Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Godfather]

So I take it he‘s still here. Not even the slightest noise he might be a goner? Oh to be a United manager…

 

[Bobski]

Why are we doing the whole full backs inverting into midfield thing? That tactic was devised initially as a means of creating further control of possession, Ten Hag hoof it and run style of play is not about controlled possession, so you end up with full backs out of position , tons of space for the opposition to counter into and nonsense like fecking Lindelof trying to make the play from deep midfield, Mainoo pushed high up the pitch as a forward presser.

Just a demented mish-mash of styles.

 

[SirCactus]

I’ve been in the Erik Out-camp for months now and although I’ve been praying he would prove my doubt wrong, I simply don’t see that happening anymore.

The least I expect from a modern manager is to implement a viable style of football. We’re not always going to win but we should always be able to see what the idea is.

Managers like de Zerbi, Ange, Arteta, Klopp and Pep had their teams play a distinct style from day one and while it may have taken them some time to get results, this style formed the foundation to build on. Their footballing principles are instilled into every player at the club so everyone knows what to do in any situation on the pitch.

Erik has had plenty of time and resources do to the same. Yet, we look completely clueless both in and out of possession. Frankly, it’s embarrassing to watch our players clearly not having any idea what to do out there. They have obviously been coached to attract pressure, play out from the back and press in certain situations but either the principles are too vague/unrefined to work against elite teams or Erik isn’t capable of instilling them correctly, because our football has been awful for most of his tenure here.

At the end of the day, Erik hasn’t succeeded in doing the one thing that matters most: implementing a viable style of play. Therefore, he must go.

A lot of fair points made in your post mate. I have oscillated between the camps myself. From being a staunch supporter of ETH I found myself increasingly dubious as the season unfolded. That said I think we have to recognise that injuries have hurt us and that ETH did inherit a toxic dressing room. Ok, the scousers are demonstrating what can be achieved despite injuries but a lot of their current success is attributable to Klopp also. It does not make me less of a Utd fan to acknowledge that he is one of the greatest managers of the Premier League era. Sir Alex himself has acknowledged this, and he would know. The season our hated rivals are having has only increased the pressure on ETH, who is clearly an honorable bloke doing an honest job. The result at Anfield shows what he is capable of and I would be prepared to give him another year in pursuit of the marginal gains that will bring us back into the elite fold. There has been a lot of negativity around yesterday's result but I want to make two points about events this week. 1. Big Jim spoke eloquently about his vision for the club and I am convinced he will deliver on his well thought out plans. 2. This weekend is the anniversary of Sir Bobby (RIP) who would have been distraught about the ineptitude of the team yesterday, but who perhaps would be reassured by the overall picture now that the governing powers at the club have finally come to their senses. We are utd and we will knock scousers and city off their respective perches if we come together and focus on the future. Maybe ETH is not the long term answer but he is behind the wheel at the moment and fans need to show solidarity.

 

[Godfather]

So where does he rank then for you among our post Fergie managers? Surely behind Mourinho and LvG. Better than Moyes. Not yet sure whether Ole was worse.

 

[JPRouve]

So where does he rank then for you among our post Fergie managers? Surely behind Mourinho and LvG. Better than Moyes. Not yet sure whether Ole was worse.

Today, with Ole as an average manager with too many shortcomings to match the club's ambitions.

 

[Rozay]

I wish he complained more about the refs. This troll doesn't even apply to him.

It kinda does, he’s mentioned that incident numerous times throughout the season.

 

[Insanity]

Last season he had the excuse that the games were coming thick and fast so didn't get a proper chance to implement his ideas on the training ground and that was the reason the team looked so disjointed. Now we play one game a week and still our players look second best on the pitch. Each and every team comes to our ground and outplays us. If I had to describe our team in one phrase, I would call us the "Hoof-ball hopefuls". Besides Bruno and Casemiro playing low percentage hoofs to find our attacking players we don't seem to have any other plan. It's very disappointing.

