Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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It is naive to think there are no patterns in our attacking play etc. There are, the execution is poor.

Garnacho and Antony are young, their decision making is often poor, but at least they give everything.

Centrally we have Hojlund, who also shows good attitude. I think he would do great in a settled experienced team that can feed him better balls. He should be backup to an experienced striker, a good one not fecking Martial.

Rashford looks like he is not trying, feck Sancho.
Rashford is the biggest disappointment so far. His body language always has been deceiving, but it is clear someone needs to light a fire under his arse.

I think that explains why we ain‘t scoring much, mostly.
 
It is naive to think there are no patterns in our attacking play etc. There are, the execution is poor.
I like to read the posts from people who say this, or hear about it from the pundits on skysports just to keep a mental note of how lazy their interpretation of the sport is.
 
I agree that's no sustained structure in attack, part of that problem I think comes from an inability to keep the ball in the opposition half, and I think that comes back to the structure, support and off the ball movement.

Players just seem to go where they want and it all seems off the cuff and no real understanding between the players regarding movement and passing. They lose it and there's no real effort to win it back quickly.

To drag teams around you have to be patient, something that's severely lacking with Bruno, Rashford and Garnacho. Antony/Rashford on the wings is very one dimensional and somewhat easy to defend against, you force them inside and crowd them out. More emphasis needs to be put on support and recycling the ball, changing angles, sides, creating overloads. Too often the wingers seem to try and run from 40 yards towards the goal. If you could keep the ball higher up the pitch, they are more effective at getting in between players around the box. But that requires the full backs to offer the width and the ones we have don't seem to do that. Inverted fullbacks doesn't work with these guys who are inverted wingers. Everything ends up too central and congested and breaks down too easily.
I don't agree (not with you, but with the fanbase in general) that you can't play more "patient" football with those players. It might not be ideal for Bruno and Rashford (particularly him) but it's still beneficial in the long run.

We used to play more patient buildup last season, when we had Casemiro/Eriksen/Fred in midfield, only now ETH is insisting on this 415 setup that forces us to play ultra vertical football.
Casemiro is the best example of this. He is not super press resistant but his passing is quite good and can usually find a teammate. This season however he's been only sending hollywood balls only, the main reason for this is THERE'S NOBODY NEAR HIM IN MIDFIELD so he has to go for high risk/reward pass. Ten Hag has brought this on himself. And it also hapenned back when Martinez was playing so it's not like he's the one that makes us play this shite football now.

A team of Shaw, Dalot, Mainoo, Casemiro, Mount/Bruno, Antony is very capable of playing possession based football (to some degree). Fullbacks are actually very capable of overlapping so we'll have to disagree on that. Rashford and Hojlund seem to be from a different universe BUT we can still make it work. But that requires a different approach/system and some proper coaching.
 
I don't agree (not with you, but with the fanbase in general) that you can't play more "patient" football with those players. It might not be ideal for Bruno and Rashford (particularly him) but it's still beneficial in the long run.

We used to play more patient buildup last season, when we had Casemiro/Eriksen/Fred in midfield, only now ETH is insisting on this 415 setup that forces us to play ultra vertical football.
Casemiro is the best example of this. He is not super press resistant but his passing is quite good and can usually find a teammate. This season however he's been only sending hollywood balls only, the main reason for this is THERE'S NOBODY NEAR HIM IN MIDFIELD so he has to go for high risk/reward pass. Ten Hag has brought this on himself. And it also hapenned back when Martinez was playing so it's not like he's the one that makes us play this shite football now.

A team of Shaw, Dalot, Mainoo, Casemiro, Mount/Bruno, Antony is very capable of playing possession based football (to some degree). Fullbacks are actually very capable of overlapping so we'll have to disagree on that. Rashford and Hojlund seem to be from a different universe BUT we can still make it work. But that requires a different approach/system and some proper coaching.

They are but they don't do it often enough. That's my problem with them and these wingers, they need to stay outside, having them playing inverted roles narrows the whole pitch, especially when the wingers are also aiming to to come inside.
 
