Terrible argument. These players should be dominating teams like Newport and Fulham.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Maddening isn't it.
His management this season is worse than any other manager we've had post-SAF.
He's been appalling and we've actually been lucky according to xPTs too! We should have less points than we already do.
Haven't looked at it for awhile, jfc it has us down at 11th
Still a lot of those players only Ferguson was capable of getting anything out of them.
People are back to saying the players aren't good enough after Fulham beat us.
Some of you are actually embarrassing yourselves in your defense of ETH.
This squad isn't good enough to lead a title charge(something to blame ETH too considering his signings). But it's not a squad that should ever, under any circumstances: concede the 2nd most shots in the Premier League all season, GD of 0 after 26 games, 36 league goals in 26 games, xPTS of 11th, last in a relatively easy CL group, average 51% possession for the season, 12th in xGA, and routinely get outplayed by relegation fodder teams.
Some of you are actually embarrassing yourselves in your defense of ETH.
This squad isn't good enough to lead a title charge(something to blame ETH too considering his signings). But it's not a squad that should ever, under any circumstances: concede the 2nd most shots in the Premier League all season, GD of 0 after 26 games, 36 league goals in 26 games, xPTS of 11th, last in a relatively easy CL group, average 51% possession for the season, 12th in xGA, and routinely get outplayed by relegation fodder teams.
Manager has to take the blunt of the blame but one cannot give some of the players clean slate after clean slate. Accountability is two folds here. You look at that performance of rashford and Bruno and have to wonder what the heck were they doing? You look at players like Lindelof and eriksen and the fact they somehow Still feature for us is a joke. Varane Maguire both need replacing if we are being fair and so does casemiro.
I am all for sacking ETH but I am sick and tired of the same players getting chance after chance.
I still think I’d rather stick with and ship off the players. The squad is poor and while I get the argument that we should still be beating Fulham I disagree, because without those key players we don’t have a team. It’s still a mismatch of styles and replacing the manager just adds to that. We need some stability to build a decent squad. If we have that and the manager is still underperforming then sure, get rid, but I don’t think the next manager will fair much better with this squad. Some massive decisions to be made, for me that starts with Rashford who is massively overrated.
And for those who those that use the money argument agaisnt Ten Hag I just don’t get it. Apart from Antony (who has been really poor tbf) his signings have largely been decent and our better players. Martinez, Hojland, Casa are still amongst our best players. It’s the players that have been here for years who cause us the biggest headache!
And for those who those that use the money argument agaisnt Ten Hag I just don’t get it. Apart from Antony (who has been really poor tbf) his signings have largely been decent and our better players. Martinez, Hojland, Casa are still amongst our best players. It’s the players that have been here for years who cause us the biggest headache!
I've been wondering what the system was today, because we didn't press high, we didn't really try to dominate the game at all. Sorry but these same players finished 3rd with a trophy last year, and some of them finished 2nd before, they are not midtable players. They take instruction from the manager and I just think it's madness at this point to roll the dice and give him another year. We all said unless there was a huge improvement in performances, but we're just riding our luck every game, hoping for another moment from Garnacho/Hojlund.
I still can't believe we brought in what we thought was a progressive possession based coach from Ajax, and this is the football he has delivered.
I could understand if he'd turn us into an LVG-era type team that has a lot of the ball but struggles to create a lot as teams are forced to get a lot of men behind the ball. But he has less control of games than Ole's teams did. Our passing is even worse, ball retention even worse. 2 years and 400 million spent and he's not actually improved us on the ball.
It's not really a shock that he's failed because that seems to be inevitable for a Man United manager these days. It's the way he's failed that is shocking. There's absolutely no principle of possession or territorial dominance in our play.
I could understand if he'd turn us into an LVG-era type team that has a lot of the ball but struggles to create a lot as teams are forced to get a lot of men behind the ball. But he has less control of games than Ole's teams did. Our passing is even worse, ball retention even worse. 2 years and 400 million spent and he's not actually improved us on the ball.
It's not really a shock that he's failed because that seems to be inevitable for a Man United manager these days. It's the way he's failed that is shocking. There's absolutely no principle of possession or territorial dominance in our play.
This is a myth though. Who are the players being given chance after chance?
And most people who want ETH sacked also agree there should be a squad turnover taking place too.
If you say Rashford, he also saved ETH's job last season. Without his 30 goals, ETH would have been sacked. He's been poor this season and I'd sell him for the right offer.
Bruno: I would have sold him last summer, but ETH made him captain. He's not exactly blameless for that.
Eriksen: Signed on a free last season. Played relatively well until his injury last season. Not good enough since. He's only been here 2 seasons.
Lindelof: Decent squad player. I'd sell him, but this idea that he's a first XI player being given chance after chance is off the mark.
Varane: I'd move him on too, but I'm pretty sure our win-rate when he features is much higher than when he doesn't.
Maguire: ETH benched him whenever he had a first XI CB pairing available. To his credit, I think he's played relatively well this season, but I'd move him on too for the right offer.
