Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Sarni]

Too many people here look only at results and ignore the underlying performances. For the last few weeks anybody who pointed out that the way we were playing was unsustainable was shouted down by the hivemind and called a "moaner" and all the other usual slurs.

Per xg metrics we should have conceded about 10 or 11 more goals than we should have scored. Our 0 GD is not because we cannot put away chances like many claim, it’s because our opposition have been extremely wasteful.

The only thing we got genuinely better at in recent weeks was chance creation but a lot of that was really kick and run relying on Garnacho and Hojlund using pace. We still create next to nothing in possession.

 

[Someone]

Our standards have slipped so hard that a lot of people got accustomed to not expecting anything decent.

Yes some players are underperforming, but the job of a manager is to get the best of what he has, and this is what ETH had when he joined plus 400m worth of players. His football is atrocious, and we get outplayed by fecking everyone. Every game is a struggle, and even when we win, it's 11 men cornered like a relegation fighting team. Klopp and Pep needed time, but in the process they played great football, they just needed time to get the right players in, but you could see a vision.

This season is gone anyway, which is a shame because this will have a significant impact on our spending in the summer. Ratcliffe or not, we always sack the managers when the damage is done, and it'll be the same in this case. But he won't be here next season.

 

[Woziak]

I do hope that Jim will be proactive owner. I don't think that Erik is a bad coach but sometimes things don't click. Tuchel is available so it would be crazy to miss on him.

Tuchel record with Chelsea was an average of 2.07 points per game and the season he came third he was building something, he is not as most believe a boring manager and plays attacking football, his Chelsea team scored 76 goals and conceded 33 goals the season he came third plus he won the CL, he’s a a flexible tactical coach that is miles better than ETH that’s why he beat him twice this season, even with a Bayern term on the slide.

We should be meeting him, Naigelsman and maybe H Flick already. It’s time to go German

 

[Suv666]

He was the obvious hire. To be fair it's very difficult to account for a manager coming in and completely abandoning the principles that made people want him in the first place.

If we'd have known it was going to be the same old transitional shite we've been seeing then I doubt so many of us would have wanted him.

Goes to show the levels between PL and Dutch football, even I was fooled tbh, he genuinely looked class and last season was pretty decent.

Like the managers before him the step up from Eredivise to PL is was just too much for him.

 

[Suv666]

We should be meeting him, Naigelsman and maybe H Flick already. It’s time to go German

I agree even though he’s been having some blunders lately, I sorta rate him.
I don’t think he’s the right candidate but right now these are only one’s we got. And looking at European football, I don’t see any other candidates.

Maybe De Zerbi as well, in that list, if the Barca move falls through, I do think there’s some truth in that rumour.

 

[Jericholyte2]

Everyone who whinged about my list earlier please come back and tell me who, out of our squad today would be near any of the teams you expect us to be competing with across the league.

I’ll wait…


…couldn’t think of many? That’s because these players are mid-table calibre. And look where we are, 6th.

Inconsistency against lower teams gets you 6th.
Poor against the top 4 gets you six.

These players are not top four players, they’ve proven that across a number of years for a number of different managers, expecting more from ETH is crazy, especially when you take injuries into account.

As a little mental exercise, which PL team would actively try to buy the following:

Onana: ???
Dalot: Brighton? Wolves? Palace?
Maguire: West Ham?
Varane: Newcastle?
Lindelof: Everton?
Casemiro: ?
Mainoo: City were trying over the last few years
Forson: Brentford? Forrest?
Bruno: Villa? Spurs?
Garnacho: Top clubs would be after him
Rashford: Chelsea?

Antony: ?
McT: West Ham? Newcastle?
Eriksen: Brentford?
Amad: Forrest?
Evans: Sheff Utd?
Martial: ?
AWB: Back to Palace?

These players have proven over several years that they have their ceiling that’s below what the club needs. Finances / reality have meant that we can’t ship them out all in one go and so we still have to ‘rely’ on sub-standard players.

And as long as we do that, we’ll keep having performances like today!

 

[bosnian_red]

For those bringing up Ajax days... it's just different doing this in the prem than the Eredivisie.

