Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[ayushreddevil9]

How did Klopp convert that shite Liverpool team into a modern juggernaut? Capable managers build successful teams.

Didn't Klopp sign Mane, Salah, VvD, Alisson, Fabinho, Robertson, Matip and Wijnaldum? Thats 8 players of his "modern juggernaut".

 

[Sarni]

Insane? Do we need to resort to personal insult for a difference of opinion?

Having someone in the squad and having someone in top condition able to make a sustained impact and contribution are two very different things. If you’re only on the pitch for 58% of the time you can’t contribute as much as:

• Salah 72
• Haaland 76
• Son 82

All playing significantly more minutes (and far better players)

Personal insult? Really? I obviously do not literally think you are insane, I just think your assessment in this case is.

Even outside Hojlund, who as I've pointed out has been available for quite a bit of time, we certainly have enough quality and have had enough luck with injuries to key players like Rashford, Bruno, Garnacho and Antony to not be 13th worst offense in the league. It's not even like we've lacked the striker to finish off chances, we simply have not created them at a high enough rate.

 

[Alex99]

Didn't Klopp sign Mane, Salah, VvD, Alisson, Fabinho, Robertson, Matip and Wijnaldum? Thats 8 players of his "modern juggernaut"

By his third full season (which was preceeded by his third proper transfer window), it was something like 10 of the 14 highest appearance makers being "his" players and 11 of 16 if focused on starts.

We're plodding along with Evans, Maguire, Lindelof and McTominay in our ranks, while Reguilon and Pellistri have more appearances in the league this season than Martinez and Mount.

 

[TsuWave]

McTominay is literally our sixth highest appearance maker this season. Dalot is higher than him, and Lindelof is also in the top 10, and is very much on course to have more starts and overall appearances than he had last year.

Martial is in his ninth season at the club.

I’m not sure regarding the point you’re making. I listed the ones I remembered and out of those only two are starters. I’m sure you understood that because in your reply you spoke of “starts”, then of “appearances” and “seasons”. These things are not the same, but put into one paragraph it makes it look more substantial than what it is.

6 players - out of which 3 are starters. Hardly the “they didn’t put a shift in for Mourinho and got him sacked, and now they’re not putting in a shift for Ten Hag and will get him sacked” hill to die on.

Mctominay has a bunch of appearances because he’s been useful as a sub - and has bailed out the manager plenty.

Martial being on his 9th season at the club means what exactly? Guy has struggled with injuries for years, surely people are not trying to excuse the manager’s shortcomings by pointing here. At least I’d hope, as that would be a bit desperate

 

[JPRouve]

How did Klopp convert that shite Liverpool team into a modern juggernaut? Capable managers build successful teams.

It's an interesting question because the answer exposes both ETH and Murtough.

Klopp/Edwards built current Liverpool by first making them play a standard gegenpress, his influence was obvious within weeks but the results were inconsistent due to a mix of ill-fitted personnel and fundamental tactical issues opponents could "easily" bypass the high press and punish Liverpool high line. To fix that Klopp and Liverpool did two things, Klopp adjusted his system and focused a lot more on his team ability to keep and recycle the ball instead of forcing an up and down game. And the club also brough great athletes that could cover lots of ground in the middle, defenders that could mitigate the massive space that they leave behind them and a goalkeeper that is arguably the best in 1v1 situations because Liverpool's system creates/created those opportunities for opponents.

Basically on the Klopp side it's an example of what our managers have not done, ETH and the others with the exception of maybe Mourinho. He implemented a system(without his own players), the players applied that system to the best of their abilities and then Klopp and Liverpool adjusted the system and squad to fix tactical and personnel issues.

The issue for ETH is that he hasn't implemented a system or at least he has failed to implement it. He hasn't adjusted our setup to fix issues and the players we brought don't fix or improve our setup.

 

[VP89]

Ten Hag has a system?

