Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[dubplate warrior]

Can we get a manager in that can actually implement a 4-3-3 with pressing, slick passing and wingers/full backs overlapping. Giving Bruno basically a free role and a two man midfield will not give us long term success. So sick of this 4-2-3-1 it doesn’t work.

We need fullbacks who can overlap throughout the match at a high intensity and are good on the ball.

We need midfielders who can receive the ball under pressure, shield the ball and pass through the lines.

We need management strong enough to go against the fanbase and get rid of Bruno.

 

[united for life]

The injuries excuse are overblown. These would have been fine as an excuse for us not being among top 4 at this stage, but they're really not an excuse for us being 7th after 21 games about 11 points away from 4th (if Arsenal won their game in hand), scoring only 24 goals in 21 games with -5 goal difference and being out of CL bottom of the group with one win out of 6 games in a group that had Copenhagen and Galatasaray.

I don't understand how can injuries be a valid excuse for just ridiculous collapse.

An injuries = drop of form = for a team who was 3rd last year, that would have meant being 5th or 6th and at least not being completely out of Europe by this stage. Considering Chelsea and Newcastle are both having a crisis and we're basically fighting West Ham and Aston Villa for a top 4 spot, not one of the top guns.

well this conclusion is subjective isn’t it? For me, injuries have been a key factor in this terrible season. This season, we have started a lot of different back 4 for example (really cant remember how many based on an article i read). This hurts our consistency and team chemistry.

i am not saying he is flawless and should not be challenged for better results, but the circumstances, including injuries, have not been on his side.

 

[DJ_21]

I don't think anyone can deny that, Ole January 2020 to end of season was the best football any of us have seen post Fergie. LVG had a run of 3 great games in his first season before it all went to shit again.

I do remember LVG being the one that got decent results against the top teams but couldn’t beat the less teams. The game at Anfield was one of his best and the 4-2 against city.

 

[KD6-3.7]

I just see this as delaying the inevitable. Even if we take away Ten Hag’s responsibility over transfers we are still going to be stuck with his non existent game plan and questionable in game management.

What we simply need to do is to gut the club from top to bottom and start completely fresh rather then these half ars*d rebuilds we have been doing the last decade.

 

[AltiUn]

The injuries excuse are overblown. These would have been fine as an excuse for us not being among top 4 at this stage, but they're really not an excuse for us being 7th after 21 games about 11 points away from 4th (if Arsenal won their game in hand), scoring only 24 goals in 21 games with -5 goal difference and being out of CL bottom of the group with one win out of 6 games in a group that had Copenhagen and Galatasaray.

I don't understand how can injuries be a valid excuse for just ridiculous collapse.

An injuries = drop of form = for a team who was 3rd last year, that would have meant being 5th or 6th and at least not being completely out of Europe by this stage. Considering Chelsea and Newcastle are both having a crisis and we're basically fighting West Ham and Aston Villa for a top 4 spot, not one of the top guns.

It's really not, our spine from last season has been decimated. There's plenty to complain about but I think it weakens your point if you try to downplay the injuries we've faced.

 

[AndySmith1990]

It's really not, our spine from last season has been decimated. There's plenty to complain about but I think it weakens your point if you try to downplay the injuries we've faced.

The spine of Martinez and Casemiro?

 

[sglowrider]

What we simply need to do is to gut the club from top to bottom and start completely fresh rather then these half ars*d rebuilds we have been doing the last decade.

I hear that here a lot... Completely gutting of the club from top to bottom.

What does that entail?

 

[The Mitcher]

I mean after 2013. My bad, i was thinking It was obvious that I wouldn't compare him with our greatest.

Ole out performed him in the league and plauyed better football, and Mourinho won more trophies. Hardly our best.

 

[AltiUn]

The spine of Martinez and Casemiro?

Varane's missed a load of games too. Eriksen's had injury issues as well. That was the core of our team last season.

 

[tjb]

whoever is the manager, i’d like to judge him in an overall better context. Better football director, better scouts, better owners, etc… this is why i am with giving him more time under a new ownership and improved management - hopefully

Shouldn't we do that with players then too. That's just way too much time for a team looking to improve waiting for a result that has already failed before. It's like saying we should keep Antony as we don't know how he would look under a new manager. He's already shown us he's one footed and isn't creative. Why waste time.