Casemiro: He's only been here 2 seasons, but I'd sell him in the summer.
So who are these players being given chance after chance?
We've conceded the 2nd most shots in the league and are 11th in xPTs. There is no stability in sticking with a manager who's that incompetent.
We don't want to replace the manager so the new one gets to shape the squad. We're not doing that anymore.
We're replacing the manager, because he's nowhere good near enough and the new one will manage the next squad(that the board shape) way better.
Where would we be injury free?
Not defending this sh1t sh0w though, it's awful. Outplayed at home by Fulham, scrapping home in most games, it's on its last legs.
Not defending this sh1t sh0w though, it's awful. Outplayed at home by Fulham, scrapping home in most games, it's on its last legs.
You already named them. You can also add players like martial shaw who need replacing. The point is there are lot of players who need replacing whether all together or gradually is a different point.
I don't want to go into a season with shaw as our primary lb or Maguire/Varane as our first choice cbs or Lindelof frauding himself back into playing 11 or Martial as our back up striker or rashford playing number 9. These are the things we need to figure out irrespective of the manager issue. Jose made a good point in his recent interview where he said he wanted more clear out and Ole also touched on that. I am pretty sure eth in future will bring that point. We are just too slow in clearing out the duds.
Not denying any of that and already said manager is to take the major blame but to say hey these players are not to be blamed at all doesn't sit well with me. You say the players finish 2nd and 3rd but then so did the manager. There are players like bruno rashford shaw dalot maguire lindelof mctominay martial that made us finish 6th and now another poor season.
Again, not saying sell everyone but we need to be a bit more ruthless than we have been.
Some of those players though are responsible for ETH still being in the job.
Rashford yes, bruno yes. Others not so much. And even rashford bruno are inconsistent and may not be what we need if we are to close the gap on city.
I dont think anyone is saying sack manager, keep the players. The next manager and our sporting director will deal with the squad building. And yes manager has done some good too last season, but probably tried to change something in this one and it didn't work. My logic has always been that, if he needs such a good structure like the one at Ajax with Overmars and VDS, then we might as well just try for De Zerbi, whose biggest criticism from the ETH inners was that he benefitted from the Brighton setup. At least we know what his football is like.
You've just listed quite a few. 5 players starting today have been here for 5 years or more and are on 3 managers or more. Lindelof is still here, Rashford has had two poor seasons in three for three different managers (and for his wages and status, last season should be the standard not the exception) Bruno is chaos personified, Maguire couldn't be shifted in the summer. Dalot is the one player i'd make an exception for as he has shown some improvement in two seasons with EtH but again, he's been here a long time.
Outside of this Shaw is injured again and can't put two good seasons together. Martial has something like 19 goals in 4 seasons and is injured, and Mctominay is now a super sub, AwB is in his fifth season and his career seems to be sliding.
Wanting EtH to be sacked but placing some of the blame on players that have never been part of a title challenging United team needn't be mutually exclusive.
Thing is, this is not hyperbole. Aside from Chelsea at home (and they had sitters too), we’ve been the worst team in every game we’ve played this season.
I actually think it’s been since March 2022. It’s horrible coaching. He’s done.
I don't see why that matters. Many players were responsible for Fergie's triumphs. He still got rid when the time came.
We are 4-5 months too late in the sacking and its a trend with our management who delay getting rid of the managers as well players. Thats why we have players like Martial still at the club.
But but but low quality shots!
I wish he complained more about the refs. This troll doesn't even apply to him.
Bruno failed multiple managers? The same Bruno who single-handedly (single-footedly?) kept Ole in a job for a year when he looked like he was on the brink of the sack? Yeah, I don't think so.
The midfield play off the ball is as bad as it gets this season. The tactical setup of that trio is truly terrible.
I thought the first game when Wolves were running through us at will would have been a one off. Six months later and it’s the story of our season, I’ve lost count of how many times players are running directly at our defence with all our midfielder ambling behind the play. It’s ridiculous.
I thought the first game when Wolves were running through us at will would have been a one off. Six months later and it’s the story of our season, I’ve lost count of how many times players are running directly at our defence with all our midfielder ambling behind the play. It’s ridiculous.
Any useless bastard could serve up this 50/50 football that Ten Hag is delivering. Basically just going out, playing ping pong football and hoping our extra bit of quality over most teams can give us the edge. Hopeless.
What's the point of sticking with Ten Hag another 3 months? The longer our players train under his leadership, the worse they play and the harder/longer it will take to get them playing anywhere near their potential.
Showed such promise last season but all that has eroded away, we look absolute garbage. Injuries have played a major part but the way the team is set up is fundamentally flawed. We get dominated by every team we come up against regardless of their ability, it’s unacceptable. I’m sure INEOS are busy drawing up a list of names as we speak and are planning for the managers replacement because these performances just aren’t good enough. He’ll probably see out the season and be moved on in the summer.
