Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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flameinthesun said:
Shaw, AWB, Garnacho all say hi.
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That's grasping at straws to say Shaw and AWB have improved under Eth. At best they haven't regressed like other players, I can give you that.

Ok. Even if were to give you that shaw,AWB and Garnacho have improved, thats like 10% of the squad right?. Still that doesn't explain how he will improve/coach the new players who are signed for by a DOF.
 
abailey123 said:
We seen at Ajax that Ten Hag thrived under structure. He was so aligned with Van Der Sar and Overmars. He deserves the right to work at united under a structure. We’re still a mish mash of Mourinho, Solskjaer and Ten Hag, with Shaw and Martial from Van Gaal days. Let’s get the structure right with Ineos coming in, develop a football strategy - how are we going to play regardless of the manager? Bring the right personnel in. Give Erik a good 12 months and cut some of the rubbish we’ve got in the squad. What’s also clear is how much the match going fans are backing him, 10 minutes before the game yesterday, during the second half he’s being backed. It’s as if the majority of the fan base are in agreement - get rid of the crap out of the squad and back the manager
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Haven't been able to forget that Anfield beating so can't back someone who oversaw such an utter humiliation. Fair enough the matchgoers and you still believe in him that's totally your choice
 
Let's forget DOF, we need a coach who knows the our players strengths and weakness, opponents tactics and how best to exploit with our current players. Erik continues the same XI regardless of the opponents and hope everything ticks. Managers should be should to switch from a 4141 to 433 to 532 and give players instructions of what they want the players to down. Erik has never change formations except personnel during half time. He sits there openly seeing the tram being crave open again and again, whispering to his assistance. He has 0 idea what to do given 2-3 days of preparation. Alex prepares the team weeks and months ahead before we play Liverpool. He would tell players that they need to be ready for Liverpool. I bet Martial don't even know he is starting against Bournemouth. Just a poor manager that we hire who is out his depth at United. Only managers like Conte and Ancelotti can stabilised this team. We should never hired any upcoming manager as they are likely to struggle with this lot.

McTominay - super sub at best to nick a goal
Antony - sub at best. Let's get the best price
Dalot - backup, may improve
Martial - never want to see him in a United shirt
Rashford - too good to be sub, too inconsistent to be XI. Sell to highest bidder.
Lindeloft - sell at next window
Sancho - sell to highest bidder

Open heart surgery regardless who is the next manager.
 
Red4Ever said:
He’s been poor this season
The substitutions last Saturday way too late again.

the nostalgia for ole is bizarre
That autumn where shipped + 4 each to Watford Leicester Liverpool obviously forgotten
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I went to that Watford away game before Ole got the chop, that performance was worse than anything I've seen from United, even worse than performances from this season.
 
Rashford
Martial
Dalot
Lindelof
Mctominay
Shaw (to some extent)

The same players been here since Jose and still to this day in and around the first team not performing never will be good enough to perform at the top level.

ETH has some sort of style of play he is trying and we looked good in spells during Galatasaray, Chelsea & Bournemouth. It always seems to be individual errors costing us in games. Brunos pass, Shaws pass, Dalot not squaring it to Hojland at 0-1 when we was in control. Is that actually ETH fault? Some say yes, he coaches them and can drop them. Like Martial, why on earth is he still starting games after the performances he drops these days.

Martinez
Mount
Casemiro
Shaw ( only just back )
Varane ( frozen out )

If these 5 have been fully fit all season, I dont think we see Lindelof, Mctominay, Dalot near the the starting 11 so thats not been ideal but then again Mctominay has been our top scorer despite having shocking tactical flaws to his game, again is the ETH fault for coaching him?

I was pro ETH, and for the most I still am. I dont think Klopp/Pep/Zidane would get that core list of players performing well.

I do think if we dont qualify against Bayern then get spanked by Liverpool ETH will be sacked.
 
miliebrowndivorceattorney said:
I was reading about the Kane saga today and its interesting read how close he was to signing for United, untill the powers that be pulled the plug and decided funds are needed for Onana and Mount, so the original plan for 2 prolific strikers - one on Ronaldo wages at age 30, was canned.

I do believe Ten Hag was under the assumption the club sale would go through before the new 23/24 season and more funds would come so he could have his 2 strikers including Kane, Mount for a more pressing tactic, and a foot playing goakeeper wich was vital to start any new tactic.
Apparently the choice was given for either 2 strikers - Hoijland and Kane, or one striker and Onana and Mount. With Levy threatening this Kane transfer dragging out till the last minute the last drop.

