Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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spiriticon said:
1. The change in structure isn't going to happen because the Glazers' are in charge.

2. The change in owners isn't going to happen because the Glazers' refuse to sell.

Once we have made peace with the above two statements, you quickly realise that a current Man United manager needs to work well despite the 2 points above. Wishing otherwise is wishful thinking, at least in the short term.

Ten Hag needs to show his adaptability more than ever. He cannot be rigid and stubborn right now. He must find a way, it's his job. It's a tough ask, but them's the apples.
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I see your point but other United managers have tried to 'find a way' and have all failed miserably. Failure almost seems a bit inevitable, almost a rite-of-passage under these owners. The cycle needs to be broken.

If the Glazers refuse to sell, then perhaps we'll just have to get used to where we are at in terms of our standards.
 
crossy1686 said:
I’m not saying it doesn’t but we have won games in the past and we can win games currently without ripping everything up and starting again. For some reason we’re the only club that needs this to happen to win games of football against the likes of Palace. People talk like everything is the issue when the reality is, we’re not winning games because the manager is making a mess of the team. When the Glazers start taking training and picking the team then we can blame them for the results and performances.
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ETH will have to take responsibility but it does beg the question why none of the managers we've had post Sir Alex have made a good account of themselves.
 
Resonance said:
I still think he'll turn it around, top 4 is going to be a big challenge now. However, I'm convinced we'll actually start scoring goals soon.
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What's convincing you?

This far into his reign we should be seeing a plan of attack. We still look all over the place going forward waiting for a magic pass from Bruno or and mazy run from Rashford, we're not very good at the 'team goal'.

Win or lose you can see exact how Spurs, Liverpool, City, Arsenal, Brighton ect. Want to play, If I was asked to describe 'EtH ball, I'd be stuck'.
 
Sarni said:
I get that we beat Crystal Palace B team without Bruno and Rashford which has made everyone think we would instantly become the best team in the world if we simply benched both of them but that’s not really an issue here. The team we fielded mid-week would likely lose against full strength Palace team playing at close to a 100% that we saw today.
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I disagree to be honest. A midfield of Mount and Bruno just isn't going to work because you need an orchestrator to control the pace of the game and we know Bruno will never be one and Mount is going to need a lot of time and coaching to be. As for Rashford, everything he does is just rubbish as far as I'm concerned. His unwillingness to press makes our pressing weak, his lack of mobility off the ball makes it difficult for who ever the Left back to actually have space and his selfishness on the ball kills our attacks almost every single time. And the few times he has managed to get into position to make something happen he just fails.

Not benching Rashford and persisting with this Bruno-Mount Experiment will cost ETH his job.
 
Catalandevil said:
Our best two players are Rashford and Bruno. Both play better when our team defends in a low block and launches attacks with very direct and long balls. However, ETH's style of play is very different, and he has signed players that fit his style, but that don’t complement Rashford and Bruno's strengths.

With this summer’s signings, ETH has tried to go one step further implementing his style of play. However, what has happened is that Bruno and Rashford have gone backward and are not adapting to the new style.

It will not be easy for ETH to implement his style of play while integrating them. The club will be too scared to sell both of our best players, so either ETH finds a way, or he will not be here next year.

Sacking ETH or selling Bruno and Rashford will not solve our problems unless we hire a competent football director to start managing and planning our squad better.
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Nice point~ couldn't agree more.

However solving Rashford and Bruno issue is NOT so difficult, as long as ETH's new signings like Anthony and Mount are capable of replacing the old twos.

Are Eth's new signings good enough for our manager to knock out Rashford and Bruno? definitely not.

see, that's what the real problem is: ETH's poor signings couldn't afford what he wants.
 
DRJosh said:
I see your point but other United managers have tried to 'find a way' and have all failed miserably. Failure almost seems a bit inevitable, almost a rite-of-passage under these owners. The cycle needs to be broken.

If the Glazers refuse to sell, then perhaps we'll just have to get used to where we are at in terms of our standards.
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I'm already getting used to the shit. After 4 or 5 changes in the last decade, I now feel numb whenever a manager is sacked so for me now it doesn't matter who's in charge. It's just a another name.

At this point, if Fat Sam turns out to be the guy that works the best under the Glazers and manages to get some consistency in this team until the time they sell up, then so be it honestly.
 
DRJosh said:
ETH will have to take responsibility but it does beg the question why none of the managers we've had post Sir Alex have made a good account of themselves.
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Because there’s a reason no other club in the world gives their managers £400m and total free will to sign whoever they want and replace whoever they want. We need to stop giving managers so much freedom.
 
This is the time show what he's made of and to stamp his authority on the team. The three biggest name players are underperforming but are not being dropped. Nothing will change if players keep playing however they want with no repercussions for their performances. Send a message and drop Casemiro, Bruno and Rashford. Simple as that. I guarantee you that if those guys had any pride, the next time they step on the pitch, they will play with a fire that we've yet to see from them all season. If they continue to underperform, you relegate them permanently to the bench.
 
