Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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bosnian_red said:
As I said - they'll be fine, yes. But it's a big distraction all the same. They feel the mood, the atmosphere, the culture. Focus can drop more easily.

The Glazers, the culture, the mood, the lack of proper structure, the facilities being ignored, the scandals within the squad, the animosity within the staff with the higher ups... Those are the big issues at the club. Those are the issues that make everything else incredibly fragile. So when shit does go wrong on the pitch (inevitably happens at one point), if the rest is a shit show, then it's much harder to deal with it, things fall apart more quickly.

It isn't player quality or ten hags tactics as the reason why we are getting outplayed by teams like Copenhagen. It might not be ideal, but our squad is at worst still a top 7 PL team level which should still be comfortable against teams like Galatasaray and Copenhagen. They aren't playing like that. Ten Hag is a good coach, might have some issues with his system but he's not coaching with amateur tactics dragging the team down multiple levels. They aren't able to perform as a whole because of all the other issues just weighing them down, making it fragile so we can't pull together when something goes against us.
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I'm sorry, I just don't buy that.

If the players are all behind the manager, believe in what he is doing, the tactics are right, and they player are good enough, we should be seeing results and performances regardless of what is happening with the takeover.

Remember, The Glazers announced they were seeking "strategic alternatives" 12 months ago. We beat City, Barcelona and won a cup in the months following and before the 1-1 draw to Palace, people were saying we were in the title race.

The rot started with the 7-0 loss to Liverpool in early March. Add to that getting outplayed V Newcastle away, capitulating v Sevilla, losing the FA Cup final and what seems to have been a badly organized pre-season tour.

This season has been a shit show in part because of injuries, but even when we had our team fully fit in the first games of the season, we looked wide open in the way we were playing - think back to Spurs, Wolves and the start of the Forest game.

The Ten Hag system wasn't working, and he has been chopping and changing since, hoping that something would work - he has hardly played the same midfield three twice. He has signed a keeper that has been making howlers, when, by all accounts, the players believe DDG was treated badly. Freezing out Sancho has probably split the dressing room too. His new signings, like Mount, are not getting the game time they would have expected because they are not a fit in the system he is now playing. His best player, Bruno, is sacrificed to fit McTominay into the 10. He doesn't trust his 90mil signing Antony. He bought an 80mil striker that hasn't scored in the Prem and is not getting service.

Now, we are seeing him making bizarre decisions like benching Varane and not starting Reglion V City for "tactical reasons". Going back to McTominay just because he scores a couple of goals. Subbing off your only DM, Amrabat, v City. These are the decisions that have lost the players.

These are the reasons we are seeing the dross performances, not the ownership, not the takeover.
 
Given time I'm sure he can make us relevant. We need to rebuild for sure. Lots of players needs replacing. But he definitely needs folks above him to recruit. We are in dire need of a Director of Football.
 
FootyGirl88 said:
I’m inclined to agree :lol:
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He's spent bucket loads and brought in many playersall across the field. If he still hasn't got the players he needs to play the football he wants to play then it's completely on him.
 
1988 said:
Given time I'm sure he can make us relevant. We need to rebuild for sure. Lots of players needs replacing. But he definitely needs folks above him to recruit. We are in dire need of a Director of Football.
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We are relevant. In the meme world
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
Can you provide 3 examples from this season where ETH has excelled at coaching? What makes him a good coach? Introducing Eriksen won us the CL game.
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Good coach might not be good enough coach for what we need, but it doesn't mean he's a bad coach. This season has been shit. He did well as a coach last season, on multiple occasions, making us perform at a 3rd-6th level despite all the issues we had with congestion and squad gaps. He did excellently as a coach at Ajax, without a doubt.
 
Cheimoon said:
I mean, it's obviously true: if you're 3-0 up, you can start bringing on players that need minutes or experiment with ideas. Any club would do that, against any other club. But yeah, it's pretty disrespectful to say it out loud and also a great way to fire up another team for your next encounter.
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What makes it worse is we had a reputation for taking slights personally under Fergie and it was a huge part of the siege mentality he fostered/engendered. These days there’s such flippancy from opposing managers, pre and post game. It’s a really sorry state of affairs. We’re Aslan being paraded, shorn of our once magnificent mane, or something.
 