Clearly this season Ten Hag thinks Scotts more optimal than 3 of his own midfield signings for whatever he is trying to do this season. Even before Mount was injured Scott was playing ahead of him.

Man, do you actually read my replies? I said that was just a few games and players bought for big teams often need to settle, this is in almost every position. Fabinho, grealish, Havertz were all facing periods not starting games before they clicked. Mount not starting over McTominay for a small number of games early in the season literally means nothing.

I dont even know how you can argue against the idea that Ten Hag didn't want McTominay. He literally wanted to sell him. McTominay is not suited to what ten hag wants to implement and he's making do.

The ones that prove your claims about what Ten Hag did and didn't demand in terms of transfer control.

Our club has a dual veto policy on director of football and manager. That is well documented everywhere.

A veto on both sides does not mean Ten Hag has full control. I'm not sure what's contraversial about this. There are a lot of points peddled around lying that Ten hag has full control, when he doesn't. The club can veto his suggestions and vice versa.

 

[Robbie Boy]

We should just get Conte then because this group of players is only suited to play his kind of football. Its never going to work with any other manager who has modern footballing ideas.

Well we have to get there. Other teams managed to do it. Hopefully with the new structures in place we can stop hoarding players who blatantly aren't good enough, and start recruiting properly.

 

[Rista]

We came top 4 in 2 of the 3 seasons before Ten Hag took over. We were absolute dogshit under Solskjaer and Rangnick in 21/22 yet still finsihed 6th. Ten Hag being an up and coming successful manager at Ajax you would expect would improve things. Then he added £250m worth of players with our biggest ever transfer window. While it was never guaranteed we would come top 4 last season it was hardly unexpected either given the players we have with one the largest wage bills in world football, so while Ten Hag did well last year he didn't perform miracles either. Challenging or even winning the league would have been overachieving not finishing fecking 3rd.


There's your context.

The hilarious thing is that we're doing just as bad or worse than that "disastrious season" where Ole was rightly sacked. But ETH supporters don't want to change the manager this time. Apparently finishing 2nd and 3rd the two seasons prior doesn't mean anything and that particular disastrous season is our baseline. And now 2 years later and 400 million spent things getting no better than that very bad season is still not only meaningless but somehow plays into ETH's favor!

 

[Plant0x84]

You can add context for the manager and still think his system just doesn’t work in this league

Aggressive pressing, high turnover transition focused football? Seems to work for Pep and Klopp. Bear in mind Erik used to work with and learn from Pep at Bayern. I think he will know how this system is supposed to work.

 

[Daydreamer]

I get what you’re saying I really do but I just disagree. A lot of the xG we’re conceding is high volume low quality chances. Which rightly or wrongly is by design.

With 24/5 different defensive combinations and our best striker being 21, unfit at the start of the season and only playing 58% of our PL minutes I think it’s absolutely understandable why our attack isn’t flying. So it’s a bit worse than starts or appearances would suggest. At the moment we have no striker. We have played several games now with no striker.

I agree we’ve been generally fine for winger fitness (as in nothing id consider by this point ridiculously unlucky) but we still had rotation options out for other reasons (Antony).


Insane? Do we need to resort to personal insult for a difference of opinion?

Having someone in the squad and having someone in top condition able to make a sustained impact and contribution are two very different things. If you’re only on the pitch for 58% of the time you can’t contribute as much as:

• Salah 72
• Haaland 76
• Son 82

All playing significantly more minutes (and far better players)

So conceding so many chances is actually the plan? That’s even worse.

And United’s striker situation isn’t really “worse than the starts and appearances suggest”. It’s just that those stats don’t say what you want them to say.

PL Starts

(Arsenal) Jesus - 13
(Liverpool) Nunez - 17
(City) Haaland - 22
(Villa) Watkins - 28
(Spurs) Son - 23
(United) Hojland - 17
(Brighton) Ferguson - 15
(West Ham) Antonio - 12
(Wolves) Jimenez - 17
(Newcastle) Isak - 17
(Chelsea) Nkunku - 2

I only went down to 11th as those are the five teams above and below United in the table. Hojlands 17 starts from 20 appearances is pretty standard. In fact, only 3 teams have their main striker starting more games. And his playing less minutes likely has more to do with his not scoring or assisting in his first 14 games than it does his fitness.

