, and can't remember how to sit deep? That's on him, and not a tactical decision from the idiot in charge?

A Premier League footballer should be able to manage his game in the 94th minute without any input from a manager.

 

[dwd]

When he gets sacked will Old Trafford be known as The Emptyhag?

 

[afrocentricity]

Basically Ole all over again. Both of them seriously lack tactical acumen.

You my friend, are obsessed with Ole

 

[Red00012]

Nonsense. He's at best mediocre. He's been as crap as the rest.

He’s been our player of the season .

 

[Sarni]

Can Ten Hag be blamed for the goal conceded v Brentford plus the 2 late goals late night ?
Don’t get me wrong I want him sacked but some of our players are bottlers to be honest. It’s happened a lot this season where we score and we automatically give up a chance immediately after kick off . We’ve been made to pay a few times but we’ve been left off the hook more often than not .

We should have conceded long before we did against Brentford and likewise yesterday. We conceded almost 60 shots across these two games largely due to insane set up.

 

[JPRouve]

When he gets sacked will Old Trafford be known as The Emptyhag?

It's going to be the first good joke used on Bluemoon.

 

[NK86]

They won't depend on manager no for the squad turnover. But the manager is part of that turnover, whether he stays or goes. That's a huge decision, especially getting the right next guy in. If Wilcox and Ashworth aren't leading the search, aren't leading the rebuilding, then what the feck did we hire them for and what are we waiting a year for? It's illogical. Fans should be patient because they came in and are setting up a structure. You can't snap your fingers and have everyone start, you can't expect them to break a bunch of contractual laws, if the guy doesn't start til next year then it is what it is. We'll do some work, but not major things as the guy who is responsible for that stuff hasn't started yet. Unfortunately, our main rebuild is on hold and can't fully get started.

We will see. No organization waits a whole year, especially one which has been taken over by a new entity, to start the new process asap. All the painful points will be handled asap. You really think something like “gardening leave” for a couple of employees will prevent Ineos from pushing through the changes they need is necessary?

We will see, but I will be shocked if they do this. No organization, especially as big as United, will write off a whole year keeping a key personnel (in our case manager) in place even if they are not up to the mark. If Wilcox and Ashworth cannot provide official feedback, you can bet your left nut they will provide it in an unofficial capacity.

Unless Ineos believe in Eth and want to give him another year under a new structure, Eth is a goner at the end of the season.

 

[JPRouve]

We should have conceded long before we did against Brentford and likewise yesterday.

You expected us to concede before the game started?

 

[mu4c_20le]

He’s been our player of the season .

Jesus, our seasons been that bad?

 

[Irwin99]

I think we'll finish the season with about sixty points. Not a good tally at all.

As i said in another thread the only way you can rationalize that is by saying that we're still in the middle of a rebuild (yes, another one!) and that someone like Arteta got 56 and 61 points in his first two seasons at Arsenal which is pretty dismal too. People will say Arteta was implementing a playstyle and showing improvement and all but I bet there was some serious resolve needed from the Arsenal board not to sack him.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Bayern and Barca are mentioned.

It sounds kinda insane yeah but the points @Laurencio made in point 4 sound like he'd fit in well - https://www.redcafe.net/threads/eri...united-manager.470032/page-2156#post-31795051

Bayern are notoriously anti-ego, and Barcelona love promoting and relying on homegrown talent, particularly now their finances are in the pits.

 

[eire-red]

I actually don't even know anymore.

The main issue with replacing a manager is usually a lack of viable options, but by all accounts there are some decent options available this summer?

What have we got to lose?

 

[croadyman]

I actually don't even know anymore.

The main issue with replacing a manager is usually a lack of viable options, but by all accounts there are some decent options available this summer?

What have we got to lose?

Try telling that to posters on social media who repeatedly keep saying and replace him with who?

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Can't argue with that! but again we are putting all the blame on the manager and letting the players, board and owners off completely free.

Get a new manager in and give all the players a clean slate! that's sounds familiar

Nobody thinks that - that's just a convenient excuse created by ETH's defenders to absolve him for all his failings this season.

 

[Member 58925]

I think we'll finish the season with about sixty points. Not a good tally at all.