Even though you have wanted the manager out for a long time, there is always a little hope that you are proven wrong and he can actually turn it around so that we don't have to go through the same shit cycle again with a new manager. With ETH there isn't that little hope left either. He is arguably our worst post Fergie manager. It would take years to undo the damage this clown has done in his two years here. Everything from his recruitment to his football have been total disasters. On top his personality is as dull as they come and he spouts so much nonsense. At least VG was mildly entertaining and was able to implement his boring style of play. This guy is a nothing manager.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

You honestly think Arsenal, City or Liverpool would actively chase for Bruno? And you reckon I’m deluded! The amount he gives the ball away is ridiculous and they wouldn’t put up with his indiscipline both positionally and, well discipline, given how often he loses it.

Dalot was at Milan before their recent resurgence, and is ahead of the same Cancelo that Pep binned off last summer, not the best example either.

You would think we knew how much Bruno gives the ball away, he was the same in Portugal. I suspect the way we will be run from hereon in I doubt we would go near him. His pass % would go against him. Onana did play for the CL finalists, but it doesn't look like Inter are exactly missing him.

 

[Crimson King]

I was enjoying our winning run, but like many I knew it was just papering over the cracks. No surprise about the result yesterday, although the actual performance itself sticks in the throat.

I felt that if the front 3 stayed fit we had a chance at top 5, purely because we might be able to outscore most of the teams we should be beating. This was relying on their individual ability though, not anything the manager offered tactically. As soon as I saw the news about Højlund I think I mentally accepted that we were done. We'll struggle to beat NF in the cup, and City could well be a slaughter, even though they're not at their best at the moment either.

I think EtH will be gone eventually. Once INEOS have their structure in place they'll want to appoint someone who is part of that. Not sure who it'll be, and the next guy might not be the one either, but hopefully it'll be the start of a process towards getting the club to a point where they can win trophies again.

For this season, hopefully we can muddle through until Højlund is back, maybe Martinez and even Shaw make it back for the last 5/6 matches. At the very least I hope we hold on to a Europa League spot. I know it's not everyone's favourite competition, but might as well use it to blood some more young players, either those already at the club or perhaps some prospects we sign in the summer. It's also a European trophy we might actually stand a chance of winning.

That's our level at the moment. We're not a UCL side.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Bruno failed multiple managers? The same Bruno who single-handedly (single-footedly?) kept Ole in a job for a year when he looked like he was on the brink of the sack? Yeah, I don't think so.

Bruno can be very productive, but he gives the ball away far too much, the captaincy may be making him forcing passes as his way of leading the team and taking responsibility, you may get away with slack passing in other leagues. However you do it here and players pounce on it. I actually think the captaincy is weighing him down.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Maybe had we sold maguire and Mctominay and bought a decent back up striker and a A pacey CB we might be in a better shape.

These players have proven enough that they are not that good to challenge for the title and hence if we are to move it to the next level, no matter who the manager is we need to move past them.

Think the Mount signing is coming back to haunt us. Did we need him and could that money have been spent on another decent striker.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Yesterday's result was no surprise, Hojlunds good scoring form and some luck has carried us last couple of weeks. But other than that it's rinse and repeat performances. Very open games that we struggle to control and struggle to make chances from possesion, while giving away chance after chance to the opposition. If we don't create chances through our press we are fecked.

All we can do is press high and transition. We have no control, we can't keep the ball and we can't defend either high/mid or low.

Yes the squad isn't as strong as city's, and we have had our injury problems. But it feels like tactically ETH is compleatly out of his depth in the PL. Regularly owned by average teams and managers (in PL terms anyway).

We needed a midfield general to control the tempo of the game and also act as a barrier in front of the defence. Do midfield generals exist any more.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

So I take it he‘s still here. Not even the slightest noise he might be a goner? Oh to be a United manager…

It will be the cost to get rid of him. You presume like at other times it will be cheaper when CL qualification is out of the question. SJR will also want his staff in place fully to decide who to replace him if they do. They may feel he is not entirely the problem and a lot of it is down to the players.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

So I take it he‘s still here. Not even the slightest noise he might be a goner? Oh to be a United manager…

I don’t think any serious noise will happen until they’re both out the FA Cup and mathematically unable to qualify for the Champions League

Behind the scenes I’m pretty sure INEOS/Berrada already know who they ideally want as the manager next season

 

[Acquire Me]

I don’t think any serious noise will happen until they’re both out the FA Cup and mathematically unable to qualify for the Champions League

Behind the scenes I’m pretty sure INEOS/Berrada already know who they ideally want as the manager next season

Might be so. Or they acknowledge it’s a lot of work to do behind the scenes and no manager can be successful under current climate.