You did the same thing in that thread you started. Minutes played are not the same thing as minutes available for. United’s injuries have been bad, but not at all unprecedented.

 

[Alex99]

I’m not sure regarding the point you’re making. I listed the ones I remembered and out of those only two are starters. I’m sure you understood that because in your reply you spoke of “starts”, then of “appearances” and “seasons”. These things are not the same, but put into one paragraph it makes it look more substantial than what it is.

6 players - out of which 3 are starters. Hardly the “they didn’t put a shift in for Mourinho and got him sacked, and now they’re not putting in a shift for Ten Hag and will get him sacked” hill to die on.

Mctominay has a bunch of appearances because he’s been useful as a sub - and has bailed out the manager plenty.

Martial being on his 9th season at the club means what exactly? Guy has struggled with injuries for years, surely people are not trying to excuse the manager’s shortcomings by pointing here. At least I’d hope, as that would be a bit desperate

The point I'm making is that we've still got too many players leftover from a manager that was sacked over five years ago (or almost eight, in Martial's case).

I've gone over the numbers before, but we've the lowest number of players with 20+, 18+ and 16+ starts of any of the teams in the top six (and probably the top eight or nine, I just didn't check that far), showing that we've been unable to play a remotely consistent line-up.

In a remotely well ran club, Martial, McTominay, Lindelof and possibly even Dalot are moved along way before reaching this stage. There's even a strong argument for Shaw, given his fitness record.

Even the "lack of effort getting managers sacked" argument has some basis in reality, given the obvious cultural issues at the club (which certainly aren't helped by the contracts some of these players are given) that can permeate a squad long after the source of the 'trouble' has gone.

 

[Robbie Boy]

The worst thing is, we've spent more than enough to have a really good team. The problem is that we've let subpar managers sign players who aren't good enough, and the whole setup has been surrounded by a terrible structure. It's an absolute recipe for disaster. We've literally thrown shit at a wall in our managerial appointments and player recruitment, desperately hoping that some might stick.

 

[TsuWave]

Aggressive pressing, high turnover transition focused football? Seems to work for Pep and Klopp. Bear in mind Erik used to work with and learn from Pep at Bayern. I think he will know how this system is supposed to work.

Pep plays “high turnover transition” football?

Working with him at Bayern doesn’t translate to knowing how his system at City is supposed to work. Pep has made changes and adjustments to his system. Let alone being able to implement and deliver it - I mean, if that was the case, for example, surely some/more of the guys in Ferguson’s staff would have had illustrious careers as managers, no?

 

[redcucumber]

By being supported in quickly filling it with players that suited his style. By his third full seaspn, the regular playing squad was overwhelmingly filled with players brought in for him.

Didn't Klopp sign Mane, Salah, VvD, Alisson, Fabinho, Robertson, Matip and Wijnaldum? Thats 8 players of his "modern juggernaut".

It's an interesting question because the answer exposes both ETH and Murtough.

Klopp/Edwards built current Liverpool by first making them play a standard gegenpress, his influence was obvious within weeks but the results were inconsistent due to a mix of ill-fitted personnel and fundamental tactical issues opponents could "easily" bypass the high press and punish Liverpool high line. To fix that Klopp and Liverpool did two things, Klopp adjusted his system and focused a lot more on his team ability to keep and recycle the ball instead of forcing an up and down game. And the club also brough great athletes that could cover lots of ground in the middle, defenders that could mitigate the massive space that they leave behind them and a goalkeeper that is arguably the best in 1v1 situations because Liverpool's system creates/created those opportunities for opponents.

