Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Iker Quesadillas]

It's fine to suggest that Ten Hag may not have a great eye for a player suitable for the top end of the PL, but that's not (or at least shouldn't be) his job, and so it's a rather redundant criticism.

But it is his job. It has been his job. That's the role he wanted and that's the role he got.

I think here it is useful to make a distinction between high-level and low-level talent identification.

High-level talent identification is the ability to assess player's capabilities from "limited" data (some games, stats, scouting reports, etc.), and adapt that knowledge to many circumstances. This is a specialized job, and yes, it is not typically the responsibility of a manager. It is more the job of a scout.

Low-level talent identification is something simpler: it is assessing the capability of the players that you manage. This is one of the responsibilities of the manager.

Ten Hag is getting criticized for the bad signings because a few of the more notorious ones are his former players. That is a mark against his 'low-level' talent identification, which is part of his job.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Mount was struggling to get a start even before getting hurt, and that attack + Bruno has been fit all year. The preferred back 4 hasn't been available sure but if that was our only issue then it would be excusable.

That’s my thoughts too, people bleat on about injuries but even when that poster puts our first eleven down we’re only missing Martinez and Casemiro from it

 

[Amira]

He also started the sentence with this:

"I don't want to be the sole ruler, I stand for cooperation..."

You should have finished the quote. Or you didn’t like the last bit?

"I don't want to be the sole ruler, I stand for cooperation, but control in transfers is a condition for me."

 

[NLunited]

I think we should cut ourselves a little slack, Arsenal and Newcastle are dropping lots of points lately too.

We can have a rethink/reset in January, maybe get a few signings in.

 

[The Mitcher]

You should have finished the quote. Or you didn’t like the last bit?

"I don't want to be the sole ruler, I stand for cooperation, but control in transfers is a condition for me."

You know it's a cult like following when they start lying by omission.

 

[davidmichael]

Sack him and get a manager in who can implement a 4-3-3 system. I’m sick of this fecking 4-2-3-1. It didn’t work under Ole and doesn’t work under Ten Hag. We are just not seeing any style of play and players seem to be all over the place with very few overlaps or movement.

Problem is ETH has fecked himself by making Fernandes captain thus making him a permanent pick and that Fernandes is the epitome of a 10 in a 4-2-3-1, he doesn’t have the positional sense or the tactical awareness to play as a central midfielder in a 2 or in a 3 so we’re stuck with 4-2-3-1 or the even worse 4-1-4-1.

 

[sammyhol]

Problem is ETH has fecked himself by making Fernandes captain thus making him a permanent pick and that Fernandes is the epitome of a 10 in a 4-2-3-1, he doesn’t have the positional sense or the tactical awareness to play as a central midfielder in a 2 or in a 3 so we’re stuck with 4-2-3-1 or the even worse 4-1-4-1.

We haven’t played 4231 all season… what are you on about?…

We played 4231 all last season and got to 2 cup finals and qualified for the CL…

It is exactly what we should be playing!

 

[davidmichael]

We haven’t played 4231 all season… what are you on about?…

We played 4231 all last season and got to 2 cup finals and qualified for the CL…

It is exactly what we should be playing!

If you look you’ll see I was replying to someone in regards to us playing 4-3-3 and said about 4-2-3-1 and this seasons even worse 4-1-4-1, never said we’d played 4-2-3-1 this season and simply that because of Fernandes we’re not able to play 4-3-3.

With what we have we should be playing 4-2-3-1 and we should be playing as a counter attacking team instead of a 4-1-4-1 and feck all idea of how to play but personally I’d rather bring someone in who can play 4-3-3.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

That’s my thoughts too, people bleat on about injuries but even when that poster puts our first eleven down we’re only missing Martinez and Casemiro from it

Correct, and the biggest issue of our team (midfield/attacking) has been largely fit barring Casemiro (who everyone was ready to ship off to Saudi while he was actually fit). I can totally understand a bad run of results if this was a Spurs situation where we are stuck playing nothing but fullbacks and just getting battered even though our football is good. But we aren't, we literally score goals at a relegation level rate and are quite often terrible to watch. It's our biggest issue in that we don't have a defined attacking identity and very little cutting edge, and it's 2 years running now on this. Even last year we scored very few goals for how well our table position was, but at least then you could excuse it with the lack of fit forwards and need to be pragmatic at the time. But not now.

 

[Stig]

We have wingers who don't get the ball or themselves into the box. That's coaching.

We have no energy or speed going forward. That's cosching.

We have an overlapping fullback who doesn't get the ball in the box and if he did at best there would be one player in their trying to receive it. That's coaching

The man is a disaster in all departments.

