Ok I’m wrong but I didn’t know another manger that had £400 mill in his first two seasons to spend
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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How many other managers have spend 400m in two summer windows?
It's funny because in the summer people were saying Pep needed that level of backing to win the league, and ETH needed the same to match what he did. He got the same backing but has instead took us backwards.
Posters ignore when I type up detailed explanations. Then they pick out one point I’ve said and act as though it makes up my entire stance. So I end up showing people the same respect. I’m sick of some of you , I don’t know if it’s intelligence , ignorance, delusion or blind rage but there’s no objective reasoning with some of the posters in here.
In the last 11 years how well have United spent over a billion? How well have city spent in the same timeframe? How you spend your money is prob more important then how much you spend. Managers don’t negotiate transfers or contracts. Whoever we sign we over pay.
I'm sorry but why are you struggling with the bolded bit? Sacking managers will change little =/= we should have stuck with any given manager. Sacking or sticking with any given manager is ultimately not going to change our fortunes cuz majority of people see the club and its neglect under the Glazers (leading to lack of proper structure) as the fundamental problem. I personally think the only manager who could have succeeded under the Glazers is Klopp (other than SAF).
So, some of us are hoping INEOS establish a proper structure to help a manager (any manager) as the first step in improving our fortunes.
Currently sat in 9th in the league after 20 games played.
Negative GD
Knocked out of a piss easy CL group.
Shite football on display every week.
£450m spent on players the manager thought were good enough for United (but apparently a DOF will know better than Ten Hag which players suit his own tactic)
Amateur tactics
Predictable subs
Delusional post match comments, the kind of loser mentality Moyes used to get ripped apart for
... and still there are maniacs bending over backwards to defend Ten Hag. Because y'know, Martinez coming back from injury will solve it all
Negative GD
Knocked out of a piss easy CL group.
Shite football on display every week.
£450m spent on players the manager thought were good enough for United (but apparently a DOF will know better than Ten Hag which players suit his own tactic)
Amateur tactics
Predictable subs
Delusional post match comments, the kind of loser mentality Moyes used to get ripped apart for
... and still there are maniacs bending over backwards to defend Ten Hag. Because y'know, Martinez coming back from injury will solve it all
Totally agree, especially about Klopp.
Pep only works at sure thing projects where he gets everything he wants. Pep has had success because the teams he managed were exceptional. All teams he managed won stuff before and after he left. Hell Bayern won two champions leagues but not with Pep.Pep is a silver spoon manager, nobody ever had the resources to build a team that he’s had.
Klopp is a better manager , proven in multiple different environments. His career is closer to Fergusons, going to clubs with different resources and making them punch above their weight.
Yes but Ineos will get someone in to choose the players we buy so be patient
Or
Highest win% by any manager post SAF
Won a trophy in 4 years.
Finished third
Had to go through Sancho, Ronaldo, Antony, Mason and ownership issues.
Injuries -
Same starting 11 Only in 2 matches
Played 19 different combinations in defence due to injuries.
Missed 9 players against Liverpool where we deserved to win.
Only 5 senior players hasn't been injured this season - Bruno, Garnacho, Dalot,Mjebri and Pellestri. 2 of them are back ups and one is a kid.
Last season our base was Varane - Licha - Casemiro and they have been out for more than 200 days combined.
So yes, he deserves to see out the season. Thank God it's not the keyboard warriors running the club and we have competent people coming in.
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City is one thing, but they are not the only ones above us.
United finished third last season.
You don't realise how good we're going to be now with him back.
Thanks , God knows how did I get that wrong
Yeah but we came first in the league cup so it averages out to second.
Chelsea?
Chelsea spent a billion in the same period.
Poch practically got the same budget in one season as ETH got in two and nobody’s calling Poch out of his depth or sh*te. He doesn’t have to worry about Weghorst or Reguillon level emergency signings. And he’s not doing any better than us. That only suggests that spending money doesn’t necessarily equate to success, particularly if it’s not being spent well.
Every other club spends better so they don’t need to spend as much as united. Not just that, the pressure and scrutiny on EVERY player at United is a different level to those above us.
When United are struggling it’s just relentless pressure On the players and the managers. So we have players that we overpaid for and are probably not as good as we need, but the expectations are on them and the manager. You don’t get that at Brighton or Newcastle or spurs or even Liverpool.
But this whole “400 million spent” thing is just one aspect of the clubs issues. If it was just that then we should just discuss it. But then there’s the stupid contracts, the contract extensions to players nobody wants and the poor sales record that affects our FFP (so Weghorst and Ighalo).
Then there’s the ego superstars you don’t get at ANY of the clubs ahead of us. None of them have a Lingard, a pogba , a Ronaldo or a Sancho. They don’t sign Sanchez or do Maria players who are just looking to leave their clubs.
