or just employed him the role he actually does?
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
- Status
Since when has coaching players to improve as individuals and creating a team that becomes more than the sum of its parts been a “myth”. That seems more like the very essence of being a good Manager to me.
Klopp and Pep have coached countless players to become better versions of themselves and in doing so moulded teams in cohesive units that win major trophies. They bought players, yes. All Managers do.
Eddie Howe has Newcastle a point behind United with an even worse injury list. That’s with Joelinton and Longstaff both on 13 appearances and Almiron playing literally every game.
By all means, back your Manager. But let’s change the definition of Manager to do so.
Eh? Rashford and Dalot had their best seasons under his management. Rashford has nosedived again but that's not foreign to the club and has happened before ten hag. Point is he is able to raise their standards. McTominay has had his best season for the club thus far and it's under his management. Maguire is resurgent, under his tenure and he doesn't even want him in an ideal scenario! Garnacho has broken through under him.
Martinez before his injury was superb.
You and me both buddy. If the club's worst start in 40 years, and bottom of a group consisting of Copenhagen and Galatasaray isn't enough to convince folk that he's out of his depth, I don't know what is.
Pretty mental opinion really it was obvious his coaching methods were out of touch and his tactics were non-existent. We should have kept him on as DOF though.
Doing pretty well with Austria
It is exactly these naive, deluded ideas that are to a large extent to blame for where we are today. Ten Hag is changing the culture, really? We heard the exact same thing about every other manager except Moyes. Absolute nonsense based on nothing. None of the managers that we sacked went on to achieve anything of note, I wonder why. Imagine coming on a TV and going with the embarrassing "we've tried changing managers before" argument.
Int'l football a different ball game. We had the option of keeping him on in advisory role. The fact that ETH refused to even talk to him was to me a massive red flag. the best thinkers want to hear everything they can, whereas ETH just wanted to buy from Dutch league
Still getting results. His coaching methods can't be that out of touch.
Ten Hag didn't want to work with him because Rangnick didn't make himself available to do a handover of duties. Which I actually think is fair enough, given the consultant role Rangnick was supposed to have.
Oh, I didn't know about this. Are there more juicy details?
The goalkeeper is one of the 11 players on the pitch though. You can't hand-wave away his poor performances just because some of the other players may have played well.
Indeed, the fact the story was he didn't want to stay and was angling for a UCL club all summer revisionism
The fact the club didn't want to sell him that summer because they couldn't afford to replace him revisionism
The fact he was upset about having to take a 25% pay cut when he felt us missing out of UCL had nothing to do with him revisionism
The fact he wasn't fit to start the season due to missing pre season (he did have a valid reason) but he was still upset he was not starting games revisionism
The fact when he played he played and the manager even gave him the captaincy he didn't play well and was poor in front of goal revisionism
So basically the reality is the opposite of what the other poster was claiming.
Sell him to whom exactly? He was twerking entire summer for any CL club that would take him, but not even when he was on free anyone from CL wanted to do it. Where was his transfer blocked by anyone in the club and how did it force him to go on Piers Morgan?
He reportedly wanted the club to let him go for free, a few clubs were interested but not with a transfer fee plus his crazy wages and yes he was twerking all summer I agree.
He went on Piers Morgan so we would agree to terminate him quite clearly which is what ended up happening, e.g he got the free transfer he was always after.
Revisionism would be acting like he wanted to stay at United and work with ETH before the season started, he didn't which is why suggesting ETH is the reason he left is pretty silly, he always wanted out fullstop.
He makes some good points and yes, the administrative side of the club has been poor for some time, and that needs to change and it will. But I do not think the off-field matters are the reason we cannot play a decent game of football under ETH. The game against Chelsea (yes, this current Chelsea team) is seen as our high point. That cannot be acceptable.
I don't want ETH anymore, I just don't think he can really handle this job, and I question his quality as a coach. But, I say we leave him, as the next thing is for the takeover to progress and complete. Give new ownership time to set themselves up and audit the whole flippin' place including the playing staff. ETH can handle the reigns until then.
What you saying doesn't even make sense.
You: someone has come in and tried to instill some discipline and it's becoming open revolt.
Mctominay says that's not the case - states players are behind the managers and makes reference to instances with previous managers in which that was not the case. Previous reports corroborate this.
You: The fact McT has come out and said that proves how bad it has been
Mctominay actively disproved your assertion yet you think it's corroboration for it. It's not becoming open revolt. The club and the players are - by most reports - behind the manager. Managers fall out with players all the time, for different reasons, everywhere. Ten Hag has chosen to banish some, some opted to leave - the team is with the manager, as is the club - where is this "it's becoming open revolt" thing coming from? The hostility in your posts doesn't change this
Then why didn't any CL club approach him when it happened? Even with 25% pay cut, he was among the best paid players in Europe, way above what anyone bar few CL clubs could ever afford to pay. And if he was receptive to Saudi offer in the summer, his wages wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem.
Oh yea, that part I agree with. It's still a problem for ETH to deal with, but I really don't think that there was any possibility of anyone getting a good outcome out of him.
This is where I sit as well. He stays until Ineos decide what to do. If they decide to sack him straight away, I'm fine with that, equally if they want to see how things go until the end of the season, I'm okay with that too. I don't think it will happen but it's important we don't sack him and either be in a state of limbo with no replacement or we sack him and it's Murtough picking the replacement.