 

[DSG]

He also started the sentence with this:

"I don't want to be the sole ruler, I stand for cooperation..."

WTF… this has been reported through multiple sources. He has veto power on any transfer. He has to take responsibility for the poor transfer record.

 

[Stig]

That’s my thoughts too, people bleat on about injuries but even when that poster puts our first eleven down we’re only missing Martinez and Casemiro from it

When I watch MOTD sometimes it feels like City have changed half the team from when I last saw them play, and then make as may changes the next week.

 

[DSG]

1. I've not said that no one should take responsibility. The Glazers are primarily responsible, then Woodward/Arnold, then Murtough, the chief scout and chief recruitment analyst.
2. Loans and free transfers of old(er) players are clearly not going to "contribute to the team's progression" and it's ridiculous to expect this to be the case. No other side with anything remotely matching our ambitions finds themselves so regularly reliant on stop-gap signings like these.

It's fine to suggest that Ten Hag may not have a great eye for a player suitable for the top end of the PL, but that's not (or at least shouldn't be) his job, and so it's a rather redundant criticism.

So… if that is your logic, do the Glazers get full credit for the CL win in 08 and the league and cup wins from 2006-13? There has to be some nuance here… Glazers can be blamed for failing g to build an organization that properly supports the manager, but they’ve spent money, so it can’t all be on them.

The Glazers can be shite and Ten Hag can be shite too. They fecking confirmed Ten Hag’s appointment. Just laying blame at the feet of the Glazers doesn’t absolve Ten Hag of responsibility.

 

[DSG]

The saddest characteristic of our play is that he only commits 4 players to the high press. It’s incredibly soft. He’s afraid to gamble. And the build up play is abhorrent. Watching Garnacho chase like a maniac where McTominay sits and Eriksen sits is a joke. On the other hand, subbing Scotty in for Mainoo was a joke. In both goals McTominay was complicit. Sad.

And no violent reaction on the pitch. Resignation. He’s out of ideas. He’s basically a clown

 

[NLunited]

We have wingers who don't get the ball or themselves into the box. That's coaching.

We have no energy or speed going forward. That's cosching.

We have an overlapping fullback who doesn't get the ball in the box and if he did at best there would be one player in their trying to receive it. That's coaching

The man is a disaster in all departments.

You are wrong on all these points. We do all these things, the numbers show we are getting plenty touches in the box.

We have fast wingers and a fast striker. We have a striker getting in good positions.

Something is not working: it is a lack of composure, bad decision making, maybe low confidence, I’m not sure.

 

[oreon]

You are wrong on all these points. We do all these things, the numbers show we are getting plenty touches in the box.

We have fast wingers and a fast striker. We have a striker getting in good positions.

Something is not working: it is a lack of composure, bad decision making, maybe low confidence, I’m not sure.

No we do not. I checked stats. We are 3rd in touches in attacking 3rd. But when you look at touches in the penalty area, we are 9th. And in terms of expected goals which measures the quality of chances, we are 11th. So basically midtable. Which lines up with where we are in the table., we actually might be overperforming in the standings a bit.

So whatever attacking system/style of play ETH has, its not generating enough quality chances or touches in the box. The quality chances are just not there. And we don't need to look at the stats. Anyone who was watched United this season will tell you for most of the games we don't create enough. Most our chances come in the counter attack or off an opposition mistake

 

[DSG]

You are wrong on all these points. We do all these things, the numbers show we are getting plenty touches in the box.

We have fast wingers and a fast striker. We have a striker getting in good positions.

Something is not working: it is a lack of composure, bad decision making, maybe low confidence, I’m not sure.

I mean…. Coaching?

 

[ayushreddevil9]

I mean…. Coaching?

Everything else is to blame except for coaching mate.

 

[That_Bloke]

When did you invent that?

The only way to view the ignores posters posts is by deliberately hitting the "show ignored content" at the end of the page.

Face it, you didn't actually put me on any list and is just trying to save face at this point.

Again, you are so amusing.

No it's not.

Depending on the users settings and/or the fact that they put you on ignore first, you're forced to see their posts whether you like it or not. It is this forum's major flaw and one that really should be fixed.

 

[padzilla]

So… if that is your logic, do the Glazers get full credit for the CL win in 08 and the league and cup wins from 2006-13? There has to be some nuance here… Glazers can be blamed for failing g to build an organization that properly supports the manager, but they’ve spent money, so it can’t all be on them.

The Glazers can be shite and Ten Hag can be shite too. They fecking confirmed Ten Hag’s appointment. Just laying blame at the feet of the Glazers doesn’t absolve Ten Hag of responsibility.

