Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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At top level football they are at least in terms of attitude. Do you think they left Real to come to United for the trophies?

Does anyone? We don't win trophies, our only pull is money, nostalgia and fame. Still until this season Casemiro and Varane were both very good players who tried very hard to play well for the team.

Honestly, you don't achieve what they have without a strong winner mentality and desire to win. If they've checked out entireley it probably means they don't believe this team is capable of anything at all, and that they don't see a potential for future success here. Whether that is down to the manager, lack of quality in the squad, poor recruitment w/e, I don't know. I don't think either of them will want to play their last productive career years in a team that is doomed to failure.
 
At the most basic level, a manager should be able to organise a team so they aren’t easy to beat.

We just got walloped by a team who nearly got relegated a couple of seasons ago.

Never mind attacking football, for now. We look disorganised. We can’t defend. The players aren’t good enough but most championship teams are more organised than us.

He has to go, regardless of the quality (or lack of) the squad has.
 
It's a load of crap though isn't it? The system he used at Ajax isn't the system he's using here. The system he used last season isn't the one we're seeing here. He's only ever shown true success with one system, the one he used at Ajax. The "players that are wrong", then why the feck are we changing to a different system if it doesn't fit the players despite him saying he's chosen this system because it does fit the players. Revolutionary idea, but how about you decide a system and then stick with it and recruit players for that system. I know it's a crazy concept, but it might just work.
I believe that is what he is doing. 4141 high press: CBs / full backs to step into MF and help the no6, forwards and wingers with good engines and work ethic. GK able to step out with the ball. He is recruiting players for that system and is trying to stick to it. Some - yes, some - of the players he inherited are wrong and probably less able to adapt than he hoped. People on here want him to abandon this, I don’t.

I doubt he’ll be able to see it through.
 
I find the narrative that no manager would succeed here is absolutely bollocks. He's been given the power of rebuilding the squad and has absolutely fecked it up by spending fortunes on former players who simply are nowhere near good enough.

No other manager in world football is spending that sort of money on the likes of Antony that's simply on him.

Yeah, you can't get away from that fact. Half of us knew they weren't the right signings, so it's not like it was unavoidable. As soon as I heard he wanted Mount and what he wanted to do with our shape I (and others) predicted these issues. When you get obvious things right that the manager can't even foresee, it does make you wonder just how intelligent a tactician he is.
 
According to Ornstein, he is safe until INEOS comes in. I guess in the meantime everyone should just buckle up and take the beatings until INEOS delivers us from evil. So, basically between next week and the end of time.
 
According to Ornstein, he is safe until INEOS comes in. I guess in the meantime everyone should just buckle up and take the beatings until INEOS delivers us from evil. So, basically between next week and the end of time.
Let's pray he has an epiphany and realises it's his last chance to stop doing dumb shit, like leaving McTominay on the pitch for 90 minutes with Mainoo available or choosing Reguilon as a creative outlet over Shaw at LB. It's been a constant whack a mole with him.
 
I sympathise with him but it's hard to when he's making decisions like bringing Donny on. It's not all on Ten Hag. This is a culmination of terrible club management and recruitment over the last decade.
 
I sympathise with him but it's hard to when he's making decisions like bringing Donny on. It's not all on Ten Hag. This is a culmination of terrible club management and recruitment over the last decade.
He's played a large part in the recruitment problem.
 
I believe that is what he is doing. 4141 high press: CBs / full backs to step into MF and help the no6, forwards and wingers with good engines and work ethic. GK able to step out with the ball. He is recruiting players for that system and is trying to stick to it. Some - yes, some - of the players he inherited are wrong and probably less able to adapt than he hoped. People on here want him to abandon this, I don’t.

I doubt he’ll be able to see it through.

But the full backs don't, they neither step into midfield nor do they back up the press. And they you have Martial and Rashford who don't have a good engine or work ethic but he still plays the same high press with them.

I don't want him to abandon this but at the same time you can't persist with what's not working. Ultimately if it's not working wether it's due to personnel or coaching or whatever, he has to change to make it work. He has to adapt at least say when Martial/ Rashford are playing or not play them at all.
 
At top level football they are at least in terms of attitude. Do you think they left Real to come to United for the trophies?

Less than 12 months ago and people were praising their passion and drive and calling them real United quality - fans are far too fickle.

They left Real, the reasons are unknown so no point guessing. But both absolutely still have plenty left in the tank, not their fault that United is a shit show.
 