 

[#07]

When you think of how we played to win the Carabao Cup last season, the defensive disasterclass Ten Hag has presided over this season is so odd. He had something that was working last season. It might not have been the prettiest to watch but it wasn't pathetic. Teams don't even need to work hard to defeat us. Our shape is more open than the seas. Its crazy. We know he can coach a compact, defensively sound side. We saw it last season. He's simply choosing not to. In the end that's on him.

 

[AltiUn]

Per xg metrics we should have conceded about 10 or 11 more goals than we should have scored. Our 0 GD is not because we cannot put away chances like many claim, it’s because our opposition have been extremely wasteful.

The only thing we got genuinely better at in recent weeks was chance creation but a lot of that was really kick and run relying on Garnacho and Hojlund using pace. We still create next to nothing in possession.

The xG table has us in 11th and I think that's probably where we're at, we're an appalling team, like really, really bad.

 

[Woziak]

It’s the not the players, it’s the structure.

But honestly my lineup would be

Onana
Dalot Varane Evans Lindelof

Casemiro Mainoo Eriksen
Amad
Rashford Garnacho

Play similar to last season in more of a mid block instead of trying to press high. Eriksen/Mainoo/Amad can control the game well enough with the composure each has and Garnacho and Rashford are free to run the channels wide and still offer the transition threat.

Today with what was available we need to dominate lllllll ll

I agree even though he’s been having some blunders lately, I sorta rate him.
I don’t think he’s the right candidate but right now these are only one’s we got. And looking at European football, I don’t see any other candidates.

Maybe De Zerbi as well, in that list, if the Barca move falls through, I do think there’s some truth in that rumour.

A new boardroom, a new CEO, a new DoF the club must have a new Manager/Coach who can evaluate the squad and come to the conclusion that most fans have 75% of the squad is not fit for purpose, it’s not how many players should go, it’s really time to have a complete reset.

So many mistakes start with the keeper Get rid of Onana bring in Diego Costa. Then create a transfer strategy over 4 windows which recruits a further 4/5 hungry young elite per window and gets rid of at least 15-16 from this squad in the next two transfer windows!

 

[Woziak]

When you think of how we played to win the Carabao Cup last season, the defensive disasterclass Ten Hag has presided over this season is so odd. He had something that was working last season. It might not have been the prettiest to watch but it wasn't pathetic. Teams don't even need to work hard to defeat us. Our shape is more open than the seas. Its crazy. We know he can coach a compact, defensively sound side. We saw it last season. He's simply choosing not to. In the end that's on him.

That’s why he’s got to be sacked, his stubbornness is embarrassing the club week in week out!

 

[bosnian_red]

Everyone who whinged about my list earlier please come back and tell me who, out of our squad today would be near any of the teams you expect us to be competing with across the league.

I’ll wait…


…couldn’t think of many? That’s because these players are mid-table calibre. And look where we are, 6th.

Inconsistency against lower teams gets you 6th.
Poor against the top 4 gets you six.

These players are not top four players, they’ve proven that across a number of years for a number of different managers, expecting more from ETH is crazy, especially when you take injuries into account.

As a little mental exercise, which PL team would actively try to buy the following:

Onana: ???
Dalot: Brighton? Wolves? Palace?
Maguire: West Ham?
Varane: Newcastle?
Lindelof: Everton?
Casemiro: ?
Mainoo: City were trying over the last few years
Forson: Brentford? Forrest?
Bruno: Villa? Spurs?
Garnacho: Top clubs would be after him
Rashford: Chelsea?

Antony: ?
McT: West Ham? Newcastle?
Eriksen: Brentford?
Amad: Forrest?
Evans: Sheff Utd?
Martial: ?
AWB: Back to Palace?

These players have proven over several years that they have their ceiling that’s below what the club needs. Finances / reality have meant that we can’t ship them out all in one go and so we still have to ‘rely’ on sub-standard players.

And as long as we do that, we’ll keep having performances like today!

Onana was in the CL final last year at the best team in Italy.
Dalot starts ahead of Cancelo for Portugal. He would be wanted by big teams. He went on loan to Milan a few years ago and was a starter while he developed there.
Varane is just in his twilight years and gets injured too much, but is class otherwise. Same with Case. He was seen as the best DM in the league last season, best in the world 18 months ago.
Bruno would be wanted by big clubs of course. Ridiculous to say villa or Spurs FFS. Embarassing reaction to a loss of form.
Rashford would draw interest from all over, likely PSG.