The players argument even makes more sense if you compare that to arsenal and city. Arteta joined arsenal in December 2019 and since then their board has totally revamped their squad by selling the deadwood and the only two players he had before him joining were young Saka and Martinelli. Both of them have turned out to be really good so make sense to keep them
Now let us look at City players who were at city before December 2019 and are still playong for them
Rodri
Bernardo silva
Walker
Stones
Ederson
KDB
Foden
One could argue all of them are top players who would walk in most teams in the europe.
Now let us look at the Manchester United and the players we have had before October 2019 that are still with the club
Shaw
Martial
Rashford
Lindelof
Dalot
Mctominay
Maguire
AWB
Those are 8 players , more than City and much much more than arsenal. How many from that 8 are remotely close to what City have or that deserve to have stayed for this long or deserve to stay for another season. People may not understand it but this is a huge issue. And the scary part is all these 8 players are still featuring regularly for us in some form.
I am all for sacking ETH but if they think these players and some of the duds purchased after December 2019 deserve to stay for long, then I am not sure what to even say.
Now let us look at City players who were at city before December 2019 and are still playong for them
Rodri
Bernardo silva
Walker
Stones
Ederson
KDB
Foden
One could argue all of them are top players who would walk in most teams in the europe.
Now let us look at the Manchester United and the players we have had before October 2019 that are still with the club
Shaw
Martial
Rashford
Lindelof
Dalot
Mctominay
Maguire
AWB
Those are 8 players , more than City and much much more than arsenal. How many from that 8 are remotely close to what City have or that deserve to have stayed for this long or deserve to stay for another season. People may not understand it but this is a huge issue. And the scary part is all these 8 players are still featuring regularly for us in some form.
I am all for sacking ETH but if they think these players and some of the duds purchased after December 2019 deserve to stay for long, then I am not sure what to even say.
He got 400m to improve squad and failed big time. How much he still needs? Another 400?
We are lucky that sir Jim bought us or we would be in big problems after Ole and this stubborn/deluded fella. 800m on transfers and 1 LC to show.
The post was never to defend ETH . Read it again. Irrespective of what we do with ETH, we need to move on from some of the players who are still somehow featuring regularly for us. Whether eth stays or not doesn't change that.
The sort of typical performance by us this season, it didn't really surprise or shock me, which is pretty damning.
And Saliba and Xhaka. He then spent an exorbitant amount of money, close to ETH, and actually had a lot of duds but still managed to build the core of his team. Unfortunately ETH put his trust, and most of our budget, in Antony Mount and Onana, and here we are.
Shaw and Rashford was supposed to be the core of our team, the rest were tried to move on in the summer but failed. Although Mctominay ended up saving his job, Maguire too.
Well xhaka is no longer with them. And saliba was on loan and did not feature for emery.
Arteta struggled for 3 seasons before finally making them this good. Which is why it is important to look at their current squad and compare that with what he took over. Credit to arsenal's board for actually binning all of them and giving a totally fresh squad.
Whether eth stays or not we need to move on from the players I had listed. Maguire Lindelof awb shaw martial should all be sold if we are being honest. Maybe keep shaw as back up but we need a new lb.
But who performed 'last season' ETH or the team.
It can't be when the team performs ETH gets the flowers, then when the teams performs poorly we blame the players and say we should binn them off.
ETH has a very simple job.. Taking out a team that has a chance of winning every damn game. It's with this in mind you coach and train a team to the best ability for it to win the upcoming game.
That's why tactics and setup change game per game.
We played against Fulham same way we played against Wolves in August 2023. What did he learn from that game? Nothing it seems.
How can he see how we play, how other teams play against us, how we concede chances after chances and still believe it's the way to win matches.
I'm not sure if Bruno is shit and Ole is a great manager and got the best out of him or if Ole is shit and Bruno is amazing and kept him in a job. Football is confusing.
I like Bruno, i can never question his commitment and i always appreciate his workrate but he had a fairly poor season under Ole/Ralf in 21-22, had a very good season last year and has been mixed in his quality this season. In his specific case, i wouldn't call him a failure at all, in fact in terms of goals and assists he's one of the few signings we've made in the last decade that's been good, but the thought must be crossing everyone's mind after five seasons that he might not necessarily be a part of things going forward? When he plays for his fourth United manager next season, are we going to see the same erratic Bruno? I wonder if he could play for another manager that actually wants to play something other than counter-attack.
What has that got to do with my post. My post never suggested anything to defend eth. In fact I specifically said he should be sacked but then we also need to look at certain players who have outlasted their stay.
Eth getting flowers or not is not the point here. If you want to credit the players for finishing 2nd or 3rd then you also have to look at them when they finish 6th and some players are going to finish 6th (including this season) 4th time..so why should they get another free pass but the manager keeps on getting replaced.
Sorry it's 4AM over here.
Half of the players you mentioted can play better and we saw it. Just imagine where would be if we had sold Harry and McTominay.
Can we upgrade on them? Off course. I would sell all of them bar young kids. But I don't blame them when they have to play in this suicidal formation (Rashford lazines aside). Tactic so good it fall apart when you miss your LB.
We have a lot duds, but are they that bad to be outplayed by every club? Nah
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