It is naive to think there are no patterns in our attacking play etc. There are, the execution is poor.

Garnacho and Antony are young, their decision making is often poor, but at least they give everything.

Centrally we have Hojlund, who also shows good attitude. I think he would do great in a settled experienced team that can feed him better balls. He should be backup to an experienced striker, a good one not fecking Martial.

Rashford looks like he is not trying, feck Sancho.
Rashford is the biggest disappointment so far. His body language always has been deceiving, but it is clear someone needs to light a fire under his arse.

I think that explains why we ain‘t scoring much, mostly.
McTominay running in straight line in space that Hojlund leaves when dragging defenders - I give you that. Other than that it all feels kind of random to me.
Rashford and Garnacho as wingers basically run until they no longer have space and then they think what to do with the ball. That is very different compared to what wingers for top teams do. Bruno is Bruno. Antony is following a very repititive pattern of not being a threat. The rest of the team is defending with occasional Dalot/Shaw overlap. That in few sentences is how we play football.

They are but they don't do it often enough. That's my problem with them and these wingers, they need to stay outside, having them playing inverted roles narrows the whole pitch, especially when the wingers are also aiming to to come inside.
But that's not a personnel issue then, right? It's coaching and how the team is set up to play.

I actually think with current form of wingers we should be focusing our attack to come through fullbacks overlapping or centrally through Bruno (who seems to be in good form now?). It would also benefit Garnacho and Antony. Rashford - I have no idea what to do with him really. Probably keep on the bench and rotate with Hojlund for last 20-30mins.
 
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Joint 3rd best defence in terms of goals conceded. Only 1 less than City.

Is that not a good thing?

21 goals conceded in 17 games is not particularly good. That averages out to 1.23 goals per game and would extrapolate to 47 goals by the end of the season.
 
McTominay running in straight line in space that Hojlund leaves when dragging defenders - I give you that. Other than that it all feels kind of random to me.
Rashford and Garnacho as wingers basically run until they no longer have space and then they think what to do with the ball. That is very different compared to what wingers for top teams do. Bruno is Bruno. Antony is following a very repititive pattern of not being a threat. The rest of the team is defending with occasional Dalot/Shaw overlap. That in few sentences is how we play football.


But that's not a personnel issue then, right? It's coaching and how the team is set up to play.

I actually think with current form of wingers we should be focusing our attack to come through fullbacks overlapping or centrally through Bruno (who seems to be in good form now?). It would also benefit Garnacho and Antony. Rashford - I have no idea what to do with him really. Probably keep on the bench and rotate with Hojlund for last 20-30mins.

Could be a combination or both. To be honest you see in games where Dalot doesn't recognise when to run and he's a bit hit and miss in that regard and Shaw can be a tad lazy and just doesn't make the runs.

21 goals conceded in 17 games is not particularly good. That averages out to 1.23 goals per game and would extrapolate to 47 goals by the end of the season.

Not saying it's particularly good, ideally you want to keep that average down to below 1, closer to .7. But when compared to the teams above and around Utd, it's not bad.
 
Could be a combination or both. To be honest you see in games where Dalot doesn't recognise when to run and he's a bit hit and miss in that regard and Shaw can be a tad lazy and just doesn't make the runs.
I think it's a bit tricky and risky for fullbacks to go very offensive and attack frequently in current setup, because we already have too many players high up the pitch. But that's the case - there is no such thing as defensive formation - if we play two actual midfielders (that might seem like a "defensive" setup to some people), the fullbacks can be more adventurous.
 
I think it's a bit tricky and risky for fullbacks to go very offensive and attack frequently in current setup, because we already have too many players high up the pitch. But that's the case - there is no such thing as defensive formation - if we play two actual midfielders (that might seem like a "defensive" setup to some people), the fullbacks can be more adventurous.

You can maybe drop 1 midifielder into a back 3, then push the opposite side fullback into midfield to make a 2, when the ball is forward on one side.That way you can still have them in an advanced position to get on the ball if you need to recycle go down that side.

