Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[crossy1686]

Fair. But I've thought it's been poor for a long while now, which has been compounded by further poor signings.

For sure, it speaks volumes that we’re back to relying on the players that have been poor for years instead of the Ten Hags own signings.

 

[Appletonred]

He is clearly trying to install much needed discipline and a better culture at the club and its quite obvious that some of the players who have been there awhile are not taking it very well.

 

[Overhaul FC]

If our issue is players not running hard enough, or working hard enough.

Which of Ten Hags transfer signings have improved us in this regard?

Martinez, Amrabat, Antony and Hojlund it could be argued work hard. Although Antony's lack of actual skill or talent negates his work ethic defensively.

Eriksen and Casemiro don't cut it and we're already looking at replacing them yet Mount has failed spectacularly so far at being a CM.

Malacia is somewhere in between and hasn't improved on Shaw's physicality.

Ten Hag has to replace the shirkers with players who at a minimum put a shift in. Rashford, Martial and Sancho should be the priority targets to replace with hard working attackers.

It would make the world of difference, however it looks as though the club are leaking stories about him losing the dressing room to create an opportunity to sack him rather than replace a whole attack.

 

[ColvaleGoa]

Honestly - I think we all had hopes for him to succeed.

But Jesus Christ, what a boring and clueless bloke his been.
Those empty eyes and the humourless attitude paired with strange tactics and decisions. I know I would not have liked him as my boss. Bring someone with some charisma, attitude and humour. Someone who are able to talk to players. Just don’t put them on the sideline when they don’t “behave”. That kind of mentality went out in the eighties. We don’t even put kids in the corner anymore since the society has developed since then. Read the (dressing) room.

Further, if he signs one more player who he “worked with” I want my money back. There is consulting firms who can help with transfers if he and the other clowns can’t do it themselves.

Tired of this farce now. And always blame the players right? Wrong. All human beings are pack animals, we all need a leader and a path to follow. Clearly this is not that.

Worst football played in history of this club. No heart, no tactics, no pace, nothing.

Stop with “it’s the Glazers”. They live in effing Florida. They don’t missmotivate Rasford from there, do they? They have brought in bundles of cash who a lot of people have misplaced on players we don’t need or in the EtH case don’t can get to perform.

Just thank him for his service, give him all his money and bye bye love!

And then start the whole Boom Bang Bust cycle again with a shiny new manager.

Just let persist and give him more time.. Sacking EtH won't solve anything.

 

[ColvaleGoa]

He is clearly trying to install much needed discipline and a better culture at the club and its quite obvious that some of the players who have been there awhile are not taking it very well.

I think this is what it boils down to. Add some Sancho Stans and it becomes quite toxic esp how close Rashford is to that primadonna.

 

[crossy1686]

I think this is what it boils down to. Add some Sancho Stans and it becomes quite toxic esp how close Rashford is to that primadonna.

People keep saying this about Rashford but AWB is the only one that’s been pictured hanging out with him outside of football.

 

[Robbie Boy]

For sure, it speaks volumes that we’re back to relying on the players that have been poor for years instead of the Ten Hags own signings.

We realistically haven't moved forward as a club, a squad, or on the pitch since Jose got sacked. Which is impressive considering we've spent around 700m in that period.

 

[Nogho]

And then start the whole Boom Bang Bust cycle again with a shiny new manager.

Just let persist and give him more time.. Sacking EtH won't solve anything.

This was exactly my thought as well, until recently when I started to realise that there is nothing pointing to better future. Why give this bloke a longer term when nothing seems to develop in the right direction. If 1,5 year and 300 million isn’t enough to implement some kind of improvement then what is? Wait for him to resign? Wait for Santa to deliver some kind of Christmas miracle?

 

[Berbaclass]

 

[RuudTom83]

Have the games done much to stem any feelings of negativity? I've never seen us have such a level of certainty to play poorly.

Sport/Football is meant to be an escape, I'll always enjoy watching the matches...you just need to be realistic and accept where the team/club is currently. Also every weekend if you look at the results most so called top teams are having life and death matches with last minute winners against so called smaller teams.

What I utterly hate is the constant misery surrounding the club, which makes following the club very tiresome imo.

 

[Robbie Boy]

It doesn’t matter which manager has had the most negativity post Fergie, talks of cults and nonsense like this takes away from the actual issue which is that Ten Hag has taken us backward this season.

