Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Berbaclass said:
Agree. It's time to do something different rather than repeat previous mistakes once more.
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What do you propose? Give him 6 or 7 year contract today and let him outstay these players. Give him £1b over the 7 years etc? Solid plan. The guy looks absolutely lost and has only success in Eredivisie on his CV, but let's back him like he's the best in the world.

We're actually just doing the same thing by letting another manager spend loads of money, drive us into the ground, and then everyone will say "actually, he needs to go". By that time the damage is done. Doing something different would be acting like the other big clubs and replacing him as soon as its obvious he's not up to it (which is now, to many of us). Show that we won't accept this from anybody. And yes, in time, phase out players whilst trying to find a manager that has a clue.
 
pocco said:
What do you propose? Give him 6 or 7 year contract today and let him outstay these players. Give him £1b over the 7 years etc? Solid plan. The guy looks absolutely lost and has only success in Eredivisie on his CV, but let's back him like he's the best in the world.

We're actually just doing the same thing by letting another manager spend loads of money, drive us into the ground, and then everyone will say "actually, he needs to go". By that time the damage is done. Doing something different would be acting like the other big clubs and replacing him as soon as its obvious he's not up to it (which is now, to many of us). Show that we won't accept this from anybody. And yes, in time, phase out players whilst trying to find a manager that has a clue.
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The concept of keeping a person clearly incapable of doing the job and giving him long term job security because we've already tried the sacking with his predecessors... let me just say I'd definitely want to land a job like that in my life.
 
pocco said:
What do you propose? Give him 6 or 7 year contract today and let him outstay these players. Give him £1b over the 7 years etc? Solid plan. The guy looks absolutely lost and has only success in Eredivisie on his CV, but let's back him like he's the best in the world.

We're actually just doing the same thing by letting another manager spend loads of money, drive us into the ground, and then everyone will say "actually, he needs to go". By that time the damage is done. Doing something different would be acting like the other big clubs and replacing him. Show that we won't accept this from anybody. And yes, in time, phase out players whilst trying to find a manager that has a clue.
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We will be doing the same thing again if the power gets given to the players once again and they get another manager sacked. Ten Hag isn't blameless of course but I don't believe for a second he is the biggest problem.

It's the people who decided to give Rashford a massive new deal, same with Bruno. We've seen a bit of a U-turn in the stories surrounding renewals of Lindelof and AWB in the last few days, which I think is a good thing. The club have been so dumb when it comes to rewarding downright mediocrity.

Personally, I want to wait for Ratcliffe to make changes to the sporting structure and then see what happens. If he's still underperforming then fair enough, time for a change.
 
Sarni said:
The concept of keeping a person clearly incapable of doing the job and giving him long term job security because we've already tried the sacking with his predecessors... let me just say I'd definitely want to land a job like that in my life.
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Was he clearly incapable of doing the job when we finished 3rd and won a trophy last season? Or is it because he has now tried to sell a few of them and replace some of them, and they have turned on him.
 
pocco said:
I think it's more likely he realised you can't play how Ajax did and compete in the PL. There is a huge gulf between the two leagues.
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Yet Guardiola can? He plays a similar way to what ETH prefers. You can play how you want to play if you sign the right players.
 
I'm curious to see what would happen if you tell the players the manager is staying.

I laughed when I heard G.Nev talking about Martial had 1 goal all season, went on load to Seville and scored 1 goal...2 seasons later he is still at United with only a 20 year old for competition.

Sancho is 100% hoping for another clean slate with a new manager.

That cycle/culture needs to end.
 
RuudTom83 said:
I'm curious to see what would happen if you tell the players the manager is staying.

I laughed when I heard G.Nev talking about Martial had 1 goal all season, went on load to Seville and scored 1 goal...2 seasons later he is still at United with only a 20 year old for competition.

Sancho is 100% hoping for another clean slate with a new manager.

That cycle/culture needs to end.
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I'd be curious if people would actually support Sancho should he be brought back under a different manager after he's refusing to play pretty much.
 