Or just go 2242 in attack, with the two fullbacks pushing high and wide, one winger goes up to make a 2 and the other comes inside as an advanced 10. Depending in which side the attack is advancing on. I like the idea of that but I don't think it would ever work in the PL.

My thoughts are very basic, so I'm sure professional coaches being paid millions every year know about all of this. But anyway, just my thinking on what you could do to utilise the fullbacks better in attack and stop everything going central.
 
McTominay running in straight line in space that Hojlund leaves when dragging defenders - I give you that. Other than that it all feels kind of random to me.
Rashford and Garnacho as wingers basically run until they no longer have space and then they think what to do with the ball. That is very different compared to what wingers for top teams do. Bruno is Bruno. Antony is following a very repititive pattern of not being a threat. The rest of the team is defending with occasional Dalot/Shaw overlap. That in few sentences is how we play football.


But that's not a personnel issue then, right? It's coaching and how the team is set up to play.

I actually think with current form of wingers we should be focusing our attack to come through fullbacks overlapping or centrally through Bruno (who seems to be in good form now?). It would also benefit Garnacho and Antony. Rashford - I have no idea what to do with him really. Probably keep on the bench and rotate with Hojlund for last 20-30mins.
I agree our wingers should come around the outside more often, but certainly not all the time.

It is better to be mostly in the zone where goals are scored, especially when you transition.

Maybe we aren‘t good enough (yet) to create overloads on the wings all the time, and Ten Hag is trying to generate chances from pressing instead.
 
It is naive to think there are no patterns in our attacking play etc. There are, the execution is poor.

Garnacho and Antony are young, their decision making is often poor, but at least they give everything.

Centrally we have Hojlund, who also shows good attitude. I think he would do great in a settled experienced team that can feed him better balls. He should be backup to an experienced striker, a good one not fecking Martial.

Rashford looks like he is not trying, feck Sancho.
Rashford is the biggest disappointment so far. His body language always has been deceiving, but it is clear someone needs to light a fire under his arse.

I think that explains why we ain‘t scoring much, mostly.

You shouldn’t have to spend what our manager has spent if good honest players is what you are looking for. We still have a right winger no better there than Valencia it’s pretty insane and he got a fair amount of scrutiny let’s say.
 
It feels like Eth main struggle is definitely tactical. You assess Europe's other leagues and the managers who are having breakout season in Michel and Alonso the key to their success is the philosophy behind their teams and the instructions to execute the planning. I could fathom two poor seasons (looking forward) if there's clearly without reasonable doubt concise evidence that a system is showing signs of working well but it's near impossible to predict what Erik is hoping to do and what this team is working towards.

I said a few weeks ago there's no neutrality this season. The new system creates an influx of space (negatively) in the midfield making the team open, then on the other hand, when there's a more pragmatic approach there's not enough attacking output to win games. Pragmatism against better opposition guarantees chances because they will roll the dice more, but against teams that sit, it's the same issue that three managers have consecutively failed to find a solution for.

Our main problem is midfield. Nothing big. We will go round and round in circle but we will only develop when we get good midfielders.

Even the Anfield game, if Bruno was fit he would have played, and we would have lost that game. Even first half, we were very very scared of playing because we wouldn't believe in the setup. Afterwards in second half, it was the best we have played away from Home under ETH.

We might have player quality issues but our main issue is our we set-up and midfield structure. Nothing else.
 
Our main problem is midfield. Nothing big. We will go round and round in circle but we will only develop when we get good midfielders.

Even the Anfield game, if Bruno was fit he would have played, and we would have lost that game. Even first half, we were very very scared of playing because we wouldn't believe in the setup. Afterwards in second half, it was the best we have played away from Home under ETH.