As i said in another thread the only way you can rationalize that is by saying that we're still in the middle of a rebuild (yes, another one!) and that someone like Arteta got 56 and 61 points in his first two seasons at Arsenal which is pretty dismal too. People will say Arteta was implementing a playstyle and showing improvement and all but I bet there was some serious resolve needed from the Arsenal board not to sack him.

Another one implies there's been one. It took Arsenal what 3 years to get down to 2-3 players max the manager didn't buy or promote? This needs to happen for the next manager

 

[eire-red]

Try telling that to posters on social media who repeatedly keep saying and replace him with who?

I fell of the De Zerbi hype a bit this season because of the results, but watched them vs Liverpool and they're so far ahead of us in terms of being a modern team. MacAllister and Caicedo leaving, Ferguson and Pedro's goals drying up have made this season very difficult for them.

Nagelsmann, Tuchel, Enrique, Amorin.. even Unai Emery I think would jump at the chance to join us. At least we'd win the Europa League next season!

 

[croadyman]

I think Bruno been Meh to awful this season but I don’t want him gone, he’s clearly playing through injuries and hasn’t had a proper rest for a long time, he needs to be told that he will be an important part of the club going forward but he will be demoted to Vice Captain and United will be buying a young Attacking midfielder to learn from him, helping him with his playing time.
I’m sorry I’m a huge Marcus fan, but it’s clear he doesn’t want to be here, he’s a private lad and maybe just wants to be less in the limelight. We must make some huge decisions this summer and the second biggest after sacking ETH is to sell Marcus Rashford. PSG will not get Raphael Laeo this summer but Marcus could easily be bought for £100m, yes we demand £100m as he has 4 years left on his contract.

We should already be talking to Julian Naigelsman, his stock will go up after the Euros mark my word. He’s available now, we should tell him he can decide now who he wants the club to pursue as transfer targets but the club will be selling the following; M Rashford(80m),
M Greenwood(30m), Casemiro(30m), DVB(5m), F Pellistri(10m), Varane(Released), Amrabat(Sent back), Martial(Released), V Lindelof(15m), T Malacia(Released), B Williams(5m), F Pellistri(12m) - (12 players/£175m)

Tell him he can decide on the following player's; H Maguire, Eriksen, S Mctominay, J Sancho, Hanibal, AWB and Antony but we need to be wary of the homegrown rule. Possibly sells Eriksen, Scott , Hanibal and Antony
For another £70m
Explain we will add £245m to the £175m generated and he has £ transfer budget but he must be in line with who we are currently looking at plus any recommendations he has including a potential new captain.

Summer Transfers
Naigelsman / New Coach
J Kimmich / New Captain CM/DM/RB- £60m

J Branthwaite/ CB - £65m
J Todibo /CB - Loan to buy £40m (7m)
J Frimpong /RB - £35m
M Guitetez /LB -Loan with an obligation £25m(3m)
R Barkley (Free)

A Onana DM - 50m
J Neves or. F Wirtz /AM/RW/LW - £95m
M Olise/ RW - £50m
I Toney / CF - £65m
Total £430m


This will never happen in a million years but that’s how radical INEOS would have to be this summer ;

Starting 11 of ;
4231 formation
A Onana J Frimpong , Branthwaite, Martinez, Shaw
Kimmich(DM/CM), K Mainoo/DLP/CM), Bruno, F Wirtz, Toney, Garnaucho

second 11
A Bayinder, D Dalot, J Todibo, H Maguire, M Gutierrez, A Onana(DM), R Barckley(CM), M amount(AM), Olise, Hojlund, Sancho

This will never ever happen but this is what’s needed, Naigelsman as national coach would have a great chance of recruiting Kimmich and F Wirtz.

Yeah so true it won't but superb post nonetheless

 

[mu4c_20le]

Can't argue with that! but again we are putting all the blame on the manager and letting the players, board and owners off completely free.

Get a new manager in and give all the players a clean slate! that's sounds familiar

Funny because the manager seems to get all the credit for last season's miraculous 3rd finish and a trophy. Rarely do we ever hear about how great rashford and bruno were and all that

 

[kouroux]

This squad literally finished 3rd and got to two cup finals last year, which proves in the right shape, with the right tactics and manager, they're capable of doing something resembling success. Sure, they won't win a PL or CL but they're not as shit as everyone like to make them out to be, and at the moment Ten Hag has them playing like they're lucky to be in the league.

Despite those accomplishments, the football was still generally broken and unenjoyable