If there was any sort of football knowledge with any credible influence above him, he would be gone by now.

The tactics are baffling and the stats prove it, his transfers have been terrible, his man management is cold and his physical preparation is woeful too.

He has built a weak, slow, lazy, disjointed team. He just isn’t very good. Get in an interim already as we wait for Jimmy and his boys.

Keeping him is just actively hurting the club at this stage. His supporters just don’t want to admit they were wrong, rather than think about what’s best for the team.
 
According to Ornstein, he is safe until INEOS comes in. I guess in the meantime everyone should just buckle up and take the beatings until INEOS delivers us from evil. So, basically between next week and the end of time.

And that is what I have been saying.
And I doubt that he will go as soon as they come in because Jim Ratcliffe will know that it is pointless just sacking the manager when the rest of the football organisation is in a complete mess.

And new manager is going to want to bring in their own people and want to have a significant transfer budget. So it follows that the recruitment team are going to need to be sorted out and same for DoF.
 
Was going about my day normally and suddenly a “!” 0-3 to Bournemouth popped up in my head.

fecking hell, this fraud gave me ptsd
 
While not surprising it's crazy he is still here

If we lose heavily on Wednesday, I'm talking a pasting, I don't even trust the club to pull the trigger. It'll be Anfield once more and another historic pummeling on the cards. The club always waits until the worst possible nail in the coffin is hammered, instead of trying to prevent it.
 
We seen at Ajax that Ten Hag thrived under structure. He was so aligned with Van Der Sar and Overmars. He deserves the right to work at united under a structure. We’re still a mish mash of Mourinho, Solskjaer and Ten Hag, with Shaw and Martial from Van Gaal days. Let’s get the structure right with Ineos coming in, develop a football strategy - how are we going to play regardless of the manager? Bring the right personnel in. Give Erik a good 12 months and cut some of the rubbish we’ve got in the squad. What’s also clear is how much the match going fans are backing him, 10 minutes before the game yesterday, during the second half he’s being backed. It’s as if the majority of the fan base are in agreement - get rid of the crap out of the squad and back the manager
 
I've yet to see anyone actually argue that Ten Hag should get three years and hundreds of millions, but plenty that wanted him out two games into the season just pretended that's what was being argued when anyone expressed some sympathy for the situation and didn't call for his immediate firing. I agree, a proper structure stops those transfers and possibly even identifies a different manager entirely.

Tactics are an issue, as is game management, as is our blunt attack (although that can probably be included with tactics).

However, I'm not going to get too hung up on one freak result, or him falling out with a petulant idiot like Sancho who has barely ever performed for the club, and has a history of acting the cnut. Nor do I care too much about the rumours of a falling out with Varane, who is regularly injured, has been shite when he's played, and has apparently been eyeing up a move to Saudi since he was dropped.

The coaching thing is something I don't believe to be a fair criticism. People expect too much improvement from players who simply aren't good enough. Dalot and AWB, while still ineffective, have looked better for ETH than previous managers, Lindelof has arguably been steadier, and Ten Hag has managed to get Maguire and McTominay performing, despite their obvious shortcomings and obvious unsuitability to his system (however flawed that system may be).

People bring up Klopp and Liverpool, like they weren't still shite the season he joined, and not too hot until a few seasons after when they'd replaced half the squad and spent record fees on a goalkeeper and defender. People also like to bring up Newcastle, ignoring the massive amounts they've spent signing a whole starting line up of new senior players, and as if the "improved" players aren't the first ones used as excuses when Newcastle lose.

The ineffectiveness of the likes of Antony and now Hojlund are bigger concerns than average players that he inherited remaining average players, and that's more of a transfer issue than a coaching one, because you can at least see that they're doing what's asked of them (aside from scoring and creating goals).

He'd have probably had more success if we'd had a proper structure, although a club with a proper structure probably avoids hiring any of his predecessors, and of course, doesn't just sign the first player the manager names, for a daft fee, when looking at transfer targets.

There's probably not many that would be against firing him now, and even fewer if we lose to Liverpool next weekend.
Great post, totally agree
 
It easy difficult, Mainoo and Amrabat in midfield and Bruno upfront. Is that so difficult? McTominay can only do 2 things, score an couple of goals and help with corners. There is really nothing else he can do, he can't dribble, he is not creative, he don't have long range passing, he can't tackle, he doesn't have pace. Erik is so blind to sacrifice the overall team dynamic because we aren't scoring goals so McTominay name is first up for the last 2 months. Martial???? Martial should only be use in cup games, he should never be on the pitch in a United shirt. When has McTominay been our first name of XI from our past managers? Maybe Erik seen his play in the Dutch league as well and wanted to sign him. I am beginning to feel Erik is out of his depth, Dutch league is where he belongs.
 