 

[kafta]

I wish he would just come out with an honest assessment so we find out if he's just covering up or really deluded. How he can watch that game and come out with the crap he said post match is insane.

On the pitch we are all over the place, and not one mistake we've seen has been improved on. More importantly, i still have no idea what we're gonna get everytime we line up.

The end of the season can't come soon enough.

 

[Jericholyte2]

You would think we knew how much Bruno gives the ball away, he was the same in Portugal. I suspect the way we will be run from hereon in I doubt we would go near him. His pass % would go against him. Onana did play for the CL finalists, but it doesn't look like Inter are exactly missing him.

Well that was why we didn’t get Bruno in the summer before we eventually signed him, higher-ups were concerned about his successful pass statistics.

 

[1988]

So fed up with the "showed character" nonsense. They showed extremely poor character. They were rubbish, weak and boring. No one wanted it apart from maybe 10 minutes or so. Just. fecking. stop. With the "showed character". Just say they were bad and it wasn't good enough. Especially at home. Talk us through the dreadful stats, reflect on the style that isn't working, promise us supporters a change of style over the next few windows because NO ONE asked for United to be a transition team. We want the team to dominate games. Feck this counter bullpoop.

 

[dwd]

He doesn't have the personality to put on 'an amazing presentation'. Same problem with motivating these players. INEOS will get rid.

To be fair he did before getting the job by all accounts.

 

[Freak]

I understand that there is a mess at upper management and board level that might affect your recruitment plan etc. but how the feck can the players not even do the basics like passing or working hard or looking fit or playing in a cohesive unit? Surely that’s something you can fix in training by being a good coach? He’s fecking shit!

 

[Acquire Me]

So fed up with the "showed character" nonsense. They showed extremely poor character. They were rubbish, weak and boring. No one wanted it apart from maybe 10 minutes or so. Just. fecking. stop. With the "showed character". Just say they were bad and it wasn't good enough. Especially at home. Talk us through the dreadful stats, reflect on the style that isn't working, promise us supporters a change of style over the next few windows because NO ONE asked for United to be a transition team. We want the team to dominate games. Feck this counter bullpoop.

They showed something at the end of the game. Not good enough for most of the game.

That said, we need them to perform for the rest of the season. We all know how that lot reacts to criticism.

I look forward to the final game of this season.

 

[united for life]

Why are we doing the whole full backs inverting into midfield thing? That tactic was devised initially as a means of creating further control of possession, Ten Hag hoof it and run style of play is not about controlled possession, so you end up with full backs out of position , tons of space for the opposition to counter into and nonsense like fecking Lindelof trying to make the play from deep midfield, Mainoo pushed high up the pitch as a forward presser.

Just a demented mish-mash of styles.

was thinking the same. Why do we have dalot in midfield instead up high on the right supporting the winger?

 

[crossy1686]

So where does he rank then for you among our post Fergie managers? Surely behind Mourinho and LvG. Better than Moyes. Not yet sure whether Ole was worse.

On par with Ole maybe? But at least Ole gave us big wins. You take away the league cup and he's on par with Moyes really so it depends how much stock you place in that cup run.

 

[Chairman Steve]

So I take it he‘s still here. Not even the slightest noise he might be a goner? Oh to be a United manager…

If we were a well run outfit like our similarly leveled European peers, I think he’d have gone the morning after we finished bottom of the CL group stage and we’d have replaced him with someone else.

Hopefully those days will be realised with INEOS after this season.

 

[crossy1686]

Might be so. Or they acknowledge it’s a lot of work to do behind the scenes and no manager can be successful under current climate.

The new CEO has already been talking up De Zerbi off the record due to how admired he is over at City. The work that has to be done behind the scenes is currently being done with new recruitments, the next phase is everyone that shouldn't be here gets sacked, Ten Hag is in that bracket also.

 

[miliebrowndivorceattorney]

I wish he would just come out with an honest assessment so we find out if he's just covering up or really deluded. How he can watch that game and come out with the crap he said post match is insane.

On the pitch we are all over the place, and not one mistake we've seen has been improved on. More importantly, i still have no idea what we're gonna get everytime we line up.

The end of the season can't come soon enough.

Thats very doomy gloomy.

We just came down from a 7 game unbeaten run.

