Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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ETH has turned the corner and manages to bring united back to winning ways. Other than City, Arsenal and Liverpool, the rest of the clubs are reasonably easy to catch up with. United can go for Top 4.
Before we get carried away let’s just see how we do this weekend against Villa. Villa are going through a bit of a slump and we should be going into this game with huge confidence.
It’s a big negative that our best defender has gone and got injured again though and the team will miss him, I might have a crafty tenner on Utd getting top four after this depending on the result. If we do get top 4 then ETH will stay, and continue to build, at least I hope so.
 

It all depends on how they view a poor end to season. For me it would be a poor end to the season if we do not finish in the Top 5. One of Villa or Spurs will fall off and if we are not able to capitalise, that would be a bad end to the season.
 
Not sacking him is the right move, but no one would survive another string of bad results.

Even without Martinez, we should be able to continue to improve. Let’s hope we don‘t get further derailed by injuries.
 
Not sacking him is the right move, but no one would survive another string of bad results.

Even without Martinez, we should be able to continue to improve. Let’s hope we don‘t get further derailed by injuries.
Absolutely. Just by having Casemiro back and shaw, our play is much better. Casemiro allows the forwards to express them selves aswell
 
I think we just need to wait until the summer to decide anything. At that point he will have 12 months left on his contract and decisions will have to be made about the structure and potentially changing what's stated in his contract.

If there is not a mutual understanding then they will go their separate ways. I just don't think interim managers are ever a good idea. He may not have lived up to expectations but I still feel we can get there if he has the proper structure and support.
 
This is an area where I feel ten Hag has done an outstanding job in. He deserves a lot of praise for how he's managed Garnacho and Mainoo this season.
Surely this is what we expect. they are also both great talents and Antony, who ETH signed for a lot of money, is garbage. We also had a massive hole in the middle of the park that Mount isn't going to fill even when fit and we all know MCT isnt up to it and Eriksen is too old now. The bank account is also empty. So its good to see, but 'outstanding job'. Really? Lets have some perspective
 
Surely this is what we expect. they are also both great talents and Antony, who ETH signed for a lot of money, is garbage. We also had a massive hole in the middle of the park that Mount isn't going to fill even when fit and we all know MCT isnt up to it and Eriksen is too old now. The bank account is also empty. So its good to see, but 'outstanding job'. Really? Lets have some perspective
What's Antony got to do with ETH being pretty successful so far at bringing through and integrating academy talent? He has done an outstanding job in that regard.
 
I feel had ETH initially set the team up with more youth the fans wouldn't be on his back so much.
I mean, some fans were willing to give LVG another season off the back of him integrating more youth into the side.
 


If that's what they want, fine. But it better result in us playing good football. To make this decision given our performances, they HAVE to know that his systems can work. If we go into next season looking as open and vulnerable as we have, regardless of decisions, INEOS are going to have a sour start to their time here, as given the evidence we've seen, it could be a detrimental decision. We can't waste another season with a bad start.
 
Surely this is what we expect. they are also both great talents and Antony, who ETH signed for a lot of money, is garbage. We also had a massive hole in the middle of the park that Mount isn't going to fill even when fit and we all know MCT isnt up to it and Eriksen is too old now. The bank account is also empty. So its good to see, but 'outstanding job'. Really? Lets have some perspective
What has that got to do with what I just said? :lol:
 

This is what everyone has been saying and what makes sense. Let him have until end of season unless we absolutely nose dive, he's had to deal with more off the field issues than anyone, it's only now really settling.

We're on track for about 63 points in a season where we've had awful injuries so you'd hope that will rise slightly, the sad fact is our points finishes haven't been that great for a long time; 75, 58, 74, 66, 66, 81, 69, 66, 70. so we'll likely end up around 65-70 points. Recently if you hit 70+ points you are in the top 4, it's not that inconceivable we can get 32/45 points remaining. That allows us to lose to Pool, City and Arsenal (even with two of them being at home) with a good number of points spare. Beating Villa on Sunday will give us huge momentum.
 
This is an area where I feel ten Hag has done an outstanding job in. He deserves a lot of praise for how he's managed Garnacho and Mainoo this season.

Honestly I’m thrilled both are such big players for us currently, but I struggle to praise ETH a ton for that because it’s not like he made some really tough decisions to play both over other higher regarded players. We had no choice, Garnacho was the only forward that ever looked like creating something often times and we didn’t have a single midfielder that could play deeper apart from Mainoo.

