Can only pray that this is true. This is the only way forward for the club, the only concern would be that we don't hire the right sporting director. Paul Mitchell would be a risky choice.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Can only pray that this is true. This is the only way forward for the club, the only concern would be that we don't hire the right sporting director. Paul Mitchell would be a risky choice.
Meanwhile you didn't post a single counter argument to what I said.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/26/louis-van-gaal-manchester-united-injury-crisis
https://www.skysports.com/football/...-will-cost-manchester-united-come-seasons-end
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...-crisis-ahead-of-manchester-united-vs-arsenal
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/apr/21/jose-mourinho-manchester-united-injuries
"Unprecedented". Ten Hag cult my man.
What does that have to do with my post ?
Haha, you can't use "translation" just to build a strawman.
You do need to demonstrate proven and available, guaranteed to be better is over the top but you should at least be able to make a coherent argument as to why they would be better. Anything less is shallow rubbish.
We will see. If results and performances dont change he will be sacked.
Yeah absolutely spot on,thought someone from Stretford Paddock (yes I know) made a good point at the end of podcast. They suggested Erik wanted to sign Hojlund and not someone experienced because thought Greenwood was going to be coming back.
It's just the way you dismiss any name that isn't pep/klopp. I could use your own logic to veto ETH two years ago by saying winning the Dutch league should be expected for a club like Ajax, and that one CL run was more down to his fantastic players, and question whether he could bring that to the PL. But that would be needlessly harsh and not a reason to not take a gamble on him.
Can only hope that he turns it around and we go on a run soon. I need that. United being this bad really messes with my enjoyment of the sport
I’ve done it again. I’ve had to look at yesterday’s line up it’s hilarious. My mind is completely blown by both the personnel and the positions they were asked to play i can’t get over it.
Not sure if that tally's because...
It is well reported ETH wanted Kane but the club didn't want to pay the fee/salary/deal with Levy/dedicate that much to a 30+ y/o player.
After over a year out, Ten Hag would have had no idea how Greenwood would have performed and dealt with the focus he would have brought.
Ten Hag has enough issues this year. Would have been great to have a player of Greenwoods quality available, but i think it would have been a net negative right now, when you consider all the bad press and attention it would have caused.
If United were 5-5, as we are now, but with Greenwood, you just know people would be spinning it to say Greenwood is the issue.
It brought us good success in year one, and a big low in the first third of this season.
But no manager worth their salt comes in with a long term fix without pain. Other candidates aren't worthy of a discussion because this one hasn't had the time to implement the necessary. And it's going to suck balls when it's low, deal with it.
Hes not in stackable stage, not after what he pulled out the bag last season. Like or lump it, hel be given a lot more time. And so he should.
I think he is not at sackable stage because of the potential partial takeover being close.
November is crucial....
Newcastle - League Cup
Fulham away
Copenhagen away
Luton home
Everton away
Galatasaray away.
If we go out of the League Cup, lose to Galatasaray and don't get at least 6 points from those 3 relatively easy league games, then it will be very hard to justify him staying.
Especially if the performances continue to be poor.
Well I'm a firm ETH supporter, but the only game im willing to surrender is the Newcastle one, feck the league cup.
All other games should be and must be won. Don't care how.
All other games should be and must be won. Don't care how.
Other than Newcastle those aren't the worst fixtures in the world although December looks like it could get pretty ugly. The only hope is to get some of those injured players back and hope things improve drastically with chance creation and finishing.
That’s all fine and dandy, but how is it going to change his terrible team selections, non existent tactics and make the team look and act well trained?
What context do you want to add this season? Injuries? Fair enough, we've had a few. So have other clubs. No matter what context you add, there's no excuses for our performances against dross teams. If we'd have played well and/ or beat the shite we've played (bar Spurs, Arsenal and City) then we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. And in terms of performance, this has been going on for 7 or 8 months. Long before any of the 'context' if this season. The writing was on the wall, some just couldn't and still can't see it.
I'm not dismissing any names outright, I'm dismissing suggestions that haven't had any thought put into them. The argument that "De Zerbi has done well at Brighton" isn't anywhere near enough. Compared to ETH who dominated the league he was in and went deep in the CL, his CV is much better than a lot of the suggestions given.
If you'd read my posts, I've reacted positively to some suggestions, like Marco Rose and particularly Nagelsmann, who has the right some, profile, and experience and success at Bayern who are a club of a similar stature and expectation.
The question is why though, the guy is not an idiot, he must have done it for a reason, like he must have been willing to say he picked Evans and Lindelof over Varane and Reguilon for 'tactical reasons' knowing full well he'd be ridiculed for it.
Let him stay. Season is gone anyway, and there are no better alternatives out there. Just give him the season and see where we are in the end.
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I wouldn't be sure about that. A triple digit iq might be a reach for him.
I don't think he's particularly bright, even if he isn't a certified idiot.
The whole point of having a recruitment structure and technical director is that the manager isn't relied upon to be good in the transfer market.
Why sign a manager who has always worked under a sporting director and has never been in charge of transfers and then expect him to be a transfer market wizard? Thats the point, the club have again told lies and ignored the structure
Absolutely no where have I absolved ETH either, the club however takes more responsibility for transfer feck ups because the club said they would have a structure in place to fix this same issue after we saw it with previous managers.
Theres also no excuse for say, Liverpool to to scuff up early season games to Fulham, Palace, lose to Forrest, not score against Everton and lose to Leeds either.
But it can happen. Because in the grand scheme of context, even the best managers in the world well ahead in their own system can be rocked badly when their team starts slow in the season and they suffer a couple of injuries.
Because my point about ajax having won feck all prior to him being manager was proved correct? Cheers.