Last season after 26 played, we had 51 points. At this moment we are still only 7 points off that number.

The 27th game in 22/23 was a loss.

We could still win from this Fulham, with more shots, better positions than Fulham. This game, very evidently, our attacking players and mainly Bruno themselves failed. You cant blame Ten Hag for that.

More pragmatic? We have one defensive right back and he is injured. We have an attacking minded left back in Shaw, who is also injured. When Shaw gets pressed, he gets into trouble.

We just sold a more defensive but increasingly error prone, 375k a week budget eating keeper for a an attacking style Onana. His Turkish replacement wasnt that good 6 weeks ago.

Then, sit back and let current modern teams run at Varane, Maguire? Casemiro can probably paint his wall red with the amount he will get. McTominay is no dm. Eriksen is a liabilty and beside legs gone, yesterday he could not string together a few passes. It was painful to see.

Then we have Bruno, who has shown for a while now he doesnt have an eye for counter attacks. He has problems with long cross balls. Not with the ability, but with choosing where. And to who? Rashford? Garnacho is the only good attacker left and so he will get marked by 2 or 3 men.

So lets sack Ten Hag tomorrow and get Allardyce. (One of his fans, Dan Asworth is coming in, so who knows.) Who exactly is he gonna play more pragmatic with?

Ole did that pragmatic thing and it went ugly. United need to get into the modern world but FFP and Glazers hold things down.

The wise thing here really, would be to be patient. Be happy when we finish top 8 because we simply arent better. And when Ten Hag loses one game after a reasonable run, dont go and ask for his head. The transition will take time. We are still only 7 points of our last seasons run schedule when we ended 3rd.

Me, i'm actually not unhappy with yesterdays game. It puts more light not just on our light and understaffed defense, the non scoring attackers but at Bruno being judged whether he has what it takes. If there was any doubt, there is none today. He is no longer our main 10 this summer onwards, of that i'm convinced. And even in the moment of losing, there was no Antony. I told myself yesterday we can lose 5 nil as long as I dont have to watch Antony. Thank you, Erik.

Ten Hag, he will get sacked if he gets a run of losses. Many predicted we would get slaughtered through december and we didnt. Can the man not get a little loyalty?

 

[Fortitude]

This style of completely giving up all control in games and relying on turnovers to launch direct vertical attacks all game long can win matches, but never leagues. Add to that the fact that we manage to look likely to concede every time the opposition get the ball and it's absolutely pathetic. No patterns or style of build up when we have the ball and no semblance of a good rest defence when we lose it, what the feck do we even do in training besides Bruno just trying to find someone in the front 3 every time the ball comes to him?

We need to upgrade to a manager who can get these guys to actually play football.

Which leads to our players looking like they’ve played 90 plus extra time to penalties most games win or lose and is utterly unsustainable even over 4 games, let alone a campaign. There’s so many other things that are wrong that rest defence barely even gets mentioned, but it’s a cornerstone of modern football and we don’t even have the basics of it down.

The manager I wanted more than literally any other that has come post-Fergie is the one who has looked by far the most Ill-equipped for the league and the task at hand, especially so when deciding in preseason this is the direction he wanted to go in and stick to no matter what. He chose the kind of hill to die on that isn’t even fit and proper for the PL. It’s incredibly disappointing.

 

[Ash_G]

Why are we doing the whole full backs inverting into midfield thing? That tactic was devised initially as a means of creating further control of possession, Ten Hag hoof it and run style of play is not about controlled possession, so you end up with full backs out of position , tons of space for the opposition to counter into and nonsense like fecking Lindelof trying to make the play from deep midfield, Mainoo pushed high up the pitch as a forward presser.

Just a demented mish-mash of styles.

Agreed, I really fail to see the logic, particularly yesterday. Surely if you were going to do an inversion yesterday (which I don't think was needed), have Lindelof step inside on his right and let Dalot provide width on the right with an overlap as Lindelof was never going to do that.

Overall I am running out of faith in ETH. Have said it before I acknowledge the injuries but even with players back whilst we might win/look better the same issues are there but regardless you have to adapt to the situation you're in. I really can't believe that what we saw yesterday was the best that the available squad was capable of doing, there are obvious issues which we are all pointing out. It just feels like we've given up on any real plan other than just hope that we net get luckier than the other team in a punch for punch, attack against attack. That might win a few games here and there but just isn't sustainable, particularly when our attack really isn't that good at the moment!- probably doesn't also help with injuries/fatigue if the players are constantly trying to get back in position given how much we give the ball away.