Because it happened once and then has continued to happen into this season with greater numbers...
to become (verb)
1. begin to be.
Just to clarify, you think that McT decided to come out and say 'guys, completely random timing, but we're all with ETH and it was shit before but now we're all united'?
United has no intention of letting him leave in the summer, because as widely reported they didn't want to replace him.
He forced his move in Jan out of United by doing the interview.
There not being any UCL clubs in for him is because he was clearly past it as we witnessed between the summer and Jan
Yeah I've definitely misremembered that and swapped them round.
Still don't think it's entirely unreasonable that he didn't want the former manager hanging around as a consultant, whatever that was going to entail, but odd that he wouldn't meet face to face.
It still feels a little like people want a rebuild without doing a rebuild. I agree after saturday that football wise there is major major concerns now, I think its as bad as weve looked in a decade, but you cant use some of the drama as a stick to beat ten hag with. Lets say hes right and there have been ego issues, dressing room issues, lack of effort issues - then somebody tell me how to rid a squad of these players without 'drama'. And also how to do it so quickly a new squad is good to go. For no other reason than absolute exhaustion with the same thing over and over and over, I'd stick with him.
What are we doing here?
A manager falling out with three players, at different times, and for different reasons, doesn't translate to "it's becoming open revolt" especially so when active players of the squad tell you that is not the case.That's cute, but Mctominay didn't come out and say "guys, completely random timing, but-". It is habitual that whenever a Manchester United manager has shortcomings and is underperforming - people will start with the players have downed tools/lost the lockeroom/squad revolt stuff - as such; he was asked during the pre-match press - "what's the share responsibility of the players to stop the endless cycle/revolving door of managers"? And he answered by saying that unlike with previous managers - the players are fully and firmly behind EtH
So I go back to the question I asked you before, when/where does this ever happen elsewhere in football? Unless you actually thought the players needed to grab some pitchforks and chase ETH from the dressing room for it to be deemed a revolt, I assume you are aware of context and how unprecedented it is for someone to fall out with so many players in a comparatively short amount of time. Our squad has been player powered for way too long and ETH is not a manager who is going to focus on everyone being happy to achieve things.What are we doing here?
That's cute, but Mctominay didn't come out and say "guys, completely random timing, but-". It is habitual that whenever a Manchester United manager has shortcomings and is underperforming - people will start with the players have downed tools/lost the lockeroom/squad revolt stuff - as such; he was asked during the pre-match press - "what's the share responsibility of the players to stop the endless cycle/revolving door of managers"? And he answered by saying that unlike with previous managers - the players are fully behind EtH
McT is a good egg, he's not a great player but he's always had a good attitude but I don't think he needed to offer up that info or the idea of it being toxic previously. It's a shitty journo question but he could have just given a stock answer, he didn't do that because there is so much noise going around in my opinion. Also, what else is he going to say sitting next to ETH? 'We have some bad eggs in the team we need to get rid of'.
Thanks!
I misremembered this, for what it's worth. Other way round with the frustrations about a meeting.
Still don't think it's too unreasonable that Ten Hag didn't want the former manager hanging around as a part-time "consultant" though.
Yeah, with the greatest of respect to them they both seem like two stubborn mules and it probably never would have worked.
It's so ridiculous and I never see anyone use that logic with players. We've tried signing strikers so why buy Hojlund when we should have just stuck with Hugill? Be patient though, give him at least 2 seasons and don't knee jerk saying he's not good enough until he's had time. Why are we supposed to play by different rules than the rest of the football world?
So essentially, All our players are shite, Eth cannot improve them, but if we do see an improvement in some of them, the manager gets the credit while if other players regress or don't improve , its on the players because they are shite.
@Daydreamer posted almost the exact response I wanted to say. What is the point of manager if they cannot improve the players.
Yes, our squad may not be the highest quality to be competing with City, but if you are saying that Eth needed a whole new squad of his own players to win against bottom half teams, then its ridiculous.
Even if I agree that the squad is "uncoachable", then how do you expect Eth to fix it, given that he cannot identify the kind of players he needs?.
Most not all, and yes this is a fact which is why we have been shit for many seasons
You are clutching at straws if you claim Dalot and Mctominay as improvements. Youth players have broken through under every manager and Garnacho is no exception.
He's improved them as players. Rashford had his best season in his career under Ten Hag. Bruno and Shaw were shadows of themselves in the season prior before Ten Hag came and also had strong season. His sense to change McTominays position and utilize him for his goalscoring shows he knows where to put his players to take advantage of their strengths.
This idea that hes a bad manager is just such a farce, knee jerk stupidity from footballing folk who want to look at 6months and but exclude most of everything else.
I don’t really know what people are seeing in ETH to have so much faith in him.
It's not what we see in ETH it's what we've seen in the players.
The faith is based on a decent run in the CL with Ajax 4 years ago (before blowing a 3 goal lead to an average Spurs side)
Also for fecking off Ronaldo plus some excellent interviews. There was also the video from preseason of him laying out training cones. Holistic manager.
Well said Phil. Also, feck the glazers. They are such clueless cnuts.
- Status