Exactly. There's enough to actually have concerns about without making up twaddle for extra effect.

 

[Berbaclass]

I was watching that Fuve video yesterday and I agree with Howson. The team desperately needs something to bond so they play for each other. Bollocks to player for the manager because that should be irrelevant anyway. They should play for the club and their teammates.

Get them all in a room and have a right sort out. Have a few scraps if needed.

 

[stefan92]

I like this tweet. Two is a very specific number, so this is a leak about players being unhappy about leaks - did the leaker leak that his teammates are unhappy about him, or did another leaker now leak that the squad identified two leakers? Either way the irony is strong here.

 

[Berbaclass]

I like this tweet. Two is a very specific number, so this is a leak about players being unhappy about leaks - did the leaker leak that his teammates are unhappy about him, or did another leaker now leak that the squad identified two leakers? Either way the irony is strong here.

Or it’s just an open secret in the media who they are because they’ve done it consistently..

 

[Kostov]

I am pro sacking ten Hag, but watching how another manager goes down the drain and the same underperforming players "feel disillusioned" makes me feel sick.

 

[stefan92]

Or it’s just an open secret in the media who they are because they’ve done it consistently..

I wouldn't be surprised if their identity is known, but still someone would need to leak that the others in the squad are right now angry about that.

 

[romufc]

Hopefully, Ten Hag now drops Rashford, Bruno, Martial, McT as they have been the constant in many many poor performances for number of years.

We always go back to the same old story, Rashford and Martial not trying, Bruno just all over the shop, McT ghosting.

We need to start playing players that will give their all to the team, we need to get rid of these players

 

[Dec9003]

Exactly. There's enough to actually have concerns about without making up twaddle for extra effect.

Yeah, or having a long drawn out discussion about Ole and going on about cults, he’s gone now we need to move on.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

This was exactly my thought as well, until recently when I started to realise that there is nothing pointing to better future. Why give this bloke a longer term when nothing seems to develop in the right direction. If 1,5 year and 300 million isn’t enough to implement some kind of improvement then what is? Wait for him to resign? Wait for Santa to deliver some kind of Christmas miracle?

Unfortunately it would be certainly a Christmas miracle if ETH turns it around. Keeping him would just delay the inevitable. Major alarm bells keep ringing regarding ETH:

- 0 effort and motivation instilled to the team - that's the most worrying part.
- He spent a lot of money on players he does not use anymore or are terrible at kicking the ball.
- No cohesive play style whatsoever.
- Results and approach against big teams is abysmal.
- Underperforming players who we know are better than what they show now.
- Keeps playing the same names even though they don't care or don't perform.
- Changes during the games are laughable and most of the times makes us worse.

It seems that being bald and fit does not make all the managers equally good at their job. We've tried, it didn't work, it's not the first time and it won't be the last.

 

[Smores]

And then start the whole Boom Bang Bust cycle again with a shiny new manager.

Just let persist and give him more time.. Sacking EtH won't solve anything.

Given it was Liverpool for who the boom bust cycle was pushed on here I reckon loads of them said the same thing for Rafa and Rodgers.

It's alright giving a manager his first season to find his feet and another thing to persist with long term underperformance.

 

[The Mitcher]

That's true - I think the criticism was levelled at Moyes rather than the players. Criticism towards the players was more that they were past it.

Some were, others were still developing.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Yeah, or having a long drawn out discussion about Ole and going on about cults, he’s gone now we need to move on.

I guess, if people stopped making false claims, there would be no need to discuss any of our past managers. But, when they keep getting brought up....

There's literally nothing to discuss other than who was the least shit. Because none were what would be classed as successful.

The elephant in the room though is that the hero worshipping of managers needs to stop. They come in, get a fair crack of the whip, if they're successful they stay, if they're not, they go. Simple.

 

[Shinjch]

So arrogant. What are you on about? Do tell? What do the supporters need to go through or is it that they just see plain as day what is in front of their eyes on the pitch?

The club needs a total overhaul. We aren't going to be competing for the top prizes with the current structure in place, or the current playing squad. The culture is all wrong and needs uprooting. It requires systematic and long-term planning to work towards being in a place to compete at the top table again. It will likely mean that United have a couple of seasons outside of European places, something I don't think that a lot of the supporter base will stomach.