 

[The Mitcher]

Varane's missed a load of games too. Eriksen's had injury issues as well. That was the core of our team last season.

Varane's ALWAYS misses loads of games, he's injury prone. Eriksen hasn't been important since his injury last season.

 

[meninred]

TO me, The first thing Ten hag should do to minimize disaster class performance is to stop playing two Numbers 10's as two number 8's.
It is kind of an outdated style of football (esp in premier league.) I think Brazil used to play that in the old days.
Maybe it worked at ajax at that time. He needs to know he has to adapt quickly as a coach. I cant believe they don't realize that and need to be reminded by fans

 

[el3mel]

It's really not, our spine from last season has been decimated. There's plenty to complain about but I think it weakens your point if you try to downplay the injuries we've faced.

It's overblown excuse really.

The only notable absence has been Martinez and he has become way, way overrated thanks to his long term absence.

Varane returned from injury and yet set on the bench for many games for Maguire anyway.

Mount was dropped to the bench to Scott McTominay even while being fit.

Casemiro has been terrible whenever he played this season yet you're telling his absence is now a crisis.

Eriksen has been terrible whenever he started a game this year and only performed well as a bench option.

Shaw returned and played games and we were still crap anyway.

Meanwhile our attacking lineup has been mostly intact with no injuries throughout the season : Antony, Rashford, Bruno, Garnacho, Martial. Yet we only scored 24 goals in 21 games.

Yeah, it's an overblown excuse, and I'll say it again, the long time out has made Martinez the most overrated player at Man United. He's a good player but he's not Maldini for his absence to be that grave, for God's sake.

 

[VP89]

It's overblown excuse really.

The only notable absence has been Martinez and he has become way, way overrated thanks to his long term absence.

Varane returned from injury and yet set on the bench for many games for Maguire anyway.

Mount was dropped to the bench to Scott McTominay even while being fit.

Casemiro has been terrible whenever he played this season yet you're telling his absence is now a crisis.

Eriksen has been terrible whenever he started a game this year and only performed well as a bench option.

Shaw returned and played games and we were still crap anyway.

Meanwhile our attacking lineup has been mostly intact with no injuries throughout the season : Antony, Rashford, Bruno, Garnacho, Martial. Yet we only scored 24 goals in 21 games.

Yeah, it's an overblown excuse, and I'll say it again, the long time out has made Martinez the most overrated player at Man United. He's a good player but he's not Maldini for his absence to be that grave, for God's sake.

Varane was only benched pretty much for our Oct PL games and then I think one game after. How many PL games did he actually miss? Worth noting when he was dropped we won 4 out of 5 and Ten Hag won manager of the month. The only game I can say I really missed him was Bournemouth but maybe I am mis remembering.

Licha, Casemiro, Eriksen and Shaw are all notable misses with extended injuries to be fair. I think that does affect the team badly.

Saying Eriksen is bad every time is a bit silly. Well, it's very silly. Shaw has played what, 8 PL games?

 

[el3mel]

Varane was only benched pretty much for our Oct PL games and then I think one game after. How many PL games did he actually miss? Worth noting when he was dropped we won 4 out of 5 and Ten Hag won manager of the month. The only game I can say I really missed him was Bournemouth but maybe I am mis remembering.

Licha, Casemiro, Eriksen and Shaw are all notable misses with extended injuries to be fair. I think that does affect the team badly.

Saying Eriksen is bad every time is a bit silly. Well, it's very silly. Shaw has played what, 8 PL games?

Maguire was playing instead of him and he was pretty much our best defender during this period, probably even our best player this season in general, so saying we missed Varane is over the top.

Not when Casemiro and Eriksen have been pretty bad whenever they played as starters for us this season. Casemiro was getting slaughtered here prior to his injury but suddenly people are making his absence as a huge miss. It's my issue with the whole thing.

Shaw played 8 games with us this season including 6 games in a row and our record with him in such period is 3W1D4L, 10 points out of possible 24. Hardly the effect people are claiming here.