This post is ridiculous. It is proven time and time again, that a collective loss of form is much more down to coaching and system failures than everyone just being shit players. It's the managers job to get the most of the players, and he's not doing that.

 

[Woziak]

Everyone who whinged about my list earlier please come back and tell me who, out of our squad today would be near any of the teams you expect us to be competing with across the league.

I’ll wait…


…couldn’t think of many? That’s because these players are mid-table calibre. And look where we are, 6th.

Inconsistency against lower teams gets you 6th.
Poor against the top 4 gets you six.

These players are not top four players, they’ve proven that across a number of years for a number of different managers, expecting more from ETH is crazy, especially when you take injuries into account.

As a little mental exercise, which PL team would actively try to buy the following:

Onana: ???
Dalot: Brighton? Wolves? Palace?
Maguire: West Ham?
Varane: Newcastle?
Lindelof: Everton?
Casemiro: ?
Mainoo: City were trying over the last few years
Forson: Brentford? Forrest?
Bruno: Villa? Spurs?
Garnacho: Top clubs would be after him
Rashford: Chelsea?

Antony: ?
McT: West Ham? Newcastle?
Eriksen: Brentford?
Amad: Forrest?
Evans: Sheff Utd?
Martial: ?
AWB: Back to Palace?

These players have proven over several years that they have their ceiling that’s below what the club needs. Finances / reality have meant that we can’t ship them out all in one go and so we still have to ‘rely’ on sub-standard players.

And as long as we do that, we’ll keep having performances like today!

Great post and a reality check, the club needs a complete reset !

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Doesn't seem real

 

[Jericholyte2]

Onana was in the CL final last year at the best team in Italy.
Dalot starts ahead of Cancelo for Portugal. He would be wanted by big teams. He went on loan to Milan a few years ago and was a starter while he developed there.
Varane is just in his twilight years and gets injured too much, but is class otherwise. Same with Case. He was seen as the best DM in the league last season, best in the world 18 months ago.
Bruno would be wanted by big clubs of course. Ridiculous to say villa or Spurs FFS. Embarassing reaction to a loss of form.
Rashford would draw interest from all over, likely PSG.

This post is ridiculous. It is proven time and time again, that a collective loss of form is much more down to coaching and system failures than everyone just being shit players. It's the managers job to get the most of the players, and he's not doing that.

You honestly think Arsenal, City or Liverpool would actively chase for Bruno? And you reckon I’m deluded! The amount he gives the ball away is ridiculous and they wouldn’t put up with his indiscipline both positionally and, well discipline, given how often he loses it.

Dalot was at Milan before their recent resurgence, and is ahead of the same Cancelo that Pep binned off last summer, not the best example either.

 

[bosnian_red]

Goes to show the levels between PL and Dutch football, even I was fooled tbh, he genuinely looked class and last season was pretty decent.

Like the managers before him the step up from Eredivise to PL is was just too much for him.

It's much easier to have a 1 season impact with a unique style. It's also very flawed to just trust in that fully. Managers have to constantly adapt and progress, other managers try to figure them out and you have to adapt to them. Especially in this league. Managers have simply figured out how to counter his system, and he hasn't adapted.

 

[el3mel]

Without Rashford's goals we wouldn't have got top 4 last season that's correct. But for a player on 350K a week I think it's fair to expect that as what should be standard, not one good season in three under three different managers.

We've had great players in the past that have had poor periods of form/inconsistency and it's normal, some absolute legends like Schmeichal in the first half of 98/99 or Giggs in 02/03 or 07/08; the difference is those periods of poor form lasted a few months. It kind of feels like we're excusing entire and multiple seasons of inconsistency and rubbish from some of these players and shifting it all to the many managers we've had again and again. That doesn't mean those managers were blameless, I just can't understand how people can ignore these consistent failures from the players and then act all surprised when it happens again under a different manager.

The three have been more good than bad in recent years actually. Rashford is having a poor season indeed but he was a very important player for us the previous few years and it's very harsh to consider him as a failure when he's one of the main reasons Ole and Ten Hag achieved what they did.

