Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Might not see past January. This month we have Bayern, Liverpool, West Ham and Villa and I don't fancy us in any of them. Then in January its Tottenham and Wolves.

It's just tiresome nowadays... I don't really mourn the losses anymore just indifferent to it, but on the flip side I don't really celebrate the wins either because you know the next game will be a car wreck. Sad times.
 
Ronaldo's Love Child said:
In one sense, ETH should go. His signings have been poor and expensive. My initial doubts about some of his transfers were suspended as I presumed he knew exactly what he was doing. As fans, we sometimes don't look beyond the player's name and reputation. As a manager, one would assume they look at transfer targets more clinically and have a clear idea as to what system they will play and what pieces they need to buy to achieve that.

Antony has not improved us.
Mount has not improved us when he has played.
Onana has not improved us.

You could add more to the list.

He has been shorn of three attackers with events largely out of his control i.e. Ronaldo, Greenwood and Sancho (I personally believe he had no choice but to exile Sancho).

The problem in sacking ETH is there are no obvious and available candidates. The up and coming managers would probably prefer to continue their ascendancy in their current jobs rather than prematurely risk their reputation joining our shit show.

Now more than ever we need a Grand Plan for how the club is run and how the team players REGARDLESS OF WHO THE MANAGER IS.
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Yes but sometimes clubs just HAVE to sack their manager and take their chances. We did it two years ago. Fat lot of good it did us. If this shit continues, the board will have no choice.
 
jimmyb2000 said:
Rinse and repeat with the next manager we ruin.
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Think a lot of us fear this. Is it possible that none of the managers post Fergie were as bad as they were made out to be? At this stage, it isn’t a stretch to suggest the club is such a shambles it doesn’t matter who’s at the helm, this ship’s sinking regardless.
 
Don’t understand how we have regressed so much even since last season. Clear to see we had to spend budget on a midfielder with legs to help casemiro and a striker to score goals. How did we get it so wrong and manage to make the squad worse
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
I’m curious what the high reward is. We barely have high scoring games and we are 6th on the table
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I don’t know whether it can eventually work out. One month ago, I didn’t believe so. But now, I would like to see more . I start to feel it might actually work. The result like today is a good lesson for him and the team. That’s it.
 
city-puma said:
As shown in Chelsea game, it can work. But in this game, I think ETH made mistake to set up our backline for whatever reason. He has been beaten tactically several times. That’s a fact. Agree that the score line is unacceptable but we should also know his approach is always high risk and high reward. We will get more high score losses until the team can eventually click. Of course, he has to stay in job first.
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Only because Chelsea was pretty awful too. That game could easily have finished 4-4 or 5-4 either way. This tactic is too open. How long are we meant to wait for it to click? He has to start picking a tactic that picks up points in games we might otherwise lose
 
Parma Dewol said:
Think a lot of us fear this. Is it possible that none of the managers post Fergie were as bad as they were made out to be? At this stage, it isn’t a stretch to suggest the club is such a shambles it doesn’t matter who’s at the helm, this ship’s sinking regardless.
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This is what annoys me with the rabid "sack the manager" crowd.

They make out that everyone we've hired has been unqualified for the job, when Mourinho, van Gaal and Ten Hag almost certainly were, at least on paper. There's even a decent argument for Moyes in that regard.
 
Parma Dewol said:
Think a lot of us fear this. Is it possible that none of the managers post Fergie were as bad as they were made out to be? At this stage, it isn’t a stretch to suggest the club is such a shambles it doesn’t matter who’s at the helm, this ship’s sinking regardless.
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It’s possible, but then how many of them have achieved anything as good/better than the United job since they got the sack?
 
RedSky said:
Reminder, this is the table when Jose was sacked. He qualified past the CL Group Stages.

Pos​
Club​
Games​
W​
D​
L​
GF​
GA​
GD​
Pts​
1st​
17​
14​
3​
0​
37​
7​
30​
45​
2nd​
17​
14​
2​
1​
48​
10​
38​
44​
3rd​
17​
13​
0​
4​
31​
16​
15​
39​
4th​
17​
11​
4​
2​
35​
14​
21​
37​
5th​
17​
10​
4​
3​
37​
23​
14​
34​
6th​
17​
7​
5​
5​
29​
29​
0​
26​

Here's how it looks right now:

Pos​
Club​
Games​
W​
D​
L​
GF​
GA​
GD​
Pts​
1st​
16​
11​
4​
1​
36​
15​
21​
37​
2nd​
16​
11​
4​
1​
33​
14​
19​
37​
3rd​
16​
10​
3​
3​
34​
20​
14​
33​
4th​
15​
9​
3​
3​
36​
17​
19​
30​
5th​
15​
8​
3​
4​
29​
22​
7​
27​
6th​
16​
9​
0​
7​
18​
21​
-3​
27​

Depressing fact: Since the League Cup win our joint highest goal scorers in the league is Bruno and McTominay both on 6 goals in 29 games.
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18 goals scored at this point of the season is amazingly bad. We're literally lucky to be at that point tally. We're so used to losing now that this doesn't even feel near as bad as Jose's disaster season and yet it really is.
 
golden_blunder said:
The system clearly isn’t working, so either the players can’t work it or the coach can’t get his ideas across. Either way we can’t continue to concede 3 goals, it’s the definition of insanity
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It’s ridiculous, having that extra player up top is congesting the space for the attackers to use but we keep playing the same fecking way. All we’re doing is narrowing the middle of the pitch for the opposition since they drop in through the middle to mark Scott.
Look at our crosses when we get through the wings. It’s constantly resulting in us not finding a man because the attackers don’t have the space to make runs and the extra opposition defender in there is constantly clearing up. It’s like Liverpool with 9 men v Spurs, that’s what we’re facing every week and the result is 18 goals scored.
Arsenal and City play the same way this season and those two are struggling in open play to break teams down
 
VP89 said:
I also see Jose was 19 points off top while Ten Hag is 10 pts from top.

This is why it's probably best to look at leagues in isolation.
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If Liverpool beat us which seems likely we'll be 13 points off top with a minus GD. That's assuming Arsenal don't turn it around tonight and then beat Brighton, if they do they'll finish on 42 points and then we'll be 15 points off top. It's clear for people to see that we'll be miles away from top and both seasons have been shite with both Managers deserving the sack. Jose at least got us through the CL Group stages. We'll be lucky to get Europa.
 
Donut said:
How long can someone persist with the same tactics that so obviously don’t work?
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Ye of little faith, if he persists with it long enough. Everything will click into place, McTom will be Zidane 2.0, Dalot will learn how to cross a ball, Martial will do something...

...maybe.
 
Alex99 said:
This is what annoys me with the rabid "sack the manager" crowd.

They make out that everyone we've hired has been unqualified for the job, when Mourinho, van Gaal and Ten Hag almost certainly were, at least on paper. There's even a decent argument for Moyes in that regard.
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Lvg and ETH played/play tactics suited for anywhere but the PL. I think they underestimated the strength of the opponents in the league.
Moyes was probably out of his depth but maybe could have been given more time.
Mourinho was past his best when we got him. He’s also a short termist
Ole did well first season and he’s the one you could argue he should have had a support system
 
Look….

The club is rotten.

Our most talented players have massive holes in their game.

The owners have stripped the soul out of everything we used to stand for.

BUT….

None of those facts justify or explain the myriad of awful decisions the manager is making.

Awful signings.

Strange favouritism of players who clearly aren’t up to it.

But more than any other reason…. The continuation of this god awful, midfield-less system that sees us concede sooo many chances every game is reason enough for him to be sacked alone. He is either clueless, or stubborn to the point of madness. Everyone and their dog can see that the system hasn’t worked once all season.
 
RedSky said:
If Liverpool beat us which seems likely we'll be 13 points off top with a minus GD. That's assuming Arsenal don't turn it around tonight and then beat Brighton, if they do they'll finish on 42 points and then we'll be 15 points off top. It's clear for people to see that we'll be miles away from top and both seasons have been shite with both Managers deserving the sack. Jose at least got us through the CL Group stages. We'll be lucky to get Europa.
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And after all of that hypothetical gymnastics he wont be 19 points off. So it's still all ifs buts and maybes.

I agree about the CL being terrible, I'm not going to defend Ten Hag on that. But Jose didnt walk in with the injury crisis Ten Hag did and that is being massively massively underplayed.
 
Rista said:
18 goals scored at this point of the season is amazingly bad. We're literally lucky to be at that point tally. We're so used to losing now that this doesn't even feel near as bad as Jose's disaster season and yet it really is.
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Exactly. It's surely the worst goal scoring season we've had in decades no?
 
Could be curtains with the next run.
Bayern, Liverpool away Villa.
That could easily be 3 defeats with Liverpool probably a comfortable one.
 
sammyhol said:
Look….