Results for me are not even the worry it’s the style of play. If we were struggling to win games but attacking teams with a purpose and plan it would be one thing but we’re just absolutely awful. It should be the priority for this club and manager to play attractive attacking football there should be no compromise It should be the bare minimum requirement

Brighton play some of the best football in the league. They sell a star player every 6 months and their regular starters are Welbeck, Milner and Lallana with Steele in goal I’m not having this bollocks that we can’t play football we need to get back to basics because we can’t even pass and move
 
Getting fed up with "the manager has lost the players" at this club. Why do we keep getting such mentally weak players? Seeing these reports of them not happy with training intensity, not having enough break over pre-season, etc tells me enough. Ten Hags recruitment and on-field decisions have been very questionable, along with no clear style of play, but I'm getting sick of these entitled players. You're getting paid a fortune, pack it in, fans are paying your wages now behave and play football for them.
 
I think McT has to upper his game as the player behind our CF. If he can score more, it could help level up our overall game performance.
I am looking forward to being bashed here.
 
Fortitude said:
Imagine being comfortable airing that view knowing we play them soon.
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I've never seen anything from Shaw, Rashford, Maguire, AWB, Martial, and whoever else to suggest that something like this would motivate them at all. If anything they'll play even worse, knowing further embarassing losses will result in a new manager and a clean slate.

They've all been routinely embarrassed both individually and collectively several times and none of them appear to have changed anything about the way they play or the intensity at which they do it.

This is another reason losing Martinez for so long is such a blow, as there is no one else on the team as intense, disciplined and skilled as he is.
 
Cheimoon said:
I mean, it's obviously true: if you're 3-0 up, you can start bringing on players that need minutes or experiment with ideas. Any club would do that, against any other club. But yeah, it's pretty disrespectful to say it out loud and also a great way to fire up another team for your next encounter.
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I think the only thing the majority of United players get fired up for is a holiday party/trip and payday.
 
city-puma said:
I think McT has to upper his game as the player behind our CF. If he can score more, it could help level up our overall game performance.
I am looking forward to being bashed here.
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In those same games he scored he gave away multiple penalties he’s crap
 
Regarding him saying he can’t play like his Ajax team because the squads different… did guardiola change the way he’s always played when he first took over at city? Or klopp at Liverpool. Yes they wouldn’t have been able to implement it successfully because of the players but they’d of still tried to play that way. Last season we seen glimpses of ETH football. We played some great stuff on the floor.
 
Cheimoon said:
I mean, it's obviously true: if you're 3-0 up, you can start bringing on players that need minutes or experiment with ideas. Any club would do that, against any other club. But yeah, it's pretty disrespectful to say it out loud and also a great way to fire up another team for your next encounter.
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The only way we're going to be "fired up" for our next match against Newcastle in a month is if we have a new manager. It's an away match at a top-4 rival. Under ETH, we'd be lucky to escape with the same scoreline.
 
mu4c_20le said:
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Whatever valid criticisms there are of how he has handled this season, and the players he's bought, I really wish he had gotten a decent go of the start of this season. So many injuries, everything outside of his control that could go wrong going wrong, it's just been a complete nightmare. Sometimes you just need a bit of luck to get through rough patches, no matter how good you're supposed to be, I really hope he can turn it around and get something good going for the second half of the season, with hopefully a few good signings in January.
 
Conor said:
Whatever valid criticisms there are of how he has handled this season, and the players he's bought, I really wish he had gotten a decent go of the start of this season. So many injuries, everything outside of his control that could go wrong going wrong, it's just been a complete nightmare. Sometimes you just need a bit of luck to get through rough patches, no matter how good you're supposed to be, I really hope he can turn it around and get something good gong for the second half of the season, with hopefully a few good signings in January.
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Agreed.
 