The same things keep happening to United. When the same things happen over and over again, you can’t keep blaming individual managers because we are changing managers and still end up with disjoined unbalanced squads with unhappy superstars, players who think they are better then they are and players who won’t leave because of the stupid money we pay them
Excellent post and the bolded is easily discernable when watching the teams performances. It's very refreshing to see posts that clinically review the teams displays. What's happening this season is nothing short of a capitulation. I've stated time and time again that the biggest issue isn't the results it's the performances. A good manager at a club with United's resources doesn't have a team drop as low as it has under Erik Ten Hag that's without question. People use Klopp previous season as an example yet they finished 5th and lost the same amount of games as United at present throughout the entire season (as opposed to half way through).
I don't see Erik turning it around. I can't even think of many players in Europe who can come into this new system and have confidence they will raise the teams level. That's a glaring sign of a very insufficient tactical outfit.
People knew Poch is shite, even before he went to Chelsea!
You must know that you are not the only one that realises that the structure above the manager has been shit for a decade. It's not news.
Ten Hag can still be a worse manager than what we need despite of that.
That Joel Glazer or Murtough are horrible doesn't prevent Ten Hag from setting the right tactics, selecting the right players and running a good training.
They can all the shit.
We would all love to find a new Fergie, but this is modern football and the manager is 'just' the manager, he can be replaced just as we replace a player.
I’d be more worried we find the new Ferguson and they fail simply because of the club’s dysfunction. Ferguson didn’t just become manager and everything fell into place, it took a fair bit of time for him to steer the ship and it wasn’t always an upward trajectory. But let’s not go down that route of discussion.
I don’t want United to need a Fergie because that’s a once in a generation manager and you will be a longtime going through managers looking for one. Theres a good chance we miss out on good managers who don’t like the look of United. I mean there’s a decent chance Pep saw the circus (was it the term “Disneyland” that Woodward used ?) setup and United and would never of taken the position. You said it yourself that people know united is a mess, well potential managers know that aswell. ETH even alluded to it that some people thought he was mad taking the job. United is a basket case club in the eyes of many no matter how much money we throw at our sh*tness.
Just like a lot of players are probably avoiding us, we get the ones who want a payday, not necessarily the ambitious ones. If United is run better then a good manager can do really well. I don’t think all our managers are as bad as their record with us showed, anymore then pretty much every player we buy is as bad as they play for us.
And It’s not that I think I’m the only the one who sees the club issues. It’s that people act as though it’s not really relevant “cause manager manages players” and they want to keep throwing managerial bodies at it. 10 years on and we are no closer to seeing progress. We’ve had 4 managers and a couple of interim in that time and some people go on like we keep managers for years.
And it’s not that ETH is infallible either, it’s that a lot of sh*t has happened , even more drama/issues then any of our previous managers have had, that may really explain alot of the poor form.
When you say ETH doesn’t pick the right players or tactics , I’m wondering how often it’s said when we have no decent subs to bring on or alternatives to start with. Or how often he’s had to shift things around due to injuries. People will say other clubs have issues but they play a certain style. What sort of pressure is there at these clubs? What happens when they play poor? This matters. Because if there’s more pressure on you to do well , then setbacks can be harder to navigate relative to clubs and with less pressure.
I’m not certain ETH can succeed but I’m equally not certain anybody could have done much better given all the things that have happened and been going on. Maybe we would have seen better football but that doesn’t guarantee results. The players usually down tools for our managers so it’s unusual that they don’t necessarily seem to think ETH is an abject failure.
As far as INEOS goes, it’s a different future and hopefully a better one. Regardless of what happens, ETH had an awful bout of misfortune. Even though I don’t know what’s so special about Potter (no more experience then ETH or Moyes ) , I will accept and support what INEOS do, not because we have a new manager but because of the promise of a new way of the club being run. If we are run well, Potter should do ok, but I don’t see why ETH might equally do better when the cast of police academy are replaced. Last season wasn’t a disaster under ETH, so why can’t he do better with a better setup?
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Have you even read the Chelsea thread recently? People have been poking fun at him all season, especially in regards to one caf user who is a massive fanboy of him. And yet, despite his shiteness, he may potentially overtake us if we lose our next game. Whose fault is that?
However low I rate EtH, have to admit that he still setup the team attractive enough for me, waiting for the next game. I don't know why...
It's a different feeling with other ex-managers, when reaching the end of their tenure.
It's a different feeling with other ex-managers, when reaching the end of their tenure.
I don't know what the standard is here, but I think there is too much hindsight involved.
Arsenal signed Partey from a better team (Atletico Madrid) with the promise of a massive wage increase, and he's missed a million games due to injury. They also signed 31-year-old Jorginho from Chelsea last season, and Havertz this summer. Spurs signed Kulusevski and Bentancur, two players Juventus didn't really want. Both Spurs and Villa had Clement Lenglet on loan the last two seasons. These signings can be criticized on the same merits as many of the signings from United's "poor structure." But those clubs have managers that are getting performances from the team. You seem to reject that in favor of acting as if those clubs never make the same type of signings.
