Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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This single pivot set up is going to be the end of him.
It simply doesn't work.
Yep. We don't have the right profile of players to make it work. It reeks of needing top class technical players with a dribbler in order to make it worth it.

Mount/Mctominay as the 8 is killing us. We lose midfield control, making us a transition team more often than necessary. This allows us to concede a shocking amount of open or near open chances as only 1 midfielder can help out in defense. In both McTominay or Mount starts, both of them have had a substantial low amount of passes compared to their midfield partners.

With McTominay, he's not good enough technically to constantly give other players a teammate to pass to in small spaces, hence he doesn't try as much to find himself open further up the field. If he receives the ball, all he can do with it is pass to the winger or pass it back, which is fine on its own, but awful when there are no complimentary through passes through the middle. So basically, even if you get it to McTominay the overload isn't exactly giving you the advantage the tactics are supposed to give you. The best we can do is using McTominay to stand a few yards away from the defensive line, so while Hojlund makes his runs, McTominay can bang in goals every now and again.

With Mount, he hasn't proven good enough at scoring, or creating chances. He's better with the half turns, and starting attacks through the middle, but I believe that a better dribbler would be making more of the situations he has found himself in.


You combine that with Bruno, who is not amazing at keeping things stable and you have a recipe for disaster. It forces United to be a little more in transition than United need to be. Combined with the above lack of attacking advantage, or midfield control and the tactics are going to get Ten Hag sacked.
 
I said a few weeks ago that he thinks short term quick fixes are a decent strategy for long term results.

If he won a game playing Hojlund at right back you can better your last dollar he’d do it again in the following game.

He doesn’t understand what it takes to win consistently in this league. Any decent bit of form cannot last long enough because we are so easy to play against.

You've nailed it on the head. Fergie dropped Ole in games despite scoring hat tricks in games prior. It was for a reason, tactical reasons that media and fans didn't always understand at the time.

For me, my biggest gripe with him is that he can appear not to think longer term. I've consistently complained about lack of urgency, but I'm starting to think its about a lack of planning in general. You don't go into the season signing Mount without thinking there was a possibility that the 4141 wouldn't work. He didn't use the preseason to make any assessments about the club or tactics, both this season and last season. The Mctominay experiment hasn't seen us control games over the last month, but because he scored a few goals, he's in the team. We have Mount and Varane seated on the bench, we're not winning games, yet he hasn't even tried to find a way to get them into the team. People act like the team dropping leads is due to the players being mentally fragile. I actually think games like Copenhagen and Galatasaray have more to do with Ten Haag than the players. I think he communicates poorly in game, doesn't set the team up for mitigating circumstances and is poor at managing games. I don't think Ole would have kept fans' trust with the meltdowns we've had during his run as manager. People would have questioned Ole tactically, but Ten Haag has gotten a free ride on this subject because of his spell at Ajax. Our fans, due to not understanding that other teams have to consistently deal with failed managerial appointments, still assume that managerial performances are consistent and don't change between levels. It's frustrating because it means that a poor manager can come in and automatically get at least two years on the job as long as he has ANY history of success, no matter what level. Ten Haag after the Chelsea game had the nerve to to make mention of how the job was called the impossible job and people were telling him not to take it. We aren't lucky to have him. He hasn't been good. We've had a poor run of hiring managers, but that doesn't make him decent. He had one good performance all season and his first thought was to make a statement about how difficult the job seemed to be. This is how teams end up going for long stretches without winning.
 
Said

Exactly this is what I do not understand. How dumb is ETH. Every single week, there are massive spaces in the midfield and he continues to push for mctominay. If you fail to learn you will be forced to learn. ETH should have even known that the result against Chelsea and everton where total flukes....they created soo much to beat us, they just have lousy strikers.....but I think he gets swept away by the results. Like I said, he will fire himself. You can't gas up players like mctominay week in and out and hope to win consistently. Every single game we lack Control and he cant see it. Yikes

There’s no excuse for it anymore, but it never changes, we start every game on same manner and the I game management just allows it to continue. Can’t work out what he is expecting to happen, we can’t play Chelsea every week.

