Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Yesterday's result was no surprise, Hojlunds good scoring form and some luck has carried us last couple of weeks. But other than that it's rinse and repeat performances. Very open games that we struggle to control and struggle to make chances from possesion, while giving away chance after chance to the opposition. If we don't create chances through our press we are fecked.

All we can do is press high and transition. We have no control, we can't keep the ball and we can't defend either high/mid or low.

Yes the squad isn't as strong as city's, and we have had our injury problems. But it feels like tactically ETH is compleatly out of his depth in the PL. Regularly owned by average teams and managers (in PL terms anyway).
 
I’ve been in the Erik Out-camp for months now and although I’ve been praying he would prove my doubt wrong, I simply don’t see that happening anymore.

The least I expect from a modern manager is to implement a viable style of football. We’re not always going to win but we should always be able to see what the idea is.

Managers like de Zerbi, Ange, Arteta, Klopp and Pep had their teams play a distinct style from day one and while it may have taken them some time to get results, this style formed the foundation to build on. Their footballing principles are instilled into every player at the club so everyone knows what to do in any situation on the pitch.

Erik has had plenty of time and resources do to the same. Yet, we look completely clueless both in and out of possession. Frankly, it’s embarrassing to watch our players clearly not having any idea what to do out there. They have obviously been coached to attract pressure, play out from the back and press in certain situations but either the principles are too vague/unrefined to work against elite teams or Erik isn’t capable of instilling them correctly, because our football has been awful for most of his tenure here.

At the end of the day, Erik hasn’t succeeded in doing the one thing that matters most: implementing a viable style of play. Therefore, he must go.
 
Longshanks said:
Yesterday's result was no surprise, Hojlunds good scoring form and some luck has carried us last couple of weeks. But other than that it's rinse and repeat performances. Very open games that we struggle to control and struggle to make chances from possesion, while giving away chance after chance to the opposition. If we don't create chances through our press we are fecked.

All we can do is press high and transition. We have no control, we can't keep the ball and we can't defend either high/mid or low.

Yes the squad isn't as strong as city's, and we have had our injury problems. But it feels like tactically ETH is compleatly out of his depth in the PL. Regularly owned by average teams and managers (in PL terms anyway).
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Yep - agree with all of this.

A few months ago when it was awful, he had injuries as an excuse and there was still some goodwill from last season.

Even with the wins recently, the lack of control in any game told you it wasn’t sustainable, and we were bound to get found out sooner or later.

Ineos must be looking at options for the summer, if not earlier, because sadly Erik isn’t it.
 
He’s decision making really sucks. Why not start with Amad? Why remove Mainoo after Casemiro was injured and bring on McTominay and Ericson, why keep on Rashford and Bruno?

While overall I think ETH has done a better job than people realise with a lot going against him. I do wonder if ever everything is in place and we have the dream squad and setup capable of challenging for titles will he then end up becoming the liability. A manager who makes the wrong decisions, a manager who is too scared to drop or sub certain players.
 
Sir Jim said they will decide a playing style and the coach will have to play that style, I think this was clear indication that Ten Hag isn’t playing a style INEOS want.

Can’t see Ten Hag lasting till the end of the season personally as we’ve got some potential games where we can get a beating in, city away, Liverpool and arsenal to play too. Also might be out of the cup mid week. No idea who we get to replace him.
 
There is no way that a team like Manchester United should concede so many chances. He’s made no effort to rectify the situation either- just doubled down on his ridiculous formation and tactics. The best managers are able to adapt to get the best out of the players available- ETH is not doing that and needs to be sacked!
 
My conclusion is basically that my opinion on a manager should not change due to injuries. If we have Shaw and Martinez available our play style changes completely. He may also have intended to change Bruno for Mount, but that hasn't been available to him.

I think we have a failure of squad building rather than a managerial failure.
 
I have been ETH in up until today. I have argued tooth and nail that he has been let down by the club and players, I still believe that however you cannot excuse the current situation.