Conor said:
Whatever valid criticisms there are of how he has handled this season, and the players he's bought, I really wish he had gotten a decent go of the start of this season. So many injuries, everything outside of his control that could go wrong going wrong, it's just been a complete nightmare. Sometimes you just need a bit of luck to get through rough patches, no matter how good you're supposed to be, I really hope he can turn it around and get something good going for the second half of the season, with hopefully a few good signings in January.
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Agree.

I see Mathinez as being an absolute key to this side. He was never fully fit, now he is out of months. Shaw could have played that role, but he is out too.

Yes, we need some luck, though some would say we got it with the Wolves Onana pen not given, McT's late goals and Onana's pen save. What we need, is a resolute performance on Saturday. We need to see a reaction from the players.
 
bosnian_red said:
Good coach might not be good enough coach for what we need, but it doesn't mean he's a bad coach. This season has been shit. He did well as a coach last season, on multiple occasions, making us perform at a 3rd-6th level despite all the issues we had with congestion and squad gaps. He did excellently as a coach at Ajax, without a doubt.
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The step from Ajax to United is massive, just ask Donny or Antony. ETH does not seem to grasp the physicality of the PL.

ETH is a decent coach but not top 5 or 10 in the world. We played poorly when we had a fit back four in August.

Most likely our poor form will persist and ETH will be replaced in Dec or Jan by Flick or Potter who will have to deal with the terrible signings made by Ole and ETH.
 
Its crazy how both Eth and Ole wanted the players to be more robust, Ole spoke about wanting the team to be phsically robust, to be fitter and to run harder and stronger than the opposition. To date, both managers have failed miserably at achieving this. With Eth on record claiming the players are not doing what I wanted them to do.
Im in two minds whether Eth should stay or not. The players have a lot to answer for, they're a pretty rotten bunch. But Eth has made mistakes, with proper backing/funding though, he'd be allowed a chance to rectify the mistakes.
 
I am starting to believe that ETH did not really do much at Ajax, either!

Ajax had a set way to play, from the academies up, Overmars and Van der Sar brought in good players, and ETH was just like a sergeant in the army, barking simple commands without understanding anything about the big picture.

That's the reason he tried so hard to get the same players here... perhaps he felt that the players understood the system better than he did. That's the only reasonable explanation I can think of for spending so much on Antony. ETH thought that if Overmars wanted Antony, it means that Antony is good. How can a manager train Antony for years and still have no clue that Antony is not good enough for United? It makes no sense. The only explanation is that ETH cannot even understand how good or bad his own players are, that's why he was playing Wout every game last year.

This also explains why he looks so lost now...

It wasn't "his system", it was "the Ajax system". Now he is trying "the United system", and nobody knows what this is.
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
The step from Ajax to United is massive, just ask Donny or Antony. ETH does not seem to grasp the physicality of the PL.

ETH is a decent coach but not top 5 or 10 in the world. We played poorly when we had a fit back four in August.

Most likely our poor form will persist and ETH will be replaced in Dec or Jan by Flick or Potter who will have to deal with the terrible signings made by Ole and ETH.
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He's definitely aware of the physicality and has often spoke about players needing to be stronger and more physical. But so did Ole
 
I was going to reply to a message on this post and then decided to see the poster's activity over the last 24 hours because I had been seeing that name extremely frequently and goodness me there are hundreds of posts! This is way too much for anyone's sanity. ETH in or out, please take breaks, everyone. It's going to get uglier over the next few weeks.
 
frostbite said:
I am starting to believe that ETH did not really do much at Ajax, either!

Ajax had a set way to play, from the academies up, Overmars and Van der Sar brought in good players, and ETH was just like a sergeant in the army, barking simple commands without understanding anything about the big picture.

That's the reason he tried so hard to get the same players here... perhaps he felt that the players understood the system better than he did. That's the only reasonable explanation I can think of for spending so much on Antony. ETH thought that if Overmars wanted Antony, it means that Antony is good. How can a manager train Antony for years and still have no clue that Antony is not good enough for United? It makes no sense. The only explanation is that ETH cannot even understand how good or bad his own players are, that's why he was playing Wout every game last year.

This also explains why he looks so lost now...