I have loads of sympathy for any Utd manager because the club is such a shit show bit when the manager just repeats the same basic error over and over he only has himself to blame when he inevitably gets the boot.
 
Legitimately think these accusations of a "mob that ignores obvious shortcoming elsewhere in the club", is just people doing up Don Quixote. I'm yet to see a post here saying United doesn't also need structural change and that this is all on the manager. Structural change and getting rid of a clearly underperforming manager aren't mutually exclusive things, however.

Are people supposed to make a fist to sky and shout "Glazers!" or "Arnold/Murtough" when Ten Hag doesn't realise/address/fix the gaping holes in our midfield that cede so much control of the game and allow bottom half of the table teams to just stroll past?

There have been literal pages of debate in this thread with posters like el3mel and those agreeing with him (i.e. the mob) that have argued vehemently that there is no need for structural change and it's all on Ten Hag. At one point, the accusation was made that those of us recognising the need for structural change would just be blaming that for result, because, even with it, they believe Ten Hag would be doing a shite job.

I never said the need for a structural change couldn't exist alongside the need to replace an under-performing manager.
 
We were not as bad as the score line tells. At least, we were not as chaotic as we had been this season.
IMO it was a similar pattern to a lot of other games this season.

Strong first few minutes, missed some easy chances, then conceded against the run of play and never realistically looked like getting back into it after that.
 
This system is just suicide. It doesn't work. You're basically gifting the opposition multiple free runs at your goal every game and hoping they miss. Even Chelsea, who were total dogshit, managed to get 2-3 sitters out of us.

I'd understand if there was swashbuckling attacking football going on at the other end to justify it, but there's nothing. If Fernandes has an off day like today, we create nowt.

How hard is it just to play Mainoo next to Amrabat and actually control a fecking game for once?
In and of itself, it is a massive cause for concern, but even bigger than that is not making adjustments to what is unfolding in game.

If that’s how he wants to set up, OK, but never having contingencies in place has seriously lowered his standing as a manager for me.

You cannot have one shaky plan and nothing behind it. Further to that, said plan is being pawed over by the managers of the other sides in the league and being deconstructed with absolute ease to the point where there is no question our man is being outcoached.

Looks like we went in for a Sasuke or Naruto and came back with a Rock Lee. /nerd
 
We could miraculously get a result against Bayern and Liverpool at Anfield and I would still want him sacked.

Just not good enough at anything really, and these results against Bournemouth happen way to frequently.
 
In and of itself, it is a massive cause for concern, but even bigger than that is not making adjustments to what is unfolding in game.

If that’s how he wants to set up, OK, but never having contingencies in place has seriously lowered his standing as a manager for me.

You cannot have one shaky plan and nothing behind it. Further to that, said plan is being pawed over by the managers of the other sides in the league and being deconstructed with absolute ease to the point where there is no question our man is being outcoached.

Looks like we went in for a Sasuke or Naruto and came back with a Rock Lee. /nerd

Looks like a one trick pony with a shitty trick which relies entirely on having the best players in a county on his team.
 
Someone who won’t play a single pivot .
Someone who doesn’t put one of the best left backs around at centre back.
Someone who realises Maguire and Varane can play together
Someone who won’t give Martial game time

I can continue…

Ok, but who?
 
There have been literal pages of debate in this thread with posters like el3mel and those agreeing with him (i.e. the mob) that have argued vehemently that there is no need for structural change and it's all on Ten Hag. At one point, the accusation was made that those of us recognising the need for structural change would just be blaming that for result, because, even with it, they believe Ten Hag would be doing a shite job.

I never said the need for a structural change couldn't exist alongside the need to replace an under-performing manager.