Basically on the Klopp side it's an example of what our managers have not done, ETH and the others with the exception of maybe Mourinho. He implemented a system(without his own players), the players applied that system to the best of their abilities and then Klopp and Liverpool adjusted the system and squad to fix tactical and personnel issues.

The issue for ETH is that he hasn't implemented a system or at least he has failed to implement it. He hasn't adjusted our setup to fix issues and the players we brought don't fix or improve our setup.

Interesting reply from @JPRouve. I distinctly remember Liverpool scoring quite a lot of goals in Klopp's early days and playing on the front foot, but also conceding often and looking vulnerable. You can see a similar thing with Ange Postecoglou at Spurs. Within a few months of him being there it's quite obvious what he wants them to do, it also means they suffer at times like in the game against Chelsea. Is ten Hag too pragmatic? He's gotten himself into a hole and it feels like he doesn't have much to fall back on. There doesn't seem to be anything that guides his decision-making at the moment - every game feels like a complete lottery in terms of how we might play as well as the result.

 

[stefan92]

Working with him at Bayern doesn’t translate to knowing how his system at City is supposed to work.

Especially when you consider that EtH and Pep didn't work together on a daily base. Pep managed the first team, EtH the second team. Of course they talked about how to align the two teams in a similar setup, which players could move up (or down if they need time to get fit again etc). It wasn't them working together on the pitch.

 

[Plant0x84]

Especially when you consider that EtH and Pep didn't work together on a daily base. Pep managed the first team, EtH the second team. Of course they talked about how to align the two teams in a similar setup, which players could move up (or down if they need time to get fit again etc). It wasn't them working together on the pitch.

This is what I meant. The reserves would play the same style as the first team to ease integration of players.

 

[Plant0x84]

Pep plays “high turnover transition” football?

Working with him at Bayern doesn’t translate to knowing how his system at City is supposed to work. Pep has made changes and adjustments to his system. Let alone being able to implement and deliver it - I mean, if that was the case, for example, surely some/more of the guys in Ferguson’s staff would have had illustrious careers as managers, no?

I didn’t say it would be identical. Just that they share the same basic principles.

 

[Fortitude]

Especially when you consider that EtH and Pep didn't work together on a daily base. Pep managed the first team, EtH the second team. Of course they talked about how to align the two teams in a similar setup, which players could move up (or down if they need time to get fit again etc). It wasn't them working together on the pitch.

There's also the massive role flux and constant in-game management and tweaking in response to what your team or the opposing one is doing, which is where the truly great managers elevate themselves and leave no doubt of their brilliance.

Even if a system is there in principle, the dynamics that then take place have equal precedence, if not more - like reviewing a chess game move by move after the fact and seeing that the right or wrong move at a juncture can cause things to snowball to the positive or the negative.

Talking about, or even agreeing on things regarding a team or setting it up does not mean two coaches will go on to perform the same.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Interesting reply from @JPRouve. I distinctly remember Liverpool scoring quite a lot of goals in Klopp's early days and playing on the front foot, but also conceding often and looking vulnerable.

Liverpool conceded a lot in Klopp's first season. By my count, 38 PL goals in 27 matches, or 1.41 goals per game.

In his second season, however, they conceded 42 PL goals. This is before they signed van Dijk, Fabinho, Alisson, and Robertson. Their most used defensive players in the PL were Nathaniel Clyne, Dejan Lovren, James Milner, Simon Mignolet, Joel Matip, and Ragnar Klavan. 42 goals is less than what United conceded last season after signing an expensive DM and expensive CB.

 

[TsuWave]

The point I'm making is that we've still got too many players leftover from a manager that was sacked over five years ago (or almost eight, in Martial's case).

I've gone over the numbers before, but we've the lowest number of players with 20+, 18+ and 16+ starts of any of the teams in the top six (and probably the top eight or nine, I just didn't check that far), showing that we've been unable to play a remotely consistent line-up.