How people are totally discounting the impact of the lack of certainty around the takeover is a bit mind-boggling to me. Has anyone not worked in a place where there is so much uncertainty at the top that a general sense of toxicity starts seeping into day-to-day work? An organization that is going through a takeover or merger is a good example. A lot of people just stop putting in full effort. That's one of the reasons why mergers/acquisitions are pushed through quickly once they are announced. That's also why I think that the Glazers dragging this sale process has been an absolutely heinous crime against the club. It is absolutely unreasonable for the manager, staff, and players to drown out all of these uncertainties and give their 100% all the time. Actually, I am a bit surprised at how we managed to keep to the task last season - it's a minor miracle that we finished 3rd.

I don't recall another situation like this at a top club, to be honest. For comparison, Liverpool's sale to FSG was completed in pretty much 6-7 months and the performances during that time under Hodgson were extremely bad. It's pretty much unprecedented in terms of the duration it has taken. And I don't think changing managers will be any more than a band-aid right now. There will be a slight uptick in effort and maybe performances for a brief while but unless there is clarity from above, the situation will devolve as quickly as it has right now.
 
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Erik has seriously set us back by 3-4 years because of the players he signed. Who would take these players for the price paid? Antony, Casemiro, Onana, Hoijund and Malaccia? The answer is nobody due fee, wages and age.
 
r0663664 said:
Erik has seriously set us back by 3-4 years because of the players he signed. Who would take these players for the price paid? Antony, Casemiro, Onana, Hoijund and Malaccia? The answer is nobody due fee, wages and age.
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I'm sure we'd find buyers for Hojlund, Malacia and Martinez.

But yeh the rest are damaged goods.
 
I am not sure if ten Hag is good enough or not but I am pretty damn sure that 70% of our players are definitely not good enough and massively overpaid.

We should forget about titles and top 4 for the next 3 seasons. Get rid of as many players as possible and not make any panic signings again because this one 30+ years old star player we will sign for 4 years on 300k / week might be the one to help us getting 4th place.
Instead make up a 3-yrs plan and only get players in for the right money and adequate salary. Follow this plan no matter for 3 years.
Some of our superstars might come to the conclusion that things are serious this time and instead of monaing and leaking get on board with this approach and to exactly what is asked from them without more drama.
Give the youth and fringe players the same chances as anybody else. Quality and the right mentality will lead to only the right ones staying.

Unfortunately we are driven by short term reactions so there is no chance we will actually do something like this.
 
Berbaclass said:
I'd be curious if people would actually support Sancho should he be brought back under a different manager after he's refusing to play pretty much.
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Sancho kills managers for fun. I won't be duped by his ridiculous efforts in trying to play well, after ETH becomes part of his 'collection'.
 
Berbaclass said:
Personally, I want to wait for Ratcliffe to make changes to the sporting structure and then see what happens. If he's still underperforming then fair enough, time for a change.
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Has Ratcliffe actually signed on the dotted yet or is he still awaiting approval from the Glazers for whatever his bid was? Because until we hear an official announcement from United that Ratcliffe is now overseeing the footballing side, I won't be holding my breath about any changes.
 
VP89 said:
I'm not ETH out but I'm not going to get annoyed by the other view anymore because his form is in sackable territory.
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I know it was hard for you to admit this. Took you long enough and I see you’re still teetering even now - but don’t worry you’re on the right side of history now
 
Moriarty said:
Has Ratcliffe actually signed on the dotted yet or is he still awaiting approval from the Glazers for whatever his bid was? Because until we hear an official announcement from United that Ratcliffe is now overseeing the footballing side, I won't be holding my breath about any changes.
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Time will tell
 
Berbaclass said:
Was he clearly incapable of doing the job when we finished 3rd and won a trophy last season? Or is it because he has now tried to sell a few of them and replace some of them, and they have turned on him.
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He is clearly incapable of doing the job right now and there’s only so much benefit of doubt finishing 3rd and having a lucky draw in the least important competition we are in can give you. He has built on none of our strengths from last season and exacerbated all our weaknesses. I don’t see any foundations that would have been laid last season that are going to serve a long term purpose.