Now obviously I have no idea how much influence and development he’s given them in training as it could be loads, just saying I’m not worshipping ETH for making decisions any half decent manager would make. Similar to LVG bringing in Rashford and he accidentally became a star because we didn’t have a fit striker at the time.
 
If that's what they want, fine. But it better result in us playing good football. To make this decision given our performances, they HAVE to know that his systems can work. If we go into next season looking as open and vulnerable as we have, regardless of decisions, INEOS are going to have a sour start to their time here, as given the evidence we've seen, it could be a detrimental decision. We can't waste another season with a bad start.

Exactly. I hate the idea of looking strictly at results because if we are the exact same team but happen to scrape more points because our forwards are in good form but every game is ropey, that’s not a cause for celebration.
 
I can almost guarantee you all that if Ineos decides to part ways with him in the summer,
Barcelona will be the ones to jump on this, take him as their manager and he'll make them a great team.
I don't want him to leave us, and I'm sure that if we'll bring some capable people to the club to support him from top to bottom he'll be successful with us.

That won’t happen. You can almost guarantee that City are going to dismiss Pep the minute they realize ETH is available, and with him being settled in Manchester already and them having a better footballing structure in place, he is guaranteed to pick them over Barcelona, Bayern and Real Madrid who will submit concurrent offers.
 
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Yeah, fair enough. Gone, anyway.
I think Ten Hag won't want to relinquish his power over transfers so they will have to come to a mutual agreement.

I'd be surprised if he changes the terms of his contract and stays although that would be good I think. Just don't see that happening.
 
I think Ten Hag won't want to relinquish his power over transfers so they will have to come to a mutual agreement.

I'd be surprised if he changes the terms of his contract and stays although that would be good I think. Just don't see that happening.
He didnt have sole say at Ajax, and the only reason I think he wanted more control here is because he didnt trust our structure (especially given public warnings from LVG).
I don't think he'd be as cold toward the new ownership though, he'd likely adapt and accomodate.
 
He didnt have sole say at Ajax, and the only reason I think he wanted more control here is because he didnt trust our structure (especially given public warnings from LVG).
I don't think he'd be as cold toward the new ownership though, he'd likely adapt and accomodate.
I'm just going off some of the latest reports. Seems like he doesn't want to lose control.

Sources have told ESPN that Ten Hag is reluctant to give up any power in the new structure, especially his major role in the identification of transfer targets

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/sto...hag-trouble-ratcliffe-gets-started-man-united
 
It's a sticky situation. If results and performances pick up now we have a near full fit squad available, he probably does deserve to see next season. Some of his transfers have been very poor, but that will be taken out of his control now. Going into next season as manager with only a year left on his contract could also be difficult to navigate.
 
Honestly I’m thrilled both are such big players for us currently, but I struggle to praise ETH a ton for that because it’s not like he made some really tough decisions to play both over other higher regarded players. We had no choice, Garnacho was the only forward that ever looked like creating something often times and we didn’t have a single midfielder that could play deeper apart from Mainoo.

Now obviously I have no idea how much influence and development he’s given them in training as it could be loads, just saying I’m not worshipping ETH for making decisions any half decent manager would make. Similar to LVG bringing in Rashford and he accidentally became a star because we didn’t have a fit striker at the time.

All the evidence suggests that the players coming through are having to abide by higher standards in order to get chances in the first team, but also if they do it seems they get games. Its pretty much what we've been crying out for for years as far as I can tell.

On a personal level I'm a huge fan of Ten Hag and his style, my only question is whether he can improve tactically because sometimes we seem far too open, and yet we've also often struggled to score goals. If the young forwards do continue to click though then you'd imagine it makes it easier to play a more conservative style in midfield when he needs to, so fingers crossed on that front.

Ref all the grief he gets about his transfers, I'd hope that with all the scouts, football directors, technical staff, analysts etc. at the club then we can make a structure that delivers the right transfers regardless of whether the manager is good at picking them or not. We were already supposed to have that so if we've had shit transfers I'm not blaming him, regardless of whether the players were "his men" or not.
 
It's a sticky situation. If results and performances pick up now we have a near full fit squad available, he probably does deserve to see next season. Some of his transfers have been very poor, but that will be taken out of his control now. Going into next season as manager with only a year left on his contract could also be difficult to navigate.

I don't think so. We will sit down and either give him a new contract and back him going forward or come to an agreement to part ways and get a new manager. I don't see any scenario where it doesn't get totally resolved in the summer.