Catalandevil said:
Our best two players are Rashford and Bruno. Both play better when our team defends in a low block and launches attacks with very direct and long balls. However, ETH's style of play is very different, and he has signed players that fit his style, but that don’t complement Rashford and Bruno's strengths.

With this summer’s signings, ETH has tried to go one step further implementing his style of play. However, what has happened is that Bruno and Rashford have gone backward and are not adapting to the new style.

It will not be easy for ETH to implement his style of play while integrating them. The club will be too scared to sell both of our best players, so either ETH finds a way, or he will not be here next year.

Sacking ETH or selling Bruno and Rashford will not solve our problems unless we hire a competent football director to start managing and planning our squad better.
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Then he needs to bench them. Especially Rashford. For me Bruno is easier to accommodate because atleast he doesn't just stand there doing nothing. Rashford should be benched and let Garnacho who is younger and easier to coach take his spot. Rashford lacks the intelligence to play in tight spaces and it's clear his unwilling to learn.
 
Dannn411 said:
This is the time show what he's made of and to stamp his authority on the team. The three biggest name players are underperforming but are not being dropped. Nothing will change if players keep playing however they want with no repercussions for their performances. Send a message and drop Casemiro, Bruno and Rashford. Simple as that. I guarantee you that if those guys had any pride, the next time they step on the pitch, they will play with a fire that we've yet to see from them all season. If they continue to underperform, you relegate them permanently to the bench.
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The problem with Case IMHO, is that he is taking on more attacking responsibility than he needs to. Yes he scores goals but he needs to step back and focus on shielding his defence more. Many times when we are caught on the counter, he is behind the ball. That's not right especially with the high press we are hell bent on employing this season.
 
spiriticon said:
I'm already getting used to the shit. After 4 or 5 changes in the last decade, I now feel numb whenever a manager is sacked so for me now it doesn't matter who's in charge. It's just a another name.

At this point, if Fat Sam turns out to be the guy that works the best under the Glazers and manages to get some consistency in this team until the time they sell up, then so be it honestly.
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Fair enough. Just goes to show how far we've fallen, from that treble in 1999 to the last decade of utter aimlessness and desperation.
 
chocolate cloud said:
Varane and lindelof were brutal yesterday playing out from the back. Really slowed us down.

Fernandes was completely anonymous.

We need to play martial on the left. I'm sick of Rashford. Put Amrabat in midfield. Stop this left back nonsense.
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Who were we to play left back instead? Dalot is the only fit full back we have....
 
DRJosh said:
Fair enough. Just goes to show how far we've fallen, from that treble in 1999 to the last decade of utter aimlessness and desperation.
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The way it's going, I believe we could go 20 or more years without winning the league. Might even beat Liverpool's run.

I just hope I will be able to see United win the league one more time in my lifetime.
 
STYLOISRED said:
I disagree to be honest. A midfield of Mount and Bruno just isn't going to work because you need an orchestrator to control the pace of the game and we know Bruno will never be one and Mount is going to need a lot of time and coaching to be. As for Rashford, everything he does is just rubbish as far as I'm concerned. His unwillingness to press makes our pressing weak, his lack of mobility off the ball makes it difficult for who ever the Left back to actually have space and his selfishness on the ball kills our attacks almost every single time. And the few times he has managed to get into position to make something happen he just fails.

Not benching Rashford and persisting with this Bruno-Mount Experiment will cost ETH his job.
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ETH could bench anyone of his players including Rashford and Bruno whenever he wants, as long as his new signings like Anthony and Mount are capable of replacing Rash and Bruno.
Are Anthony and Mount good enough to take place of Rashford and Bruno? I don't think so.
 
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I really hope this has been a wake up call for EtH and proof some of these players can't be trusted. I hope he drops Bruno and Rashford in the week.
 
Rednotdead said:
Postecoglou has been at Spurs for only a matter of weeks and they already have an identifiable playing style. Ten Hag has been here for over a year.
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Maybe Spurs players were willing to go along with what he wanted. Ours seem to try something for a couple of weeks and then not listen. Ole tried being expansive and gave up on it. Also Postegoglou is quite an intimidating figure. Not sure they would argue with him.
 
Rednotdead said:
Postecoglou has been at Spurs for only a matter of weeks and they already have an identifiable playing style. Ten Hag has been here for over a year.
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This is exactly what I keep saying. Other managers can go into new teams and put their stamp on it straight away. Our managers need about 3 years to do so….
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Maybe Spurs players were willing to go along with what he wanted. Ours seem to try something for a couple of weeks and then not listen. Ole tried being expansive and gave up on it. Also Postegoglou is quite an intimidating figure. Not sure they would argue with him.
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And ETH bans players and gets rid of them… what makes you think they won’t obey him?
 
