Well he caused most of the mess to be fair. The roof was still falling in last season, the training ground still needed repair, the Glazers were still around, but this season they'll all problems again.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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He caused most of the mess? What nonsense is that?
He has set us back years with his recruitment. So now we have worse players and the roof still needs fixing.
Which means he is not to be blamed for our performance, because our players are shit
His job isn't to solely do the recruitment. And I'd argue Martinez, Hojlund and Cas are better players than what we had. He also had to emergency loan a LB and loan Amrabat because of Uniteds shit FFP situation by virtue of forking out daft money for years before he came and failing to renew sponsorships.
Its astounding how posters just critique ten hags management or coaching because he isn't a good scout or DoF. Reality check - that remit shouldn't be his alone.
Ole apparently set us back years with his spell as manager, now Erik’s recruitment has done the same on top but hey, silver lining - if we keep going backwards it’ll soon be ‘93 and we can start winning again!
He isn't a good manager either so it's a full sweep really.
Don’t forget, he’s also shite because we have a lot of injuries. Should have signed more resilient players too.
Thats an epic pile of bullshit. Where is his point tally if we include his entire time in the PL? How far off is he from the managers that are 3/4/5 years in the process?
You literally called LVG a serial winner.
We know why they all failed at United. And regardless of the squad they inherited or how badly the club is run, they failed more because of their own shortcomings than any other reason.
They would all have failed at better run big clubs. Just as ETH would do.
How is it bullshit? Have you seen his management? Are we just going to totally ignore everything that's happened because we really hope he's the right man for the job? Forget everything and just ask yourself is the team organised, play a style of football he was specifically brought in for, or have improved under his coaching. That's his job and he's failed miserably at it.
Yes it's bullshit. Answer my question, where is he on the total point tally since he joined and explain how that's shit.
This can apply to every manager we've hired since Ferguson retired.
It's a symptom of our woeful structure and the clown show that we've had above the manager for the last decade.
Something you repeatedly ignore.
As much as Antony, for example, may well be an expensive flop that the next manager is lumbered with, I fail to see how that is a new problem considering Ten Hag inherited a side containing the likes of Wan-Bissaka, Maguire, Fred, van de Beek, Sancho and Martial, who all cost anywhere between £40-80 million, and are all, at best, average squad players, good for a short run at most.
I don't know where he is on total point tally, it's not relevant is it? We can't bring last seasons points into this season, just like Liverpool only got 3 points for beating us 7-0. I know he's lost something like 11 games already this season, that's more than Everton have lost.
Wait what? You want to exclude 2/3rds of his time here and then judge him as a manager?
feck me I'm not even going to begin to describe how flawed that is.
He's 4th in that table by the way, 2pts off Liverpool with the same number of wins (20). City and arsenal top 2, obviously.
So yeah, he's quite clearly not a "shit manager" but sure go nuts in exagerrating. Some of our fans just deserve this endless cycle really.
LVG and Mourinho ARE serial winners you plum. He is one of the games most decorated managers with 20 major titles to his name, including the Eredivisie, UEFA cup, Champions league, UEFA super cup, La Liga, Copa del Rey, Bundesliga, DFB Pokal, KNVB cup, FA Cup and a bronze medal at the World Cup.
So clearly they did succeed at better run clubs, and thanks for reiterating my point! Changing the manager at this club right now will achieve the square root of feck all - even if Erik is struggling!
And these things are only true until they're not any more. There's a lot of football to be played and we're barely playing anything resembling football.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm fully aware we need better players in key positions, which is why it made no sense for the manager to chase the targets he did last summer.
Right so basically, ten hag is currently among the best in terms of points since he joined, and the bad start this season means he has dipped (owing to really bad injuries and players failing to suit the system and yes, his own human error).
However the insinuation that he's a shit manager all of a sudden is such bullshit. His competence doesn't go out the window because of a bad half season. Any culture reset in our squad irrespective of manager will have extended periods of pain and the manager will take the brunt of it. But if we have fans that go "ah this is probably going to get really really bad even though it hasn't yet so il assume it has and say he's shit lol" then they deserve what they get.
I understand that some people want him out and some of their arguments are valid but surely he can’t be responsible for dumb decisions our players are constantly making on the pitch? Like shooting where there is a pass or the other way around? Can’t this be coached?
You repeatedly ignore that the manager shouldn't really be in charge of chasing anyone.
If a parent lets a kid use the credit card who is to blame?
Are we talking about culture reset again? At a lack of measurable success, the worshipping cult defaults to the 'culture reset'. We saw that with Ole for like 3 years. Yep, he is not winning matches, but at least he is doing a cultural reset and signing winners like Maguire and AWB.
You know that when people talk about the cultural reset is the last standing argument, and the ultimate confirmation that the manager is well, for a lack of a better word, utter shit.
You know that when people talk about the cultural reset is the last standing argument, and the ultimate confirmation that the manager is well, for a lack of a better word, utter shit.
The problem with this is that we don't know who his priority targets were and we only know what the outcome of the club's recruitment strategy was. This is the same thing with every manager previous by the way.
Whilst he has to take some blame, he can't take all of it. The summer gone was a disaster in my opinion but I'm not convinced the manager is actually the one to blame.
I think we're on cultural reset number 3 or 4
Paying 100m for Antony was a good idea according to ten Hag, last summer, how did that cope with the math?
A club that allows that transfer has a problem, irrespective of who the manager is. The manager should not be involved in the cost of the player and the club should independently be able to value a player
Ten Hag has to take some blame for Antony but here at United we like to absolve the club of its stupid behaviour by blaming managers for poor club decisions.