It will all start to happen properly once we get the DOF and Head of recruitment in. Then ETH will decide whether he wants to work in that structure or leave. If he wants to then he'll get a new 2/3 year deal I think.
 
I don't think so. We will sit down and either give him a new contract and back him going forward or come to an agreement to part ways and get a new manager. I don't see any scenario where it doesn't get totally resolved in the summer.

It will all start to happen properly once we get the DOF and Head of recruitment in. Then ETH will decide whether he wants to work in that structure or leave. If he wants to then he'll get a new 2/3 year deal I think.
He might deserve to see next season but I'm not sure you could justify a new contract, not right now anyway. It's difficult, I think. I don't see INEOS giving him a new contract this year, unless we finish the season extremely strongly.
 
He might deserve to see next season but I'm not sure you could justify a new contract, not right now anyway. It's difficult, I think. I don't see INEOS giving him a new contract this year, unless we finish the season extremely strongly.
He will need a "new" contract to stay. He has stuff in there regarding his control over recruitment etc. That needs to be changed. I expect as a reward for agreeing to the new structure they give him a short extension to give him their backing.
 
He will need a "new" contract to stay. He has stuff in there regarding his control over recruitment etc. That needs to be changed. I expect as a reward for agreeing to the new structure they give him a short extension to give him their backing.
True points. In any case, I do think he needs a strong finish to the season for any of this to be considered. If our season finishes as poorly as it begun then I don't see him being kept on.
 
This is an area where I feel ten Hag has done an outstanding job in. He deserves a lot of praise for how he's managed Garnacho and Mainoo this season.
Dalot last season too. Keep saying it but i just never saw anything outstanding whatsoever about him until he played under EtH for the first half of last season. Still only 24 too.
 
I don't think so. We will sit down and either give him a new contract and back him going forward or come to an agreement to part ways and get a new manager. I don't see any scenario where it doesn't get totally resolved in the summer.

It will all start to happen properly once we get the DOF and Head of recruitment in. Then ETH will decide whether he wants to work in that structure or leave. If he wants to then he'll get a new 2/3 year deal I think.

Of course he'll say yes, what other options does he have? He'll end up back at Ajax if he left United this summer, but certainly won't be getting a job of this calibre again any time soon.

Personally I don't think he deserves to stay on this season, there are so many red flags about him already and I don't think he's got the quality as a coach to bridge the gap between us and City/Arsenal. I think Spurs, with good recruitment, under Ange, will be there before us at this rate. If we had that Spurs squad under ETH we'd be absolutely nowhere, and that tells you all you need to know about the level of coaching he's up against.

I suspect we'll beat villa again as their tactics are exactly what we're set up to exploit, and everyone will think we're back. But I reckon the wheels will be off again before the season is out.
 
Of course he'll say yes, what other options does he have? He'll end up back at Ajax if he left United this summer, but certainly won't be getting a job of this calibre again any time soon.

Personally I don't think he deserves to stay on this season, there are so many red flags about him already and I don't think he's got the quality as a coach to bridge the gap between us and City/Arsenal. I think Spurs, with good recruitment, under Ange, will be there before us at this rate. If we had that Spurs squad under ETH we'd be absolutely nowhere, and that tells you all you need to know about the level of coaching he's up against.

I suspect we'll beat villa again as their tactics are exactly what we're set up to exploit, and everyone will think we're back. But I reckon the wheels will be off again before the season is out.

There's an opening at Barcelona and Liverpool coming up, possibly Bayern soon as well and Real Madrid within the next 1-2 years.
 
Honestly I’m thrilled both are such big players for us currently, but I struggle to praise ETH a ton for that because it’s not like he made some really tough decisions to play both over other higher regarded players. We had no choice, Garnacho was the only forward that ever looked like creating something often times and we didn’t have a single midfielder that could play deeper apart from Mainoo.

Now obviously I have no idea how much influence and development he’s given them in training as it could be loads, just saying I’m not worshipping ETH for making decisions any half decent manager would make. Similar to LVG bringing in Rashford and he accidentally became a star because we didn’t have a fit striker at the time.

I disagree. I think ETH should get credit for developing both Garnacho and Mainoo.

The counter example would be what Moyes did with Januzaj. Whereas ETH has brought him along more slowly.

And Mainoo too cuz he was starting Mainoo in pre season. That was his plan, to go with Mainoo as starter. He could very well have chosen to buy another deeper CM but decided Mainoo was his choice.
 