It wasn't "his system", it was "the Ajax system". Now he is trying "the United system", and nobody knows what this is.
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He's probably a good coach but the job looks too big for him. Wouldn't be the first to excel at Ajax but fail elsewhere. Players need to take their share of the blame for sure but it appears people are forgetting that man management is literally manager's job. Just saying "players have downed tools" is extremely simplistic. He's not coaching robots, it doesn't mean they are doing it on purpose. You can't just bring anyone in to yell at the players. If you're aren't a good motivator and have no charisma, you're probably not going to do well long term.
 
frostbite said:
I am starting to believe that ETH did not really do much at Ajax, either!

Ajax had a set way to play, from the academies up, Overmars and Van der Sar brought in good players, and ETH was just like a sergeant in the army, barking simple commands without understanding anything about the big picture.

That's the reason he tried so hard to get the same players here... perhaps he felt that the players understood the system better than he did. That's the only reasonable explanation I can think of for spending so much on Antony. ETH thought that if Overmars wanted Antony, it means that Antony is good. How can a manager train Antony for years and still have no clue that Antony is not good enough for United? It makes no sense. The only explanation is that ETH cannot even understand how good or bad his own players are, that's why he was playing Wout every game last year.

This also explains why he looks so lost now...

It wasn't "his system", it was "the Ajax system". Now he is trying "the United system", and nobody knows what this is.
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This is a new low in terms of shitting on him. He was just a mannequin overseeing a seamless and self-sustainable process at Ajax even though they have now gone to shit and he was credited all around for bringing Ajax back in Europe. Ffs.
 
Bastian said:
This is a new low in terms of shitting on him. He was just a mannequin overseeing a seamless and self-sustainable process at Ajax even though they have now gone to shit and he was credited all around for bringing Ajax back in Europe. Ffs.
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That's not what I said. A sergeant is very important in the right system, he is not "just a mannequin". He is just not good enough outside that particular system. It just seems to me that the main man was Overmars (and VDS).
 
The word "fraud" is thrown around so much, it's disgusting.
Moyes the fraud, LVG the fraud, Jose the fraud, Ralf the fraud, ETH the fraud.

And somehow these frauds are successful outside of Manchester United.

Is it possible that maybe, just maybe, it's not as simple as calling every coach we've had "fraud"?
 
frostbite said:
I am starting to believe that ETH did not really do much at Ajax, either!

Ajax had a set way to play, from the academies up, Overmars and Van der Sar brought in good players, and ETH was just like a sergeant in the army, barking simple commands without understanding anything about the big picture.

That's the reason he tried so hard to get the same players here... perhaps he felt that the players understood the system better than he did. That's the only reasonable explanation I can think of for spending so much on Antony. ETH thought that if Overmars wanted Antony, it means that Antony is good. How can a manager train Antony for years and still have no clue that Antony is not good enough for United? It makes no sense. The only explanation is that ETH cannot even understand how good or bad his own players are, that's why he was playing Wout every game last year.

This also explains why he looks so lost now...

It wasn't "his system", it was "the Ajax system". Now he is trying "the United system", and nobody knows what this is.
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I’m going to be transparent and say from the off I think this is a really rubbish opinion.

However if you believe this to be the case then what you’re saying is Ten Hag has worked in various roles for 21 years and learnt very little… he has had the following career pathway:
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/erik-ten-hag/profil/trainer/3816

I honestly think your opinion here is one of the worst I’ve seen about Ten Hag in the last few days. It goes way beyond reasonable criticism and implies he’s essentially got no clue.
 
And to add to that how would such a competent well ran sporting operation hire such a poor manager in that context?

Doesnt make any sense and I think you’re being completely unfair.
 
Fortitude said:
Imagine being comfortable airing that view knowing we play them soon.
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The players will be insulted and go out there with something to prove, just like they did after losing to City... Ah shit...
 
Cheimoon said:
I mean, it's obviously true: if you're 3-0 up, you can start bringing on players that need minutes or experiment with ideas. Any club would do that, against any other club. But yeah, it's pretty disrespectful to say it out loud and also a great way to fire up another team for your next encounter.
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Our lads couldn't get fired up for a CL final against Liverpool. We're the biggest ***** in the football world.
 