It's painful to read, honestly.
Your point falls apart with your final paragraph. If you are a Redcafe poster who thought Ten Hag had potential, and no longer think he has potential, then any manager who has potential is a better option. If you're unable to name a single manager who has potential, and explain why they have potential, then your opinion that Ten Hag should be sacked is baseless. The entire premise of wanting him sacked is that you think someone else could do a better job, so if you can't explain who or why, then you can't logically come to the conclusion that he should be sacked, which makes it irrational and best discarded.
Bendan Rodgers was one example of a manager that I knew would obstacles get dismissed even though he's proven to be a good manager in this league, finished 2 points off the top with Liverpool, plays better possession based football than ETH. I don't really rate your opinion so you've not a chance in hell of convincing me he definitely couldn't outperform ETH here. And there's even more exciting options than Rodgers. Like I said, I could make a case for most of the managers if the current top 12 right now. Emery, Howe, Di Zerbi etc. Some of them would get dismissed by posters on here, but ETHs reign here and achievements at Ajax aren't as great as you think. His other CL campaigns weren't great at Ajax. Its just not as high a bar that he has set as you seem to have convinced yourself.
Really high bar there...
You likening Ten Hag to Brendan Rogers speaks absolute volumes. Let's just not discuss further.
Not a name I suggested.
No the statistically best part.
Ajax win feck all prior to ETH?
No wonder you think he's such a genius if that's what you believe. You're just tying yourself in knots.I've given you reasons for why that period was so successful for them domestically, it didn't take a genius to realise it wasn't just ETH behind that period. Their trajectory was on the up and they basically had a good group of players come their, backed up by some good recruitment of players. Which was competent picked apart by Europe's elite as he left. Hence their current demise.
FYI we played Ajax in the EL final the year before he took over.
I think he also had the best win ratio in his first 50 games in club history. Though that bit might need verification.
This last 8 months is definitely the most curious of the various tragicomic episodes since SAF retired. I thought we had the right man at last after that period leading up to the league cup win. In hindsight, was it just some fortuitous alignment of short-lived elements such as:
1. Varane, Casemiro and, to a lesser extent, Eriksen enjoying their last year as physically durable elite level footballers
2. Shaw staying fit and in form next to a great signing (pre-injury) in Martinez
3. Rashford having a hot streak after the World Cup
The wheels fell off after that cup win (the 7-0, the Sevilla shambles, the meek surrender to City in the FA Cup Final) but there seemed to be a legitimate fatigue excuse. Now I wonder whether February to May was the indicator of things to come with with December to February as the unrepresentative outlier.
1. Varane, Casemiro and, to a lesser extent, Eriksen enjoying their last year as physically durable elite level footballers
2. Shaw staying fit and in form next to a great signing (pre-injury) in Martinez
3. Rashford having a hot streak after the World Cup
The wheels fell off after that cup win (the 7-0, the Sevilla shambles, the meek surrender to City in the FA Cup Final) but there seemed to be a legitimate fatigue excuse. Now I wonder whether February to May was the indicator of things to come with with December to February as the unrepresentative outlier.
Jesus christ. Do me a favour and Google when it was last that Ajax won the league title prior to Ten Hag joining. They had a 3 or 5 year run ( I forget which one) of not winning the league before he took the management role and achieved back to back doubles. Then he left and they're shite again.Ajax win feck all prior to ETH?
I've given you reasons for why that period was so successful for them domestically, it didn't take a genius to realise it wasn't just ETH behind that period. Their trajectory was on the up and they basically had a good group of players come their, backed up by some good recruitment of players. Which was competent picked apart by Europe's elite as he left. Hence their current demise.
So you can pretend it's correlation not causation all you want, youl just have no weight to your claim whatsoever.
ETH was using his agency for the transfers and I am sure he was really happy about this arrangement. If this is taken away from him, it will definitely feel to him like a demotion.
So you don't believe their manager, all their best players (who were good enough to sign for Europe's top clubs), their DoF and CEO all collectively leaving within 12 months might have something to do with it? Well done.
We've witnessed it first hand ourselves how disruptive it is and you still can't recognise this. If their next manager still had De Jong, De Ligt, Veltman, Onana, Ziyech, Blind, Antony, Haller, Mazrauoi, Gravenberch, Martinez, Timber etc, along with continuity at the top, then I think they'd have been fine. Do you honestly disagree? That's a wealth of talent they got within that period, a million miles better than anything else in Eredivisie.
As somebody said, they finished 2nd just before he came in. Lost only 3 games. Reached the EL final. Not quite the struggling team you think they were at that point. And their young players were just about to burst into the scene.
Cheers.
You bolded the Brendan Rodgers part.
It was definitely a sign of things to come. As we're the signs that other teams like Liverpool were getting their act together ready for this season. A lot of things went our way last season despite us not being particularly good.
Posters like me got plenty of abuse for pointing it out though.
I agree with most of this, there is some consistency to the way we've started against Spurs, City, Arsenal, Brighton etc with the high press and winning the ball high up the field to be fair but I think the problem is whether it's sustainable for 'top' team to play like this.
A bit like Ole with the counter attacking, we go into most games we play as favourites but because we're apparently trying to be a 'transition team' we're either inviting pressure against smaller sides or have no clue how to break them down when they do let us have the ball.
I think that's why these comments today have annoyed people, because they don't see playing like this getting us anywhere.
A manager doesn't have to have a better resume than the current one. The fact that a current manager isn't getting anything out of the players is more than enough reason to want to see a change.
If that was the case, then Pep would have never got his job at Barca. He replaced Rijkaard, who had won the lot. There are countless examples of less experienced or on paper "lesser" manager taking over an underperforming team and them going onto great things.
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