We might have player quality issues but our main issue is our we set-up and midfield structure. Nothing else.
Agree with you. Good that we dont have too many games in January. Give us time to get Casemiro and Kobie playing together with either Mount or Bruno or maybe bothe with Bruno playing wide right
I think
Onana
Dalot Varane Martinez Shaw
Casemiro Mainoo
Mount
Bruno Hojlund/Rashford Garnacho/Rashford

Would be as good as any in the PL
 
Girona seems to use similar build up tactics with 3-1-6. Any tactical savy person who can explain what are diff to us in that matter and why it’s not working for us, but works for them? Link to some article or movie is also fine.
 
A good win is one that controls large portions of the game and creates more than the opponent.

Anyway I think McT will play specifically against West Ham because of his physique. We will need height and some power against that team. JWP will try to knock it into a lot of tall and strong players in the West Ham box during the game.

Fair, I agree with that definition. Just don't think we've hardly seen it since McTominay came into this role. Most of our wins have been some form of chaos.
 
Girona seems to use similar build up tactics with 3-1-6. Any tactical savy person who can explain what are diff to us in that matter and why it’s not working for us, but works for them? Link to some article or movie is also fine.

Comparisons with Girona setup are fair, at the start of the season they struggled with the build up play due to the distances between the players and their positioning. Wingers and two advanced midfielders were too high, similar to ours, leaving a big gap and single pivot isolated at large space.

With time, they adapted to be better positioned and to make rotation between players to offer options on the ball - something that we still lack with the most obvious example of Dalot who is unsure when to invert and join single pivot and when to stay wide and maintain width. Having a left footed technical player like Blind also helps a case as it was with our build up when Martinez is available.

With all respects to Girona, they are fun to watch, but also they are currently slightly overachieving, especially considering their xG which is most certainly not the case with our attack. They still conceded too many chances, as was the case against Barcelona, with their xGA seeing them at the bottom half of the league.
 
You shouldn’t have to spend what our manager has spent if good honest players is what you are looking for. We still have a right winger no better there than Valencia it’s pretty insane and he got a fair amount of scrutiny let’s say.
He definitely not living up to it, let‘s hope something clicks soon. The hard work seems to be there.
 
Girona seems to use similar build up tactics with 3-1-6. Any tactical savy person who can explain what are diff to us in that matter and why it’s not working for us, but works for them? Link to some article or movie is also fine.
They‘ve got Daley Blind, haha. But yes that would be interesting.
 
Would live him to bring Amass into the first team squad. Looks a really good prospect. Certainly better than Malacia
 
Girona seems to use similar build up tactics with 3-1-6. Any tactical savy person who can explain what are diff to us in that matter and why it’s not working for us, but works for them? Link to some article or movie is also fine.

@THE ZOL posted this a while back.

It's a very good breakdown of the differences.

If you want to see a thriving 3-1-6 system like the one Ten Hag is trying to implement, watch Girona. They have the same set up, albeit with vastly different results I will explain here.

The primary difference is that Girona’s gaffer Michel has coached a system based on controlling games through possession and Ten Hag’s one, in his words, is based on using transitions as the best form of attack. As a result, the outcomes are different.

Girona’s build-up
Girona and United both employ a system based on 3 players in the 10 position (two CMs and usually a left-back). The difference is that Girona have far better tactics for getting the ball to their 10s than we do.

Girona are less rigid positionally than us. Michel gives his players a lot more freedom to move according to where a “plus one” is needed in order to create an overload. As a result, they aren’t as wedded to the 3-1-6 as we are. For example, their inverted left-back, Miguel Gutierrez may drop in alongside their sole DM (Aleix Garcia) if necessary to aid with progressing the ball through the middle to form a 3-2-5 which creates better passing angles.

Alternatively, one of their CMs can drop in to form a pivot and to either give the back 3 more passing options, or to bring out one of the opposing midfielders from his position and thus open up a passing lane into players in the forward positions.

Another tactic they have according how many opposing forwards are pressing is to drop Garcia between the defenders to create a 4 vs 3 overload that would leave one of the wide defenders free and allow him to step into midfield and progress the ball.

