Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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AFC NimbleThumb said:
Exactly. Any team can get unlucky & lose but what we are witnessing is fundamentally poor coaching. Either, A) He’s telling them to do stuff they can not, in which case tailor the tactic of B) He’s unable to coach a cohesive system full stop. Either way this is not what Ineos should deem acceptable performance.
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Yep. In that aspect it reminds me a lot of LVG's time here.

LVG had three huge problems. Firstly, he couldn't get the players in the team to play the style he wanted. Secondly, he proved unable to buy the players that would allow the team to play how he wanted. And thirdly, he wasn't able to adjust the style or set-up to get the most out of the players that he had. Put all three of those together and we were going nowhere.

ETH seems to be repeating all three issues, albeit the actual playstyle couldn't be more different. LVG just had us controlling the ball aimlessly without any real point to it, just passing the ball around between the defenders and midfielders and expecting our entire attacking threat to just be pulled out of moments of individual brilliance. Whereas ETH doesn't seem to care about controlling the ball at all, or to be more exact he seems to want to control it through individual brilliance instead of actually setting up a system to promote it.
 
TsuWave said:
United has one of the most patient fanbases of any supposed “big club”. In fact, I don’t think there’s any other fanbase as committed to “back the manager” as United’s. I have a theory it’s partially because Ferguson was here so long, and partially because many want to hold on to a childish notion that we’re not like other clubs (the “United way” thing is adjacent to this). A manager doesn’t survive a 7-0 mauling by their biggest rivals anywhere else (top clubs). Here, it was largely “shrugged off”and people just moved on.

One could argue that all the bad managerial appointments we made stayed here long after it was clear it wasn’t going to happen, and a factor in that is how reluctant United fans are to put pressure on the club to change direction/cut ties with managers.

For reference (and yes I’ll quote this again):


We’ve been so shite for so long that smash-n-grab wins are reason for people to come to this thread and declare a guy that has us 29 league games in with a goal difference of 0 should be afforded another season - just to see if it “clicks” - now that we have a “structure”. It’s insane.

Most people here would have been happy with evidence of progression in our football. To say this fanbase doesn’t give managers time/is expecting them to compete right away isn’t even being disingenuous - it's an outright lie.
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For that particular point Manchester United and SAF are a better example since I suspect that SAF himself is the reason behind that mindset. SAF took over United when they were in a relegation playoff spot(19th out of 22 teams), they finished the season 11th and the following season 2nd. It's the 3rd and 4th seasons that were difficult but SAF had money in the bank due to his previous performances with United but also with Aberdeen.

I could be wrong but it sometimes sounds like SAF's story isn't grounded in reality, he did what every other manager in a top club was required to do in order to keep his job which was to hit the ground running and improve the performances of the team drastically. If people really want to use him as an example, the point should be about managers that have performed at a high level for your club, not newly appointed managers that have question marks over their heads.
 
Strange enough, it is hard to say what is wrong. So many things. But starting off form or shit footballer is always bad. Bench big time and have players fight for places again
 
I thought after Liverpool that maybe... but no, there's just absolutely no way I can suffer his "football" for another season. I'm reminded of that now. Absolutely awful game.

He clearly looks lost and out of his depth. Simply not a good enough coach for this level. Better for both sides to part ways at this point. Bring someone else. There's more than Potter and bloody Southgate out there.
 
I just can’t see him surviving. We aren’t seeing enough unfortunately tactics wise.

I enjoy his youth development but that’s not all his doing. United always bring through promising players based on our current academy success.

He can’t communicate with the fans like a Mourinho did for example. I don’t even watch the press conferences anymore honestly.

I just think the club and the culture is just a little beyond him. That’s nothing to be ashamed about he’ll do well somewhere else I’m sure someday.
 
DJ_21 said:
Think it’s harsh calling him mediocre, I think there’s a decent manager in there somewhere. You don’t go to Madrid and batter them with an Ajax team if you haven’t got something about you. For whatever reason just like the last 3/4 managers it hasn’t worked out here so far. It’s true he has the best win rate for us out of previous managers… I’m not defending him by the way. He’s been shocking this season… it’s funny though that people are saying give it Rooney or bring Ole back etc, what have they done to deserve this job :lol: Absolutely nothing. At least ETH won us a trophy and ended our drought. If people are gonna slate him don’t compare him to the likes of Rooney who’s just a shambles of a manager and Ole who also failed here and won nothing… it’s just embarrassing. If we replace him it’s got to be someone like Nagelsmann or even Amorim.
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I would hope anybody saying Rooney or Ole are just talking as a caretaker manager for the rest of the season, not the fulltime manager going forward.

I don't really want a caretaker manager and I hope we can do 'ok' enough that ETH makes it to the end of the season. However if we get many more matches like today I would be tempted to bring in Ole again just to get us through the next couple of months, unless there's somebody better to act as a caretaker (Potter maybe?). I'd rather stick with ETH than go for Rooney though.
 