The powers that be (Glazers, Murtough) decided any transfer dealing needs to be done quickly and so together with Ten Hag, decided to let the Kane dream go. They signed Hoijlund and a week later Kane went for Bayern, where he was even thinking about staying one more year at Spurs and sign a pre contract with United in january 24.

Was this all on Ten Hag? Can we blame him for making a choice for Hojland/Mount/Onana instead of Hojland/Kane and leave the rest? I think he counted on Rashford providing a lot more goals and perhaps fill that hole of a proven striker. He also wanted to build on a new philosophy, a new style of high press with backing of a football capable keeper. With De gea that wouldv been another lost year with maybe even worse results. He solved the Ronaldo problem and achived a 3rd place and fa cup with a very limited squad. And yet, we are p6 with a more negative goal difference than Everton. To me it seems even if Ten Hag has flaws, he still is delivering. Compared to say Poch and Chelsea, even Newcastle, hes not doing a bad job at all. I think the blame of not getting Kane, of putting Ten Hag for that choice, is on the Glazers.
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Really hope there is zero truth in him being close to signing for Utd. Surely not when you consider how adamant Levy was about not selling him to a League rival. Mind you £120m would have made them think but unfortunately it never materialised
 
OrcaFat said:
You’d have to ask him that! But if you want me to speculate, he is determined to implement his system and his rules now and he’s trying to get the players we have to adapt or perform as close to what’s required as possible. New players will be recruited but he wants them coming into a team that is playing (or trying to play) to his blueprint.

Probably he overestimated his players and underestimated the drawbacks but does not want to go back to sitting deep and counterattacking. Frankly, we weren’t very good when we did play like that either.
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The alternative is not counterattack.

He just needs to tweak the system to help the midfielder, or if he plays Martial, then can't have a high press. Adjustments like that.

But of course if he doesn't budge, and plays this suicidal set up, he won't be here long.
 
Can’t wait until this utter fraud leaves. I just hope the de idiom is taken by new footballing people, not the old hierarchy.
 
miliebrowndivorceattorney said:
I was reading about the Kane saga today and its interesting read how close he was to signing for United, untill the powers that be pulled the plug and decided funds are needed for Onana and Mount, so the original plan for 2 prolific strikers - one on Ronaldo wages at age 30, was canned.

I do believe Ten Hag was under the assumption the club sale would go through before the new 23/24 season and more funds would come so he could have his 2 strikers including Kane, Mount for a more pressing tactic, and a foot playing goakeeper wich was vital to start any new tactic.
Apparently the choice was given for either 2 strikers - Hoijland and Kane, or one striker and Onana and Mount. With Levy threatening this Kane transfer dragging out till the last minute the last drop.

The powers that be (Glazers, Murtough) decided any transfer dealing needs to be done quickly and so together with Ten Hag, decided to let the Kane dream go. They signed Hoijlund and a week later Kane went for Bayern, where he was even thinking about staying one more year at Spurs and sign a pre contract with United in january 24.

Was this all on Ten Hag? Can we blame him for making a choice for Hojland/Mount/Onana instead of Hojland/Kane and leave the rest? I think he counted on Rashford providing a lot more goals and perhaps fill that hole of a proven striker. He also wanted to build on a new philosophy, a new style of high press with backing of a football capable keeper. With De gea that wouldv been another lost year with maybe even worse results. He solved the Ronaldo problem and achived a 3rd place and fa cup with a very limited squad. And yet, we are p6 with a more negative goal difference than Everton. To me it seems even if Ten Hag has flaws, he still is delivering. Compared to say Poch and Chelsea, even Newcastle, hes not doing a bad job at all. I think the blame of not getting Kane, of putting Ten Hag for that choice, is on the Glazers.
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Harry Kane was never going to sign for Utd.

Players in England also can't sign a pre contract agreement with another club in England in January, they have to wait until there is 1 month left on the current contract.
 
bleedred said:
He couldn't coach any of our existing players.

He cannot coach any of his own signings and players he has worked with for years.

Yet, there exists this mythical transfer team, who Get him players on which he has no say and he will coach the shite out of them.
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It's such a funny notion :lol:
 
AngliaRed said:
Rashford
Martial
Dalot
Lindelof
Mctominay
Shaw (to some extent)

The same players been here since Jose and still to this day in and around the first team not performing never will be good enough to perform at the top level.