Lindelof has actually been very consistent if not underrated by our fans. He's not a top player indeed but he has been performing at no less than 6 or 7/10 ever since Ole took the job and up till now still does decently well whenever called to the first team. People might not like his style but he hasn't been a failure and I think the club got its money worth it from this deal. I was saying the same regarding Fred for example, whom people kept calling him a failure but I'm of the opinion it ended up being 50m well spent.

Shaw has been great for most of time since 2018 except for the odd period here and there. His injuries are just the issue. I mean people here are considering his absence as a huge issue, but he has been a failure ?

I don't care about Ten Hag or the upcoming manager anymore and surprisingly I haven't watched United since Newport game without feeling a regret. Didn't even watch today's game and I'm not in it tonight to discuss Ten Hag as I have given up on the whole process and the continuous false dawns United keep giving us, until something changes I'm done. I just feel it's way too harsh to consider these players a failure. Criticize them alright but they haven't been bad signings at all.

 

[bosnian_red]

You honestly think Arsenal, City or Liverpool would actively chase for Bruno? And you reckon I’m deluded! The amount he gives the ball away is ridiculous and they wouldn’t put up with his indiscipline both positionally and, well discipline, given how often he loses it.

Dalot was at Milan before their recent resurgence, and is ahead of the same Cancelo that Pep binned off last summer, not the best example either.

Klopp and Liverpool for sure would have gone for Bruno. He needs a manager to give him discipline, but he's been brilliant during his time here. He doesn't fit Pep and Arteta so much and they have Odegaard and De Bruyne, so it's a dumb comparison. You don't buy players for which you already have top ones in that position. Teams who don't have top class #10's or attacking mids would be after him. Just now you have to consider age as well. 30 year olds don't have much of a market.
Has he dropped a level this season or is it a loss of form, who knows, but it's too soon to say he's done as a player.

That same cancelo you mean that went to Bayer and Barcelona? Dalot would get interest from loads of big clubs.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Yep. Ten Hag made so much sense on paper, he just turned out to be another charlatan. These things happen. The worst thing we can do is continue to prolong the inevitable

The perfect word.

 

[Jericholyte2]

Klopp and Liverpool for sure would have gone for Bruno. He needs a manager to give him discipline, but he's been brilliant during his time here. He doesn't fit Pep and Arteta so much and they have Odegaard and De Bruyne, so it's a dumb comparison. You don't buy players for which you already have top ones in that position. Teams who don't have top class #10's or attacking mids would be after him. Just now you have to consider age as well. 30 year olds don't have much of a market.
Has he dropped a level this season or is it a loss of form, who knows, but it's too soon to say he's done as a player.

That same cancelo you mean that went to Bayer and Barcelona? Dalot would get interest from loads of big clubs.

So Pep and Arteta would sign him…if it wasn’t for the fact that they have better players in his position and he’s getting older, did I read that right?

I’m not saying he hasn’t been great for us, quite possibly the best post-Fergie signing, but which ‘big club’ would swap their current No.10 for him?

 

[Lay]

Finished bottom in a group consisting of Galatasaray (who just got knocked out of the EL) and Copenhagen.
GD is 0
One of the lowest goal tallies in the league
Outplayed by every team minus Chelsea and Palace in the Carabao Cup
Barely beat anyone decent away
Builds a tactic that has no midfield structure in place
Lost 3-0 at home to Bournemouth
Lost 7-0 to Liverpool
£400m spent and the teams looks worse than it ever has in the EPL era
Makes terrible subs

Yet, a few people still think he shouldn't be sacked.

 

[Ace]

That is bad management.

For those that think the answer is, get him more players, what happens when one of them gets injured again?

As bad as his football has been, his management of the roster has been worse. Spent half of a billion in three transfer windows and our squad is worse than its ever been. By my count, just about every single position needs strengthening and ten Hag should not be tasked with that given his record.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

As bad as his football has been, his management of the roster has been worse. Spent half of a billion in three transfer windows and our squad is worse than its ever been. By my count, just about every single position needs strengthening and ten Hag should not be tasked with that given his record.

There’s an argument that he shouldn’t be the one spending the money but look at Antony, forget the fee [hard I know], somehow he’s regressed as a footballer & he was the biggest example of the type of signing that should beat fruit. He’d played under the manager before & was signed at his behest, how on earth he’s regressed should lead to an inquest.