The club is rotten.

Our most talented players have massive holes in their game.

The owners have stripped the soul out of everything we used to stand for.

BUT….

None of those facts justify or explain the myriad of awful decisions the manager is making.

Awful signings.

Strange favouritism of players who clearly aren’t up to it.

But more than any other reason…. The continuation of this god awful, midfield-less system that sees us concede sooo many chances every game is reason enough for him to be sacked alone. He is either clueless, or stubborn to the point of madness. Everyone and their dog can see that the system hasn’t worked once all season.
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He's dropped everyone except Bruno. There aren't anymore combinations of players to try.

Yeah you can always argue individual decisions can be better but ultimately its just not a very good team. Not good enough and massively inconsistent as well.
 
If we are not winning the ball high up the pitch against naive teams falling into our pressing traps we are utterly toothless. Bournemouth kept us at bay fairly comfortably today then hit us well on the break, bypassing our press by going direct the taking advantage of some sloppy passing through midfield.

We have scored 18 goals in 16 games this season. That is frankly not good enough we don't create enough chances and that is on the manager IMO.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
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He says all the right things, problem is it keeps happening to us. We're mentality midgets. Even playing badly we shouldn't be trashed by low opposition, nevermind at Old Trafford. This team has no self love as soon as thing go south we melt. That starts with the manager.
 
Sandikan said:
Could be curtains with the next run.
Bayern, Liverpool away Villa.
That could easily be 3 defeats with Liverpool probably a comfortable one.
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What happens if he wins a couple and loses a couple?
 
SAFMUTD said:
He says all the right things, problem is it keeps happening to us. We're mentality midgets. Even playing badly we shouldn't be trashed by low opposition, nevermind at Old Trafford. This team has no self love as soon as thing go south we melt. That starts with the manager.
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I agree with this, and he takes some blame. However at a club thats been toxic with broken mentality for a decade, how long does it take to straighten that out? Serious question because I feel like our supporters are split on how long things take to 'fix' at our club and that might be the root of a lot of our divide.
 
VP89 said:
And after all of that hypothetical gymnastics he wont be 19 points off. So it's still all ifs buts and maybes.

I agree about the CL being terrible, I'm not going to defend Ten Hag on that. But Jose didnt walk in with the injury crisis Ten Hag did and that is being massively massively underplayed.
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No he'll be a possible 13 if not 15 points behind with a horrific GD. But that's somehow not so bad...?

I'll go back to my original point that Ten Hags been woeful since the League Cup Final. Way before the injury crisis. We've scored 34 goals, conceded 36 in 29 games. As soon as Rashfords goals dried up we've been a very, very bad team.
 
golden_blunder said:
Only because Chelsea was pretty awful too. That game could easily have finished 4-4 or 5-4 either way. This tactic is too open. How long are we meant to wait for it to click? He has to start picking a tactic that picks up points in games we might otherwise lose
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It’s too simple to just say Chelsea was awful, isn’t it? This is EPL, the most competitive league. No one comes into the game without a fight. In that game, we simply constrained them so that they looked bad.
The tactic is too open, but we know his high risk high reward approach before we hired him. It has no difference in concept to Klopp’s philosophy, the more I think about it. It’s the reason he always have high win rate but rare draws. This season, he want us to play this tactic. It’s a disaster result wise and performance wise, but he at least doesn’t abandon it by now. I think there is a chance it could work out if he can pick the right personnel based on the opponent. Today for me, he picked the wrong one.
 
RedSky said:
No he'll be a possible 13 if not 15 points behind with a horrific GD. But that's somehow not so bad...?

I'll go back to my original point that Ten Hags been woeful since the League Cup Final. Way before the injury crisis. We've scored 34 goals, conceded 36 in 29 games. As soon as Rashfords goals dried up we've been a very, very bad team.
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Yes. And that to me points to fractures in squad quality. Garnacho shouldn't be depended on to start this many games, Antony yes was a mistake and Hojlund is too raw.

Who's fault is this really? JUST our manager? What should he do? Should he spend his 200m of the summer on a brand new front 3? Should he have got a different striker? Which one? Are our scouts and Murtough faultless?

Also, you keep going on about goal difference but a big part of that is how leaky we are. And you keep ignoring the fact that he had a lot of players out for a long time, during which we did lose a lot of goals this season.
 
Sorry Erik this is not acceptable, you gave it your best it just wasn't anywhere close to good enough.
 
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