ETH has some sort of style of play he is trying and we looked good in spells during Galatasaray, Chelsea & Bournemouth. It always seems to be individual errors costing us in games. Brunos pass, Shaws pass, Dalot not squaring it to Hojland at 0-1 when we was in control. Is that actually ETH fault? Some say yes, he coaches them and can drop them. Like Martial, why on earth is he still starting games after the performances he drops these days.

Martinez
Mount
Casemiro
Shaw ( only just back )
Varane ( frozen out )

If these 5 have been fully fit all season, I dont think we see Lindelof, Mctominay, Dalot near the the starting 11 so thats not been ideal but then again Mctominay has been our top scorer despite having shocking tactical flaws to his game, again is the ETH fault for coaching him?

I was pro ETH, and for the most I still am. I dont think Klopp/Pep/Zidane would get that core list of players performing well.

I do think if we dont qualify against Bayern then get spanked by Liverpool ETH will be sacked.
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The first two of them would definitely have got that core list performing well. Still really stings we missed out on either of them. Absolutely convinced Zidane has no interest of ever managing in England.
 
FFS people.
1.We have been playing without our starting LB and CB for the first 13 games.
2.Our starting CDM has been injured.
3.We bought a young promising striker that needs time to develop
4. Major injury crisis in our squad
5. Every time around us is having inconsistent performances. Look at Spurs with 4 loses in 5. Or City.
6. ETH carried this team to the 3rd spot if the league
7. ETH is trying to change the culture of the team and kick out deadbeats like Sancho
8. All coaches (Pep included) need time to get adjusted to the league

At this our best path forward is a process of rebuilding the team, establishing a proper recruitment and a long term vision for the club. We do not need another stupid reset.
 
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Alek M said:
The state of this forum and thread.

Klopp joined Liverpool in the begging of 2015-16 season. His major success the second year in charge was to take Liverpool to 4th spot in EPl. The major success in his THIRD year in charge 2017-18 was 4th spot in the EPL.

Klopp
2015-16 8th
16/17 4
17/18 4
18/19 2
19/20 1st

Arteta was appointed in 2019. Arsenal finish
2019/20 -8th
2020-21- 8th
2021-22 5th
2022-23 2nd!

Pep was appointed in 2015-16 season
2015/16 - 4th
2016/17 -3rd
2017/18 1st

FFS people.
1.We have been playing without our starting LB and CB for the first 13 games.
2.Our starting CDM has been injured.
3.We bought a young promising striker that needs time to develop
4. Major injury crisis in our squad
5. Every time around us is having inconsistent performances. Look at Spurs with 4 loses in 5. Or City.
6. ETH carried this team to the 3rd spot if the league
7. ETH is trying to change the culture of the team and kick out deadbeats like Sancho
8. All coaches (Pep included) need time to get adjusted to the league

At this our best path forward is a process of rebuilding the team, establishing a proper recruitment and a long term vision for the club. We do not need another stupid reset.
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Good Lord, the Pep/Klopp/Arteta comparisons again. I'm about to have an aneurysm.
 
Alek M said:
The state of this forum and thread.

Klopp joined Liverpool in the begging of 2015-16 season. His major success the second year in charge was to take Liverpool to 4th spot in EPl. The major success in his THIRD year in charge 2017-18 was 4th spot in the EPL.

FFS people.
1.We have been playing without our starting LB and CB for the first 13 games.
2.Our starting CDM has been injured.
3.We bought a young promising striker that needs time to develop
4. Major injury crisis in our squad
5. Every time around us is having inconsistent performances. Look at Spurs with 4 loses in 5. Or City.
6. ETH carried this team to the 3rd spot if the league
7. ETH is trying to change the culture of the team and kick out deadbeats like Sancho
8. All coaches (Pep included) need time to get adjusted to the league

At this our best path forward is a process of rebuilding the team, establishing a proper recruitment and a long term vision for the club. We do not need another stupid reset.
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You're sleazy with your recall of Klopp team. Klopp didn't start at very beginning of 15-16 season. He came in without his own signings or pre season program after Rodgers had a poor start with a very bad squad. That season Klopp ended with 2 finals (League Cup and EL). First full season top 4 was decent for a transitioning season. Second full season third place and a CL final.

The key different is the playing style, point yield under Klopp had been on ascendent trajectory during this period. There was no point during all this, Klopp would come out saying he's abandoning his philosophy and doing the United way equivalent.

Newcastle, Brighton, Arsenal, Man City, Tottenham, Aston Villa, Liverpool... may be inconsistent during this period, it doesn't mean they play mind boggling tactic that results in a style that totally stranger to what their managers are known for. It's not only the inconsistency that is the problem, the problem is our away from to top 8 has been bad. We have been consistently lack of goal and with Rashford had a shite season, it became much worse. There is a reason there are now 15 teams that had scored more than us in the league. A player inexperience is no excuse to have Fulham, Everton, Wolves, Brentford, West Ham scoring more than us after we had played all our easier opposition in first half of the season.