 

[Acquire Me]

The new CEO has already been talking up De Zerbi off the record due to how admired he is over at City. The work that has to be done behind the scenes is currently being done with new recruitments, the next phase is everyone that shouldn't be here gets sacked, Ten Hag is in that bracket also.

Everyone at United are currently being looked at and considered. That goes from top to bottom. But I don’t think any one of us really knows anything about what they will do at this point.

The only thing I know is that they will not act based on own emotions or fans emotions.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Well that was why we didn’t get Bruno in the summer before we eventually signed him, higher-ups were concerned about his successful pass statistics.

The higher up now would be worried about his succesful pass statistics.

 

[Ludens the Red]

10th league defeat and still in February and out of Europe is unacceptable. Dead man walking really and I'd like to see him replaced.

Simone Inzaghi would be my preferred appointment.

Really coming round to this idea. I’ve always been against a back three system but I’m so sick and tired of watching opposition waltz through our team that I’d be happy to see it. Inter are brilliant, and they’re brilliant without having many absolutely brilliant players. Sound defensively and great going forward. He’s moulded calhanoglu into one of the best midfielders in the world.

 

[GreatDane]

Might be so. Or they acknowledge it’s a lot of work to do behind the scenes and no manager can be successful under current climate.

There's a lot of work to do behind the scenes no doubt, but the manager still controls the training and tactics and he's failed at that.

 

[DRJosh]

Really coming round to this idea. I’ve always been against a back three system but I’m so sick and tired of watching opposition waltz through our team that I’d be happy to see it. Inter are brilliant, and they’re brilliant without having many absolutely brilliant players. Sound defensively and great going forward. He’s moulded calhanoglu into one of the best midfielders in the world.

Agreed but would Inzaghi want the challenge to manage us? We’ve been a graveyard for talent both at player and managerial level.

 

[Acquire Me]

There's a lot of work to do behind the scenes no doubt, but the manager still controls the training and tactics and he's failed at that.

Yes, we should stop going in circles.

 

[Fortitude]

City won’t be bothered. They had many opportunities to rack up the goals and elevate score line against us, last game at OT they could have got 8-9 if they wanted and couldn’t be bothered. They will get it to 3-0/4-0 and settle down.

And we will be told how it is perfectly fine because we cannot expect better despite the fact that many lesser sides have given City a game in recent months.

Haaland is desperate for form; he’ll be doing his utmost to nail chances coming his way. The mercy of Pep, in a won game state, is probably the biggest determinant in how hard they go at it past the point it is necessary.

 

[crossy1686]

Everyone at United are currently being looked at and considered. That goes from top to bottom. But I don’t think any one of us really knows anything about what they will do at this point.

The only thing I know is that they will not act based on own emotions or fans emotions.

Well they’re replacing everyone and have given absolutely zero guarantees to the people who are currently in charge.

If you have zero trust in the current regime, how can you trust the current regime to have hired a manager capable of winning big things? It’s more likely their incompetence didn’t stop at hiring staff.

Absolutely everyone is getting replaced. Watch this space.

 

[Godfather]

On par with Ole maybe? But at least Ole gave us big wins. You take away the league cup and he's on par with Moyes really so it depends how much stock you place in that cup run.

That's fair I guess. It's the absolute abysmal signings under ETH's tenure that are a huge factor together with his chaotic and underwhelming football that seems to have absolutely no structure.

 

[Judas]

Ole's lows were lows, but it was more fun when things were going well than Ten Hag's time. Winning the trophy was nice don't get me wrong, but if I'd known it would probably be the peak at the time I'd certainly have felt different. Thought it was going to be a springboard to better. Really had high hopes, but he's woefully under delivered in truth.

 

[Marwood]

Agreed but would Inzaghi want the challenge to manage us? We’ve been a graveyard for talent both at player and managerial level.

We say this everytime we need a new manager. Many thought we couldn't get ETH.

We're still United. We still pay a fortune in wages to managers. As managers go we can get pretty much anyone we like.

 

[Still ill]

The higher up now would be worried about his succesful pass statistics.

I'm considerably lower down and I'm quite worried about it.