Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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It really does baffle me how people are totally unwilling to see that he is to blame for this. Are the players good enough? No. Should they be more organised? 100%. Who’s responsible for that? For setting them out and motivating them?

Ten Hag. Get rid. Simple.
 
giggs-beckham said:
Why do people keep saying who is viable to replace him etc? What do you mean by viable? We poached two highly regarded people from rival clubs, that before hand we wouldntve regarded as being viable appointment targets. We did it, apparently because we want the best in class and are determined to get the people in positions that can get us to the top again.
Why wouldn't we apply that same process with the managerial selection? ETH isnt the best and neither is Southgate...those aren't the only two options (a reference to, if its gonna be Southgate I'd rather stick with ETH!) That has been on here the last 2 weeks.
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This has been my point all along too.
who can we get?
Whoever we want , you at least try and in some cases you’ll be successful.

I just hope we actually make the move and don’t do some rose tinted stubborn sticking with the manager routine like we did Jose , Ole etc, we need to be a bit more ruthless.

Even if we win next three games he should be sacked there’s no longevity or sign that in the long term he can keep the club consistently playing well.
 
DSG said:
I mean, just this week a very vocal minority in the Caf lost their mind when I called ETH a mediocre manager… where are they now?

I’m absolutely gutted he hasn’t worked out. A few months ago I was looking at his win record and thinking he might make it. Every other stat goes against him though.
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Think it’s harsh calling him mediocre, I think there’s a decent manager in there somewhere. You don’t go to Madrid and batter them with an Ajax team if you haven’t got something about you. For whatever reason just like the last 3/4 managers it hasn’t worked out here so far. It’s true he has the best win rate for us out of previous managers… I’m not defending him by the way. He’s been shocking this season… it’s funny though that people are saying give it Rooney or bring Ole back etc, what have they done to deserve this job :lol: Absolutely nothing. At least ETH won us a trophy and ended our drought. If people are gonna slate him don’t compare him to the likes of Rooney who’s just a shambles of a manager and Ole who also failed here and won nothing… it’s just embarrassing. If we replace him it’s got to be someone like Nagelsmann or even Amorim.
 
DJ_21 said:
Think it’s harsh calling him mediocre, I think there’s a decent manager in there somewhere. You don’t go to Madrid and batter them with an Ajax team if you haven’t got something about you. For whatever reason just like the last 3/4 managers it hasn’t worked out here so far. It’s true he has the best win rate for us out of previous managers… I’m not defending him by the way. He’s been shocking this season… it’s funny though that people are saying give it Rooney or bring Ole back etc, what have they done to deserve this job :lol: Absolutely nothing. At least ETH won us a trophy and ended our drought. If people are gonna slate him don’t compare him to the likes of Rooney who’s just a shambles of a manager and Ole who also failed here and won nothing… it’s just embarrassing. If we replace him it’s got to be someone like Nagelsmann or even Amorim.
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I was so hyped about Hag but he’s done nothing of note here. Winning a tinpot is nothing. Ole was a far better manager and I can’t believe I’m saying that given the way that ended.
 
DJ_21 said:
Think it’s harsh calling him mediocre, I think there’s a decent manager in there somewhere. You don’t go to Madrid and batter them with an Ajax team if you haven’t got something about you. For whatever reason just like the last 3/4 managers it hasn’t worked out here so far. It’s true he has the best win rate for us out of previous managers… I’m not defending him by the way. He’s been shocking this season… it’s funny though that people are saying give it Rooney or bring Ole back etc, what have they done to deserve this job :lol: Absolutely nothing. At least ETH won us a trophy and ended our drought. If people are gonna slate him don’t compare him to the likes of Rooney who’s just a shambles of a manager and Ole who also failed here and won nothing… it’s just embarrassing. If we replace him it’s got to be someone like Nagelsmann or even Amorim.
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Yea it doest sound like you're defending him
 
DSG said:
I mean, it’s not just me that is saying that we look like shit when we play. Today we looked absolutely dire. The stats showed that we look awful too. I mean tell me, do you think we look good when we played today?
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When did I say we looked good today?
 