The Glazers are utterly shite but it's looking more and more apparent that Ten Hag isn't the man to provide the solution to that.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I think we should cut ourselves a little slack, Arsenal and Newcastle are dropping lots of points lately too.

We can have a rethink/reset in January, maybe get a few signings in.

We've got a negative GD in our last 34 or so Premier League games.

This isn't a recent slump. We've been poor for a while now.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

No it's not.

Depending on the users settings and/or the fact that they put you on ignore first, you're forced to see their posts whether you like it or not. It is this forum's major flaw and one that really should be fixed.

The worst is when you want to ignore someone but they started a good thread that you want to keep following

 

[flappyjay]

We've got a negative GD in our last 34 or so Premier League games.

This isn't a recent slump. We've been poor for a while now.

It's been going on since the league Cup final.

 

[Juice Juiced]

Is he sacked?
I had bloody new year at hospital, I need some happy news

 

[united for life]

We aren't signing players for the sake of signing of players. We're signing players (on free transfers on loans) because we've had a decade of horrible mismanagement that has left us with gaps in the squad that need plugging, and no transfer budget or FFP wiggle-room to adequately plug them with proper signings.

It's not even about value to the team. Evans and Eriksen (even Sabitzer, Reguillon and the two back-up GKs last season) have their value in the squad. It's about how frequently we have to make these signings. No other side with Champions League ambitions gets remotely close to our reliance on free-transfers of 30+ year-olds and loans as short-term options to add squad depth.

As far as I'm concerned, any responsibility Ten Hag holds for these signings is nominal at best. As I said, the vast majority of it has to lie at the feet of the Glazers, then Woodward and Arnold, then the recruitment team.

to indicate that we have not spent lots of money is not right. If i am not mistaken, we are the club with the highest net spend in the league. We are just signing the wrong players and this obviously is not ETH’s mistake as we signed antony for 85 million when he was valued at 25 million. But disregarding his price, he is an average player identified by ETH and that is something be is to be blamed for.

 

[bond19821982]

The notion the manager shouldn't be evaluated unless he has his full team present is just invented to defend Ten Hag at this point. Injuries are part of the sport. That's why football clubs have squads of plus 25 players and not just 11 players. I swear people here are acting like they only started to follow football this season just to absolve the manager of the blame.

The other concept that these players will suddenly click once they all play together is nonsensical. Casemiro and Mount have been rubbish whenever they played this season (and Casemiro played a lot). Mount particularly was getting benched for Scott McTominay ever since the Brentford game. Shaw didn't improve the team's results one bit when he returned from the injury. All players have been massively under performing this season. What would Martinez returning do to the fact our main forward line scored only 22 goals this season?

Didn't answer my question at all. Knew you would dodge. My bad to think otherwise.

Thanks for your time.

 

[bond19821982]

Mount was struggling to get a start even before getting hurt, and that attack + Bruno has been fit all year. The preferred back 4 hasn't been available sure but if that was our only issue then it would be excusable.

That has been one of our major issue. We haven't been able to build from back at all and this full back getting inside isn't working without Shaw or Martinez stepping into midfield . Fact is, he has been trying to implement a new system but players just hasn't been available to try it out in matches.

He isn't getting sacked now, you like it or not. He would get time until we have the full team available and he has some time with them.

 

[Mindhunter]

Are we really claiming that ETH has had no say in transfers? On the contrary, we have acquired targets who have played for him in the past which tells me that he has been more active than the typical EPL manager who have really little say (except of course Klopp and Guardiola who have developed their credibility over a period of time) in transfers.

We have gone out of the way to support him and in most cases to our detriment. I think our larger issue is that we don't have anyone to hold ETH accountable. No body in the current regime has the footballing nous to evaluate him. He has had a free rein and did what pleased him. Which other manager would have bought Antony at this price?

And of course he has now descended into the usual "end of the line" kind of tactics. He only plays players who agree with him or who he likes (e.g., McTominay). These are clear signs that he has lost control of the process.

 

[chocolate cloud]

Has van de beek left yet? Also can we cancel Amrabat and Reguilon loan deals?

 

[AndySmith1990]

When a manager takes over all we hear is he needs to be fully backed, meaning he's given a large transfer budget and free reign to bring in players he wants. But when it goes tits up apparently the signings aren't his responsibility?

Well people are right about one thing, the footballing operations structure does need an overhaul. But not so we can fully back a manager at all costs. But instead it'd mean that managers who perform as badly as Ten Hag would be out on their arse a lot quicker, and suitable replacements will already be shortlisted

Hopefully once Ineos get all that shit sorted we can finally rid ourselves of the cult of the manager era. It's become fecking tiresome

 

[kaku06]

He also started the sentence with this:

"I don't want to be the sole ruler, I stand for cooperation..."