On odd days ETH needs to be out because the players he bought are shit.
On even days ETH needs to be out because he is unable to play good football, despite having good players, who will all play well once new manager comes.
On even days ETH needs to be out because he is unable to play good football, despite having good players, who will all play well once new manager comes.
While I agree it's unfair to put all the blame on his shoulders, on the other side of the coin, if Mount, Antony and Hojilund were roaring successes right now he'd be getting 99.9% of the praise. What makes it worse for ETH is that his most expensive signing is a player that he knew and coached previously. It's like Moyes buying Fellaini, he's undoubtedly his guy and is an embodiment of his current failures.
It is part of the cycle.
1. The manager is the best manager we had since Fergie, up there with Klopp and Pep.
2. Look at the signings he is making, an absolute genius.
3. I am glad we have this genius manager, but afraid that he will leave for Real and co.
4. Things are not going well, but it took Fergie 6 years to win the title. He needs several transfer windows.
5. Things are shit but no one would do better.
6. Things are terrible but there is no one else available.
7. Things are bottom, but at least he is doing a much needed cultural reset.
8. (Sacked) All hail the new God-manager, the players the previous idiot manager signed are not good enough and we should replace them.
Rinse and repeat.
football fans failing to comprehend what a rebuild is. shocker.
Agree with this. People tend to forget Ole, lvg and Mourinho all had one/two relatively acceptable seasons. It was the fact none of them kicked on that saw them leave. Literally none of them have done anything since leaving. The best is Mourinho who won the Conference league. A competition we are likely never going to be shit enough to play in. Ole hasn’t even managed to get another job. lvg was still playing nothing football with the Dutch national team and Mourinho is still playing nothing football with Roma. Is it not possible that rather the case of “every manager has failed so why apppint a new one”. Should it not be “why have we consistently hired managers not good enough ”.
Mourinho was worth a punt and I don’t blame us for getting him but LVG hadn’t been up to much in years before we got him. Ole never ever should have been given the job in the first place and Ten Hag came from a farmers league.
You mean the same Antony who was well known to our own scouts and green lit?
This isn't really something that is unique to ETH though - since SAF the only way we've consistently been able to score (and it's not like we've ever really had incredibly high scoring seasons) is by counter attacking. LVG did manage to change our style but the lack of goals got him sacked, since then we've splurged money like crazy without ever doing much outside of being good on the break and stacking the team with a mish mash of big names.
I personally would much rather we do what is happening now where there's at least the promise of players improving and building towards something - just think of the average age of our team and the signings he's brought in - and struggle then have the club bring in more Cavani, Ronaldo, Sanchez, Matic etc like signings and create the revolving door of overpaid senior players.
People moan on here about needing to reset, rebuild and make drastic changes but a coach comes in who actually wants to change things and everyone wants him out because it's not plain sailing.
Murtough on his infinite wisdom sacked the two head scouts the same window he hired ten Hag. ten Hag was completely in charge of transfers (and was one of the conditions for him to come).
The wilful ignorance from some when it comes to our transfers is maddening.
Is it partially on Ten Hag for not recognising that Antony performing well in Eredivisie may not translate to the Premier League?
Yes.
Is it also on the club for, firstly, seemingly being completely unable to suggest a far more suitable target for the budget available, and secondly, for authorising such a fee for a player who we shouldn't have been spending more than £40 million on?
Absolutely, and I think these are far bigger failings than simply liking a hard working player you've managed before.
Nobody expected a title challenge, but what is currently being served simply isn't good enough.
Even for a transition season. We are extremely lucky to even be where we are. Which is 6 points of top four and hoping for a miracle to qualify out of our group in the CL, what should of been a fairly straightforward group.
The squad at his disposal should in the top 4 and should of been able to qualify comfortably out of our CL group, but here we are staring down the barrel of abject failure giving a manager time and excuses that he hasn't really earned.
For the people wanting ETH sacked. Have they not learnt anything over the last few years? ETH is a decent manager, we finally have a modern manager. This club is toxic there’s certain people like Martial and Rashford that are bad for the dressing room and can get in the minds of other players. Every single manager we’ve had over the last few years have all had the same problem. ETH transformed Ajax and made them into a dominant team… and look where they are now he’s left? People might say it’s only the Dutch league but look where they are, if that isn’t evidence that there struggling without ETH and he also made them compete in the CL so it’s not just the Dutch league he did well in. This team and structure is not suited for any manager, does anyone think Guardiola will be successful with us right now? I don’t think so…. It’s about time we start looking at the bigger picture… we’re not good enough anymore like we use to. It’s gonna take a good few years for us to even start competing again… we have to face it, we’re a team that competes for top 4 and nothing more until the structure changes and players with bad attitude leave the dressing room.
Nope. Both aspects are criticized on their own right. Even if we leave alone the recruitment part, for his supposed coaching how many of our existing players did he improve or for that matter how many of his own signings have been playing at their best.
You cannot just say that his main job is coaching and management of the team and ignore that he is failing at that too.
Every manager has hits and misses(Although Antony is one giant expensive miss)it’s the Mount signing that is most concerning.
First signing of this season and it seems Ten Hag has no idea how to use him and barely plays him when fit. Makes no sense. Gives off the impressive there’s no overall plan or if there was a plan it’s now gone massively wayward.
First signing of this season and it seems Ten Hag has no idea how to use him and barely plays him when fit. Makes no sense. Gives off the impressive there’s no overall plan or if there was a plan it’s now gone massively wayward.
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