Fair if that's accurate - I haven't seen it. Though I'd likely attribute much of those assertions to frustration. Conversely, I do think it is possible to do better than Ten Hag has with the current structure
 
I’m always in two minds about wether or not it’s Ten Hags fault, we’ve gone through enough managers now to know that this group of players usually appear to be winging it, It looks like mission impossible to get them to follow a style of play and the owners won’t sanction enough transfers to make a noticeable change in direction,
I feel for him a bit this season because I’m pretty sure that he wasn’t expecting to start the season and only have Hojlund as his main striker, and the Martinez/Casemiro injuries have been massive really

we need much better recruitment and a ruthlessness with players, until then we’ll just keep seeing the same pattern no matter who the manager is
 
Fair if that's accurate - I haven't seen it. Though I'd likely attribute much of those assertions to frustration. Conversely, I do think it is possible to do better than Ten Hag has with the current structure

You're being too kind to them, although I agree with the final point.
 
I can't believe the majority of us thought he'd be the one to revolutionise our football after years of sludge. He's been worse than José, van Gaal and Ole.
Problem is his inflexibility is absolutely ruinous. He might have been that guy, but he’s not even trying to be that person.

Makes no sense, but if that’s his hill, so be it. No idea why he’d blow his big chance.

Easily the biggest personal disappointment of all post-Fergie managers.
 
IMO it was a similar pattern to a lot of other games this season.

Strong first few minutes, missed some easy chances, then conceded against the run of play and never realistically looked like getting back into it after that.
Yes, it’s true. But in sense of chaotic playing, we seem improved a lot. I still remember those games during our run of the easy fixtures. Every player lost and gave away possession as quickly as possible. It’s hard to watch. We at least now seem carrying something from Chelsea game.
 
We didnt do our best. The Glazers thought Kane was too old.

This is what Rene Meulensteen said a few weeks ago in The Guardian.

“The only thing you can question is the backing of the managers – and, yes, they’ve backed them with finances. But you saw Ole Gunnar Solskjær come out and say ‘I wanted X player, X player’ and none came. For example, signing Harry Kane this summer was guaranteeing 25 to 30 goals, but they didn’t do it because they thought he was too old."

You can hire Barack Obama as coach, if you dont back him up with top players, the one you expect at a 6 billion dollar club...

And please dont go to the 'wed never sign him, Levy would never let him go". If the former Man United assistant to Sir Alex, a man he still talks to regularly, says the Glazers decided not to get him, and gave other examples with other managers like OGS not getting what they wanted, then this is a fact.
I’m not defending the club here, they may well have overruled Ten Hag. My point is, Ten Hag wanted Kane and for whatever reason we couldn’t get it done.
 
We can’t carry on like this. There were rough times under previous managers, but are getting beaten convincingly by any half decent team. The only teams we can beat are relegation fodder or team like Chelsea who are massively inconsisten. Play against a well setup and drilled team, and we are done.

I was at the game today. Today’s loss was not down to effort or application by the players. We play with no structre or real patterns of play. Our midfield is wide open With only Amrabat covering.

The manager can’t get a tune out of this team and when teams built on a shoestring like Brighton and Bournemouth come to Old Trafford and embarrass us, there can be no excuses from the manager.

100% agree! Our attacking play is SO incredibly predictable and simple, teams can sniff us from a mile away
 
There have been literal pages of debate in this thread with posters like el3mel and those agreeing with him (i.e. the mob) that have argued vehemently that there is no need for structural change and it's all on Ten Hag. At one point, the accusation was made that those of us recognising the need for structural change would just be blaming that for result, because, even with it, they believe Ten Hag would be doing a shite job.

I never said the need for a structural change couldn't exist alongside the need to replace an under-performing manager.
Improving structure of the club affects manager succession, meaning we shouldn't be hearing nonsense about giving managers 3 years and hundreds of millions to rebuild the team. Improving club structure should mean we're not giving managers free reign to sign dross like Antony, Hojlund and Mount.

However how does it explain a manager/coach being unable to coach his players to a decent standard? How does it explain being tactically outwitted? How does it explain falling out with players? How does it explain poor in game management? How does it explain getting thrashed 7-0? Or scoring a pathetic 18 games in 16 games?