There's an opening at Barcelona and Liverpool coming up, possibly Bayern soon as well and Real Madrid within the next 1-2 years.

Not to mention the next level of clubs such as Dortmund or Leipzig etc..
 
That was his plan, to go with Mainoo as starter. He could very well have chosen to buy another deeper CM but decided Mainoo was his choice.

He did buy a player for that position (Mount). He was supposed to be the second #8 with Eriksen behind him. Mainoo got a bit lucky because Eriksen's form fell off a cliff and Mount was perma injured.

Not saying he doesn't deserve credit for developing Mainoo, but let's be honest that he was not going to be the first choice #8 before the season started.
 
Big game Sunday for him. Villa despite a poor result during the week are a good side. I'd like to see.him learn from going 2 down the last time and actually make positive subs during the game that affect the game. That's where the jury's out for me on him.
 
Ten Hag absolutely deserves credit for his promoting and handling of Mainoo and Garnacho, playing teenagers is always a risk, Ten Hag had other options available when he began picking Mainoo and Garnacho. Garnacho became the obvious choice because Ten Hag was willing to give him a chance. He’s also started giving minutes to Forson and Kambwala. He’s got a lot of faults, what he’s been doing with our teenage talent deserves credit.
 
Ten Hag absolutely deserves credit for his promoting and handling of Mainoo and Garnacho, playing teenagers is always a risk, Ten Hag had other options available when he began picking Mainoo and Garnacho. Garnacho became the obvious choice because Ten Hag was willing to give him a chance. He’s also started giving minutes to Forson and Kambwala. He’s got a lot of faults, what he’s been doing with our teenage talent deserves credit.

For me, my criticism of him has to do with the system we've been using. I don't personally think any manager deserves a second chance when they've had a decent amount of time to employ their tactics. He's been really stubborn this season in sticking with the 4141. It doesn't work fundamentally and is the reason, moreso than injuries, we've been as poor as we have been so far this season. Each week we are either winning poor uncontrolled games or losing is a lost week. This season, almost every single week can be considered lost. It's been clear the current system employed hasn't worked since August. He has only attempted to change this once against Brighton, and outside of that, has stuck to the same formation.

I don't think the formation works with the strategy he's trying to employ. The 4141 is far too aggressive in attack and can leave a team exposed to the counter. City's employment of inverted full backs in 2018, allowed this to work, as the team wasn't open to as many quick transitions due to the extra cover. In addition to this, on the ball, City play a measured brand of football, rarely using transitions. This means that they are always in set positions to deal with potential counters. United, on the other hand, are way too fluid, direct and dependent on transition play.

The fluidity we employ starts from our build up, with our defenders having to move into different shapes to move the ball. When moving to midfield, one of our full backs moves into midfield, whilst the other flies up the pitch. Two of our midfielders press high, leaving one exposed, with our transition expecting one of them to drop back. Even our press is sometimes fluid, with wide players moving centrally, leaving gaps on the flanks. This many movements and transitions leaves our team quite shapeless, particularly on the counter. It's far harder to find structure under this shapeless premise when playing a fast transition game, as opposed to one that's slower and more measured. This then leads to us constantly losing the ball, as our players struggle to find teammates due to their positions on the pitch being vague, or they get countered quite easily as they are constantly out of shape and can't get into shape quickly enough to stop the opposition. It's a tactical issue, that some poor individual performances mask.

A set formation with less fluid components would really help this team and Ten Haag. He can still employ some of the systems used at Ajax, but with formation and strategy tweaks that allow it to work in England. For example, already employing a back 3 from the start of the game, would negate us having to transition to a 3 whilst trying to build up. So employing a 343 might work for what he wants to do tactically in England. My concern with him is that despite having the opportunity to do so, he hasn't actually experimented enough, given his current system has been failing since August. Instead of folding his arms and waiting for Licha to come back, he should be looking at the best tactical solutions to getting the team to play good football. That's what I'm hoping he can do, If not, I just don't see the point of keeping him.
 
Ten Hag absolutely deserves credit for his promoting and handling of Mainoo and Garnacho, playing teenagers is always a risk, Ten Hag had other options available when he began picking Mainoo and Garnacho. Garnacho became the obvious choice because Ten Hag was willing to give him a chance. He’s also started giving minutes to Forson and Kambwala. He’s got a lot of faults, what he’s been doing with our teenage talent deserves credit.

Yeah not really
 
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