In a remotely well ran club, Martial, McTominay, Lindelof and possibly even Dalot are moved along way before reaching this stage. There's even a strong argument for Shaw, given his fitness record.

Even the "lack of effort getting managers sacked" argument has some basis in reality, given the obvious cultural issues at the club (which certainly aren't helped by the contracts some of these players are given) that can permeate a squad long after the source of the 'trouble' has gone.

Well, you replied to a post speaking of starters with "appearances" and "seasons" - it read as disingenuous to me, that's why I was confused/wanted to clarify. "Too many players leftover from a manager that was sacked over five years ago". Dalot was a teenager, Rashford was like 20/21 and an academy graduate (who has contributed a lot since), Mctominay must have been 21/22 and despite not being his biggest fan, he has his uses as a squad player. I don't think it's that crazy that half of those players are still here.

Moreover, I don't think there's many people here arguing that United has been a well ran club.

In regards to the cultural and mentality argument - the squad is largely Ten Hag's - but please read below as I find this post salient:

I have no issue with the idea to sell players and bring new ones. But you still have to question the manager and why you are defending him that staunchly or giving him the benefit of doubt, people defending ETH seem to make two suggestions at the same time, the players are responsible for the tactical issues and they are also responsible for the mentality issues which implies that ETH isn't a technical or mental leader, so why exactly should he stay and be given a new batch of most likely expensive players when he is showing that he can't lead people tactically or mentally? And if things improves after changing the entire core why should he be considered responsible for the improvement, logically the new players should get 100% of the praises?

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

Nope, still struggling.

Onana is doing well in PL, stats don‘t lie. His ball playing is great too.

So an injured player is a bad signing? I guess Martinez and Hojlund are bad signings as well in your book.

Casemiro and Eriksen weren‘t signed for the future obviously.

We could not afford another midfielder: Amrabat was signed at the last minute. Heard of FFP?

You are like the guys who bring up Weghorst as a terrible ‚signing‘.

Onana had a passing accuracy of 59% vs Everton. He completed 8 out of 27 long balls. He's played some good passes this season, but he's often been poor on the ball. ten Hag spent all of that money on him and doesn't even try to play out from the back properly. Signing a ball playing GK was supposed to be a missing piece of the puzzle. Yet the stye of play remains poor. Onana has a 35% long ball accuracy overall in The Premier League. And I say this as someone who wanted rid of De Gea years ago.

Amrabat was not a random loan signing. ten Hag wanted him all summer. Amrabat wanted United all summer too. He even refused to train at Fiorentina to help force a move. United paid £8.5 million and agreed a buy option, which would take the total to £30 million if he were signed permanently. He was only signed on loan to help navigate FFP. But the move hasn't worked out. ten Hag lost faith in him quite quickly. Instead of what many thought would be a bargain at £29-30 million, has turned out be a an expensive loan. If you want an example of a last minute loan, look at Arthur to Liverpool last season. They paid less than half of what we did for Amrabat.

 

[TsuWave]

I didn’t say it would be identical. Just that they share the same basic principles.

Again, I ask - does Pep play “high turnover transition focused” football?

 

[JPRouve]

Liverpool conceded a lot in Klopp's first season. By my count, 38 PL goals in 27 matches, or 1.41 goals per game.

In his second season, however, they conceded 42 PL goals. This is before they signed van Dijk, Fabinho, Alisson, and Robertson. Their most used defensive players in the PL were Nathaniel Clyne, Dejan Lovren, James Milner, Simon Mignolet, Joel Matip, and Ragnar Klavan. 42 goals is less than what United conceded last season after signing an expensive DM and expensive CB.

The first fixing phase was during the second part of his first season, it was without any of the high profile signings. Klopp just kept tweaking his system and adding better players, if Klopp doesn't tweak his system and adjust to his players, we are not witnessing the results and consistency that follows.