Girona’s players are also very good at rotating positions and covering for each-other, which is a testament to how well drilled and organised they are. This is a crucial aspect of how they move the opponent around in order to create space, while still keeping the 3-1-6 / 3-2-5 shape depending on the state of the game and how many opposing forwards are pressing.

For example, if Aleix Garcia (DM) drops into the back line, Miguel Gutierrez (LB) might invert to become the DM and then Daley Blind (LCB) might push up into the left half-space that Gutierrez usually occupies. Girona are all about creating numerical superiority all over the pitch, which is why, if you watch their games, it is often like they are playing with a man more.

United’s build-up
By contrast, United are very rigid under Ten Hag’s positional structure, and we often seem outnumbered. There are so many times that our three 10s - two attacking midfielders (Bruno and McTominay/Mount) plus the left-back - are stood behind two of the opposition’s defensive lines and our defenders and DM cannot take the risk and pass the ball to them as the passing lanes are closed.

We then end up pumping it long or into the channel for a low percentage change of forcing a turnover closer to the opponent’s goal. Alternatively, we try to progress the ball from wide positions, but this isn’t easy as the touchline is ultimately the opponentbest defender and limits your options.

In fairness to Girona, they have Daley Blind who would be doing what Lisandro is doing for us now. As we have seen from Blind, he is an expert at zinging passes between the lines for forward players to recieve in dangerous central positions.

Why Girona are better than United at going direct
Girona do go direct from time to time, but there is a difference between how they do it and we do it. An example of this would be their third goal today away at Barcelona.

They went long from a 3-2-5 position that brought out more Barcelona players for the high-press. Barcelona basically had their front 3 on Girona’s back 3 and two furthest CMs on Girona’s pivot. This meant Barcelona’s pivot had to move forward to back up the press, which they felt safe to do so as it left Barcelona’s defenders 3 vs 3 with Girona’s forward line.

The goalkeeper punted it forward to the right where Girona’s CF (Stuani) and RW (Valery) were followed by Barcelona defenders. Savio stayed far on the left which created a big gap between Kounde (RCB) and Barcelona’s other defenders. From Stuani’s flick on, Valery simply ran in the space and scored after Kounde was slow to intercept because he was wary of leaving Savio free.

On the other hand, we often go long from a 3-1-6 where the opponent is wary of commiting too many players to pressing us high up the pitch because: a) they don’t need to as our ball progression is poor and b) our three 10s do not make movements to drag the opponents out of their shape.

Our three 10s often stay still due to our positional rigidity which plays into the opponent’s hands with regards to maintaining their shape. This ensures that it is both harder for us to win second balls, and even if we do win the second ball, we aren’t finding players in space against a disorganised shape that would enable us to, as intended, create chances from turnovers high up the pitch.

Girona: attacking with patience and possession

One of Girona’s main tactics for chance creation is to overload the right to bring the opponent across before switching it over to the left in space for their winger Savio to stand up the opposing full-back one on one. In these situations, Miguel Gutierrez is also incredible when making underlapping runs. If you get a chance to watch the highlights of the Barcelona game, you will see how many chances he got (he also scored) by creating overloads on that side.

The key difference between Girona and us is that they are a lot less vertical and direct, and by extension, more compact. Last season, they had more of a destroyer in the 6 position in the form of Oriol Romeu and, as a result, played more directly in the hope that he would mop up.

They in fact showed the same vulnerabilites to transitions that we did and conceded 55 goals, which was the fifth worst of 20 teams. As of now, they have conceded 20, which is not great but it is the 8th best defensive record. They also have the most goals this season. So, what has been the difference?

They lost Romeu and Aleix Garcia, who is not a great tackler or defender took his position as the #6 in the team. This forced Girona to be more patient with the ball and not force risky passes as they want to hide Garcia’s weaknesses in defending large spaces in isolation and speedy counter-attacks. Compare that to us having our #6, whether it is Cas, Eriksen, Mainoo, Amrabat or McTominay, being tasked with essentially mopping up a burst dam with a tissue.

