Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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I would like to know exactly what is wrong with Malacia, only information we've had is that he had knee surgery in the summer and then never recovered, seems to have had half a dozen set backs?

Given we signed Mount knowing he was recovering from a pelvic injury, and Hojlund and Amrabat knowing they were having back issues at the time.

It's very sus to lose players for virtually whole seasons (Mount and Malacia) when they've literally just signed.
 
Sarni said:
It isn’t really, Klopp’s time at Liverpool was constant progress in performance year over year since the very beginning.
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I wasn’t comparing performance I was comparing a squad dealing with the physical demands.

I would have to look into the data properly to be able to check “constant progress in performance year over year” unfortunately I don’t that time this afternoon/evening.
 
hobbers said:
I would like to know exactly what is wrong with Malacia, only information we've had is that he had knee surgery in the summer and then never recovered, seems to have had half a dozen set backs?

Given we signed Mount knowing he was recovering from a pelvic injury, and Hojlund and Amrabat knowing they were having back issues at the time.

It's very sus to lose players for virtually whole seasons (Mount and Malacia) when they've literally just joined the club.
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There was mention of struggling mentally with being out too.

Such a sad season for him after what I felt was a very respectable first one given his price.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
In terms of squad dealing with demands of the more physical game. Yes. The rest is impossible to say without more time.

The point being made is from a physical perspective there are similarities.

I’ll be honest my heart isn’t in this discussion much.

But I’m glad at least someone else is aware of how normal seasons operate.

The point here is we’re not doing anything remarkably different to what we should be. So I’m not sure it’s fair to crucify Ten Hag over it.
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It is very possible to say that Ten Hag is not on the same trajectory at Man United as Klopp was at Liverpool. In fact, it is irrefutable that he isn't. And we do not a second of more time to know this.

And if your heart isn't in this discussion, maybe stop posting stuff like that.

I do agree on everything else. The quote about not training is normal, nothing to rage about whatsoever.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
I wasn’t comparing performance I was comparing a squad dealing with the physical demands.

I would have to look into the data properly to be able to check “constant progress in performance year over year” unfortunately I don’t that time this afternoon/evening.
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You don't really have to look that deeply. He took over when they were mid-table in October 2015 and lost virtually all top performers from the team that finished runners-up in 13-14, including losing Gerrard prior to 15-16, finished 8th and reached Europa League final and League Cup final in his first season (losing both of them to Sevilla and City respectively), got them to a +16 points improvement in his first full season getting top 4, same league finish the year after while also getting to Champions League final (losing to Real Madrid), then got them properly into title race (it's actually mad that they did not win it as they got 97 points and won 9 in a row to close out the season) in 18-19 while winning Champions League, and won the league in 19-20.

Basically between 2015 and 2020 every single season was better than the one before which got them to win both league and CL during that period.

That people are even questioning Klopp's record at Liverpool and point him out as someone who 'struggled a lot initially' is madness.
 
FortunaUtd said:
It is very possible to say that Ten Hag is not on the same trajectory at Man United as Klopp was at Liverpool. In fact, it is irrefutable that he isn't. And we do not a second of more time to know this.

And if your heart isn't in this discussion, maybe stop posting stuff like that.

I do agree on everything else. The quote about not training is normal, nothing to rage about whatsoever.
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I’ll trust Sarni’s recollection of Klopp’s history.

My heart isn’t up for another full on argument over what I felt was a fairly straightforward comment that the similarities in a) how the squad managed the injuries and b) how many muscle injuries etc there were is scarily similar.

I appreciate on a second reading how someone may wish to interpret that but I wasn’t trying to suggest anything other than how the squads physically struggled and how they were dealt with appears to be remarkably similar.
Sarni said:
You don't really have to look that deeply. He took over when they were mid-table in October 2015 and lost virtually all top performers from the team that finished runners-up in 13-14, including losing Gerrard prior to 15-16, finished 8th and reached Europa League final and League Cup final in his first season (losing both of them to Sevilla and City respectively), got them to a +16 points improvement in his first full season getting top 4, same league finish the year after while also getting to Champions League final (losing to Real Madrid), then got them properly into title race (it's actually mad that they did not win it as they got 97 points and won 9 in a row to close out the season) in 18-19 while winning Champions League, and won the league in 19-20.

Basically between 2015 and 2020 every single season was better than the one before which got them to win both league and CL during that period.

That people are even questioning Klopp's record at Liverpool and point him out as someone who 'struggled a lot initially' is madness.
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Thank you for saving me the time there!

Absolutely then we can agree Klopp improved year on year based on that account.