5-6 days between games week in week out, plenty of time on the training ground to prepare for each game we play, plenty of time to put forth your vision as a manager and work on patterns and cohesion, defensive shape, set pieces. You can blame chopping and changing game by game due to injuries when your games are coming thick and fast. But with such gaps between games you have time as a manager to cover various situations and look at different options.

Yet here we are after an appalling performance against Fulham. No shape, half hearted press, no patterns of play. This isn't the Erik Ten Hag I and many people signed up for. I personally saw a very entertaining attacking Ajax some years ago under his tenure and imagined that he could bring that style to United. A student of total football and witness to Peps dark arts and yet we get this absolute dross week in week out.

Something is wrong on the training ground. Yes the structure above him has been woeful, but with the changes due to come in and the changes at boardroom level, the players, coaches and manager should be fighting to show they have a future at this club. Instead we just whimper along.
 
The last thing he needed was to lose yesterday. Now we’re going into the derby on a loss which could result in 2 losses which looks worse for him. He might have had a bit more slack if we won yesterday and lost next week.
 
Lu Tze said:
My conclusion is basically that my opinion on a manager should not change due to injuries. If we have Shaw and Martinez available our play style changes completely. He may also have intended to change Bruno for Mount, but that hasn't been available to him.

I think we have a failure of squad building rather than a managerial failure.
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Injuries have always been a part of football and always will be. This bizarre narrative a handful have tried to pedal that Ten Hag requires a fully fit squad at all times before he can be judged, is baffling. It has never been used to excuse the failings of previous managers
 
Lu Tze said:
My conclusion is basically that my opinion on a manager should not change due to injuries. If we have Shaw and Martinez available our play style changes completely. He may also have intended to change Bruno for Mount, but that hasn't been available to him.

I think we have a failure of squad building rather than a managerial failure.
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Even when we’ve had both Martinez and Shaw available to us this season, we’ve still not looked convincing in wins. Fulham were missing their best two players yesterday, that didn’t effect them in the same way it seems to do us according to many that still firmly back this manager.
 
It's hard to fathom why he wanted Forson on the right, it's mind-boggling to break up the team completely with new partnerships, and moving all attacking players out of their recent preferred positions cause of one injury.

And when it's not working for 30 minutes, why don't you try something different??

And god those post match comments from ETH is provoking.
 
We look awful whether win or lose the match. I can't understand why we can never match an opponent for intensity. This has been going on nearly a decade.

We take the chilled, laid back, almost lazy approach most games. Even it the games we get our shit together, the opponent still looks more up for a slog than us.
 
DSG said:
This is probably too reductive, but there are basically two camps.

Pro Ten Hag: players don’t perform, players aren’t good enough, we have too many injuries, it’s poor recruitment / Glazer’s fault.

Sack Ten Hag: He’s a horrible tactician, our poor recruitment is his fault, pre match prep is weak, in game adjustments are poor.

Frankly, it’s probably both.

I’m actually interested to see what SJR does. It is probably time for Rashford, Bruno, Maguire to move on.These are the only real holdovers from the Ole era. Scotty and Shaw too I guess. You don’t steal Man City and Newcastle executives (and pay a penalty) unless you are going to make major squad upheavals along the way.

I’d really like to see us sell these guys, not just for us, but for them too. I do think the future is brighter with a Garnacho, Hojlund, Mainoo, Licha spine. Also, I think Ten Hag needs to go. I think you want a manager to get the squad to play better than the sum of their parts, and that is just not the case. The eye test, the traditional stats like GF/GA/GD, shots against and possession % back this up. The advanced stats like xG and xGD also confirm this. He’s just not a good manager or coach, or at least he’s not good enough for the Premier League and Man Utd.
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Yes ofcourse it is both. But a good coach could maybe get something out of bad players. A bad coach will definitely get nothing out of bad players. We need a total clearout in the summer.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Maddening isn't it.

His management this season is worse than any other manager we've had post-SAF.

He's been appalling and we've actually been lucky according to xPTs too! We should have less points than we already do.
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Indeed. People give a genuine united legend in Ole more stick than this fraud.