No doubt our club is run by morons and it's shite. No doubt we have infrastructure in need of modernisation. But anyone waffling on about structure as a way to absolve the manager of blame for failing as a manager, is frankly talking out their arse. Ironically if our club had a better structure in place we'd have probably sacked Ten Hag by now because we'd have already had a list of suitable replacements
 
Improving structure of the club affects manager succession, meaning we shouldn't be hearing nonsense about giving managers 3 years and hundreds of millions to rebuild the team. Improving club structure should mean we're not giving managers free reign to sign dross like Antony, Hojlund and Mount.

However how does it explain a manager/coach being unable to coach his players to a decent standard? How does it explain being tactically outwitted? How does it explain falling out with players? How does it explain poor in game management? How does it explain getting thrashed 7-0? Or scoring a pathetic 18 games in 16 games?

No doubt our club is run by morons and it's shite. No doubt we have infrastructure in need of modernisation. But anyone waffling on about structure as a way to absolve the manager of blame for failing as a manager, is frankly talking out their arse. Ironically if our club had a better structure in place we'd have probably sacked Ten Hag by now because we'd have already had a list of suitable replacements
The structure and ownership will fix Ten Hag's brain, it will provide him with the holy grail of footballing knowledge, including wisdom on how to setup a midfield. We will then be able to smash Bournemouth 1-0.
 
Is this a joke

The jury's not out they are categorically worse than who they replaced. And Antony didnt even replace anyone.

And we signed two over 30s in midfield who gave us 6 months of decent performance level, and are now both finished.
Eriksen was free and looks our most composed and technical player when he’s fit. Can’t say he’s not been a good signing.

Onana has had some howlers, but if you look at the numbers he’s outperforming many of the keepers in the league. De Gea had some clangers last season too, but couldn’t use his feet. Getting rid was the right call, we just haven’t seen the benefits of onana yet because of injuries.

Can’t really defend Antony, but I stand by saying the jury is out on him. He isn’t going to get Salah numbers, but he’s a link up player. An overpriced one, but Ten Hag didn’t ask us to spend 80m. He was available for half that earlier in the summer.
 
Eriksen was free and looks our most composed and technical player when he’s fit. Can’t say he’s not been a good signing.

Onana has had some howlers, but if you look at the numbers he’s outperforming many of the keepers in the league. De Gea had some clangers last season too, but couldn’t use his feet. Getting rid was the right call, we just haven’t seen the benefits of onana yet because of injuries.

Can’t really defend Antony, but I stand by saying the jury is out on him. He isn’t going to get Salah numbers, but he’s a link up player. An overpriced one, but Ten Hag didn’t ask us to spend 80m. He was available for half that earlier in the summer.
Antony has actually played well for us of late.
 
Honestly don't know where we go from here. After a promising first season under ten Hag, the team is going backwards. Again.

Yes, there are injuries but plenty of other teams have those and still maintain a discernable style of play. I see none here. I have some sympathy for ten Hag given some of the crap he's been saddled with. But his own signings; Onana, Antony, Hojlund, Mount are at best inconsistent, at worst, ridiculously expensive and shockingly mediocre.
 
I’m no longer convinced ETH is the man for the job but I’m totally against sacking him. Why? We will simply repeat the same mistakes.

We can’t afford to keep replacing half the team with new players every time we change manager. We can’t afford to keep changing our style of play. And sacking the manager will just mean the next manager a year down the line will suffer the same outcome.

We have had some good managers now. They can’t all consistently follow the same trajectory and it always be their fault.

For me, our footballing structure is broken. And we must fix that first. We need a proper strategy. What do we want this team to play like? We need a proper scouting team who are laser focused only on bringing in players who fit that strategy. And then, once we have all that, we can start worrying about who our manager should be. Because only then will we at least know what type of manager we want, have the support around him, and players who hopefully already fit his vision; although of course he will want to make tweaks. But tweaks is much easier than fundamentally trying to change what we are doing.

Until we fix that first we are doomed whoever we bring in. We will have pockets of success but will never be good consistently.
 
It all good and well sacking managers but the lack of accountability for the players makes me sick. How many of these same players since LVG days have had contract extensions. Honestly this club is just pathetic.