Girona are especially very compact on their right-side. Players are usually in close proand they create triangles. Of course, one of the attacking benefits of this has already been stated: it brings the opposition across to create space out wide on the far side for Savio and Gutierrez. This also facilitates overloads on the right for better crossing opportunities and cutbacks.

Moreover, the compactness of players on the right means that if the ball is lost, they are in good positions to close the space quickly and efficiently to make it harder for the opponent to play through them.

United: direct attacks and vulnerability to transitions
By contrast, at United under Ten Hag, while we attempt to create overloads, the compactness is not there. If we lose the ball, we are easy to counter against. This risk is multiplied by the fact that we are not patient on the ball. We try to force the play with risky passes. We are too direct. Due to our poor and rigid shape in the build-up, we are seldom in positions to even sustain pressure or break down a parked bus because we go direct too early.

Then once our attack inevitably breaks down, we are played through either because a) our players are too far apart from each-other or b) our man-oriented press is moved around by the opponent to open up space in the middle for them to charge through.

TL/DR / Summary

  • Girona’s 3-1-6 is far better than ours because it occaisonally becomes a 3-2-5 with a pivot to make ball progression easier.
  • Girona play with more positional freedom but in a structured manner: players rotate positions while keeping the same shape.
  • This allows Girona to create numerical superiority all over the pitch while also dragging the opponents out of their shape in order to create space and overloads.
  • United’s position rigidity allows the opponent to defend easily with a settled defensive shape.
  • Girona’s compactness on the ball also makes them far more stable than us in terms of defending transitions, with their patience aiding their ability to control the game, create chances and sustain pressure through posession.
  • This has the double impact of both reducing defensive transitions and ensuring that they are best equipped to defend them.
  • United’s lack of compactness makes us vulnerable to defensive transitions.
 
Our main problem is midfield. Nothing big. We will go round and round in circle but we will only develop when we get good midfielders.

Even the Anfield game, if Bruno was fit he would have played, and we would have lost that game. Even first half, we were very very scared of playing because we wouldn't believe in the setup. Afterwards in second half, it was the best we have played away from Home under ETH.

We might have player quality issues but our main issue is our we set-up and midfield structure. Nothing else.
Right.. So the like of Bournemouth Copenhagen etc have better players than us in the midfield, do they? No. It's the tactics, the manager.
 
Girona seems to use similar build up tactics with 3-1-6. Any tactical savy person who can explain what are diff to us in that matter and why it’s not working for us, but works for them? Link to some article or movie is also fine.

Different competitions.
 
Right.. So the like of Bournemouth Copenhagen etc have better players than us in the midfield, do they? No. It's the tactics, the manager.
Problem is you didn't understand me probably.

our tactics is correct but the structure is not correct at all. Nothing embodiments structure more than midfield. ( Liverpool changed their midfield they have gone from Europa team to title challengers in 12 months, Man City lost their main midfielders they have gone from treble winners to fighting for top 4)

Midfield is what gives you the structure of the team.

You can have attacking tactics but in wrong structure, with right players (or even with wrong players).

That's why it's so hard to find the right balance and be successful.

For a team to be successful it needs correct tactics, correct structure and correct players. All the 3 needs to converge at the right point.

That's why even defensive teams(with defensive tactics) win trophies and be successful. It's because they have correct tactics, with the correct players they have to play in that tactic, then the managers knows the right structure to succeed... Read Athletico Madrid or Prime Mourinho teams.


Our main problem on the field is.

Our team structure is extremely wrong. This is easiest problem to solve.

Our tactics is extremely fine. Attacking with 5 players. Very positive. Very okay.

Having correct players is the hardest problem to solve, as it needs time, money, and it might not work out. That's why we will sign 1B+ players and not move an inch...

I believe with the right structure we should be a 75-80 points team. Correct structure was the second half Anfield performance.
 
ETH will ultimately lose his job as a consequence of the players he has recruited to the club.

The huge amount of money spent on players who are either not good enough or past there use by date cannot be defended.

The squad as a whole is very poor, and ETH has to be to blame for a huge part of that.