Better recruitment team may help identify better transfer target, it wouldn't fix issue where the manager think he can afford prioritize less urgent positions and push for final puzzle type of signing like GK. Squad assessing ability is poor on ETH part. ETH was the one who brought Martial back into the fold. Built back Rashford status as one of the most important player in the team. Chopping Sancho is great and all, but the action of bringing back Maguire and McTominay as important players indicates that in the long run, ETH can't hold out when he fell out with more and more players. New structure or not, it unlikely benefit a manager who lack of belief in his own method.
 
TsuWave said:
It's such a funny notion :lol:
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Its mindboggling people retort to the argument that if we take the transfer away from Ten hag, somehow he will be better. because???

Its exactly the same shite we had to deal with Ole's latter stages, "He is good at identifying targets than coaching, maybe he should be DOF".

Half our fanbase deserve this combination and a few more thrashings before they see the light.
 
ti vu said:
Better recruitment team may help identify better transfer target, it wouldn't fix issue where the manager think he can afford prioritize less urgent positions and push for final puzzle type of signing like GK. Squad assessing ability is poor on ETH part. ETH was the one who brought Martial back into the fold. Built back Rashford status as one of the most important player in the team. Chopping Sancho is great and all, but the action of bringing back Maguire and McTominay as important players indicates that in the long run, ETH can't hold out when he fell out with more and more players. New structure or not, it unlikely benefit a manager who lack of belief in his own method.
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Our recruitment is dogshit. This is extremely depressing reading over the years:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manchester-united/alletransfers/verein/985

The pain will not be ending any time soon. We need at least 7 new first team players, and even that's on the assumption that Mainoo and Hojlund kick on, and that's 7 successful, young, energetic signings - not constant Ronaldo/Varane/Casemiro types who give one season then need replacing themselves.

The whole thing is FUBAR until the Glazers feck off.
 
The Urban Goose said:
Our recruitment is dogshit. This is extremely depressing reading over the years:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manchester-united/alletransfers/verein/985

The pain will not be ending any time soon. We need at least 7 new first team players, and even that's on the assumption that Mainoo and Hojlund kick on, and that's 7 successful, young, energetic signings - not constant Ronaldo/Varane/Casemiro types who give one season then need replacing themselves.

The whole thing is FUBAR until the Glazers feck off.
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I know, but the Glazers ain't fully leaving the club any time soon. New partial owners running the football sounds cool and all, but ultimately theGlazers still have power/say in financial issue of the club. Football side can't simply get to use more fund than what is agreed by all the owners to provide.

It may take longer a rebuild even if the new partial owner doing thing right. So the idea that new set up can rush to ETH rescue with signings, maybe a pipe dream. It usually takes time for the effect of good recruitment show even in good cases. It's still the manager job to accelerate the process on his end by instilling his philosophy.
 
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erikcred said:
He can't even get his players to play any tempo high work rate game to see out 2 goal leads.

Putting things into perspective would be acknowledging that the frequent 3 (or more) goal hammerings can't be blamed on the players not being able to execute his super awesome invincible style that would have the managers of the football world cowering in fear.

In the PL ETH is just about good enough for a Villa or Spurs. That's it. These teams together a decent run and everyone is pleasantly surprised and lavishes praise. That's what he had at Ajax with that one CL run. Should've stuck to his level.
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He's not.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
Good Lord, the Pep/Klopp/Arteta comparisons again. I'm about to have an aneurysm.
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He can't even recall when Pep was hired.

He was hired prior to the 2016-2017 season. He wasn't hired in the winter of 2015-2016.

It's beyond stupid that these comparisons are made to try and absolve ETH's failures thus far. None of them have managed a season this poorly.
 
ti vu said:
I know, but the Glazers ain't fully leaving the club any time soon. New partial owners running the football sounds cool and all, but ultimately theGlazers still have power/say in financial issue of the club. Football side can't simply get to use more fund than what is agreed by all the owners to provide.

It may take longer a rebuild even if the new partial owner doing thing right. So the idea that new set up can rush to ETH rescue with signings. It takes time for the effect of good recruitment show. It's still the manager job to accelerate the process on his end by instilling his philosophy.
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Agreed.