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Win all the games till the end of the season. No excuses now. Out of Europe and league cup. FA cup won't add much.
Nobody is saying that now because everyone has been saying that for a long time now
It's nothing new. Poch has been out of his depth at this level for a while."If you want to perform, you need hungry players," he said.
Now I am confused. What is the Dutch view on this subject? Do you need hungry players or horny players?
Now I am confused. What is the Dutch view on this subject? Do you need hungry players or horny players?
Well Rashford is the reason why players aren't hungry
Does he cook?
This thread gives up the names of looney manager cultists and well wishers of the club so easily.
You made a number of good points.
Firstly, high number of ball recoveries high up the pitch tells more about the style of play rather than us being good at pressing. This is because if you see how many times our press gets beaten, you really see what we are - a 'heads or tails' team, playing against the odds.
Secondly, as you mentioned when you get past the high press it's highway to our goal. I saw it first time against Lens in pre season. It was very clear it's mostly the tactics / setup at fault, not the players. Then, to my surprise, we saw EXACTLY the same setup against Wolves. This was back in the days when we played full strength team and looked completely lost. The only difference now is we don't have full strength team.
Thirdly, you said "maybe we commit too many players forward". I actually think this is shocking tactic of throwing bodies forward. I remember games in which all attackers, McTominay, fullbacks AND Casemiro found themselves in or around the box in random positions. Again, 'heads or tails' team.
Last point on ball progression, I think there's the Onana paradox here - it's actually more difficult to play out from the back this season because teams often compress their pressing to midfield area, but don't stretch as much as in De Gea days. So even if De Gea was shit on the ball, teams pressing high meant we had more ways to progress the ball, even going long. Nowadays, opposition will stand off and let our defenders have the ball and press the fullbacks. They know it's effective because our back 5 is so detached from front 5 there's no easy way to progress the ball. This is key to Casemiro poor performances imo, I have seen him receiving the ball deep and going long (high risk/reward). A lot of people criticised him for this, but there was literally no other option. There was no single player close to him (front 5 detached from back 5), and all defenders were already marked because of pressing compressed to midfield area. There was no way out.
The system ETH has been trying to implement relies heavily on key players playing their best football. Small drop from Martinez, Casemiro, Rashford means we will collapse - because it relies on individuality so much.
We are 'heads or tails' team.
I also think players have lost belief in whatever Ten Hag is trying to achieve with this team setup and they are playing worse than would be expected.
Van Gaal needed horny players to play sexy football (not that it ever happened for us).
Ten Hag needs hungry players to have a team that works as a team at all it seems.
It implies manager is not the issue and has not been all these years. So if we had stuck with Moyes, or LVG, or Ole or Jose, nothing would be different, right? We crumbled down literally the moment the greatest manager of all time left us and STILL somehow have people questioning if a manager makes a difference. It's quite unbelievable, really.
Then it's a shit system and Ten Hag is clueless. The goal of any team should be to play to a greater level than the sum of its parts, not to mention tactics should be flexible to be able to nullify the opposition where necessary.
The best teams grind out wins when players aren't at their best.
If all we have is one inflexible system that relies on a fully fit team playing at their best, otherwise we collapse, then it's beyond flawed
"Nobody could have done a better job".
It doesn’t imply the manager is not the issue. It implies that it’s hard to know how much of the the issue is the manager when you have so many dysfunction problems around him, none of which seem to change. One manager is an outlier, 4 managers and 11 years of relative failure is a trend.
United appears to be the only top super club to be suffering from this manager curse. Mad that other top clubs can hire half decent managers and the worst that happens is maybe they don’t win a league or CL. But at United , our issue is simply managers.
If you are going to take a strong stance on something , at least try and understand what you are arguing against.
The trouble with the World is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent people are full of doubt.
It's funny still seeing so many of you trot out this line.
If INEOS etasblish a proper structure, it'll be to help the club 1st and foremost. Not the manager. INEOS don't work for the manager. The manager has to fit into what INEOS want. Not the other way around. If the manager fails, they replace him much easier and get in someone who fits into their ideals.
You guys keep treating the manager as this deity who needs to be protected and someone who's above the club.
Exactly. It was pretty bad in the first few games of the season, but the fact we're still trying to pull this off is just shocking.
Bayern have sacked more managers than we have in the same time period. 4 managers in 11 years is not a "trend" in any shape or form. It's the average. We've had 2nd and 3rd place finishes and cup wins, it's not like we've been a mid table side... until now.
Your condescending tone is getting pretty tiring. You're not as smart as you think you are.
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