Mainoo & somewhat, Garnacho are talents that would just come through regardless. Bar them who else is a far better player, outside of natural progression you’d expect? No one. Maybe Dalot? Even McTominay had to go on a goal scoring run for Scotland in order to get that role under EtH.

I honestly don’t see how anyone can see what EtH has done this season & blame everything else but the man himself. Is he solely responsible? No but to act like he holds no responsibility is beyond disingenuous.

 

[El Zoido]

435 shots against us this season in the league, with only Sheffield United having more against. It’s appalling, and 100% a management issue. We’re definitely not getting CL now, so he’s a goner in the summer.

 

[BorisManUtd]

435 shots against us this season in the league, with only Sheffield United having more against. It’s appalling, and 100% a management issue. We’re definitely not getting CL now, so he’s a goner in the summer.

Yeah, only a fluke Fa Cup win could make this season bearable.

 

[Woziak]

Onana was in the CL final last year at the best team in Italy.
Dalot starts ahead of Cancelo for Portugal. He would be wanted by big teams. He went on loan to Milan a few years ago and was a starter while he developed there.
Varane is just in his twilight years and gets injured too much, but is class otherwise. Same with Case. He was seen as the best DM in the league last season, best in the world 18 months ago.
Bruno would be wanted by big clubs of course. Ridiculous to say villa or Spurs FFS. Embarassing reaction to a loss of form.
Rashford would draw interest from all over, likely PSG.

This post is ridiculous. It is proven time and time again, that a collective loss of form is much more down to coaching and system failures than everyone just being shit players. It's the managers job to get the most of the players, and he's not doing that.

This is a sensible statement because before ETH spent £180m this summer his old Trafford last season was the best since Sir Alex with a record of P19 W15 D3 L1 GS36 GC10 GD+26 - 48 points
Points per game 2.52
Goals scored per game 1.89
Goals conceded per game 0.52

To P13 W7 D1 L5 GS19 GC20 GD-1 Pts 22
Points per game 1.69
Goals scored per game 1.53
Goals conceded per game 1.54

The stubborn ETH persists with his 4-1-4-1 or 4-1-2-3 where his midfield has no distance control and he he doesn’t have the right players to play this formation, To many of our attackers are careless with the ball which is why teams reverse counter and run through the team far too easily, it’s simple really Old Trafford was designed with the widest and longest pitch allowed to allow the club to play an attacking 442 which attacked constantly, won the ball back with high intensity in the midfield third then Penned the opposition in their own penalty box.

To try and play 4-1-2-3 in full flow or 3-2-2-3 out of possession allows far to much space due to the width of old Trafford, our stubborn coach got it right last season he did his due diligence and had hard working players like Fred, AWB, Weghorst and Sabitzer did all the hard work for Bruno, Eriksen and Rashford plus Casemiro was 1 year and a whole lot better , people forget he made the Fifpro team.

Right now we need a tactical coach who knows how to get another 24-27 points this season to make Europa Leagie and give the club a chance to build next season, forget CL this team will get knocked out at the group stage again, our target must be 6th place and replace the coach after the City Game.

That’s how a big club would operate, give a new coach 10 games to get his ideas across, access the squad and be ready for a full pre season and the most important transfer window in United’s history because from where I’m looking we need 13 or 14 out of the squad and 9 or 10 in ?

 

[Suv666]

It's much easier to have a 1 season impact with a unique style. It's also very flawed to just trust in that fully. Managers have to constantly adapt and progress, other managers try to figure them out and you have to adapt to them. Especially in this league. Managers have simply figured out how to counter his system, and he hasn't adapted.

I don’t think it’s that.
The system he tries to play seems to be very different from the one employed last season.
The quick transition bs, I didn’t hear about it last season, he conjured that up for this season. This weird way where we don’t have a midfield and the attack and defence are totally isolated.
Whatever we were doing was working last season, should have stuck to it.

Whatever ETH’s system is it doesn’t work at the top level or needs some serious refinements.

 

[Suv666]

Today with what was available we need to dominate lllllll ll


A new boardroom, a new CEO, a new DoF the club must have a new Manager/Coach who can evaluate the squad and come to the conclusion that most fans have 75% of the squad is not fit for purpose, it’s not how many players should go, it’s really time to have a complete reset.