That's nonsense. All i ever see are people blaming players. It's also not the same players. Maguire was signed under Ole. Shaw, Rashford and Martial are the only LVG players left.

Now take into account that we have 20 plus players in our squads. Every summer, we've been consistently flogging them off since the summer of 2014. Yet despite failing for ten years, we've only had 5 permanent managers. That's less than Barcelona have had. Less than Chelsea have had. Less than Real Madrid have had. Less than Juventus have had. Less than Bayern have had. All of whom have been far more successful that we have been in the last ten years. Yet it's simply the players? We've had 2 completely unproven managers ( Moyes and Ole), with 2 dinosaurs (LVG and Mourinho), prior to ETH. All of whom have proven to not be great after they've left us.

The structure United has is archaic. It's bad because it hasn't maintained standards. It's bad BECAUSE managers like Ten Haag have gotten away with long stretches of failure. They haven't been held accountable. The idea would be for the new DOF to oversee the manager, ensure that they are held accountable and remove the cloack of invicibility that seems to exist for them at United.

My gripe isn't necessarily with ETH. I hope he can turn this around by winning games and proving he can challenge. However, I don't think as a club we should be inclined to wait for that to happen. ETH has a duty to ensure this happens as soon he can with consistently good performances. I might hope for him to do well, but he doesn't, there HAS to be consequences. United can't afford to keep wasting seasons based on hope. We aren't Newcastle with Eddie Howe hoping to turn us to global giants from scratch. City sacked Mancini despite the fact that he was actually attempting to do that. United are a club that in the last ten years has spent more than any other outside of maybe Chelsea/City. We have consistently had good players in our squads. It may have been mixed with some less talented players, but it should always have been good enough for our squads to shell out good performances. I don't think Pochettino had better squads between 2014 and 2018 at Spurs. Yet they could have good performances sides they were better than. It's just not good enough and fans can't continue to blame players for this anymore. From Di Maria, to Ibra's age, to Pogba, to Bruno, to Rashford, to Ronaldo. It's not downing tools when a team doesn't play well. It's simply a poor performance. We had these under Fergie and I can't remember people saying the players weren't playing for him because they had a low energy away game.
 
You've nailed it on the head. Fergie dropped Ole in games despite scoring hat tricks in games prior. It was for a reason, tactical reasons that media and fans didn't always understand at the time.

For me, my biggest gripe with him is that he can appear not to think longer term. I've consistently complained about lack of urgency, but I'm starting to think its about a lack of planning in general. You don't go into the season signing Mount without thinking there was a possibility that the 4141 wouldn't work. He didn't use the preseason to make any assessments about the club or tactics, both this season and last season. The Mctominay experiment hasn't seen us control games over the last month, but because he scored a few goals, he's in the team. We have Mount and Varane seated on the bench, we're not winning games, yet he hasn't even tried to find a way to get them into the team. People act like the team dropping leads is due to the players being mentally fragile. I actually think games like Copenhagen and Galatasaray have more to do with Ten Haag than the players. I think he communicates poorly in game, doesn't set the team up for mitigating circumstances and is poor at managing games. I don't think Ole would have kept fans' trust with the meltdowns we've had during his run as manager. People would have questioned Ole tactically, but Ten Haag has gotten a free ride on this subject because of his spell at Ajax. Our fans, due to not understanding that other teams have to consistently deal with failed managerial appointments, still assume that managerial performances are consistent and don't change between levels. It's frustrating because it means that a poor manager can come in and automatically get at least two years on the job as long as he has ANY history of success, no matter what level. Ten Haag after the Chelsea game had the nerve to to make mention of how the job was called the impossible job and people were telling him not to take it. We aren't lucky to have him. He hasn't been good. We've had a poor run of hiring managers, but that doesn't make him decent. He had one good performance all season and his first thought was to make a statement about how difficult the job seemed to be. This is how teams end up going for long stretches without winning.