WPMUFC said:
Think i said a few months back that if any particular player could get ETH sacked it would be McTominay. I genuinely don't understand it. ETH believes Scotty's attribute is that he has a good possibility to be a loose player that arrives late on the edge of the box so the wingers can cut back to him. Fine, that is "A" particular kind of tactic. When it doesn't work, WHY IS HE OUT THERE FOR 102 MINUTES? :wenger:


For the first time ever I think that Mark Goldbridge guy said something insightful. Why is ETH so afraid to sub Rashford, Bruno, Mctominay if they are having a bad game or it just isn't working? Subbing Bruno off for Eriksen might not work, but it already hasn't worked for 90 mins. How does Scotty survive for 102 minutes when his downsides are leaving the whole midfield open for brentford to run through?


Is he scared of the players? Is he that stubborn? What is it? Why can't we sub players that are playing shit at a point in the game where we can see the potential of it to impact the game?
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This...when we will this club get a manager with bollocks? Tired of managers with the blinders on.
 
I was in the keep him camp until today. Thought he made a lot of improvements with a lot of complications in the squad. But that was just awful no urgency or ambition- poor football, hard to watch and couldn’t even hold on for a poxy win we didn’t deserve.
I don’t know what the answer is but we can’t be playing this crappily so often.
 
BluesJr said:
I was so hyped about Hag but he’s done nothing of note here. Winning a tinpot is nothing. Ole was a far better manager and I can’t believe I’m saying that given the way that ended.
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Based on what? There’s no evidence what so ever to suggest this. Doesn’t matter what trophy it was.. we was all desperate for a trophy because it had been so long so we was all buzzing we won the league cup.
 
E-mal said:
For all the folks that want to to keep him and see how he does under ''the new structure'', please explain to us how that structure will fix the lack of tactics, the space in midfield and the fact we press and and play low block at the same time?
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They just think it can all be explained away by personnel. If only we had a fit LB and a pacy CB and this or that, everything would fall into place (the build up, the press and such). There's no way a good manager does this poorly even if he doesn't have all the pieces in place.

It was worth a punt, get rid and start fresh with the new structure.
 
DJ_21 said:
Think it’s harsh calling him mediocre, I think there’s a decent manager in there somewhere. You don’t go to Madrid and batter them with an Ajax team if you haven’t got something about you. For whatever reason just like the last 3/4 managers it hasn’t worked out here so far. It’s true he has the best win rate for us out of previous managers… I’m not defending him by the way. He’s been shocking this season… it’s funny though that people are saying give it Rooney or bring Ole back etc, what have they done to deserve this job :lol: Absolutely nothing. At least ETH won us a trophy and ended our drought. If people are gonna slate him don’t compare him to the likes of Rooney who’s just a shambles of a manager and Ole who also failed here and won nothing… it’s just embarrassing. If we replace him it’s got to be someone like Nagelsmann or even Amorim.
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Isn’t decent the very definition of mediocre? Hanging your “great” reputation on a semifinal run in the CL and an away result at Real Madrid? Or a couple of league titles in the Eredivise where he was managing a team that has 3x the financial might of the 2nd most successful team?

There are lots of managers that do well in lower leagues and come to the PL and don’t do well. From a club perspective, we are searching for a guy that will allow us to challenge for titles. I think we can see by now that it’s not going to work.
 
TrebleChamp99 said:
This has been my point all along too.
who can we get?
Whoever we want , you at least try and in some cases you’ll be successful.

I just hope we actually make the move and don’t do some rose tinted stubborn sticking with the manager routine like we did Jose , Ole etc, we need to be a bit more ruthless.

Even if we win next three games he should be sacked there’s no longevity or sign that in the long term he can keep the club consistently playing well.
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When you have a key employee in any business who isn’t good enough, you sack them and hire in someone else and hope they can do the job. People who say there’s no one to hire to replace him don’t have much experience in managing businesses. You’re always striving for better, even if it means you run the risk of hiring in someone worse.
 
DSG said:
Isn’t decent the very definition of mediocre? Hanging your “great” reputation on a semifinal run in the CL and an away result at Real Madrid? Or a couple of league titles in the Eredivise where he was managing a team that has 3x the financial might of the 2nd most successful team?