The odd result here or there is just papering over the cracks.

He will be gone by the end of this current season.
 
Its a miracle he still is at United, readin that Athletic article. I wouldv quit in a day with that Murtough mess. Then again, I dont have a 15 million severance package waiting. It does explain Ten Hags 23/24 season press conferences. He knows the axe will fall, its just a question when. Then he can kick back at the bahamas and go for a better run club.
 
ETH will ultimately lose his job as a consequence of the players he has recruited to the club.

The huge amount of money spent on players who are either not good enough or past there use by date cannot be defended.

The squad as a whole is very poor, and ETH has to be to blame for a huge part of that.

The odd result here or there is just papering over the cracks.

He will be gone by the end of this current season.
Murtough and/or Arnold should be losing their jobs over that, not Ten Hag. This never should have been Ten Hag's responsibility. If you look at @Berbaclass tweet just above, you see that Ten Hag took over a lot of this stuff because United was missing key roles that should have been in place and should have taken care of these responsibilities instead of Ten Hag (or Ten Hag's people).

I'm not contesting that Ten Hag isn't good at transfer stuff btw; that's clearly not his strength. But then which coach/manager is? It's not like Guardiola or Klopp run the transfer side of things at City and Liverpool, and neither should they. So in my eyes, the correct decision is to properly staff all relevant roles at United, take the associated responsibilities away from Ten Hag, and judge him on his performances as a coach - which is his actual role.

Of course, the conclusion can still be that he's a crap coach, and still needs to go. Or Ten Hag might insist on staying in power over transfers, in which case he should probably also leave, because United shouldn't want their coach to have that sort of power. But I don't think Ten Hag's poor transfer decisions should decide on his job.
 
Murtough and/or Arnold should be losing their jobs over that, not Ten Hag. This never should have been Ten Hag's responsibility. If you look at @Berbaclass tweet just above, you see that Ten Hag took over a lot of this stuff because United was missing key roles that should have been in place and should have taken care of these responsibilities instead of Ten Hag (or Ten Hag's people).

I'm not contesting that Ten Hag isn't good at transfer stuff btw; that's clearly not his strength. But then which coach/manager is? It's not like Guardiola or Klopp run the transfer side of things at City and Liverpool, and neither should they. So in my eyes, the correct decision is to properly staff all relevant roles at United, take the associated responsibilities away from Ten Hag, and judge him on his performances as a coach - which is his actual role.

Of course, the conclusion can still be that he's a crap coach, and still needs to go. Or Ten Hag might insist on staying in power over transfers, in which case he should probably also leave, because United shouldn't want their coach to have that sort of power. But I don't think Ten Hag's poor transfer decisions should decide on his job.
Keep up!
Arnold is going as part of the Ineos deal, and Murtough will not be far behind if Sir Jim has his way.
EtH has to be given at least two more summer windows, so that he can truly show us what he wants to do, we also have some good youngsters coming through, it has to be five year plan, or we will back here in 18 months time saying the same things about someone else.
 
Keep up!
Arnold is going as part of the Ineos deal, and Murtough will not be far behind if Sir Jim has his way.
EtH has to be given at least two more summer windows, so that he can truly show us what he wants to do, we also have some good youngsters coming through, it has to be five year plan, or we will back here in 18 months time saying the same things about someone else.
I know - I was just trying to say that I think Ten Hag making bad decisions in transfers is ultimately on the heads of the people that should have put a structure in place where the coach doesn't have that sort of power and responsibility.
 
Its now confirmed by Rene Meulensteen, former United assistant coach in The Guardian, that The Glazers pulled the plug on a Harry Kane move.


“We never felt any kind of influence on us on a daily basis,” Meulensteen says of his time working under the Glazers at United. “I doubt there’s any influence now because the Glazers are 4,000 miles away.

“The only thing you can question is the backing of the managers – and, yes, they’ve backed them with finances. But you saw Ole Gunnar Solskjær come out and say ‘I wanted X player, X player’ and none came. For example, signing Harry Kane this summer was guaranteeing 25 to 30 goals, but they didn’t do it because they thought he was too old."