Less than 12 months ago and people were praising their passion and drive and calling them real United quality - fans are far too fickle.

They left Real, the reasons are unknown so no point guessing. But both absolutely still have plenty left in the tank, not their fault that United is a shit show.

12 months ago the option to be paid 3 times as much while playing amateur football in a warm country wasn't there. I repeat, do you think that Casemiro or Varane left Real to win trophies? Do you think that Ronaldo left Juventus to come to United because of trophies? No. They came to United because their time at the very top was swiftly coming to an end and United had built a reputation of nursing players to retirement. Well, there's a better option for that in the ME.

And tbf I don't blame the players. They are reaching an age were injuries can seriously cripple them. Batistuta and Keane still carry the consequences of decades of wear and tear and will carry them till the end of their career. Who on earth wants to spend most of his life as a cripple when one can earn more while doing less? Its not as the likes of Ronaldo, Varane and Casemiro don't have the medals to show to their grand kids. We're not talking of Steve Gerrard here. The only one to blame is the club. Bringing a 30 year old in the most physical and demanding football league in the world and on silly money is stupid. These players own us nothing and are quite comfortable leaving United with nothing.
 
We seen at Ajax that Ten Hag thrived under structure. He was so aligned with Van Der Sar and Overmars. He deserves the right to work at united under a structure. We’re still a mish mash of Mourinho, Solskjaer and Ten Hag, with Shaw and Martial from Van Gaal days. Let’s get the structure right with Ineos coming in, develop a football strategy - how are we going to play regardless of the manager? Bring the right personnel in. Give Erik a good 12 months and cut some of the rubbish we’ve got in the squad. What’s also clear is how much the match going fans are backing him, 10 minutes before the game yesterday, during the second half he’s being backed. It’s as if the majority of the fan base are in agreement - get rid of the crap out of the squad and back the manager
Why? Why does he deserve that right? Why do so many of our fans continue to act like our club is beneath him and he's doing us a massive favor by being here?
 
Quite frankly I don't care if ETH stays or leaves. The only manager I can see as a serious upgrade is Ancelotti however I can see weaknesses in his game (ex he's a one system manager and his obsession with playing two no 10s is disturbing). Managers rarely survive takeovers anyway.

However one must ask many things

a- why our fitness levels are always shit?
b- what's the reason behind new signings being able to give us just 1 top level season only to turn up shit like all the rest?
c- why do we suffer with waves upon waves of injuries
d- why do our players tend to complain about training (Rangnick keeping them till its dark, ETH's training, Ole is a PE teacher etc)
e- why we leak so much information?
f- why are we the only club were the manager calls the shots about transfers? Even ETH had demanded complete control and that despite his relationship with the DOF is almost legendary at Ajax
g- why cant we sell players
h- why we insist on signing players on silly money and long contracts?
i -why every manager we bring ends up playing boring long ball football?
j- why a big chunk of our academy players have a shit attitude? (Lingard, Pogba, Greenwood, Ravel and jogging Rashy)
k- who kept tabs on Sancho for at least a year and a half? Is the guy in question still in a job? Cause any non banter club would have noticed that this guy has serious issues in terms of attitude.

That's not on ETH as these issues were there during Ole, Mourinho, Rangnick and LVG
 
We seen at Ajax that Ten Hag thrived under structure. He was so aligned with Van Der Sar and Overmars. He deserves the right to work at united under a structure. We’re still a mish mash of Mourinho, Solskjaer and Ten Hag, with Shaw and Martial from Van Gaal days. Let’s get the structure right with Ineos coming in, develop a football strategy - how are we going to play regardless of the manager? Bring the right personnel in. Give Erik a good 12 months and cut some of the rubbish we’ve got in the squad. What’s also clear is how much the match going fans are backing him, 10 minutes before the game yesterday, during the second half he’s being backed. It’s as if the majority of the fan base are in agreement - get rid of the crap out of the squad and back the manager
Almost like we've seen this fan delusion before. They backed every single manager until the end, even when it was clear as a day they were not good enough. Blind support will not do us any good. In fact, if we had this mythical "structure" Ten Hag would have long been gone already. And yet fans want a complete clear out but keep the manager. We're so weird with managers, man.
 