This guy will not turn anything around because his tactics are a shambles. What on earth is he setting the team up to do?
 
AndySmith1990 said:
Injuries have always been a part of football and always will be. This bizarre narrative a handful have tried to pedal that Ten Hag requires a fully fit squad at all times before he can be judged, is baffling. It has never been used to excuse the failings of previous managers
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This is where I'm at with it. Even lesser teams have played against us missing key players but didn't waver from their style of play and subsequently, outplayed us.

Given the amount he has had to spend, injuries shouldn't still be used as an excuse for the shortcomings of being able to identify the style of play he wants to still try to implement.

Last season he bemoaned the fact we couldn't control games, this season he wants us to be the best transitional team, yet we're somewhere stuck in the middle of the two styles.

I also don't feel he learnt from the mistakes of last season and not having enough mobility in the middle of the midfield. Last summer we should have said thanks very much and sent Casemiro on his way and brought in someone with more athleticism, even if it meant they were lesser in technical aspects of the game.

We're still seeing Rashford and Garnacho making the same mistakes, which is starving the striker of service. Rashford and Garnacho continously run with their heads down, which I'm all for them trying to take on their man but there comes a point where they need to learn when to release the ball and make the right run into space to stretch the opposition defender. Instead, they then try to take on the 2nd man and shoot, OK try it once but dont keep attempting it, which is what's happening.
 
pascell said:
This is where I'm at with it. Even lesser teams have played against us missing key players but didn't waver from their style of play and subsequently, outplayed us.

Given the amount he has had to spend, injuries shouldn't still be used as an excuse for the shortcomings of being able to identify the style of play he wants to still try to implement.

Last season he bemoaned the fact we couldn't control games, this season he wants us to be the best transitional team, yet we're somewhere stuck in the middle of the two styles.

I also don't feel he learnt from the mistakes of last season and not having enough mobility in the middle of the midfield. Last summer we should have said thanks very much and sent Casemiro on his way and brought in someone with more athleticism, even if it meant they were lesser in technical aspects of the game.

We're still seeing Rashford and Garnacho making the same mistakes, which is starving the striker of service. Rashford and Garnacho continously run with their heads down, which I'm all for them trying to take on their man but there comes a point where they need to learn when to release the ball and make the right run into space to stretch the opposition defender. Instead, they then try to take on the 2nd man and shoot, OK try it once but dont keep attempting it, which is what's happening.
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Fulham missing arguably their best 3 players yesterday but still dominated us. MoTD showed what we all know, a limp high press that is easily bypassed, then a player in behind our midfield in acres of space. Casimero nowhere, Mainoo bizarrely positioned somewhere in front of him. Happened at start of season, happened repeatedly yesterday. ETH does nothing, literally nothing. He chased Amrabat all summer and then we paid a £9m loan fee, the guy is useless. But at least try something to give us defensive solidity. The other big reason he goes is he is a terrible, terrible judge of player. From Antony, to Weghorst to Amrabat to Mount, even Onana though he looks better, what is he doing? These are just not good enough for a top team. Yet still people saying he now needs backing 'properly'. He is frozen and lost, get him gone. If he stays Amad will be gone in summer, at least give him a few starts, he cant be worse than Antony or Forson for that matter. There is nothing that you can say ETH is delivering on right now
 
My biggest worry is that at the end of the season he puts on an amazing presentation to the powers that be in order to convince them that the plan is going to be fruitful, pretty much exactly how he got the job in the first place. I had high hopes for him butI have never really warmed to him as he's a bit devoid of an enduring personality. It's always felt like he's an interim and not the manager of United, I can't put my finger on why.

I think his biggest downfall has been Onana. He expected him to transform the way we play but he's absolutely horrendous at the basics.

I can't help but think that he struggles to get a connection with the players and to get his ideas across, hence we have this mashup of whatever football we try and play now. Sadly, it's time to move on and try somebody else in the summer. Hopefully INEOS get it right otherwise we are properly fecked.
 