The posters who are pointing the finger at a lack of talent or a glut of injuries aren't wrong but they are forgetting the most important part which is that the manager still has to build and develop a system that maximizes his current team as a whole. We are nearly two years in and I don't think that ETH has shown that ability at a good level, we heavily rely on individual talent more than team synergy and it's important to point out that team synergy is not based on overall players talent.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Didn't Klopp sign Mane, Salah, VvD, Alisson, Fabinho, Robertson, Matip and Wijnaldum? Thats 8 players of his "modern juggernaut".

Klopp apparently wanted Brandt or some other lad over salah.

You see this is a problem I have with this idea that managers make signings. Signings made while a manager is at a club are not necessarily ones identified by the manager.

For all the ETH whinging , our club has made a balls of transfers for 11 years. Sacking managers hasn’t changed that and Klopp/Pep don’t just pick who they want, there is an actual plan at those clubs.

This hysterical hyper focus on the manager position is just a waste of time. I’d love if we mad Klopp manager over Moyes and see how he would have done after getting Fellaini as his first signing.

That’s the level of clownery our managers are having to deal with. The only difference was the club just threw more and more money to compensate for the clubs (Woodward/glazers) reluctance to actually put proper structures and football people in place.

 

[Telsim]

Blimey, another season of his shit-on-a-stick football... that would be genuinely awful. Please, no! Structure has nothing to do with that.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

We will quite obviously not qualify for Champions League, don't think there are too many ifs there. However I expect him to get a new contract, full vote of confidence and significant control over transfers still, simply because these days I just always expect us to be inept.

I'm actually starting to think you're right. ten Hag will probably spend 4 seasons here in total. He'll be our version of Rafa Benítez/Brendan Rodgers.

Although I don't see him wining a CL. The occasional domestic cup and top 3 finish.

 

[Stinkypete]

They finished 3rd last year, so yeah. Only Martinez has been out. Ddg replaced by Onana.

Think you need to look at the injury lists for our squad for the first 20+ game lists and the various squad combinations we have had to use. Rangnick and Ole had better first xi's the season before Ten Hag took over.

It's clearly not just been Martinez out.

 

[Plant0x84]

Again, I ask - does Pep play “high turnover transition focused” football?

Pep has moved to a positional playing style - you said so yourself. Guardiola's philosophy still has elements of possession, pressing, and attacking football though.
Whilst he might not be truly transitional in style, there is still a lot of pressing and counter pressing in his tactics. City’s players are better suited to stringing passes together than ours though so keeping possession of the ball isn’t a problem for them like it is for us.

 

[Sarni]

I'm actually starting to think you're right. ten Hag will probably spend 4 seasons here in total. He'll be our version of Rafa Benítez/Brendan Rodgers.

Although I don't see him wining a CL. The occasional domestic cup and top 3 finish.

Yeah. I am expecting him to get a free pass all of next season regardless of results/performances, while we are assessing how he performs under 'new structure', and then he may be on thin ground if we have a similar season as this one and finish around 6th or 8th. Even then I expect him to get another season to see how he's going to cope with one more season under new structure. If we then do not improve to a comfortable top 4 position (or at least closer to top 4 than we will be this year) in 2025-26, he will be gone.

I don't expect us to be great under him but we will probably scrape a top 4 finish in one of the upcoming two seasons, as I expect one of Spurs/Villa to regress, and it will be considered a huge, major success.

 

[Alex99]

Well, you replied to a post speaking of starters with "appearances" and "seasons" - it read as disingenuous to me, that's why I was confused/wanted to clarify. "Too many players leftover from a manager that was sacked over five years ago". Dalot was a teenager, Rashford was like 20/21 and an academy graduate (who has contributed a lot since), Mctominay must have been 21/22 and despite not being his biggest fan, he has his uses as a squad player. I don't think it's that crazy that half of those players are still here.

Moreover, I don't think there's many people here arguing that United has been a well ran club.

In regards to the cultural and mentality argument - the squad is largely Ten Hag's - but please read below as I find this post salient:

For starters, this squad is quite literally not "largely Ten Hag's", and certainly not based on player availability.