If he’s not capable of motivating and improving the players he has inherited, but also incapable of getting the best out of players he specifically wanted to sign, then what is he really going to do?
 
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Sarni said:
He is clearly incapable of doing the job right now and there’s only so much benefit of doubt finishing 3rd and having a lucky draw in the least important competition we are in can give you. He has built on none of our strengths from last season and exacerbated all our weaknesses.
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Could that not be down to our current injury crisis. At our best last season we had a settled back 6 of De Gea, AWB, Varane, Martinez, Shaw and Casemiro. I’d be shocked if we played the same XI more than once this season.
 
TsuWave said:
I know it was hard for you to admit this. Took you long enough and I see you’re still teetering even now - but don’t worry you’re on the right side of history now
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I didn't think I had to 'admit' sackable form, its quite objective that even staunch defenders cannot ignore.

I don't think I'll be a "ten hag out" guy unless he really continues a feckup form up to Christmas. I don't see myself changing my view before then if at all.
 
Berbaclass said:
Personally, I want to wait for Ratcliffe to make changes to the sporting structure and then see what happens. If he's still underperforming then fair enough, time for a change.
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Brother, a DoF, Brailsford and them aren’t going to set-up the training cones or coach players routines on/off the ball. Mad scientist line-ups, questionable subs - Mctominay as #10, not being compact off the ball, or even thinking a midfield of Bruno, Mount and Casemiro can work in the prem - these aren’t sporting structure issues.

This team has so many issues that us as spectators are able to identify but the guy that gets paid millions to be the manager can’t? Guy watched Mctominay bail him out in injury time against Brentford and his big brain idea was to recreate that experiment on a 90 minute scale. Does this sound like someone that has a clue or just throwing random shit at the wall and Inshallah?
 
Berbaclass said:
Could that not be down to our current injury crisis. At our best last season we had a settled back 6 of De Gea, AWB, Varane, Martinez, Shaw and Casemiro. I’d be shocked if we played the same XI more than once this season.
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Not really. All teams face injuries and it’s manager’s job to handle them. If he can’t have the team perform at a decent level because there are 2-3 first team players out then he has serious issues as he will always have injuries.

Our attack is actually a far bigger issue than the defense anyway and the only notable injury in our front 6 is Casemiro, we have actually had very good injury luck with our offensive players this year and it has amounted to nothing.
 
Sarni said:
Not really. All teams face injuries and it’s manager’s job to handle them. If he can’t have the team perform at a decent level because there are 2-3 first team players out then he has serious issues as he will always have injuries.

Our attack is actually a far bigger issue than the defense anyway and the only notable injury in our front 6 is Casemiro, we have actually had very good injury luck with our offensive players this year and it has amounted to nothing.
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We have our entire back 4 out and defensive midfield. Not short term either
 
GaryLifo said:
I think he probably should just resign, refuse any pay off and therefore any obligation to remain silent, and then speak his mind about the whole shit show that is the former big football club, Manchester United.
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Do that and not a single club might come near him ever.
spiriticon said:
There's a sadistic part of me that just wants to hang on to ETH forever to piss these players off royally. We'll probably spiral close to relegation but you know what, I am really starting to think that relegation is the restart that we need.
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Tbh same here. Of course only if the reports on downing tools are true. Imo atm it's just a problem of confidence after being crap and losing too many games. Maybe some might especially the ones who he tried to sell but not all of them.
 
Berbaclass said:
We have our entire back 4 out and defensive midfield. Not short term either
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Varane and Dalot are both healthy, have been for a while. Casemiro has only been out for a couple of games and was terrible prior to that.

We also looked equally inept at the start of season when Martinez was still in the team and Casemiro was playing, with only Shaw out.
 
Sarni said:
Varane and Dalot are both healthy, have been for a while. Casemiro has only been out for a couple of games and was terrible prior to that.