So many mistakes start with the keeper Get rid of Onana bring in Diego Costa. Then create a transfer strategy over 4 windows which recruits a further 4/5 hungry young elite per window and gets rid of at least 15-16 from this squad in the next two transfer windows!

Yeah this is the way it should be.
A complete reset. I don’t expect an exodus of player overnight but yeah the goal should be replacing the spine of this team in 2-3 years.

ETH has failed on the field and in the market, if he was doing somewhat decent, there would be an argument about keeping him on, but it’s a no brainer really, getting rid of him. They didn’t hire him, he’s been horrendous ETH doesn’t really have anything going for him.

 

[Mike Smalling]

The transfers under ETH has likely set us back years in terms of building a competitive squad. Cssemiro was short sighted, Antony a complete miss, Mount a misfit, Malacia not good enough. Only Højlund is looking good for the longterm squad.

ETH should consider himself lucky that Garnacho and Mainoo have come through - imagine if we didn’t have them.

 

[Woziak]

It's much easier to have a 1 season impact with a unique style. It's also very flawed to just trust in that fully. Managers have to constantly adapt and progress, other managers try to figure them out and you have to adapt to them. Especially in this league. Managers have simply figured out how to counter his system, and he hasn't adapted.

I would add to that he’s tried to be too clever I’ll explain?

Last season his team got 48 points at home and had a 79% home win rate. He’s worked under Pep and probably looked at the 14 point difference to be win the league and thought he would need to

1. Score more Goals
2. win far more away games

His away record last year was
P19 W8 D3 L8 GS22 GC33 - 11GD Pts 27

This year
P13 W7 D1 L5 GS17 GC16 +1 GD Pts 22

ETH was naive enough to think he could make up the 14 points and play a more expansive football with a 4-1-2-3 formation like city had been for half of decade they have two roaming hybrid 8/10’s multiple wing options and CB’s who can all play a high line because their quick and exceptional on the ball, he’s played to his own arrogance not the squad strengths and he’s weakened the team immeasurably by removing players like Sabitzer, Garner, Fred and Hanibal from our midfield.

All of whom have legs and can get around the pitch to replace them with players like Sofran Amrabat, let this sink in we could have bought Sabitzer for £3.5m than the cost to loan Amrabat!

I’m pretty sure De Zerbi, Naigelsman or Tuchel will be the next coach, the fact they are putting themselves forward suggests that Brailsford may have been leaking out information to certain agents.

 

[The Irish Connection]

It’s the way we’re set up tactically in midfield and his refusal to change that annoys me the most. We can’t build up properly. And Mainoo, our best midfielder on the ball, is asked to stay in the 10 position almost hiding from build up.

 

[spwd]

If this season is a lost cause already, why give him until the end of the season? May as well get a replacement manager with some games under the belt to assess the squad if that’s possible.

Doesn't need to be a full time replacement. Basically anyone but Erik.

I love the fact that when everyone is trying to say that certain phrase on here it's coming up as Pep Guardiola is my idol

What's this about?

The best option is to let Erik go now and give his replacement the rest of the season to assess the squad and determine exactly what is needed to be done in the summer window.

See above. It's been obvious for most of us for some time that he's not good enough and maybe getting rid now would give the players a boost and see how they do for the rest of the season without the bad smell hanging around.
He's not making or made any players better but done the opposite so get rid immediately.

In a perfect world, yes. Just don't see a viable option the middle of the season.

See above.
I'd put literally anyone but him in there. Get keano in even to kick the lazy feckers up the arse and drill into them what it means to be a united player.
Just get back to basics because this shite isn't working. We don't score enough, we let too many in and 435 shots is fecking mental.

 

[gza the genius]

Front 3 have been actually creating and scoring the past couple of games (relative to the rest of this season) so when a striker gets injured instead of just doing a straight swap and keeping the others in the position they've been playing well in he decides to move every single player in the front 3 to a position they're worse in. Smart. Wonder why it didn't work.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

"The team showed great character" why does he always have to say that after every game/loss. "We created our chances, we could have won."
Why can't he just say I'm not pleased with today's performance, or something, for once.