Do injuries affect form ? Sure, they can cause a period of poor form. No one is denying that.

Do injuries cause a catastrophic and ridiculous collapse like what we have been experiencing these 6 months ? Hell no, unless you're forced to play with U21 or something.

We lost 9 games out of our first 21 league games, scoring only 24 goals in 21 games and with a negative 5 goal difference, won only one out of our 6 games in our CL group, and people are telling me this catastrophic form is thanks to us losing Eriksen, Casemiro and Martinez, and you guys believe yourselves ?

 

[VP89]

Maguire was playing instead of him and he was pretty much our best defender during this period, probably even our best player this season in general, so saying we missed Varane is over the top.

Its not really as simple as that. Center back partnerships are down to chemistry, continuity and of course consistence. The problem Ten Hag had is sometimes Lindelof is fit, then he's not. Sometimes Varane is fit then he's not. And Licha thought he was fit, but really he wasn't.

The problem with this is that no chemistry can be built and as a result no continuity. I believe that's why ten hag just stuck with Maguire even Varane when fit, because there was a situation where Varane couldn't be trusted to maintain fitness. Lindelof needed surgery and Martinez of course needed recovery.

Ultimately that causes a headache for any manager and I don't deem this a Ten Hag issue. It most certainly affects preparation.

Shaw played 8 games with us this season including 6 games in a row and our record with him in such period is 3W1D4L, 10 points out of possible 24. Hardly the effect people are claiming here.

Against whom? Also worth noting that bringing back a single player won't be enough. But a collective of Shaw, Licha, Casemiro, Eriksen all being available is a much bigger deal, which we frankly haven't seen.

Do injuries affect form ? Sure, they can cause a period of poor form. No one is denying that.

Do injuries cause a catastrophic and ridiculous collapse like what we have been experiencing these 6 months ? Hell no, unless you're forced to play with U21 or something.

We lost 9 games out of our first 21 league games, scoring only 24 goals in 21 games and with a negative 5 goal difference, won only one out of our 6 games in our CL group, and people are telling me this catastrophic form is thanks to us losing Eriksen, Casemiro and Martinez, and you guys believe yourselves ?

And that's where I agree ten hag takes blame. He should beat Palace, Bournemouth and Forrest for example. He had enough quality to do so.

I am in full agreement that the points tally isn't good enough. But I'm also saying you are underplaying the impact our injuries have had.

I also think a manager should have room for making his own mistakes. At our club a manager can't though, because theres too many other issues.

 

[el3mel]

Its not really as simple as that. Center back partnerships are down to chemistry, continuity and of course consistence. The problem Ten Hag had is sometimes Lindelof is fit, then he's not. Sometimes Varane is fit then he's not. And Licha thought he was fit, but really he wasn't.

The problem with this is that no chemistry can be built and as a result no continuity. I believe that's why ten hag just stuck with Maguire even Varane when fit, because there was a situation where Varane couldn't be trusted to maintain fitness. Lindelof needed surgery and Martinez of course needed recovery.

Ultimately that causes a headache for any manager and I don't deem this a Ten Hag issue. It most certainly affects preparation.



Against whom? Also worth noting that bringing back a single player won't be enough. But a collective of Shaw, Licha, Casemiro, Eriksen all being available is a much bigger deal, which we frankly haven't seen.

And that's where I agree ten hag takes blame. He should beat Palace, Bournemouth and Forrest for example. He had enough quality to do so.

I am in full agreement that the points tally isn't good enough. But I'm also saying you are underplaying the impact our injuries have had.

I also think a manager should have room for making his own mistakes. At our club a manager can't though, because theres too many other issues.

We didn't struggle defensively this season is the point. Put in Martinez, Varane and Casemiro in the team and nothing would have changed because our problems haven't been leaking goals due to defenders fecking up (Maguire and Evans actually stepped up whenever they played this season, and I said, Maguire has been probably our best player this season).

Our issues have been putting the ball in the back of the net and controlling games, and our main attack lineup wasn't hit by injuries at all. Scoring only 24 goals in the league in 21 games is what brought us down, not defenders mistakes. You are scoring with a rate of about only a goal a game. You aren't going anywhere with this even with Maldini and Nesta at the back.