As if getting Weghorst wasnt indication enough, Ten Hag is coaching with his hands tied behind his back and you can put that 400 million spending on his name, but those are buys that werent his first choice or, more apparent, not his choice at all. (As an aside, this also gives OGS a bit of shine back. He, too, was shafted by The Glazers.)

The sooner The Glazers are out, the better.

Many didnt believe me, but it was all true. Ten Hag, manager of Manchester United, making The Glazers buy Weghorst as his number one choice. Yeah right. Its an even bigger mess than anyone would dare to see. I wonder why SAF didnt raise a stink about all this earlier. We had messages from LvG and Jose, and nobody believed them, too.
 
I know - I was just trying to say that I think Ten Hag making bad decisions in transfers is ultimately on the heads of the people that should have put a structure in place where the coach doesn't have that sort of power and responsibility.
Apologies.
There are too many "fans" who think that EtH spends all his spare time going to matches scouting players, doing all the negotiations and signing the cheques.
 

Regardless how truthful the tweet is, the outcome and impact of the last two transfer windows have shown how incapable and incompetent Murtough is as DOF. In any well-run business, he should have been removed from the position.
Ole’s project was harshly and stupidly abandoned by those people. Now, ETH is in a similar situation. Getting them cleaned out is the only way to meaningfully start and/or continue any rebuild project.
 
So, let me get this straight. ETH wanted Kane, but we didn't even bother to make an inquiry since we couldn't afford his wages (due to FFP regulations, which also kind of explains why we went for Hojlund) because after having failed to secure FdJ's signature all summer long and with Ten Hag still desperate to bolster the midfield, the "committee" agreed to proceed with Casemiro. Whom they had initially rejected at the start of the transfer window with (valid) concerns about his age and the rather inevitable amortization of his transfer fee and his high wages. We would have liked Rice (lower wages, thus more room in the budget for a forward) but we knew that WHU didn't want to sell. Not only that, but we were more than happy to go into the season with Fred, McTominay and Eriksen as our midfield options (if the FdJ deal didn't materialize), Martial as the main striker and with no back-up for Sancho on the right wing. All this, despite the manager crying out for players in those positions. Why's that? Because, midway through the previous season, we realized we didn't like what RR was telling us, and we decided that the best course of action would be to waste 3–4 months until the new manager came in with his own proposals. Then, we got smashed in the opening two games of the new season and rushed to acquire the midfielder we had doubts about, to pay 86 million for a RW we had previously evaluated at 25 and to get Weghorst in January. Freaking Ricky Gervais couldn't come up with a sketch like that...
 
25m for Antony is fair tbh. I read rumors that Ole wanted Haaland when he played in Norway as well..

Yes but all in context, Ole was in charge when maguire was signed for 80m, wan bissaka for 50m, sancho for 73m. I think most managers will recognise quality and should have people above them that can do the same or at least make sense of the feedback they get from managers, scouts etc. We had Bellingham at carrington. No manager can be blamed for that deal not getting done. Van Gaal, Mourinho, Rangnick all complained about what was going on above them. Even Moyes was welcomed with a summer window of signing fellaini on deadline day and nothing else. Its been disaster after disaster.

All in all the common thread among the managers is terrible recruitment which for one reason or another shouldnt ever be placed solely at a managers door. This latest article shows how it can make life so difficult for a manager when there is incompetence above, and the notion about 'being given money to spend' doesnt hold weight, when the money is spent so wildly.
 
Erik’s clearly struggling right now and the scale of the job is starting to appear insurmountable. Nevertheless, I still maintain that he has been dealt a truly awful hand. His biggest mistake was taking the job.

I’ve come to the realisation it’s futile trying to judge a manager while the parasites remain at the helm. Was hoping that would change, preferably before the start of this season, but it’s now clear on-field success is a secondary concern as long as the money keeps rolling in.
 
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