Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Berbaclass said:
Dalot is second choice. Martinez was still injured. Casemiro in and out of the team.

The point is that compared to last season there has been an extreme amount of changes from game to game, upsetting any rhythm we might have built up. We are also playing Maguire who clearly the manager wanted to get rid of.
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Maguire has actually been good though. He’s the least of our problems currently. I’m not sure we’d be that much better if we signed De Ligt or whoever was selected as his replacement.
 
Kumar Abhishek said:
How people are totally discounting the impact of the lack of certainty around the takeover is a bit mind-boggling to me. Has anyone not worked in a place where there is so much uncertainty at the top that a general sense of toxicity starts seeping into day-to-day work? An organization that is going through a takeover or merger is a good example. A lot of people just stop putting in full effort. That's one of the reasons why mergers/acquisitions are pushed through quickly once they are announced. That's also why I think that the Glazers dragging this sale process has been an absolutely heinous crime against the club. It is absolutely unreasonable for the manager, staff, and players to drown out all of these uncertainties and give their 100% all the time. Actually, I am a bit surprised at how we managed to keep to the task last season - it's a minor miracle that we finished 3rd.

I don't recall another situation like this at a top club, to be honest. For comparison, Liverpool's sale to FSG was completed in pretty much 6-7 months and the performances during that time under Hodgson were extremely bad. It's pretty much unprecedented in terms of the duration it has taken. And I don't think changing managers will be any more than a band-aid right now. There will be a slight uptick in effort and maybe performances for a brief while but unless there is clarity from above, the situation will devolve as quickly as it has right now.
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Why would the takeover have any impact on the players training or matches? I doubt most of them even care, it's not like they are going to be made redundant.
 
pocco said:
You want to compare him to Pep? That's a dangerous road to take when you're trying to defend him. His football is nothing like Peps.
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He isn't comparing ETH to Pep. He's comparing the football that Ajax played to the football City play.
 
Sarni said:
A game lasts 90 minutes and we were utterly terrible in the other 45 once Ange figured us out. If our best achievement of the year in the league is having a decent half against Spurs, it just shows how terrible the season has been.
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No shit. The season has been terrible. We’re 8th and have had our worst start to a season since the 70s. A contributing factor may well be the entire back 4 being out and us having no senior LB or RW for much of it. Or the manager who has succeeded everywhere he’s been and had a very good season last year has turned to shit? Who knows. More at 10.
 
Berbaclass said:
That's fine.
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Yeah I thought you'd say that because what you actually want is anything that will buy ETH time. You absolutely hated the thought of Ratcliffe coming in not long ago, now you see him as the man to save ETH. I think you're hoping he'll build ETH a team so good that even ETH will look like he has an idea as to what he's doing. And ETH can come along for the ride and you can tell yourself you were right all along about hiring him.

In reality he'll probably get sacked soon and Ratcliffe won't throw money around as he'll only own a share of the club. He probably will have a go at sorting the structure out, but if he's half a clue then he'll replace the manager ASAP. If he has somebody in mind then, if I was him, I'd be pushing for him to be put in position now.
 
Leftback99 said:
Why would the takeover have any impact on the players training or matches? I doubt most of them even care, it's not like they are going to be made redundant.
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I think the club showed zero ambition in the transfer window and maybe that pissed numerous players off. We needed a starting level quality striker to compete - we’ve signed a project that won’t be ready for 3 years by which time Bruno, Shaw, Varane and Casemiro will all be done. Signing Casemiro for that price shows a club trying to win immediately - signing Hojlund shows one building something for the future. Yet another example of a mix and match approach to recruitment.
 
VP89 said:
I didn't think I had to 'admit' sackable form, its quite objective that even staunch defenders cannot ignore.

I don't think I'll be a "ten hag out" guy unless he really continues a feckup form up to Christmas. I don't see myself changing my view before then if at all.
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Newcastle
Chelsea
Bournemouth
Bayern
Liverpool
West Ham
Aston Villa

All in the month of December. Honest question: Can the club really afford to wait until Christmas if this continues for the next couple of games?
 
Berbaclass said:
He isn't comparing ETH to Pep. He's comparing the football that Ajax played to the football City play.
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"Yet Guardiola can?" His words, not mine.