Onana, Bayandir, Martinez, Evans, Malacia, Casemiro, Eriksen, Mount, Antony and Hojlund are the permanent signings we've made under him. The other six were loans, only one of which remains at the club.

Bayandir is a backup keeper, Malacia a backup left-back, and neither have appeared this season.

Evans and Eriksen were free transfers. The former, brought in as an emergency back-up that's ended up playing far more than I imagine anyone thought he would, the latter was a stop-gap midfielder who did his job for us last season but is now clearly down the pecking order given age and injury/health history. Neither are part of any long-term plans, nor were they ever intended to be. That'd be like classing Manninger and Klavan as Klopp's.

Martinez and Mount have played less than Reguilon (whose loan ended two months ago) and Pellistri (who has been out on loan for over a month).

So that leaves Onana, Casemiro, Antony and Hojlund as players expected to make anything more than a short term contribution to the first team, and that have been available this season. You can add Garnacho and Mainoo to that, and it's still only six players, three of which are 21 or under.

You talk about me being disingenuous then come out with shite like the squad being "largely Ten Hag's".

I've said numerous times I want a new manager next season, and I've also said that Ten Hag's tactical decisions are one of the main things you can criticise him for. Chiefly, the weird hybrid system he seems to have landed on that is quite clearly not working, despite us using it for months now, and to a lesser extent, that whole Varane debacle.

What annoys me is the incessant "400 million", "signed 16 players", "don't dominate games", etc. without any acknowledgement of the wider context to these points. It's shit flinging for the sake of shit flinging, and descends into pinning stuff on Ten Hag that either has or should have little to nothing to do with his job as manager, at the expense of discussing the things he could be doing better with, regardless of the circumstances (e.g. not continuing with a high pressure when you know you haven't got the players available for it).

The fact that we've been discussing the roles of players in getting previous managers sacked and how many times we've had to rely on second and third choice players this season should tell you how quickly this thread veers into, frankly, pointless debate.

 

[hobbers]

Sacking a manager with one year left on his contract is literally the lowest amount you’ll ever have to pay for sacking a manager.

keeping him would mean giving him at least a years extension which would then mean a higher payoff when we inevitably sack him during next season.

So whoever is briefing that is an idiot.

 

[Sarni]

Sacking a manager with one year left on his contract is literally the lowest amount you’ll ever have to pay for sacking a manager.

keeping him would mean giving him at least a years extension which would then mean a higher payoff when we inevitably sack him during next season.

So whoever is briefing that is an idiot.

Also, working with 'new structure' will not make him a better coach, it could just about give him better tools to paper over cracks and hide his deficiencies a little better. Which might be enough to get a top 4 finish if Spurs/Villa decline and I guess that's ultimately going to be our ambition, i.e. be a consistent top 4 challenger while running cost efficient operations.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

Yeah. I am expecting him to get a free pass all of next season regardless of results/performances, while we are assessing how he performs under 'new structure', and then he may be on thin ground if we have a similar season as this one and finish around 6th or 8th. Even then I expect him to get another season to see how he's going to cope with one more season under new structure. If we then do not improve to a comfortable top 4 position (or at least closer to top 4 than we will be this year) in 2025-26, he will be gone.

I would begin to doubt INEOS if they don't sack him.

Nice's season has actually fallen apart. They've only won 3 of their last 12 L1 games. They really struggle to score goals. Just 24 goals scored from 25 games.

And this was after summer clear-out and some significant investment in signings such as Sanson (loan) Boga, Balde and Moffi.

Their Swiss team, Lausanne-Sport, are battling relegation. Funnily enough, Basel and Grasshoper are in the relegation battle with them.

 

[TsuWave]

For starters, this squad is quite literally not "largely Ten Hag's", and certainly not based on player availability.