I would love to wake up on Monday to hear he’s been sacked, it’s the worst football I’ve seen, you’d struggle to find SPL teams that play with as little cohesion as we do, it’s taken the fun out of watching us, usually I’d have a little shout after we scored but today it was a forced one, there is no enjoyment in this prolonged shit.
 
He should be embarrassed after that performance last night. No excuses for the way we played. He gave me hope after that Liverpool win but it’s clear that was a freak performance. Normal service resumed. He needs to leave in the summer.
 
Would he get sacked before the potential cup final if we continue like this the league? No way are we catching Villa or Spurs.
 
TheRedHearted said:
I wanted him to work here but he keeps getting outclassed. He’s gotta go. It’s De Zerbi for me. Premier league proven.

I think De Zerbis Bayern Munich (if he had the team Nagelsmann had) would’ve blown the lid off of what Nagelsmann did.

inzaghi also Id give a chance
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De Zerbi has drawn with Everton , lost to Wolves, hammered 3-0 by Fulham and beaten 5-0 by Roma on aggregate in the last 5 games….but PL proven :rolleyes:
I personally wouldn’t go near him it’s Nagelsmann or Amorim for me .
 
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Hoof the ball said:
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I mean Accrington Stanley can come to the Etihad and miss a chance to score and not win. The problem is Accrington Stanley won’t have 30 shots on goal and break records for most touches in an opponents box. The man is deluded. I’m more pissed off at the performance last night rather than allowing them to equalise
 
Red00012 said:
De Zerbi has drawn with Everton , lost to Wolves, hammered 3-0 by Fulham and beaten 5-0 by Roma on aggregate in the last 5 games….but PL proven :rolleyes:
I personally wouldn’t go near him it’s Nagelsmann or Amorim for me .
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Yep. There my top 2 aswell.
 
Watch us have the game of our lives against Chelsea now. No consistency in performances whatsoever. He has to set them up to play like we did against Liverpool from the start!
 
I find it shocking that there are people here thinking this manager is good enough to continue in his job. Disgraceful to accept this performance from manutd.
 
Red00012 said:
De Zerbi has drawn with Everton , lost to Wolves, hammered 3-0 by Fulham and beaten 5-0 by Roma on aggregate in the last 5 games….but PL proven :rolleyes:
I personally wouldn’t go near him it’s Nagelsmann or Amorim for me .
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Yep. PL proven is irrelevant. Being a proven winner matters. Just look at the managers who actually won the PL. Most did it with their first PL club, but arrived at those after winning leagues elsewhere.
 
Red00012 said:
De Zerbi has drawn with Everton , lost to Wolves, hammered 3-0 by Fulham and beaten 5-0 by Roma on aggregate in the last 5 games….but PL proven :rolleyes:
I personally wouldn’t go near him it’s Nagelsmann or Amorim for me .
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Brighton have been erratic this season but they are still top half and on course for 60 points or thereabouts, despite losing both their midfielders and failing to replace them adequately, and having many injuries to deal with with a relatively short squad lacking quality. He has done well there.
 
I worry he can't read the game. None of his subs seem to be in response to anything that happens on the pitch. Everything seems to be what's pre- planned. Of course there'll be players for fitness reasons you're going to have a pre- plan to give them game time. But he only ever seems to make this type of substitution or when there's been an injury

It's never "hasn't worked out for X, so Y is coming on". It's almost as if how players are actually performing on the field has absolutely no influence over what changes are made. That's worrying for me.
 
Hoof the ball said:
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I hope that's just a bullshit face saving exercise and he doesn't actually think like that. The shots in and of themselves aren't the only problem.

Brentford averaged a shot on our goal every 55 seconds they had control of the ball. They only had 47% possession. So for every minute we cede control of midfield and are flailing around trying to block shots. Is a minute we don't have the ball, control or the opportunity to attack and score ourselves.

It's genuinely bizarre that he's allowed this to continue all season. I mean it's not like we've sacrificed defensive solidity at the back because we play a swashbuckling brand of exciting, attacking football or anything. We're shit going forward as well and one of lowest scoring sides in the top half.

What's the plan?
 
bleedred said:
We will probably draw both or lose to pool and win against Chelsea.

People will see that as turning the corner and hype it up.
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We've turned a few corners under Ten Hag, 4 in fact and ended right back where we started. 6th with a 0 GD.
 
stevoc said:
I hope that's just a bullshit face saving exercise and he doesn't actually think like that. The shots in and of themselves aren't the only problem.

Brentford averaged a shot on our goal every 55 seconds they had control of the ball. They only had 47% possession. So for every minute we cede control of midfield and are flailing around trying to block shots. Is a minute we don't have the ball, control or the opportunity to attack and score ourselves.

It's genuinely bizarre that he's allowed this to continue all season. I mean it's not like we've sacrificed defensive solidity at the back because we play a swashbuckling brand of exciting, attacking football or anything. We're shit going forward as well and one of lowest scoring sides in the top half.

What's the plan?
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I think at this point with his post match comments we need to accept that he is genuinely happy with these performances. We were 3 minutes away from winning the game and it is all he’s going to see. I mean this guy thought we were unlucky to lose to City and that it could have gone either way. Win or draw and we have played brilliantly for him, lose and we were just unlucky.
 