Even most of our defensive issues this season have been mostly thanks to Onana leaking goals and our defensive midfielders being terrible including Casemiro when he played this year, not thanks to center backs.

Injuries can affect the team but not to this degree is what I'm saying, not when most of your main issues have nothing to do with the missed players. What would have Martinez done to improve our inability to score enough goals?

It's fine for Ten Hag to make some tactical mistakes like starting or subbing the players.. Happen all the team, but the team's structure has been a mess for about a year now and he has shown that he's incapable of improving it.

 

[r0663664]

ETH is probably one of the worst manager after Alex retired. Maybe Moyes top the list for having too much confidence of the championship team, ETH has blown 400 million with weak transfers that created a team that can’t score and defend. United needs to start from scratch which means finding young potential players and mid twenties XI. No more transfers over late twenties unless it is a transformative player. That’s the only way to go.

 

[Desert Eagle]

So with Bruno, Casemiro, Mount, Mainoo and Eriksen properly match fit.....
1. Who starts against top 6?
2. Who starts against the rest?

I'd start mainoo and casemiro in every game if fit. The third midfielder can be plug and play. We need the physicality in midfield and those are the only two players who provide it. You forgot about mctom btw

 

[Juice Juiced]

Ole out performed him in the league and plauyed better football, and Mourinho won more trophies. Hardly our best.

I am not talking about trophies. Last time we resembled team with any plan it was under LVG.
If wasn't that WHU game where our players surendered like babies, we would be joy to watch.

Bayern was in downspiral before he took them and showed some balls to Toni.

And please don't compare Ole in LvG, you look silly. (And he won FA for us)

 

[ayushreddevil9]

What exactly do you expect to change that will make him perform better?

I have no reasoning. I just can't understand that a coach will be happy with how his team is playing. Maybe he will get things right under new people.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

I'd start mainoo and casemiro in every game if fit. The third midfielder can be plug and play. We need the physicality in midfield and those are the only two players who provide it. You forgot about mctom btw

Nothing players aren't worth considering

 

[Desert Eagle]

Nothing players aren't worth considering

He might be a terrible player but he still has more starts for us than the rest of that list except Bruno. Chances are that bum is going to start in a lot of our games going forward.

 

[MJay]

The fact that the quote heavily implies that was the main selling point of the move - come here so you and your agent can make a ton of money.

That was not the point the poster of the quote was trying to make. As I replied earlier, the quote was incomplete so it seems the poster thought Brobbey's agent is the same as EtH, and flagged that part up. Now that would certainly have question marks around it due to ten Hags links to the agency.

However, the rest of the quote continues from Brobbey and he mentions his agents name Jose Rodriguez, who is with Raiola's agency and not SEG.

 

[Amsterdam Devil]

So with Bruno, Casemiro, Mount, Mainoo and Eriksen properly match fit.....
1. Who starts against top 6?
2. Who starts against the rest?

I would play Casemiro, Mainoo and Mount. Yes Bruno is a much better player but Mount is a smarter player and works better in a structure/system.

But will never happen, Ten Hag will always play Bruno.

 

[captain666]

ETH stars in a new series of Dancing on thin ice!

 

[sglowrider]

TO me, The first thing Ten hag should do to minimize disaster class performance is to stop playing two Numbers 10's as two number 8's.
It is kind of an outdated style of football (esp in premier league.) I think Brazil used to play that in the old days.
Maybe it worked at ajax at that time. He needs to know he has to adapt quickly as a coach. I cant believe they don't realize that and need to be reminded by fans

Seems like all united managers when they were managing at united have been accused of being outdated in they style of play. Every one of them!! And we even thought we had the 'modern' manager in Eth!!

Maybe we need someone is is revolutionary and not a copy cat? Someone ahead of the curve rather than behind the cue ball.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

I am not talking about trophies. Last time we resembled team with any plan it was under LVG.
If wasn't that WHU game where our players surendered like babies, we would be joy to watch.

Bayern was in downspiral before he took them and showed some balls to Toni.