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Gordon Godot said:
Fulham missing arguably their best 3 players yesterday but still dominated us. MoTD showed what we all know, a limp high press that is easily bypassed, then a player in behind our midfield in acres of space. Casimero nowhere, Mainoo bizarrely positioned somewhere in front of him. Happened at start of season, happened repeatedly yesterday. ETH does nothing, literally nothing. He chased Amrabat all summer and then we paid a £9m loan fee, the guy is useless. But at least try something to give us defensive solidity. The other big reason he goes is he is a terrible, terrible judge of player. From Antony, to Weghorst to Amrabat to Mount, even Onana though he looks better, what is he doing? These are just not good enough for a top team. Yet still people saying he now needs backing 'properly'. He is frozen and lost, get him gone. If he stays Amad will be gone in summer, at least give him a few starts, he cant be worse than Antony or Forson for that matter. There is nothing that you can say ETH is delivering on right now
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I remember the start of the season well, we spent big money on Mount so ten Hag could play two 8s and one 6, which teams rampaged through as our press with ease.

It needs a big reset in summer with manager and players both leaving. The next few months are key and with SJR saying in his interview that the Sporting Director, DOF etc all decide and agree on the style of play we want to play throughout the club, they have to get the next manager appointment correct.
 
dwd said:
My biggest worry is that at the end of the season he puts on an amazing presentation to the powers that be in order to convince them that the plan is going to be fruitful, pretty much exactly how he got the job in the first place. I had high hopes for him butI have never really warmed to him as he's a bit devoid of an enduring personality. It's always felt like he's an interim and not the manager of United, I can't put my finger on why.

I can't help but think that he struggles to get a connection with the players and to get his ideas across, hence we have this mashup of whatever football we try and play now. Sadly, it's time to move on and try somebody else in the summer. Hopefully INEOS get it right otherwise we are properly fecked.
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INEOS aren't stupid and they are watching every week. He's gone in the summer unless he hits that one remaining prerequisite: Top 4 and CL (spoiler: he won't)
 
I have never seen a manager who makes so many nonsensical decisions when he has a few players missing.
 
The first team injury excuse doesn't wash anymore. He's failed to imprint an identity, a plan, a style or any real improvement in character. I'm simply bored of watching the same tired crap.
 
Leftback99 said:
I think the 7-0 is in danger of being surpassed next week against City.
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City won’t be bothered. They had many opportunities to rack up the goals and elevate score line against us, last game at OT they could have got 8-9 if they wanted and couldn’t be bothered. They will get it to 3-0/4-0 and settle down.

And we will be told how it is perfectly fine because we cannot expect better despite the fact that many lesser sides have given City a game in recent months.
 
dwd said:
My biggest worry is that at the end of the season he puts on an amazing presentation to the powers that be in order to convince them that the plan is going to be fruitful, pretty much exactly how he got the job in the first place. I had high hopes for him butI have never really warmed to him as he's a bit devoid of an enduring personality. It's always felt like he's an interim and not the manager of United, I can't put my finger on why.

I think his biggest downfall has been Onana. He expected him to transform the way we play but he's absolutely horrendous at the basics.

I can't help but think that he struggles to get a connection with the players and to get his ideas across, hence we have this mashup of whatever football we try and play now. Sadly, it's time to move on and try somebody else in the summer. Hopefully INEOS get it right otherwise we are properly fecked.
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He doesn't have the personality to put on 'an amazing presentation'. Same problem with motivating these players. INEOS will get rid.
 
Sarni said:
City won’t be bothered. They had many opportunities to rack up the goals and elevate score line against us, last game at OT they could have got 8-9 if they wanted and couldn’t be bothered. They will get it to 3-0/4-0 and settle down.
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The way the title race is going GD could be vital. We're a great opprtunity to rack up the goals with the amount of chances we give up.
 