I legitimately don't know what you're doing here. This is the first team squad according to our website -> https://www.manutd.com/en/players-and-staff/first-team

this is the composition of the squad:

Spoiler

Onana - ETH
Bayindir - ETH
Heaton

Martinez - ETH
Malacia - ETH
Evans - ETH
Kwambala - promoted by ETH
Varane
Lindelof
Maguire
Dalot
Shaw


Casemiro - ETH
Amrabat - ETH
Mount - ETH
Eriksen - ETH
Mainoo - promoted by ETH
Forson - promoted by ETH
Mctominay
B. Fernandes
Amad

Hojlund - ETH
Antony - ETH
Rashford
Martial
Garnacho
Shoretire

how is this not largely his squad?

you are caveating "free transfers", "loans", "availability" - as if the players suddenly stop being members of the first team squad. Madness

 

[Fortitude]

What is terrifying is being threatened with options like Southgate, Potter and others that are completely out of their depth before even putting a foot through the door.

I've never said it before about any candidate, but if INEOS are even entertaining the notion of Southgate and his name starts to pick up weight, there should be protests before this club is driven through the floorboards.

If the options turn out to be as bad as one might be led to believe, ten Hag gets another season by default, but that is not how any process should work and it would be a damning indictment on these new owners, setting a tone of total negativity out the gate. Sort of like having a club handed over from Mike Ashley to his disinterested offspring.

 

[VP89]

I legitimately don't know what you're doing here. This is the first team squad according to our website -> https://www.manutd.com/en/players-and-staff/first-team

this is the composition of the squad:

Spoiler

Onana - ETH
Bayindir - ETH
Heaton

Martinez - ETH
Malacia - ETH
Evans - ETH
Kwambala - promoted by ETH
Varane
Lindelof
Maguire
Dalot
Shaw


Casemiro - ETH
Amrabat - ETH
Mount - ETH
Eriksen - ETH
Mainoo - promoted by ETH
Forson - promoted by ETH
Mctominay
B. Fernandes
Amad

Hojlund - ETH
Antony - ETH
Rashford
Martial
Garnacho
Shoretire

how is this not largely his squad?

you are caveating "free transfers", "loans", "availability", as if the players suddenly stop being members of the first team squad. Madness

Imagine pointing to injured players and loan dumpster dives and claiming thats his squad as though it's a master design.

Caught out chatting shite, again.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Sacking a manager with one year left on his contract is literally the lowest amount you’ll ever have to pay for sacking a manager.

keeping him would mean giving him at least a years extension which would then mean a higher payoff when we inevitably sack him during next season.

So whoever is briefing that is an idiot.

He likely won't be here next season. Some on here obsessively keep repeating he'll be here next season and get a "free pass" all season. I honestly think some just enjoy winding themselves up.

If, and it's a big if, he is here next season; he will be booted out pretty quickly unless there are massive improvements.

 

[Robbie Boy]

What is terrifying is being threatened with options like Southgate, Potter and others that are completely out of their depth before even putting a foot through the door.

I've never said it before about any candidate, but if INEOS are even entertaining the notion of Southgate and his name starts to pick up weight, there should be protests before this club is driven through the floorboards.

If the options turn out to be as bad as one might be led to believe, ten Hag gets another season by default, but that is not how any process should work and it would be a damning indictment on these new owners, setting a tone of total negativity out the gate. Sort of like having a club handed over from Mike Ashley to his disinterested offspring.

Agreed. I want him out, but feck me, if we hire Potter/Southgate, it'll be a very dark day for the club.

 

[VP89]

He likely won't be here next season. Some on here obsessively keep repeating he'll be here next season and get a "free pass" all season. I honestly think some just enjoy winding themselves up.

If, and it's a big if, he is here next season; he will be booted out pretty quickly unless there are massive improvements.

Paul Hirst who is very credible said INEOS favour seeing him under a new structure and giving him another season.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Paul Hirst who is very credible said INEOS favour seeing him under a new structure and giving him another season.

And that would lead me to my second paragraph.