His football is nothing like Peps and was implemented at a much lower standard. To do what Pep does in the PL and CL with multiple clubs takes a very good coach. ETH can't do that at this level, even if he wanted to. Which he doesn't.
 
Mickeza said:
No shit. The season has been terrible. We’re 8th and have had our worst start to a season since the 70s. A contributing factor may well be the entire back 4 being out and us having no senior LB or RW for much of it. Or the manager who has succeeded everywhere he’s been and had a very good season last year has turned to shit? Who knows. More at 10.
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Yes, sure, the manager has done absolutely nothing wrong,- no setting up the team with massive holes where the midfield should be, no playing our 'best;', if most erratic no.10 as an ill-disciplined 8 or out on the wing, no overplaying of particular players and in particular underperforming players, no failures to rectify areas where we're being over-run during games, no advocating for the club to spend its finite funds on particular players historically best used as 10s when we desperately needed a dynamic, press resistant 8 and then failing to play them anyway. No allowing the players to escape accountability when it comes to performances, except for a few performative gestures, internal and external, according to leak reports, no craven attempts to represent the team as uncoachable towards anything like a fluent style, despite the spending and a spate of promising young players who, regardless of anything else, would love to stake their claims as PL footballers, and despite the history of managers with less 'well equipped' sides getting their teams to play coherent football within a matter of months,.

Of course injuries play a part in a team's balance, but it's the number of continuous unforce errors- not just bad judgement but a seeming failure to recognize errors : in a normal job (perhaps not one cossetted in the C suite) you'd be put on performance-related probation at best, and let go at worst for the kind of repeated blunders he's committing, especially given ow much licence he had to 'shape' the squad in a relatively short space of time.
 
Mickeza said:
No shit. The season has been terrible. We’re 8th and have had our worst start to a season since the 70s. A contributing factor may well be the entire back 4 being out and us having no senior LB or RW for much of it. Or the manager who has succeeded everywhere he’s been and had a very good season last year has turned to shit? Who knows. More at 10.
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A manager that has not proven himself in a similar environment before. As if we haven't seen literally dozens similar examples of managers being unable to transition from managing a huge club in a smaller league to managing in one of the best leagues in the world. It's actually fairly rare that these managers succeed, they usually end up like Villas Boas and De Boer.

He doesn't have the talent, knowledge or the tools to succeed here, it's as clear as it can possibly be. Even the mere suggestion that him having a few players out makes him completely incapable of having the team play anything other than the worst brand of football of possibly all teams in the league suggests that he's just not the man for the job.

Injuries can lead to some dip in performance but not the cratering that we have witnessed.
 
MackRobinson said:
Newcastle
Chelsea
Bournemouth
Bayern
Liverpool
West Ham
Aston Villa

All in the month of December. Honest question: Can the club really afford to wait until Christmas if this continues for the next couple of games?
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He shouldn't get the next couple of games. If he messed them up then we're in serious trouble. Trying to bring in another manager in December would be a recipe for disaster. Give them November and the international break to get their feet under the table before the tough fixtures.
 
Baxquux said:
Yes, sure, the manager has done absolutely nothing wrong,- no setting up the team with massive holes where the midfield should be, no playing our 'best;', if most erratic no.10 as an ill-disciplined 8 or out on the wing, no overplaying of particular players and in particular underperforming players, no failures to rectify areas where we're being over-run during games, no advocating for the club to spend its finite funds on particular players historically best used as 10s when we desperately needed a dynamic, press resistant 8 and then failing to play them anyway.
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Where did I say he’s done nothing wrong?
 
pocco said:
He shouldn't get the next couple of games. If he messed them up then we're in serious trouble. Trying to bring in another manager in December would be a recipe for disaster. Give them November and the international break to get their feet under the table before the tough fixtures.
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We should do it but we won't.

I want him out as soon as possible and will breath a huge sigh of relief when he's gone as I genuinely think he's the worst thing that happened to us since Moyes, mainly because of how much he's going to set us back with his actions, but he's basically guaranteed to finish the season even if we linger around 15th in January.
 