I can follow this up to a point but OGS and Jose were criticised for playing park the bus or counter play. Now we have a coach playing much more modern and hes getting very erratic results. With this currrent squad, what do you want or expect? Back to park the bus, result coach? He would get sacked within a few weeks and in game would get demolish.

At least he is getting more honest about where the current man united squad is at.

""

Asked if his current squad could achieve the consistency required of an elite team, Ten Hag admitted the answer was negative.

"As a squad, we are not good enough to be consistent," he said.

"I'm annoyed, disappointed, definitely. I expected something different. The way we started was no good. It was poor."


https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/67672460
 
In some way I feel bad for him, you never want to see anyone lose their job, and given enough time most people will get decent enough at their job to be passable. Now, the issue is, as a football club we should be up there, which means managers will not be given the same time here as they would at a smaller club, it is also why we pay premium for managers because we want the best of the best, someone to hit the ground running.

ETH so far hasn't built on the progress from the halfway point of last season. Some of that is due to other factors of course (injuries, form, horrible structure above him), but there are aspects where you'd expect to see a manager's work where I think he's fallen short.

The far into his tenure I'd expect him to have seen how open we are playing a 4-1-4-1 formation. That in itself isn't so bad, but our team right now is more likely to concede than score. Our wingers are terribly off form, striker can't score to save their lives, and our one decent DM has become a crock. So why not build a strong core first? Focus on players who can hold the ball, pass it accurately and consistently. Whatever McTominay(and I'm one of his biggest fans around here) gives us in terms of goals, we lose in control. We cannot play pingpong and win most games.

Today's game, despite the early setback was crying out for some control in midfield. They were happy to cede possession and we only needed to be patient and carve them open. Instead we kept turning it over anytime someone as much as pressed our midfield. Biggest culprits being Bruno (who sadly cannot help himself), and McTominay. Our wingers and forwards then have to do more off the ball work defending whenever they broke hurting us even further as our shape is out of whack whenever we recover it.

I still don't think this union will work or that ETH himself is good enough for that level that we should be at right now (not even elite but the class below). So will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

The bolded part is what annoys me so much in football. Fans can talk so freely about how executives and directors that they have no clue about should lose their job. They can ask for players to be transferred and expelled with no feelings, but struggle to see a manager lose his job. It's hypocrisy, not from the fans necessarily, but from the media that have made fans feel this way. Everyone has a family and wants to be successful. Do people think it was easy for Smalling and Jones to hear they weren't good enough for United before being shipped off? It's life and we consistently give manager a special reprieve because we think of them with more sympathy.
 
Instead we've repeatedly seen us completely out coached. I don't buy this shit about players losing the manager or not working hard. Players aren't that dumb, and professionals don't just give up (for the most part). They'll work hard, but you subconsciously lose belief when you find yourself repeatedly in bad positions and chasing back, covering too much ground to close down, surrounded by too many players, having to work too hard to actually pass the ball through the lines and not having easy to use options.... It's all coaching. They'll get frustrated and it makes them look worse than they are. Some things ok, yeah, some players lack some basic skills and some players make brain dead decisions. But those are reduced through good coaching and easier to spot. This is repeated patterns of tactical failure.
Agreed with all of that. Well said. I think exactly the same too.
 
If Kane came he'd probably build the style around him so I think it would be different.
I meant in terms of goals scored by him. And I honestly don’t think the style would have changed so much. Anyway i suppose it doesn’t really matter
 
I’m no longer convinced ETH is the man for the job but I’m totally against sacking him. Why? We will simply repeat the same mistakes.

We can’t afford to keep replacing half the team with new players every time we change manager. We can’t afford to keep changing our style of play. And sacking the manager will just mean the next manager a year down the line will suffer the same outcome.

We have had some good managers now. They can’t all consistently follow the same trajectory and it always be their fault.

For me, our footballing structure is broken. And we must fix that first. We need a proper strategy. What do we want this team to play like? We need a proper scouting team who are laser focused only on bringing in players who fit that strategy. And then, once we have all that, we can start worrying about who our manager should be. Because only then will we at least know what type of manager we want, have the support around him, and players who hopefully already fit his vision; although of course he will want to make tweaks. But tweaks is much easier than fundamentally trying to change what we are doing.