 

[Yorkeontop]

https://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2...-analysis-the-definition-of-insanity#comments

A sobering read indeed. I wonder which teams do well with our tactics?

 

[The Mitcher]

Shaw wasn't even a LVG signing, Martial and Rashford were brought into the squad under his watch too.

He literally joined in his first season.

 

[Oranges038]

He literally joined in his first season.

He was all but signed before Van Gaal was confirmed.

 

[The Mitcher]

https://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2...-analysis-the-definition-of-insanity#comments

A sobering read indeed. I wonder which teams do well with our tactics?

It really makes sense of what, as a layman, my eyes can see but not explain. In the comments, that Keano quote is itself insane. Blame the players for obvious managerial errors because reasons.

 

[hobbers]

Two from Rashford, Sancho, Martial, Varane.

90% it's the first two.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

If the reports are true and he has lost 50% of the players, when does his position be come untenable ?
I am not fan of player power, they get paid a shit load of money, to play football just do it.

 

[The Irish Connection]

Injuries and crap signings have been huge in the way things have gone in my opinion.
The fact that Martial is still at the club and starting speaks volumes about our ownership.
I pray that Ratcliffe can shake things up for the better.

We need a proper right winger, at least one top midfielder, a right sided centre half and probably a right back and centre forward.
Get rid of the dead wood once and for all.

 

[NLunited]

Hopefully, Ten Hag now drops Rashford, Bruno, Martial, McT as they have been the constant in many many poor performances for number of years.

We always go back to the same old story, Rashford and Martial not trying, Bruno just all over the shop, McT ghosting.

We need to start playing players that will give their all to the team, we need to get rid of these players

Bruno is fine, he works hard and does everything for this team. McT has done well since he plays higher up. Rashford and Martial need benching and we need the defence to push higher up. So that we are more compact.

 

[Offside]

Sport/Football is meant to be an escape, I'll always enjoy watching the matches...you just need to be realistic and accept where the team/club is currently. Also every weekend if you look at the results most so called top teams are having life and death matches with last minute winners against so called smaller teams.

What I utterly hate is the constant misery surrounding the club, which makes following the club very tiresome imo.

I agree mostly.

 

[VP89]

Two from Rashford, Sancho, Martial, Varane.

90% it's the first two.

Jac tabolt is a known bullshit merchant anyway

 

[RedSky]

Fans deserve misery because they are stupid, impatient and unrealistic.
It’s too easy to blame the manager and get rid when we’ve seen this time and time again from these players.
If they can’t or won’t perform the way the manager is asking them to then they need shipping out and replacing with those who will.
Erik has made mistakes, of course he has but I’d argue he hasn’t been under performing, if anything he has over-performed relative to our situation when he took over and the absolute mountain of shite he’s had to deal with since.
We will never get anywhere meaningful if we don’t build something first. This club has been torn down to bare bones by the absolute incompetence of our hierarchy, and needs building up again - just like Arsenal, and the Arteta project is now starting to come good and look like bearing fruit, after a rocky start. I just think we have to ride out this rough patch and help Erik to build, but most want to rip it all up and start yet again - and if we do what we’ve always done we will get what we’ve always got - misery heaped upon failure and it will be deserved.

Couldn't every Club latch on to the Arteta example and claim that every Manager should be kept as they are just like Arteta and will eventually turn the club around and become brilliant. I'll remind you, Arteta joined much like Ange Postecoglou has at Tottenham and declared that he was playing a specific style of football and that would be it. He kept playing that way and bought players to fit that system and they gradually improved, it took time but they always played their way through the good and the bad. It's happening with Tottenham, they're doing precisely the same thing where they have a Manager with a very specific philosophy and they're sticking by it.

What is EtH's philosophy? How has his signings helped this?

 

[VP89]

Couldn't every Club latch on to the Arteta example and claim that every Manager should be kept as they are just like Arteta and will eventually turn the club around and become brilliant. I'll remind you, Arteta joined much like Ange Postecoglou has at Tottenham and declared that he was playing a specific style of football and that would be it. He kept playing that way and bought players to fit that system and they gradually improved, it took time but they always played their way through the good and the bad. It's happening with Tottenham, they're doing precisely the same thing where they have a Manager with a very specific philosophy and they're sticking by it.

What is EtH's philosophy? How has his signings helped this?

Arteta finished 8th back to back and in his second season specifically, no one including many arsenal fans could see what he was trying to do in season 2. There were also transfer mistakes made early on with Luiz and Wilian etc.