There are lots of managers that do well in lower leagues and come to the PL and don’t do well. From a club perspective, we are searching for a guy that will allow us to challenge for titles. I think we can see by now that it’s not going to work.
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He was an highly rated manager before we got him. The 2 main options was him or Pochettino… 1 of thems managed in the prem before and look how well he’s doing with a team that’s spent billions. It’s probably not going to work with ETH and the new owners have a massive decision to make in the summer but whoever they pick needs to be challenging straight away since our fan base don’t give anyone more than 2 seasons.
 
DSG said:
When you have a key employee in any business who isn’t good enough, you sack them and hire in someone else and hope they can do the job. People who say there’s no one to hire to replace him don’t have much experience in managing businesses. You’re always striving for better, even if it means you run the risk of hiring in someone worse.
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I keep saying this!!

You don’t keep a failing employee because their replacement may fail. You terminate them & hire the best available candidate at the time.

With the mindset being peddled you’d have EtH in perpetuate.

I refuse to believe there is not a single manager not named Pep, Jurgen or Xabi that couldn’t do better than EtH.
 
DJ_21 said:
Based on what? There’s no evidence what so ever to suggest this. Doesn’t matter what trophy it was.. we was all desperate for a trophy because it had been so long so we was all buzzing we won the league cup.
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Based on our league positions, football played and goals scored.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
I keep saying this!!

You don’t keep a failing employee because their replacement may fail. You terminate them & hire the best available candidate at the time.

With the mindset being peddled you’d have EtH in perpetuate.

I refuse to believe there is not a single manager not named Pep, Jurgen or Xabi that couldn’t do better than EtH.
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It’s reductive to say the ETH In group is a cult. It’s not. But the amount of ridiculous excuses they use are bordering on insane.

We’re all unhappy he hasn’t worked out. But great clubs make tough decisions. Barca, Real, Bayern, Juventus… none of them would tolerate this.
 
It would be a truly mind boggling start for the new regime to allow this to go on for much longer really, it s simply not the impression you want to make from the start of what is meant to be a new era. He's done.
 
BluesJr said:
Based on our league positions, football played and goals scored.
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Yet he still didn’t win anything. Footballs about winning trophy’s. ETH finished 3rd in his first season which is just the same as finishing 2nd. You still only qualify for the CL. I agree that we did play better football under Ole though in his early days as manager with us. He still wasn’t up to it tactically though.
 
DJ_21 said:
He was an highly rated manager before we got him. The 2 main options was him or Pochettino… 1 of thems managed in the prem before and look how well he’s doing with a team that’s spent billions. It’s probably not going to work with ETH and the new owners have a massive decision to make in the summer but whoever they pick needs to be challenging straight away since our fan base don’t give anyone more than 2 seasons.
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Most great clubs don’t wait. It’s a different era than 1986 and SAF turned us into one of the greatest clubs in the world. We should have standards that reflect that status.
 
DSG said:
Most great clubs don’t wait. It’s a different era than 1986 and SAF turned us into one of the greatest clubs in the world. We should have standards that reflect that status.
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How long should a manager get then? Can you expect to hire a manager and have them challenging in the first season? I do believe we need a new manager to progress us further but we’re still miles away from competing with the top 3. So how long should a new manager get…
 
DJ_21 said:
Think it’s harsh calling him mediocre, I think there’s a decent manager in there somewhere. You don’t go to Madrid and batter them with an Ajax team if you haven’t got something about you. For whatever reason just like the last 3/4 managers it hasn’t worked out here so far. It’s true he has the best win rate for us out of previous managers… I’m not defending him by the way. He’s been shocking this season… it’s funny though that people are saying give it Rooney or bring Ole back etc, what have they done to deserve this job :lol: Absolutely nothing. At least ETH won us a trophy and ended our drought. If people are gonna slate him don’t compare him to the likes of Rooney who’s just a shambles of a manager and Ole who also failed here and won nothing… it’s just embarrassing. If we replace him it’s got to be someone like Nagelsmann or even Amorim.
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While I agree the Rooney shouts are ridiculous (though I suspect those are all in jest as opposed to serious suggestions), I think you're underrating the job Ole did. He didn't win any trophies, but he did get close. In his last full season, we got 74 points in the league, just 1 point less than ETH's impressive debut season, which is what has elevated his win percentage so high.