Sarni said:
A manager that has not proven himself in a similar environment before.
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No. You aren’t gaslighting people into believing last season didn’t happen. He took over the worst Manchester United squad in EPL history, lost Pogba, Matic and Ronaldo from it on free transfers and in one season finished 3rd and got to two cup finals. He did prove himself in a similar environment quite literally months ago.
 
Leftback99 said:
Why would the takeover have any impact on the players training or matches? I doubt most of them even care, it's not like they are going to be made redundant.
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It has a huge impact. The atmosphere around and inside the club has a big impact. It's easy to see when a club is moving forward as one, with the intention to improve and be the best that they can be. It is also easy to see when every part of the club is pulling in different directions. There is uncertainty in squad members, there is uncertainty in coaching staff members, there is uncertainty in club staff members. There are directors making decisions that half of the club strongly disagree with. Everyone is seeing failure after failure without significant changes, with only the manager being the change that happens. The playing squad aren't some island away from the club, they live and feel every single thing that happens within the club.

The toxic atmosphere that had risen during the summer always had the possibility to derail the season before it began. Combine it with some bad luck in the first performances, some key injuries leading to some questionable tactics, and it descends into a chaos that Ten Hag evidently doesn't know how to pull us out of.

Just look at the change in Newcastle during Ashley's time and after. It's not all about signings, it's not all about managers. If there is a garbage system behind, if the directors and owners don't give a feck and give the vibe that they don't give a feck for over a decade, if they let the infrastructure deteriorate over the years, if they let standards drop, then that is felt everywhere.
 
Mickeza said:
No. You aren’t gaslighting people into believing last season didn’t happen. He took over the worst Manchester United squad in EPL history, lost Pogba, Matic and Ronaldo from it on free transfers and in one season finished 3rd and got to two cup finals. He did prove himself in a similar environment quite literally months ago.
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He took over a squad that finished 2nd in 2020-21 and 3rd in 2019-20, spent 200 million to improve it (including replacing the only significant departure Pogba with Casemiro) and finished 3rd with them.

It wasn't nearly as miraculous as his fans think. It was a decent season, not more, not less. There were times I was seriously impressed with our performances and times when I was seriously disappointed. Ole had similar seasons and he was equally unqualified for the job.
 
Mickeza said:
No shit. The season has been terrible. We’re 8th and have had our worst start to a season since the 70s. A contributing factor may well be the entire back 4 being out and us having no senior LB or RW for much of it. Or the manager who has succeeded everywhere he’s been and had a very good season last year has turned to shit? Who knows. More at 10.
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Spot on. It's impossible for a manager to go from doing a miracle last season to being utter crap in the very next one. But imo he really needs to stop being so stubborn with his football at least until his first choice players are back.
 
pocco said:
He shouldn't get the next couple of games. If he messed them up then we're in serious trouble. Trying to bring in another manager in December would be a recipe for disaster. Give them November and the international break to get their feet under the table before the tough fixtures.
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Agreed. That's a rough run of matches, and the last thing you want is a team bereft of confidence with a lame duck or newly appointed manager in charge. Newcastle, Bayern, Liverpool, and Villa will smell blood in the water.
 
MackRobinson said:
Agreed. That's a rough run of matches, and the last thing you want is a team bereft of confidence with a lame duck or newly appointed manager in charge. Newcastle, Bayern, Liverpool, and Villa will smell blood in the water.
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Bayern won't even turn up for that game.
 
Strelok said:
Spot on. It's impossible for a manager to go from doing a miracle last season to being utter crap in the very next one. But imo he really needs to stop being so stubborn with his football at least until his first choice players are back.
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He isn’t stubborn though. He’s playing Mctominay as a second striker like he did with Wout and has dropped our defensive line. No playing out short - onana is going direct - no more aggressive pressing like earlier this season - it’s very grim to watch but he’s clearly tried to be pragmatic.
 
I know its been tough with injuries, but Ten Hag needs to find his best team and stick with it. The midfield 3 is changing every game....