And please don't compare Ole in LvG, you look silly. (And he won FA for us)

I don't think there's a United manager that's viewed through more rose tinted glasses than LvG. Describing us as a joy to watch under him makes me wonder if you missed his whole tenure. His football was sending fans to sleep. By far the most boring football I've ever seen at United. Another season of that and I think I would've fell out of love with the sport for good.

 

[Crimson King]

It's not about what he's saying being "Bollocks" or not. It's about being an entertaining watch. Ten Hag is just a boring personality that rehashes the same boring quotes every game. It's no different than listening to a player saying "we have to do better next game" same old crap after every loss. It's boring and not fun. Just clichés getting repeated because they have nothing else to say. With someone charismatic as Pep Guardiola I can hear something new and fun.

I'll give you EtH can come across as boring, but I think that's mainly because he's under a lot of pressure at the moment. There were times last season where he showed himself to be a bit more fun and having a good sense of humour, but things were going well at the time.

It's easy to be a bit cheeky and humourous, like Pep and Klopp can be, when things are going well and you're confident in yourself and your team. We saw how snarky and sour Klopp can be last season when things weren't going well for Liverpool, and pool fans were genuinely starting to question him.

I imagine it would be the same for Pep if City were really struggling and his job was on the line. He'd probably become unbearable with his whining.

 

[United888]

ten Hag wants us to build a team based on:

• Defensively aggressive and proactive. There are some players in this team that I still see as softie and reactive.
• Capable to transition the ball from keeper to defense to midfield and to attack. So far only Onana, Martinez, Shaw, and Mainoo who are capable to do the transition and may be Dalot shown bit of improvement
• Playing high press constantly. Very often I see us only capable to do high press as a team for only 20 minutes then the rest of the 70 minutes we look like outgassed, almost like they are not fit.
• When the team win the ball from opposition’s defensive third, he wants his team to be direct. We did but we are just shit in our final third decision.
  

He needs players who are fit in term of fitness, aggressive and proactive when off the ball to win the ball back, and on the ball capable to play from the back.

I think we will see much more improvement in our build up play with Martinez and Shaw back and probably better defensively since Martinez is aggressive and proactive. I’m not sure what I should expect from Casemiro or Mount though, may be more energy and be more proactive in midfield than Eriksen and better on the ball and different style than when we use McTominay. I still don’t expect us to be capable to do high press as a team for longer than 20 minutes. I don’t believe we have players who are fit to do it.

 

[Rista]

We already knew he was ajax manager when we signed him. His cv was clear to everyone. I also wouldn’t be so harsh on him this season given the number of injuries we’ve had. I would just like to see him function in better circumstances. For 10 years, almost everyone who we’ve signed, players and managers, have underperformed.

We knew he was Ajax manager but the more time passes the more it's clear he's not what we thought we were getting. We've signed a lot of players and managers who have underperformed indeed. Is the club cursed or maybe we've appointed poorly?

Even if we're going with the injuries excuse he's still underperforming. If the only way we don't fully collapse is if we don't have injuries then that's bad management. Besides, other teams have injuries as well. We have more than average but not an unprecedented amount like people are trying to make it out to be.

 

[The Mitcher]

I am not talking about trophies. Last time we resembled team with any plan it was under LVG.
If wasn't that WHU game where our players surendered like babies, we would be joy to watch.

Bayern was in downspiral before he took them and showed some balls to Toni.

And please don't compare Ole in LvG, you look silly. (And he won FA for us)

Blaming an entirely different squad for LVG's inability to beat weak teams, ok...

 

[The Mitcher]

I don't think there's a United manager that's viewed through more rose tinted glasses than LvG. Describing us as a joy to watch under him makes me wonder if you missed his whole tenure. His football was sending fans to sleep. By far the most boring football I've ever seen at United. Another season of that and I think I would've fell out of love with the sport for good.

People were fed up of him at OT near the end. I was a steward at the time and heard the frustration regularly. In fact, when rumours started to emerge that Mourinho was linked with us a month or two before he was sacked, fans started chanting Mourinho's name AT OLD TRAFFORD.

 

[Rojofiam]

I am not talking about trophies. Last time we resembled team with any plan it was under LVG.
If wasn't that WHU game where our players surendered like babies, we would be joy to watch.

Bayern was in downspiral before he took them and showed some balls to Toni.