Until we fix that first we are doomed whoever we bring in. We will have pockets of success but will never be good consistently.

Pretty much thinking the same myself. I am willing to put up with inconsistency as long as there is at least some plan place to build a team.

Now in here, some people say he has no plan and others moan about him sticking with the 316 build up in attack that leave the team exposed when the ball is lost. Personally I think it's the lack of pace in that 3-1 situation that is a huge problem. In attack the wide players aren't true wingers but are being pinned out on the wing, the fullbacks, particularly on the right just don't suit this system or have the attribute to support the profile of the wide players.

So either

You continue and build a squad to play his way and keep him. Work with him to buy the players who are needed and bin off the ones who don't fit.

Or you sack him off and bring in someone who will put a structure there that will suit the players currently at the club. That structure will undoubtedly be a 4231, the club has become married to it. It killed Arsene at Arsenal and it's going to kill any manager who comes into Utd.

Either way, Utd aren't going to be winning anything meaningful anytime soon.
 
Improving structure of the club affects manager succession, meaning we shouldn't be hearing nonsense about giving managers 3 years and hundreds of millions to rebuild the team. Improving club structure should mean we're not giving managers free reign to sign dross like Antony, Hojlund and Mount.

However how does it explain a manager/coach being unable to coach his players to a decent standard? How does it explain being tactically outwitted? How does it explain falling out with players? How does it explain poor in game management? How does it explain getting thrashed 7-0? Or scoring a pathetic 18 games in 16 games?

No doubt our club is run by morons and it's shite. No doubt we have infrastructure in need of modernisation. But anyone waffling on about structure as a way to absolve the manager of blame for failing as a manager, is frankly talking out their arse. Ironically if our club had a better structure in place we'd have probably sacked Ten Hag by now because we'd have already had a list of suitable replacements

I've yet to see anyone actually argue that Ten Hag should get three years and hundreds of millions, but plenty that wanted him out two games into the season just pretended that's what was being argued when anyone expressed some sympathy for the situation and didn't call for his immediate firing. I agree, a proper structure stops those transfers and possibly even identifies a different manager entirely.

Tactics are an issue, as is game management, as is our blunt attack (although that can probably be included with tactics).

However, I'm not going to get too hung up on one freak result, or him falling out with a petulant idiot like Sancho who has barely ever performed for the club, and has a history of acting the cnut. Nor do I care too much about the rumours of a falling out with Varane, who is regularly injured, has been shite when he's played, and has apparently been eyeing up a move to Saudi since he was dropped.

The coaching thing is something I don't believe to be a fair criticism. People expect too much improvement from players who simply aren't good enough. Dalot and AWB, while still ineffective, have looked better for ETH than previous managers, Lindelof has arguably been steadier, and Ten Hag has managed to get Maguire and McTominay performing, despite their obvious shortcomings and obvious unsuitability to his system (however flawed that system may be).

People bring up Klopp and Liverpool, like they weren't still shite the season he joined, and not too hot until a few seasons after when they'd replaced half the squad and spent record fees on a goalkeeper and defender. People also like to bring up Newcastle, ignoring the massive amounts they've spent signing a whole starting line up of new senior players, and as if the "improved" players aren't the first ones used as excuses when Newcastle lose.

The ineffectiveness of the likes of Antony and now Hojlund are bigger concerns than average players that he inherited remaining average players, and that's more of a transfer issue than a coaching one, because you can at least see that they're doing what's asked of them (aside from scoring and creating goals).

He'd have probably had more success if we'd had a proper structure, although a club with a proper structure probably avoids hiring any of his predecessors, and of course, doesn't just sign the first player the manager names, for a daft fee, when looking at transfer targets.

There's probably not many that would be against firing him now, and even fewer if we lose to Liverpool next weekend.
 
I wonder if our coaches are telling ETH to change his set up? Maclaren was assistant to SAF in the most successful team in our history so you’d hope he could spot the flaws in the current set up!
 
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