My problem is I'm struggling to care any more until the Glazers go. It doesn't matter who our manager is, who we sign, who we bomb out etc., we're not winning anything any time soon and are just locked in this never ending cycle of mediocrity.
 
OrcaFat said:
ETH would more than likely get rid of quite a few of our players and if he sticks around he will eventually overhaul the whole place. He couldn’t do it all immediately- no-one can come in and say “you’re all sold” on day one.
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Pure blind faith. What's he doing to suggest he's the man to be given that sort of remit?

Whatever else they do in terms of changing he footballing structure of the club, which clearly needs to be addressed, the new owners won't put up with these results or the performances.
 
Toshey said:
At least I was right that after Chelsea there will be 3 new pages in this thread.
After that fiasco there are 30.

We beat Bayern and there will be 2 pages, we lose to Liverpool 40 new pages.

Either way, whoever is our next manager, he will be fecked straight from the beginning.

At Manchester United you don't get to make mistakes. ETH has made too many, and I think whoever comes will fall into the same pattern of pressure.
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Managing United, like at the top clubs, comes with a different level of expectation. Not all managers can hack it, same as some players can't.
 
bleedred said:
He couldn't coach any of our existing players.

He cannot coach any of his own signings and players he has worked with for years.

Yet, there exists this mythical transfer team, who Get him players on which he has no say and he will coach the shite out of them.
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:lol: Funny but so accurate. If you take away his input on transfers and leave him to work with players that he has on his disposal, somehow that's going to be much better? Because he's setting the world alight with his coaching, tactics and getting the best out of players right now.

ETH is the first manager which fans are trying to absolve of all the blame for transfers. I don't know how that happened and why but it is even being used in his defence. "Not his fault they let him have that much say in transfers". Previous managers were either blamed for poor buys or the club was blamed for not giving the manager more money to spend but it was never like this.
 
I think his time is up. The football on show is dire and that's being polite. The transfers are as bad as Oles, Anthony, Onana, Mount...should seriously have any manager sacked at any other club.

The problem is the club, and what they do if Ten Hag is sacked. Because they have made some atrocious decisions over the last 10 years and history has a way of repeating itself. Let's hope Jim and his team have a plan, because this week is going to be a shit show.
 
We suffered two goals that if the players were defining their defensive zones aggressively instead of being more concerned in man marking (why do we use so much of it on wide areas?!?!? ) and keeping the shape, those goals would be avoided.
 
He ain't the man I'm afraid.

When you can't even get the best out of players you know well and have worked with before at monumental cost to the club, things aren't right.

He's also shown a complete lack of tactical nous, it seems impossible for him to set the team up in a way that makes it difficult for opponents to walk through the middle of the park. His substitutions usually make things worse.

The City and Liverpool debacle should have been a warning sign. He strikes me as someone who's no-where near as clever as they think they are, and will never admit to their own shortcomings. The fault will always lie somewhere else - injuries, form, signings etc.

He deserves to be sacked.
 
Go back to the roots in terms of set up, formation and who to play. We changed and adapted too much imo
 
bleedred said:
He couldn't coach any of our existing players.

He cannot coach any of his own signings and players he has worked with for years.

Yet, there exists this mythical transfer team, who Get him players on which he has no say and he will coach the shite out of them.
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:lol::lol:
 
RedUnited86 said:
He ain't the man I'm afraid.

When you can't even get the best out of players you know well and have worked with before at monumental cost to the club, things aren't right.

He's also shown a complete lack of tactical nous, it seems impossible for him to set the team up in a way that makes it difficult for opponents to walk through the middle of the park. His substitutions usually make things worse.

The City and Liverpool debacle should have been a warning sign. He strikes me as someone who's no-where near as clever as they think they are, and will never admit to their own shortcomings. The fault will always lie somewhere else - injuries, form, signings etc.

He deserves to be sacked.
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I agree with this. It's about the quality of ETH as a manager. The team has no guidance or vision. It's so obvious. He still doesn't know who to play at centre half! Lindeholf did not deserve to be dropped. Shaw has provided quality and balance at left-back. But because ETH insists on having a left-footed centre-half (which is ideal, yet clearly a problem for us right now..) he just keeps messing things up. And that's just one example.

His team, lack cohesion, inspiration, direction.. no one has a clue how to play under him, and every game just raises questions. Continuously coming out with this 'affirmative' answers at press conferences, changes nothing and he knows it.

His team play rubbish football with no heart nor consistency and that's after bringing in 16 of his own players. The only thing saving him is the takeover, because I can't see him being sacked before then. But he will be sacked, because he simply isn't good enough.
 
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