We also looked equally inept at the start of season when Martinez was still in the team and Casemiro was playing, with only Shaw out.
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The starting back four including Shaw started the first two games where we got dominated by Wolves and Spurs.
 
Berbaclass said:
We will be doing the same thing again if the power gets given to the players once again and they get another manager sacked. Ten Hag isn't blameless of course but I don't believe for a second he is the biggest problem.

It's the people who decided to give Rashford a massive new deal, same with Bruno. We've seen a bit of a U-turn in the stories surrounding renewals of Lindelof and AWB in the last few days, which I think is a good thing. The club have been so dumb when it comes to rewarding downright mediocrity.

Personally, I want to wait for Ratcliffe to make changes to the sporting structure and then see what happens. If he's still underperforming then fair enough, time for a change.
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Any changes to the sporting structure will take at least 2 or 3 years to bear fruit. Sacking the guy that gave Rashford his contact won't change anything straight away as Rashford will be around for a long time. It's just not a feasible plan at all. Not with the amount of money we spend.
 
Explain this:

EVERYBODY who watches United agrees that Bruno should never be played out of position, on the wing and we need two defensive midfielders

Why is Ten Hag oblivious of this? Why does he stubbornly keep doing the same shit? He is not dumber than average fan, he is stubborn to an extreme detriment
 
Berbaclass said:
I'd be curious if people would actually support Sancho should he be brought back under a different manager after he's refusing to play pretty much.
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He needs offloading on a permanent deal in January, regardless of whether ETH is still here or not.

He seen his arse and he's been sat around for two months playing on his Playstation. If he's allowed back in the fold it'll show the rest of them they can say and do whatever they please with no fear of repercussions.

Knowing the absolute incompetency of those running the club though, I'm not holding my breath.
 
Sarni said:
Varane and Dalot are both healthy, have been for a while. Casemiro has only been out for a couple of games and was terrible prior to that.

We also looked equally inept at the start of season when Martinez was still in the team and Casemiro was playing, with only Shaw out.
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Dalot is second choice. Martinez was still injured. Casemiro in and out of the team.

The point is that compared to last season there has been an extreme amount of changes from game to game, upsetting any rhythm we might have built up. We are also playing Maguire who clearly the manager wanted to get rid of.
 
pocco said:
Any changes to the sporting structure will take at least 2 or 3 years to bear fruit. Sacking the guy that gave Rashford his contact won't change anything straight away as Rashford will be around for a long time. It's just not a feasible plan at all. Not with the amount of money we spend.
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That's fine.
 
Darlington Padgett said:
The starting back four including Shaw started the first two games where we got dominated by Wolves and Spurs.
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We were the much better side against spurs first half - Bruno missed an absolute sitter and we were denied a clear penalty. People need to stop pretending what we’re seeing now is the same as it was with all our best defenders fit. We had issues defensively in transition but we’re way worse now.
 
Darlington Padgett said:
The starting back four including Shaw started the first two games where we got dominated by Wolves and Spurs.
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Completely forgot about that.

I suspect we would be just slightly less inept with our whole team available because there’s just no system.
 
RuudTom83 said:
I'm curious to see what would happen if you tell the players the manager is staying.

I laughed when I heard G.Nev talking about Martial had 1 goal all season, went on load to Seville and scored 1 goal...2 seasons later he is still at United with only a 20 year old for competition.

Sancho is 100% hoping for another clean slate with a new manager.

That cycle/culture needs to end.
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Yeah I am still against sacking ETH and would like to see what happens if they stick with him. Could make for an interesting Summer and see some real change from the manager. It could also mean nothing changes, he buys 2-3 more overpriced players that don't work out, the players continue to underperform and he gets sacked for a poor start.
 
Mickeza said:
We were the much better side against spurs first half - Bruno missed an absolute sitter and we were denied a clear penalty. People need to stop pretending what we’re seeing now is the same as it was with all our best defenders fit.
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A game lasts 90 minutes and we were utterly terrible in the other 45 once Ange figured us out. If our best achievement of the year in the league is having a decent half against Spurs, it just shows how terrible the season has been.
 
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