Why? Why does he deserve that right? Why do so many of our fans continue to act like our club is beneath him and he's doing us a massive favor by being here?

Because he won a trophy last year, took us to another final and finished in the top 4 all whilst being allowed to bring Wout Weghorst in on loan in January. If you get rid of the manager at the first time backs are against the wall we’d be sacking managers every 6 months
 
Apparently the football was worse under Ole, yet Luton have only scored 1 goal less than United this season. In fact you have to go down to 15th to find a team who has scored less.. and they’ve already rocked up at OT and won :lol:
 
Almost like we've seen this fan delusion before. They backed every single manager until the end, even when it was clear as a day they were not good enough. Blind support will not do us any good. In fact, if we had this mythical "structure" Ten Hag would have long been gone already. And yet fans want a complete clear out but keep the manager. We're so weird with managers, man.

Or maybe because this time the fans are sick to death of going through the same cycle whilst the same core group of players remain.
 
Or maybe because this time the fans are sick to death of going through the same cycle whilst the same core group of players remain.
Well, maybe they are not very bright then. Because every big and successful club has gone through these "cycles". We've sacked fewer managers than most clubs who have won more than we have in the last decade. If anything, being ruthless would be doing something different for a change.
 
The narrative that everything at the club needs to change, and he needs to be given another dozen players courtesy of a director of football and "proper structure", is quite ridiculous. He's had the luxury of being able to choose exactly which players he needs to fit his team, so why the feck would he do any better if someone else is forcing players on to him?
He has complete freedom in how he trains players, how he sets up his team, and he's been backed more than almost anything other manager. Yet we're left with a dysfunctional team that can't score, can't defend, has a missing midfield, often gets outplayed and humiliated, and is on the verge of getting knocked out of an easy CL group.
The poor football structure excuse only extends so far, and using it to absolve him of blame for all of that is taking the piss. You'd have to be utterly delusional to think that way
 
Has a current Premier League Manager of the Month ever been sacked before?

What a bizarre and sad situation.

I was so full of optimism in January/February this year.
 
The narrative that everything at the club needs to change, and he needs to be given another dozen players courtesy of a director of football and "proper structure", is quite ridiculous. He's had the luxury of being able to choose exactly which players he needs to fit his team, so why the feck would he do any better if someone else is forcing players on to him?
He has complete freedom in how he trains players, how he sets up his team, and he's been backed more than almost anything other manager. Yet we're left with a dysfunctional team that can't score, can't defend, has a missing midfield, often gets outplayed and humiliated, and is on the verge of getting knocked out of an easy CL group.
The poor football structure excuse only extends so far, and using it to absolve him of blame for all of that is taking the piss. You'd have to be utterly delusional to think that way
Also, going with that logic we'd persist with him because of his coaching, tactics and man management only. All things he has not shown to be very good at so far. The question is, why him then? Why gut the entire club structure but leave the underperforming manager?
 
It feels absolutely certain that we get knocked out the CL and demolished at Anfield, and I feel numb about it.
 
I sympathise with him but it's hard to when he's making decisions like bringing Donny on. It's not all on Ten Hag. This is a culmination of terrible club management and recruitment over the last decade.

On one side, it's true he is a victim of the nonexistent structure inside the club. But the other side of it is that no one put a gun to his head and forced him to spend 80 million on Antony, or 60 million on Casemiro, or 50 million on Mount. Many people even here doubted these transfers, especially Mount. Could have had four or more hungry young players for that amount who would work hard and lay the foundation. He chose this and is now reaping the rewards.
 
Has a current Premier League Manager of the Month ever been sacked before?

What a bizarre and sad situation.

I was so full of optimism in January/February this year.
There is nothing called current PL Manager of the Month. The award is meant for previous month. Things can change quickly of course with thick fixture when teams play more PL games during festive month. We only played 3 PL games in November, and here 9 days into December, we had played our third PL game.

Nothing bizarre or remotely surprising about it. Anyone know that the criteria for this award is flawed due to the fact it mostly based off small sample of result. Happened when we had mostly bottom half teams in the league where grind out result where as other teams having to play and take point off each others.

Outside of Chelsea game this month, the performance was not great, if not to say deceptively bad.
 
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