IncyWincySpider said:
The Bruno/Mount situation is very strange. They are competing for the same position but one has just been made captain and the other has just been bought as the marquee summer signing, so both have got to play.
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Funny thing is I thought it work in midweek with Casemiro, Mount and Hannibal. Then he changed it. I would have been tempted to leave it. Even would have kept Garnacho in to run at them, he will actually try to find somebody. If he had to play Bruno then it would have to be wide right, or Mount there as Pellistri did nothing. Rashford at the moment is a big issue. I think he sides with players being disciplined or dropped.
 
DJ_21 said:
This is exactly what I keep saying. Other managers can go into new teams and put their stamp on it straight away. Our managers need about 3 years to do so….
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Then that says it is the players who give up and the managers do not have the courage of their convictions and change to try and suit them.
 
DJ_21 said:
This is exactly what I keep saying. Other managers can go into new teams and put their stamp on it straight away. Our managers need about 3 years to do so….
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Even after 3 years, there is no style. Only surviving. Except for LvG, no manager managed to impose a style of play. Well Jose also did to an extend, but that was not what we wanted.
 
Samid said:
Talks today that they’re discussing a new long-term contract. Makes sense. Tie him up so he doesn’t walk away or get poached by Real/Bayern.
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Jesus Christ, we always do that the season we sack them, to pay them a higher compensation after the sacking. Completely flabbergasted by these clowns. Like clockwork, when it is clear the manager is useless, they extend it :lol:
 
DJ_21 said:
And ETH bans players and gets rid of them… what makes you think they won’t obey him?
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Because they are Manchester United players, not Spurs players. They are forever being told they are fabulous my our own in club media.That is why it is difficult to get rid of some, apart from the wages. I think some would not now be able to cope being out of the spotlight. I agree he gets rid and bans players, but at most clubs that would make players buckled down and play harder to stay at United. Our lot form camps for and against which is not healthy.
 
izec said:
Even after 3 years, there is no style. Only surviving. Except for LvG, no manager managed to impose a style of play. Well Jose also did to an extend, but that was not what we wanted.
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I’d say Ole had a mixed style of play. We was best under him when countering but there was other games we dominated possession under him but just couldn’t score.
 
DRJosh said:
ETH will have to take responsibility but it does beg the question why none of the managers we've had post Sir Alex have made a good account of themselves.
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Exactly. It has been a procession of managers who have struggled. Can it all be them or the way the recruitment and scouting at the club run and having people not qualified running it. Unfortunately we have this obsession with style as well, which is why we went for ETH in the hope of attractive football. Who next Potter who couldn't cope at Chelsea? If you want to develop the club to play in a certain way it has to be a long term project from academy to first team, with all the ups and downs. Football is now money driven so time is not always given.
 
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There's so much major shit that ten Hag needs to sort out it's unreal. I see these as key priorities for the manager:

1. How to make Rashford and Bruno into team players and increase their in game intelligence?
2. How to mitigate Casemiro and Eriksen's lack of legs in midfield? Their experience is absolutely essential but in the PL you need legs and lots of it.
3. How to get Mount, Anthony and Sanc..nahhh forget the last one.. to impose themselves on a game in a meaningful way?
4. Is there anything more that can be done on players diet and fitness regime to reduce this absolutely ridiculous amounts of injuries?

So much to do and I don't see clear solutions being implemented. It's a big job and he can't always hide away in excuses of needing more time.
 
Still can’t believe a massive club like United have such a shit footballing structure that they’re still allowing managers to make signings. Seems like we still haven’t learnt from the past that we shouldn’t be giving managers full control especially when it comes to signings.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I think Bayern, Real Madrid, City etc. all have DOF’s who make signings in the positions the manager needs. It was even clear at Ajax that Ten Hag had Overmars making signings for him so why would United allow him to sign players? Look at how he’s wasted so much on players who are either not ready or not up to the required standards. What’s the use of our huge scouting system?This club baffles me.

Mount is a good player but at £65m is not needed. We needed an 8 so why not buy an actual 8 rather than buying Mount who has to now adapt to that position. It doesn’t make sense to me. Our style of play is non coherent and it’s like the players don’t even know or understand what they’re doing. It’s funny to think that after so many years since SAF left, LVG is the only manager who has been able to implement his playing style (albeit a really boring one).

Also meritocracy isn’t being implemented at United. I just don’t get why Rashford can’t be benched after day in day out of poor performances especially when Garnacho has proven himself to be up to the task when called upon. Their fullback was scared of him so why not start him again and also in a way show the so called senior players that they can be benched if they don’t perform?
 
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redshaw said:
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Thank you.
 