 

[Alex99]

It really makes sense of what, as a layman, my eyes can see but not explain. In the comments, that Keano quote is itself insane. Blame the players for obvious managerial errors because reasons.

I have no idea what your post history on these matters is, but the core of that piece is that Ten Hag has stuck to his preferred tactical set up regardless of the suitability of the players available, which is in complete contradiction to what vast swathes of this forum say about Ten Hag. He is repeatedly criticised for abandoning his principles in favour of "Ole-ball" and there's a near constant barrage of posts about how it shouldn't matter what players we have available because a good manager makes it work.

There may be some merit to the tactical analysis, but even in that piece there are massive leaps made to defend the players in order to criticise the manager.

Rashford didn’t press or track back well against Newcastle but Rashford has never done those things.

Pressing and tracking back aren't skills that Rashford isn't good at, they're just markers of basic effort.

It's hard to take the rest of it seriously as a piece of tactical analysis when it can acknowledge that players are simply ignoring instructions but not extend that to acknowledge why the tactics might be failing.

 

[RedSky]

Arteta finished 8th back to back and in his second season specifically, no one including many arsenal fans could see what he was trying to do in season 2. There were also transfer mistakes made early on with Luiz and Wilian etc.

There were plenty of Arsenal fans that could see it because they'd go on runs of unbeaten form and then they'd hit a slump of form. Then back to being good again. It was the consistency that they couldn't get and every time they would hit a patch of inconsistent form the usual Gunners would moan. You can ask Arsenal fans to verify this.

Luiz was brought in as a stop gap very much like we've done with Evans. Would you deem Evans a mistake or simply plugging a hole? The only real transfer mistake they made was Pepe, I have no idea if that was an Arteta signing or not though, can't remember but seem to recall it was around the start of his time at the club.

 

[VP89]

There were plenty of Arsenal fans that could see it because they'd go on runs of unbeaten form and then they'd hit a slump of form. Then back to being good again. It was the consistency that they couldn't get and every time they would hit a patch of inconsistent form the usual Gunners would moan. You can ask Arsenal fans to verify this.

Luiz was brought in as a stop gap very much like we've done with Evans. Would you deem Evans a mistake or simply plugging a hole? The only real transfer mistake they made was Pepe, I have no idea if that was an Arteta signing or not though, can't remember but seem to recall it was around the start of his time at the club.

I disagree, most arsenal fans were very sick and tired of what they were seeing and thought it was no improvement if not a step back from Emery.

They had 61 points that year winning only 18 of their 38 games. In season 3 it got better in style but even still he finished 5th with 69 points.

No manager gets that freedom at United.
Also, I like Evans. Think he's performed well for us and was free.

 

[MO_Football92]

Couldn't every Club latch on to the Arteta example and claim that every Manager should be kept as they are just like Arteta and will eventually turn the club around and become brilliant. I'll remind you, Arteta joined much like Ange Postecoglou has at Tottenham and declared that he was playing a specific style of football and that would be it. He kept playing that way and bought players to fit that system and they gradually improved, it took time but they always played their way through the good and the bad. It's happening with Tottenham, they're doing precisely the same thing where they have a Manager with a very specific philosophy and they're sticking by it.

What is EtH's philosophy? How has his signings helped this?

This is not so accurate. I recall early in 21/22, Artetas third season; many of our fans were questioning what he was implementing and the lack of identity.

It wasn't until there was clear balance in the team that we begun to see some consistency. This idea that Arteta instantly put in place the playing style is false. He gave the team some positional play principles on movement off the ball and timing within certain phases; but we weren't a cohesive team.

 

[RedSky]

This is not so accurate. I recall early in 21/22, Artetas third season; many of our fans were questioning what he was implementing and the lack of identity.

It wasn't until there was clear balance in the team that we begun to see some consistency. This idea that Arteta instantly put in place the playing style is false. He gave the team some positional play principles on movement off the ball and timing within certain phases; but we weren't a cohesive team.

Isn't that the point i'm making though. He didn't wave the wand and immediately turn you into what you are now, but he did start addressing the problems immediately, started to give you an identity and built with his signings towards that. It took time, but it worked.

The point i'm making, is that if you look at the work EtH has currently done here at United, could you say the same? What's the style and hows his tranfers helped implement it?