Why did you cut the quote in half and didn’t post the whole sentence where he says clearly that “he wants control over transfers”? Why did you omit it? This is disingenuous from you.

 

[pocco]

I think we should cut ourselves a little slack, Arsenal and Newcastle are dropping lots of points lately too.

We can have a rethink/reset in January, maybe get a few signings in.

Maybe see if there's a decent manager around, a rejuvenated United could still push for top 4. Doubt there'll be any meaningful players available for transfer in January. Ten Hag would probably plonk them on the bench anyway like he has with Mount and others.

 

[Jeffthered]

I still want him to be given a chance when the injured players return . But it's concerning though. We aren't creating chances, we aren't controlling games and we aren't defending well. Surely , one of it needs to be right by now ?

Please don't get sucked into this ETH nonsense. Good manager's build teams, squad's over time, to be able to deal and respond to when the inevitable injuries, loss-of-form, suspensions, international duties etc begin to affect the team. No manager can realistically expect to have a 'full and fit' squad available for selection, because such a situation is extremely, rare.

Pep builds a team/squad. Klopp builds a team/squad. Their respective teams have been missing some of the most impressive and important players in the Prem (Haaland, Roberston, Jota, KDB.. ). Emery has built a squad and has made many existing players, better. Ange lost arguably the best centre-forward in world football, and lost his midfield creator and key centre-half... and they all just get on with it.

Now compare to ETH.

Intell you, he is taking the club for a ride, taking what he can before he gets bounced. I cannot stand him.

 

[berbatrick]

You should have finished the quote. Or you didn’t like the last bit?

"I don't want to be the sole ruler, I stand for cooperation, but control in transfers is a condition for me."

 

[Marwood]

Please don't get sucked into this ETH nonsense. Good manager's build teams, squad's over time, to be able to deal and respond to when the inevitable injuries, loss-of-form, suspensions, international duties etc begin to affect the team. No manager can realistically expect to have a 'full and fit' squad available for selection, because such a situation is extremely, rare.

Pep builds a team/squad. Klopp builds a team/squad. Their respective teams have been missing some of the most impressive and important players in the Prem (Haaland, Roberston, Jota, KDB.. ). Emery has built a squad and has made many existing players, better. Ange lost arguably the best centre-forward in world football, and lost his midfield creator and key centre-half... and they all just get on with it.

Now compare to ETH.

Intell you, he is taking the club for a ride, taking what he can before he gets bounced. I cannot stand him.

No we saw Liverpool struggle massively when their CB's were injured. Why didn't they deal and respond to that?

City never have an injury crisis like we've had so it's a poor comparison but when Rodri's out (3 games out, 3 losses) how have they responded? How has Pep planned for that?

Doesn't matter how good a manager is, at a certain point injuries have an impact.

 

[GreatDane]

You should have finished the quote. Or you didn’t like the last bit?

"I don't want to be the sole ruler, I stand for cooperation, but control in transfers is a condition for me."

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Feels like he’s attempting to build a side with a similar style to Bayern 2012-13 but is failing miserably at it. Absolutely feels like he has no clue how to implement the high press, fast transition style, instead it leaves us looking shit at transitions, shite at defending and occasionally decent at pressing.

In short, he’s failing massively even if he does have a massive injury list as a valid excuse to an extent.
January will tell us everything about this man, but I’m struggling to see him here next season, I just don’t see a manager who actually knows how to implement his plan, a plan he’s never previously shown success with.
United shouldn’t be an experimental ground for a manager.

 

[Amira]

You know it's a cult like following when they start lying by omission.

Never seen anything like it.

 

[Idxomer]

You should have finished the quote. Or you didn’t like the last bit?

"I don't want to be the sole ruler, I stand for cooperation, but control in transfers is a condition for me."

Not seen this quote before. Don't see how Ratcliffe could keep him even if the results somehow improve. He's been a huge part of the current failed recruitment team and he has to go with Murtough who gave him this power.

 

[devilish]

You should have finished the quote. Or you didn’t like the last bit?

"I don't want to be the sole ruler, I stand for cooperation, but control in transfers is a condition for me."

In that case he should be hoping that saudi clubs take him as they are probably the only one ready to spend silly money on a championship level winger like antony

Meanwhile murtough should have never accepted those term as it basically made him redundant. Unless of course that was the great survivor's plan from the start (ie push his major responsibility on others so he won't be held accountable if it fails)