Borys said:
It seems increasingly likely last season was a fluke and result of freak Rashford and Casemiro form (for part of the year). I don't see where this team is heading, and opposition has figured us out. Basically just block vertical passing lanes, press Casemiro and you should be good.
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welcome to the party
 
pascell said:
Is that true? If so holy shit thats relegation form.
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It isn’t. Over the course of season it’d put us on 63 points which to be honest would be fantastic to see this season. I think we may not go above 60 or even 55.
 
crossy1686 said:
Except we don’t have anything that looks like a style and people on here keep saying he needs more money and time to do it but all the evidence suggests it’s possible in a short amount of time if the players buy in.
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We clearly do have a style, and it's been explained to you multiple times, you're just choosing to ignore it so you can parrot the same tired "no style" nonsense. As for "all the evidence", you've offered a single passable example in Ange, who is getting a new manager bounce.
 
I said at the start of the season that I didn't care about the league position (within reason) and that what I wanted to see was tactical progression.

My major concern is that so far we're 18-months into ETHs stewardship and I've still got no idea what Ten Hags football is supposed to be and/or what it's supposed to achieve
 
El Jefe said:
Seriously disagree with this. While Salah has been the best player in the Klopp era the biggest reason for their success is Klopp.

The point is Klopp knew what was needed to implement his style. It’s known that Klopp’s first choice was Brandt and the club overruled to buy Salah but that isn’t the point. Brandt is a player that also suits Klopp’s style perfectly, they just opted for the better player.

In Ten Hag’s case what is he trying to accomplish with his signings. No one has a scooby of what he’s trying to achieve with Mount. Onana the ball playing goal keeper is in a team that is shite at passing out from the back and ball retention.

My point is Klopp clearly knew what type of players would suit his high octane style and the club helped him in achieving that. Ten Hag doesn’t have a style of play or a functioning system yet, this is my main issue.

What is the ten hag style? He said he wants us to be the best transition team but even then our counterpress is inconsistent as feck and we have a few slow and lazy farts in the team.
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Look I'm as big a fan of Klopp as anyone, I think he's brilliant and I think what he's achieved is far more impressive than Pep has. To me he's the best manager around at the moment.

The point is that Klopp knew the style of players, but had support and vision from others within the club to identify players who could fit that style, and they did a better job than he did in that case. If it had been entirely up to Klopp, they wouldn't have brought in by far and away their best player under him, and wouldn't have had the same success. It's a team effort. ETH doesn't have anywhere near the level of support when it comes to identifying targets.

As for Ten Hag not having a style, it's just entirely false, and you undermine it in your very next line. There's clearly a style of play we're trying to implement, we just aren't consistently getting it right yet. Now you can argue that you expect him to be able to move us from a mid-block counter attacking team to the high pressing transition style that he's trying to implement more quickly and seamlessly if you like, but suggesting there's no style undermines the rest of your point as it's so clearly untrue.
 
The Hilton said:
Look I'm as big a fan of Klopp as anyone, I think he's brilliant and I think what he's achieved is far more impressive than Pep has. To me he's the best manager around at the moment.

The point is that Klopp knew the style of players, but had support and vision from others within the club to identify players who could fit that style, and they did a better job than he did in that case. If it had been entirely up to Klopp, they wouldn't have brought in by far and away their best player under him, and wouldn't have had the same success. It's a team effort. ETH doesn't have anywhere near the level of support when it comes to identifying targets.

As for Ten Hag not having a style, it's just entirely false, and you undermine it in your very next line. There's clearly a style of play we're trying to implement, we just aren't consistently getting it right yet. Now you can argue that you expect him to be able to move us from a mid-block counter attacking team to the high pressing transition style that he's trying to implement more quickly and seamlessly if you like, but suggesting there's no style undermines the rest of your point as it's so clearly untrue.
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ETH also doesn't have the experience to identify players from outside his own sphere which is why he goes for players who have played in the Dutch league. Hojlund is a slight deviation from that. As you say he needed a DOF if he wanted one or not. Nobody had the courage or knowledge to say it.
 
I think we should stick by him during this rough period. We finished 3rd last season and won a trophy, I think he deserves a bit more time.

Arsenal stuck by Arteta during their rough period and look where they are now.
 
He's like a cross between United LVG, any version of Dyche, and Capello with England.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
ETH also doesn't have the experience to identify players from outside his own sphere which is why he goes for players who have played in the Dutch league. Hojlund is a slight deviation from that. As you say he needed a DOF if he wanted one or not. Nobody had the courage or knowledge to say it.
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He needs more than a DOF though, he (along with anyone else who would take the job) needs a structure around him that has a shared footballing vision, and the ability to identify players who would succeed with us within the style we're implementing, that goes beyond the eye test and into data. It sounds like we're finally trying to put that in place with the new regime, but it'll take time to come good.
 
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