Judas said:
The first team injury excuse doesn't wash anymore. He's failed to imprint an identity, a plan, a style or any real improvement in character. I'm simply bored of watching the same tired crap.
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That's the part that bothers me. If I was to make an argument in his favor I would have to rely heavily on his ability to maintain United in the also-ran category and the blind faith that out of nowhere he will implement something that is palpable and can maybe elevate the club to the contender category.

At this point in time, he feels like a poor's man Harry Redknapp, objectively not bad but clearly not good.
 
Needs to stop using injuries as an excuse now. We just don’t have a style of play. After nearly 2 years.
 
JPRouve said:
At this point in time, he feels like a poor's man Harry Redknapp, objectively not bad but clearly not good.
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Why would you say he’s objectively not bad? Literally all evidence from the past 12 months suggest that’s what he is.
 
Sarni said:
City won’t be bothered. They had many opportunities to rack up the goals and elevate score line against us, last game at OT they could have got 8-9 if they wanted and couldn’t be bothered. They will get it to 3-0/4-0 and settle down.

And we will be told how it is perfectly fine because we cannot expect better despite the fact that many lesser sides have given City a game in recent months.
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They might be bothered this time when they look at Arsenal hitting 6/5/4 goals every week. Could come down to GD. We concede way too many chances… city aren’t like wolves,Fulham or Villa. They’ll put them away 9 times out of 10. Could be an ugly scoreline. And it might be ETH last. Ratcliffe will not accept it if we lose by 5+ goals.
 
This is a delusional man that we are in the right direction. Assuming he has his best XI ready to face City, Liverpool or Arsenal, it is likely that we get trash home and away. Our midfield cannot control a game no matter which opponents, our defense will continue to leak goals and our forwards can't score enough to win a game. I see a delusional man who is waiting for the season and hoping Ratcliffe and Co. will keep him on for another season. Do us a favour and convince Liverpool to hire you. I will be forever grateful.
 
Signing Antony and Onanna is a sackable offence on its own. Add the dross we see on the pitch. Cant really see how anyone can still think he is the answer
 
DJ_21 said:
They might be bothered this time when they look at Arsenal hitting 6/5/4 goals every week. Could come down to GD. We concede way too many chances… city aren’t like wolves,Fulham or Villa. They’ll put them away 9 times out of 10. Could be an ugly scoreline. And it might be ETH last. Ratcliffe will not accept it if we lose by 5+ goals.
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He will accept, no worries. ETH is one of the safest managers in the league I am sure of it.
 
Lu Tze said:
My conclusion is basically that my opinion on a manager should not change due to injuries. If we have Shaw and Martinez available our play style changes completely. He may also have intended to change Bruno for Mount, but that hasn't been available to him.

I think we have a failure of squad building rather than a managerial failure.
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Come on, we weren't even that great to watch last season but other teams, who are usually very good, were very poor and helped our position. We've looked bad since around winning the cup, which is 12 months ago. We've been absolutely stuffed with full strength sides available last season. We've been outplayed with most players fit even this season.

Injuries are one thing, but we shouldn't be this bad every time we have injuries. And we are this bad because we're poorly coached - you can't see a plan with or without all players fit, so obviously we'll look a bit better when we have all our best players fit. That would be the case for every manager and isn't some redeeming fact for Ten Hag.

If you take a step back and just look at the whole thing, the stats, the football, goal difference etc, the answer is very clear. He's not good enough. It really couldn't be more obvious, and yet some want more of it!? This fanbase deserves mediocrity.
 
Jev said:
Why would you say he’s objectively not bad? Literally all evidence from the past 12 months suggest that’s what he is.
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Because actually bad managers create way more losses and generally a worse situation outside of the field. The past 12 months exposes an average PL manager not a bad one, if you want an example of a bad PL manager you will have the likes Santini, De Boer and all the managers that actually create loses and continuous bad cycles which doesn't apply to ETH. ETH is bang average.
 
Just for some perspective, Liverpool probably have more injuries than us at the moment but their season doesn't look like imploding to midtable mediocrity.

If a manager doesn't have a plan for his full squad and bases all his tactics on his fit first XI, he's a very poor manager.
 
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