As I said it wasn’t what I was suggesting that Ten Hag was doing more that they are/were suffering from similar circumstances injury wise as the squad adapted to the demands.
 
NLunited said:
Agree. It is one factor out of many. Yet, Liverpool was poor for a while without Virgil Van Dijk. Licha is about that important for us.
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I suppose it’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it, but our GD has been better this season without Licha.
 
I didn't fecking realise we were playing Chelsea tonight and Pool on Sunday. Not sure he'll survive the weekend to be honest.
 
Blood Mage said:
I didn't fecking realise we were playing Chelsea tonight and Pool on Sunday. Not sure he'll survive the weekend to be honest.
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Zero risk for him even if we lost 6-0 tonight and 10-0 on Sunday. He’s the safest manager in Premier League.
 
DSG said:
I suppose it’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it, but our GD has been better this season without Licha.
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He does a lot more than just defending. He is supposed to start attacks and support the midfield. Surely you have noticed how important Martinez is for the style of play and the effect he has on the style of play. You can put Maguire, Evans or Lindelof in and they can replace some of his defensive duties but none of them can even dream of doing all the extra stuff Martinez does.
 
Stadjer said:
He does a lot more than just defending. He is supposed to start attacks and support the midfield. Surely you have noticed how important Martinez is for the style of play and the effect he has on the style of play. You can put Maguire, Evans or Lindelof in and they can replace some of his defensive duties but none of them can even dream of doing all the extra stuff Martinez does.
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It heavily exagerrated the effect Martinez on our football. Other teams seem to manage fine with worse CBs on the ball than Evans, Lindelof and Maguire.
 
Stadjer said:
He does a lot more than just defending. He is supposed to start attacks and support the midfield. Surely you have noticed how important Martinez is for the style of play and the effect he has on the style of play. You can put Maguire, Evans or Lindelof in and they can replace some of his defensive duties but none of them can even dream of doing all the extra stuff Martinez does.
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We’re -4 with him on the pitch and +3 with him off. I agree that eye test wise we look better with him in the side. He’s better at passing through the lines than any of our CBs and us good at winning the ball high up the pitch, although Maguire is better IMHO and Varane is his equal at least.

The narrative that he’s our most important and best defender is a popular one, but I don’t think it’s true and the numbers bear that out. I do love his mentality.

In my opinion, a healthy and fit Shaw, followed by Dalot, then Licha, Varane, Maguire, etc. is the order of importance.

It’s popular to heap the blame on our poor performances this season on Licha’s injury woes, like he’s the second coming of Franz Beckenbaur, but it’s just not true.
 
Will be sacked Monday after 2 defeats. He doesn’t deserve to be given anymore time after recent results and performances. He could set this bunch of players up much better to play to their strengths but he doesn’t. Same shit, week in and week out. Next two games are going to be painful to watch. This Chelsea side are so poor too.
 
Doracle said:
Only at United would we have this bizarre situation where we say that the best players are the problem. If we got to a position where we had a CF who scored 25 goals a season and a RW who contributed 30+ GA, had two fullbacks of Shaw’s quality who could stay fit, a Rodri level DM and world class CBs, do you honestly think having Rashford in the side would somehow create a “glass ceiling”?

I’m absolutely convinced that if we got a sensible structure and the correct level of player around him then Rashford would not be “a problem”. I’m less keen on Bruno as a player but he’s also shown that he can do a job when given a more defined role and for Portugal. As such, I’d definitely fix the manager first before making any decision on either.
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Exactlt. Rashford and Bruno are just scapegoats for a problem that isn't their fault.
 
soapythecat said:
Will be sacked Monday after 2 defeats. He doesn’t deserve to be given anymore time after recent results and performances. He could set this bunch of players up much better to play to their strengths but he doesn’t. Same shit, week in and week out. Next two games are going to be painful to watch. This Chelsea side are so poor too.
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We keep hearing this and it isn't happening. Looking more likely that he will resign when INEOS demand he gives up his transfer powers.
 
soapythecat said:
Will be sacked Monday after 2 defeats. He doesn’t deserve to be given anymore time after recent results and performances. He could set this bunch of players up much better to play to their strengths but he doesn’t. Same shit, week in and week out. Next two games are going to be painful to watch. This Chelsea side are so poor too.
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Is this what you want to happen?
 
beggars belief that some people still back this guy

week in week out he serves up shite after shite
 
I just don’t know why he’s so happy for us to have no midfield and concede a million shots a game, numerous cutback goals and seemingly has no answer to it.

He’s got Ole’s back 4 and an injury hit team - but they’re not this shit
 
Gusto just jogging past Garnacho and Chelsea have an unmarked man standing on the edge of the box. How does that happen?
 
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