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DJ_21 said:
Think it’s harsh calling him mediocre, I think there’s a decent manager in there somewhere. You don’t go to Madrid and batter them with an Ajax team if you haven’t got something about you. For whatever reason just like the last 3/4 managers it hasn’t worked out here so far. It’s true he has the best win rate for us out of previous managers… I’m not defending him by the way. He’s been shocking this season… it’s funny though that people are saying give it Rooney or bring Ole back etc, what have they done to deserve this job :lol: Absolutely nothing. At least ETH won us a trophy and ended our drought. If people are gonna slate him don’t compare him to the likes of Rooney who’s just a shambles of a manager and Ole who also failed here and won nothing… it’s just embarrassing. If we replace him it’s got to be someone like Nagelsmann or even Amorim.
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For what it's worth mediocre and decent basically mean the same thing.

Acceptable, respectable standard, median quality, OK, average.
 
A lot of people seem to be saying we should keep ETH because there's no one clearly better. Obviously that's taking into account that the likes of Bayern, Liverpool and Barca will also be looking for a new manager and will likely get the higher rated options. They seem to have too high of an expectation of what the new manager has to have achieved.

The big problem with that is that almost every season there are top clubs who are changing manager. This season it'll be Bayern, Liverpool and Barca. Next season it might be Bayern (if the next manager doesn't succeed), City and PSG. The following season it might be Real, Liverpool and Atletico. And so on. The highest rated managers want to continue to be successful, so if we just tread water until we find 'the right one' we will continue being down the pecking order for the best managers.

We simply have to improve. While obviously it would be ideal that the next manager is the one who gets us back to competing at the top, we can't just wait for that. The next manager needs to turn things around, set up the system that the club decides we want to play, train and improve the players, etc so that we can get close to competing again. They may not end up being the one who gets us over the line, but the more they can improve us the better position we are then in for the next manager. And hell, maybe they might just end up being the right one after all.

Just looking in the PL itself, there aren't many managers in the top 10 that I wouldn't take over ETH with the way things have gone this season. Obviously the top three are out of the question, but we could get any of the others if we really wanted. I certainly wouldn't say I was confident in any of them getting us back to the absolute top, but I would hope most would have us in a better position in two years.
 
Why all the focus on our defence?
Only 3 teams have conceded more goals in the PL this season. Arsenal, Liverpool and City.
Based on goals conceded should we be unduly concerned?
The biggest problems are the weakness of our midfield, inability to control games or exert any dominance….and dire goal scoring record.
There’s a yawning gap between Utd and the 5 teams above in the table, when it comes to goals scored.
Only 5 out of the 14 teams below us, have scored fewer goals than us !


.
 
DJ_21 said:
Watch us have the game of our lives against Chelsea now. No consistency in performances whatsoever. He has to set them up to play like we did against Liverpool from the start!
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Chelsea are likely to batter us. Someone is bound to soon with the amount of chances we give away.

There absolutely is consistency in performances and has been all season. Consistently bad. Don't confuse results with performances.
 
DJ_21 said:
He was an highly rated manager before we got him. The 2 main options was him or Pochettino… 1 of thems managed in the prem before and look how well he’s doing with a team that’s spent billions. It’s probably not going to work with ETH and the new owners have a massive decision to make in the summer but whoever they pick needs to be challenging straight away since our fan base don’t give anyone more than 2 seasons.
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No manager needs more than 2 seasons to implement a style and get a team playing the way he wants them to.

We need to get out of the mindset that if we just persevere with a manager for just long enough they'll magically transform into another Fergie.

Manchester United shouldn't have to wait 3-4 years and spend £400-700m to let a manager make us a decent team. If we were on an upward trajectory I could see the argument to give him another season. But other than the first few months of new manager bounce, we've been absolute dogshit results and certainly performance wise for 12 months now.

2 years ago we finished 6th with a GD of 0. Right now we're 6th with a GD of 0. With the players and resources made available to the manager of Man Utd we could and should be better than we currently are after 2 years. We can't afford to piss about anymore and write entire seasons off in the hope a manager can suddenly pull a rabbit out of the hat.
 
From our manager.

"We have to give the team compliments for hanging in the game"


Against Fecking Brentford.
 
DJ_21 said:
Watch us have the game of our lives against Chelsea now. No consistency in performances whatsoever. He has to set them up to play like we did against Liverpool from the start!
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We are very, very consistent. Even the worst teams look good sometimes, and even the best teams have bad games occasionally. Liverpool was an outlier but the Brentford game was very consistent with how we’ve played throughout the season. ETH has seemingly succeeded in spreading the inconsistency myth to pundits and fans but our performance levels are consistently bad.
 
Give him start of next season. Give him another 4/5 players (and at least one fit LB)

Last night was absolutely awful.
 
I have said it before and will say it again. If you can't at least lead Manchester United to qualify for the Champions League, especially when there is a possibility there will be 5 PL places this season, you can have no arguments if you are relieved of your position.
 
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