 

[roseguy64]

Dalot - failed under Jose, Ole
Varane - failed under Ole
Maguire - failed under Ole
Lindelof - failed under Jose and Ole
Casemiro - failed this season under ETH
Mainoo - hasn’t failed anyone
Forson - n/a
Bruno - Burnt out under Ole
Garnacho - hasn’t failed anyone
Rashford - failed under LvG, Jose, and Ole

Others include:
Martial - failed under LvG, Jose and Ole
Shaw - failed under Jose and Ole
McT - failed under Jose and Ole
AWB - failed under Ole

So what magic wand could ETH wield to turn these guys into consistent title challengers?

What's your definition of failure as it means here?

 

[roseguy64]

So Pep and Arteta would sign him…if it wasn’t for the fact that they have better players in his position and he’s getting older, did I read that right?

I’m not saying he hasn’t been great for us, quite possibly the best post-Fergie signing, but which ‘big club’ would swap their current No.10 for him?

Pretty sure he didn't say Odegaard and KDB are better. But even if the poster was saying that they're better, the difference between all 3 of them is miniscule. KDB and Bruno produce similar stats, just one plays in a better team so what he does comes off more.

 

[AshRK]

More than the performances I am more upset with his post match interviews. Last season he used to say the right things and used to critique players but I feel the sancho incident has dented his confidence and he is afraid to call out players in public. Feel he is on thin ice.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

I don’t know why I keep feeling the urge to defend him. After that boring, barely coherent mess we saw against Fulham - at home - it really makes one wonder what they do in training.

The entire plan seemed to be pump a hopeful ball over the top and pray for magic. There were no runs off the ball, no late arriving third man, no overloads, not even any crisp one-touch passing. They didn’t look like professionals. Missing 2 defenders and a striker shouldn’t have made us look like the Dog & Duck, but we did.

They can sack him, I don’t care anymore. His signings Antony, Malacia, Onana too, are nowhere near good enough but I don’t think he sees them that way. After watching 5 minutes of the Newcastle v Arsenal game it was obvious how far off we are from looking like winners. He’s had enough time to get this bunch to look like pros.

 

[Redstain]

For those bringing up Ajax days... it's just different doing this in the prem than the Eredivisie.

Have seen quite a few videos on this and the spaces are very apparent. It's evident that the shape of the team in the attacking third resembles what the manager illustrated at Ajax but the speed and physicality of the league means it's far more detrimental when the opposition get the transition and the team is carved open when running back to goal.

I heard a perfect description that defines the current regime of the manager 'Utd either win unconvincingly or they lose deservedly'. Aside two to three months of good form last year, that statement has defined Erik's tenure here.

United aren't building towards anything on the pitch, you can't invest in a manager if he can't deliver a functioning system. That's the differentiator between Arteta, Klopp and Guardiola.

Lastly, the notion that previous managers have failed exclusively due to the structure is a fallacious argument and that's in relation to SJR statement. It's like saying that every manager should succeed regardless of their own contribution in their managerial responsibilities. If that's the case then why are the managers always the outliers? Klopp and Rodgers both worked under Edwards but Jurgen was the more successful not down to structure but his managerial credibility. The same can be said for every world class manager in the game they are the outliers not the structure.

 

[miliebrowndivorceattorney]

Pretty sure he didn't say Odegaard and KDB are better. But even if the poster was saying that they're better, the difference between all 3 of them is miniscule. KDB and Bruno produce similar stats, just one plays in a better team so what he does comes off more.

De Bruyne is rated 109th and Bruno 58th. Yet KDB played 7, 1 goal and 4 assists. Bruno, played 25, 3 goals and just 5 assists.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/scorerliste/wettbewerb/GB1

Ok, Odegaard then. Rated 29th 5 goals, 7 assist out of 23 played.

If you ask me Bruno is not producing the goods. The 'poor'Ten Hag tactics had him 8 or 9 times at the edge of the box in promising positions. Wasting shot after shot, mis aiming pass after pass. He plays like a semi forward when he supposed to be midfielder. Hell, the captain.

Ten Hag can do only so much. Maybe blame him for putting Bruno on the field in the first place? But this is just the level of the squad. I do believe Bruno's position, is one of the top target transfers this coming summer. He simply isnt good enough and the stats prove it.