Bastian said:
This is a new low in terms of shitting on him. He was just a mannequin overseeing a seamless and self-sustainable process at Ajax even though they have now gone to shit and he was credited all around for bringing Ajax back in Europe. Ffs.
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Yeah, posters would do well to remember the last time Ajax won the league prior to ten Hag. They'd also do well to remember the last time Ajax made the CL knockouts prior to ten Hag. Minutes way, even, from a CL final.

Answers on a postcard on that one.
 
Ajax's last champions league season before joining us should be enough to show you that Ten Hag did plenty with that team. The issues we are experiencing are issues every Ajax fan warned us about. He's bad at recruiting (check), he has favorites (check), he will bring in usesless players he managed before (check), he can be excessively and counter productively strict (check).

How on earth our professional management team weren't aware of these issues, when Ajax fans were posting on here about it, is quite the indictment of their performance and due dilligence in the recruitment process.
 
It's a payoff. There is no perfect coach in the world.
People call Pep a perfect coach, but he has always been showered in money and world class players. And still struggled for years at City in CL, before achieving "the ultimate success".

ETH has downsides, any coach has downsides. What matters is what he brings to the team.
At this point it's going south, everything is bad, but there are million reasons behind it. Calling him fraud and trying to downplay his achievements in Ajax is not just lazy criticism - it's simply stupid and hateful, something I'd expect to read on facebook.

I'd expect ETH to leave and be massively successful elsewhere, and the next coach under Glazers regime to be labeled "fraud" by redcafe posters.
And even then some people will refuse to be rational or logical.

At this point I don't see him turning this around anyway. Players look like they don't give a shit. And everything that happened in the last 5 years suggest that players are given way too much power, possibly way too good contracts. And it makes sense. United can't attract them with promise they'll be champions or they'll succeed in Champions league. But we can attract them with money and good contracts. Overpaying for players who just don't care at some point.

Maybe ETH will have to just go for the low block and counterattacking football and get some results with it. I don't know.

Nothing looks bright and the only good thing on the horizon is a possible takeover. New structure, new DNA.

And once again - we've had good managers since Fergie. Some were better than the others. But all of them were royally fecked. If you don't see it I don't know what to tell you. The next guy will come, we'll get good results between December and April, then we'll struggle until June, people will say "it's fatigue, after the summer preparations we'll be great", then we won't be etc. etc. etc. Keep telling yourself that every manager in existence is fraud if it makes you feel better.
It's obvious that even with all mistakes ETH made, there are many more things wrong at Manchester United.
 
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Hoof the ball said:
Yeah, posters would do well to remember the last time Ajax won the league prior to ten Hag. They'd also do well to remember the last time Ajax made the CL knockouts prior to ten Hag. Minutes way, even, from a CL final.

Answers on a postcard on that one.
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Frank de Boer with a better team
 
Bo_devil said:
He's definitely aware of the physicality and has often spoke about players needing to be stronger and more physical. But so did Ole
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And then he signs Antony and Mount and Eriksen and Malacia. We couldn't deal with Newcastle's physicality.
 
frostbite said:
That's not what I said. A sergeant is very important in the right system, he is not "just a mannequin". He is just not good enough outside that particular system. It just seems to me that the main man was Overmars (and VDS).
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Potato potato. By that logic they only needed an overseer prior and subsequent to ETH. Of course Overmars and VDS did good jobs in a structure that functioned well. But they did not manage the team or coach it. I just think your post is an extreme illustration of what many are now doing, surmising that ETH is in fact a shite manager and doesn't have a clue. Humour me for a minute, who would you want in (I assume immediately)?
 
We want to press, then go direct, because we have the players who are very good at it."
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This pretty much sums Bruno's and our shite style of football, and he is completely fine with it. Actually, he is the one who is forcing it.

Yeah, he is definitely another stubborn manager, it's pretty obvious why he won't last long(if we needed any proof apart from watching our games).
 
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