Burnley - Casemiro / McTominay / Hannibal
Palace CC - Casemiro / Mount / Hannibal
Palace - Casemiro / Mount / Bruno
Galatasaray - Casemiro / Mount / Hannibal
Brentford - Casemiro / Mount /Amrabat
Sheff Utd - McTominay / Amrabat / Bruno
Copenhagen - McTominay / Amrabat / Bruno
City - McTominay / Amrabat / Eriksen
Newcastle CC - Casemiro / Mount / Hannibal
 
NewGlory said:
Explain this:

EVERYBODY who watches United agrees that Bruno should never be played out of position, on the wing and we need two defensive midfielders

Why is Ten Hag oblivious of this? Why does he stubbornly keep doing the same shit? He is not dumber than average fan, he is stubborn to an extreme detriment
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Okay, just so you know, this is not my opinion, however I've seen this posited as a reason re the drop off in form (change of system), and it deals with the query re 2 DMs:

"ETH has changed the system and eventually wants to play with 1DM with the extra player to create more opportunities for overloads in the final third, i.e., lose a player from the back of the side to create an extra body up front."
 
Strelok said:
Spot on. It's impossible for a manager to go from doing a miracle last season to being utter crap in the very next one. But imo he really needs to stop being so stubborn with his football at least until his first choice players are back.
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It's getting quite annoying hearing that he performed a miracle by taking Manchester United to 3rd and winning the tinpot cup.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
It's getting quite annoying hearing that he performed a miracle by taking Manchester United to 3rd and winning the tinpot cup.
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It's very strange. We had an abysmal 21-22 but performed very similarly to 22-23 in 19-20 and 20-21, which I guess must have been some sorcery from none other than the mighty Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
 
Sarni said:
We should do it but we won't.

I want him out as soon as possible and will breath a huge sigh of relief when he's gone as I genuinely think he's the worst thing that happened to us since Moyes, mainly because of how much he's going to set us back with his actions, but he's basically guaranteed to finish the season even if we linger around 15th in January.
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That's a terrifying thought. Will Old Trafford still be in one piece by that point? Think the fans will tear the place down if the club try to make us endure this any longer.

Last night it felt like a big shift in the ground, everyone has had enough. It'll get nasty soon. ETH doesn't have the 'ex player & hero' factor that Ole had, which I think is why nobody would ever really turn on him vocally. But ETH is an outsider and I can sense that things are going to get bad soon. There was a lot of anger inside the stadium last night.
 
pocco said:
That's a terrifying thought. Will Old Trafford still be in one piece by that point? Think the fans will tear the place down if the club try to make us endure this any longer.

Last night it felt like a big shift in the ground, everyone has had enough. It'll get nasty soon. ETH doesn't have the 'ex player & hero' factor that Ole had, which I think is why nobody would ever really turn on him vocally. But ETH is an outsider and I can sense that things are going to get bad soon. There was a lot of anger inside the stadium last night.
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I think fans are firmly behind him. Looking through Reddit groups it seems majority want him to get as many chances to rebuild and as much time as possible. There's this overwhelming delusion that he's next Ferguson or better.
 
Sarni said:
I think fans are firmly behind him. Looking through Reddit groups it seems majority want him to get as many chances to rebuild and as much time as possible. There's this overwhelming delusion that he's next Ferguson or better.
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Its insane. Rebuild what? He signed a dozen players. This rebuild fantasy is deluded. His signings are abysmal.
 
He's pretty much got three matches to make us look good while winning against weaker teams now. If not, there is no comming back from this and he will probably leave us in the worst shape of all the post Fergie managers.
Right now we just look completely lost.

Good luck, Erik!
 
Tom Van Persie said:
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How can you even put together a group of people who can watch Antony and recommend him?

We randomly happened to sign almost exclusively players that played for Ajax, impressed against Ajax or were on Ajax's wishlist?
 
Mickeza said:
No. You aren’t gaslighting people into believing last season didn’t happen. He took over the worst Manchester United squad in EPL history, lost Pogba, Matic and Ronaldo from it on free transfers and in one season finished 3rd and got to two cup finals. He did prove himself in a similar environment quite literally months ago.
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Wait, he got rid of Ronaldo. That was one of the things he's done well apparently. Now it's an excuse?

Pogba? Should have been gone years ago and did feck all anyway. Matic was way past it.

What about the players he did sign and the money he spent? It's not like losing then fit free curtailed his spending. He brought in the best DM in the world from Real Madrid in Casemiro. Spent loads of money bringing his players with him from Ajax. It's not some miracle when you consider how poor other top teams were and the cup run we had.
 
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