Ole 2020-21:
Pts - 74, goals - 73, xg - 60.1, ga - 44, xga - 41.4, xgd +18.6

ETH 2022-23:
Pts - 75, goals - 58, xg - 67.7, ga - 43, xga - 50.4, xgd +17.3

So there really isn't as big of a gap as you're suggesting, at least in the league. Nobody is suggesting Ole should take over full time, just that he'd be a reasonable interim option if a full-time manager isn't prepared to join before the end of the season.
 
DJ_21 said:
How long should a manager get then? Can you expect to hire a manager and have them challenging in the first season? I do believe we need a new manager to progress us further but we’re still miles away from competing with the top 3. So how long should a new manager get…
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You need to be seeing progress in the style of play etc. A plan in place. If we were 6th but showing signs of a direction I think things may possibly be a bit different in terms of the feeling towards the manager. I think when there's no sign of progression and if anything things look like they're more so going backwards than forwards, plugs have to be pulled. Managers deserve time, but its a case by case basis for me, some deserve more, some don't, the evidence decides.
 
That's easily the worst performance I've seen in the club's recent history including the tenure of Sir Alex.

Highlights the frailties of this season, inconsistency and though the displays have been abysmal there was some context around the fact the team was on a winning run in periods since the new year.
 
DJ_21 said:
Think it’s harsh calling him mediocre, I think there’s a decent manager in there somewhere. You don’t go to Madrid and batter them with an Ajax team if you haven’t got something about you. For whatever reason just like the last 3/4 managers it hasn’t worked out here so far. It’s true he has the best win rate for us out of previous managers… I’m not defending him by the way. He’s been shocking this season… it’s funny though that people are saying give it Rooney or bring Ole back etc, what have they done to deserve this job :lol: Absolutely nothing. At least ETH won us a trophy and ended our drought. If people are gonna slate him don’t compare him to the likes of Rooney who’s just a shambles of a manager and Ole who also failed here and won nothing… it’s just embarrassing. If we replace him it’s got to be someone like Nagelsmann or even Amorim.
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Real Madrid lost 12 games in La Liga that season, got 68 points and finished 19 points off the top. They had 3 managers (Lopetegui, Solari, the return of Zidane), recorded their worst points total since 01/02 and worst goal difference since 99/00.

Even then they might be expected to go through vs. Ajax but that was a shocking Real Madrid team by their own standards. Very atypical of them and a much less scary opponent in reality than you'd usually associate with the club's name.

Nobody else put 4 past them at the Bernabeu to be fair, but that defeat to Ajax was their 4th home loss in 4 consecutive home games in all competitions.

Is that important context to consider in retrospect?

Madrid were a bit wank at the time.
 
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That Brentford ‘peformance’ is unacceptable. As much as the FA cup win was special the reality is that his coaching is not having much affect on this team.
 
For me the biggest indictment for him is the way Emery & Ange have got their teams to perform. They have had less times with their teams and I do not believe that they have massively better players and yet they are well ahead of us playing good football and having scored 20+ goals more than us. We will end this season with around 50 goals scored which is completely unacceptable
 
I have supporting our man ETH till date, but today so so bad. It feels like the manager is unable to keep the players in control temperamentally.

Our immature players get hyped up by winning 1 game. There’s been enough said on ETH being a disciplanarian, but not sure what good it is if we just keep repeating the same mistakes again.

Whatever our hybrid “a little of everything” playstyle is, the uncertainty it creates on the pitch is in no way conducive to maintain control on or off the pitch.

Rashford + Ten Hag out.
 
In Rainbows said:
Exactly. He keeps playing certain players and still has the tactic of leaving the middle wide open for players to just run into to beat the press. It's suicide. Everybody can see that you want that space smaller by pushing up the CBs and he refuses to do it. He keeps playing someone like Maguire who makes that virtually impossible. This isn't a slight against Maguire, who has done well with what he has, but he's just not the right player to play when pushing the CBs up. He keeps playing players that don't allow you to dominate possession like McTominay.

This is how he wants United to be playing. He doesn't value things that other managers value as being necessary to play well. He's had more than enough time to get United playing football the United fans find enjoyable.

He needs to go.
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Don't blame Maguire for that. The tactic is the same whether Maguire plays or not.
 
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