And please don't compare Ole in LvG, you look silly. (And he won FA for us)

This is as far from the truth as it can possibly be

LVG was probably even worse than Moyes if you factor in the money he was allowed to spend and the time he was given.

Every single one of his signings bar Blind is a failure since Shaw and Herrera weren't indentified by him. He vetoed Kroos. He chose Rojo over Rüdiger and Alderweireld. Wanted totally unrealistic signings like Ramos, Hummels, Müller, etc.

The football was the absolute worst under LVG, only Rangnick compares IMO. Ole was by far the best in this regard.

But...we won the FA Cup by beating Sheffield, Derby, Shrewsbury, West Ham, Everton and then Palace...on several occasions we had to be bailed out by last minute goals as well during our run.

It's such a fecking insult to Ole that you even compare their United tenures, let alone claiming LVG was the best one post-SAF

 

[Big Ben Foster]

That was not the point the poster of the quote was trying to make. As I replied earlier, the quote was incomplete so it seems the poster thought Brobbey's agent is the same as EtH, and flagged that part up. Now that would certainly have question marks around it due to ten Hags links to the agency.

However, the rest of the quote continues from Brobbey and he mentions his agents name Jose Rodriguez, who is with Raiola's agency and not SEG.

I'm the poster of the quote. Yes, it was a mixup on my part (didn't realize Brobbey was associated with Team Raiola). Still don't like the idea of using "come here and your agent will make a ton of money" as a selling point.

 

[united for life]

We knew he was Ajax manager but the more time passes the more it's clear he's not what we thought we were getting. We've signed a lot of players and managers who have underperformed indeed. Is the club cursed or maybe we've appointed poorly?

Even if we're going with the injuries excuse he's still underperforming. If the only way we don't fully collapse is if we don't have injuries then that's bad management. Besides, other teams have injuries as well. We have more than average but not an unprecedented amount like people are trying to make it out to be.

I think cursed. Nothing is right at this club.

 

[Scorpy]

Now that Ancelotti has signed a new deal, I'd love us to replace Ten Hag with Xabi Alonso in the summer.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

We knew he was Ajax manager but the more time passes the more it's clear he's not what we thought we were getting. We've signed a lot of players and managers who have underperformed indeed. Is the club cursed or maybe we've appointed poorly?

Even if we're going with the injuries excuse he's still underperforming. If the only way we don't fully collapse is if we don't have injuries then that's bad management. Besides, other teams have injuries as well. We have more than average but not an unprecedented amount like people are trying to make it out to be.

People will widely accept the decision makers at the club have made poor decision after poor decision. This manager as with his previous is another example of this.

Him doing poorly as manager should have been mitigated without the need to spend £400mil + & handicapping the club even further though.

The only hope now is Ineos go on some Liverpool-esque signing spree & luck out on most deals cause this squad isn’t a tweak away. 3 in, 3 out in the Summer will do nothing.

 

[wolvored]

It's overblown excuse really.

The only notable absence has been Martinez and he has become way, way overrated thanks to his long term absence.

Varane returned from injury and yet set on the bench for many games for Maguire anyway.

Mount was dropped to the bench to Scott McTominay even while being fit.

Casemiro has been terrible whenever he played this season yet you're telling his absence is now a crisis.

Eriksen has been terrible whenever he started a game this year and only performed well as a bench option.

Shaw returned and played games and we were still crap anyway.

Meanwhile our attacking lineup has been mostly intact with no injuries throughout the season : Antony, Rashford, Bruno, Garnacho, Martial. Yet we only scored 24 goals in 21 games.

Yeah, it's an overblown excuse, and I'll say it again, the long time out has made Martinez the most overrated player at Man United. He's a good player but he's not Maldini for his absence to be that grave, for God's sake.

I dont think there can be too many arguments with what you have there. This season whoever has played has been night and day different to last season and we got bollocked a few times then. This season has been the same shit virtually every game, regardless of personnel and when players have returned there has been no improvement, with some worse.

 

[Werd.]

Now that Ancelotti has signed a new deal, I'd love us to replace Ten Hag with Xabi Alonso in the summer.

God, I hope this happens.