Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[manhood]

If you are calling the club captain and two of our best players, the 'enemies of progress' then you can well and truly feck off. Why can't people just enjoy the fecking win instead of posting shite such as this and having a dig at our players. It's like a fecking disease around here.

If someone's opinion is a disease, you need your head checked.

Anyone can come up with their opinion without "attacking" the players. What they said was also true, we played better without them, Rashford usually runs into a wall, Bruno usually tries the XXX pass. What's wrong with that?

How fecking entitled you need to be that your opinion is okay, but others' is a fecking disease.

 

[TheGame]

If someone's opinion is a disease, you need your head checked.

Anyone can come up with their opinion without "attacking" the players. What they said was also true, we played better without them, Rashford usually runs into a wall, Bruno usually tries the XXX pass. What's wrong with that?

How fecking entitled you need to be that your opinion is okay, but others' is a fecking disease.

Fecking hell, did you read the post? I was referring to the tweet in the post. Get your fecking facts right if you want to have a pop. What is a disease around here is that people can't go any time without having a pop at players instead of just enjoying the performance. Being delusional enough to think we can drop two of our best players including our captain. It resembles Twitter and that is a cesspit.

What however is moronic, is that posters want two of our best players dropped because the team as a whole has a bad start and they suddenly think because we beat a weak Crystal Palace team then we can do that. Thankfully the manager thinks differently.

 

[Alcio77]

It’s just 2 wins in a row but they’re massive for boosts in confidence and for players returning from injury. I can guarantee that by January many will regret the negative comments they’ve directed at the manager who’s trying to get rid of the rot at the club.

That’s the hope. But we comfortably won only a game in the League Cup.
We have been shockingly bad till the week-end, showing poor form and no any football style in place.
We now have few easy games in a row before City. If we lose points and then we are battered by City once again, he will not be here by the end of the season

 

[matherto]

What was the actual formation last night?

I've seen the highlights of the game but haven't had chance to watch the full thing.

 

[Laurencio]

What was the actual formation last night?

I've seen the highlights of the game but haven't had chance to watch the full thing.

Liquid total football. It was glorious.

 

[Ballache]

What was the actual formation last night?

I've seen the highlights of the game but haven't had chance to watch the full thing.

343 in possesion but 433 without the ball. Amrabat was basically playing cm fom lb when we had the ball but dropped in at lb when we had to defend.

 

[erikcred]

That’s the hope. But we comfortably won only a game in the League Cup.
We have been shockingly bad till the week-end, showing poor form and no any football style in place.
We now have few easy games in a row before City. If we lose points and then we are battered by City once again, he will not be here by the end of the season

But at the same time, we're only 4 consecutive PL wins away from being back in the title race.

 

[astracrazy]

If you are calling the club captain and two of our best players, the 'enemies of progress' then you can well and truly feck off. Why can't people just enjoy the fecking win instead of posting shite such as this and having a dig at our players. It's like a fecking disease around here.

Rashford may well be one of our best players, but in terms of the team he is a weak link. There are plenty of examples over time where teams play better without their so called "best players", and unless Rashford decides to follow instructions and do what is asked like the youngsters last night then this will be another one.

 

[Revan]

What was the actual formation last night?

I've seen the highlights of the game but haven't had chance to watch the full thing.

A bit like City, with Amrabat playing the Stones role of being a CM in possession and a full back when we were defending. To be fair, he was mostly a CM cause we did not need to do any defending.

Then when Mount went off, Amrabat moved completely to midfield while Lindelof played as a left back. However, Lindelof was playing as a classic left back, not a hybrid of left back/midfielder.

 

[LordSpud]

But at the same time, we're only 4 consecutive PL wins away from being back in the title race.

If the other lot draw or lose 4 on the bounce then sure.

 

[Drainy]

His comments about Mount and Garnacho were perfect.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

Palace b team in the Carabao Cup mate. We would’ve won 5-0 if it was Rashford and Bruno instead of Garnacho and Pellistri.

 

[acid_fuji]

Palace b team in the Carabao Cup mate. We would’ve won 5-0 if it was Rashford and Bruno instead of Garnacho and Pellistri.

Maybe but the ball retention looked much better. Hard to judge anything from an almost friendly.

 

[NLunited]

Even maguire was a club captain, so being a MAN United captain is not a God given acceptance of being world class.

It's not a dig. It's a conversation few of us started here, now more people are seeing it.

In as much as it's a 'Twitter silly meme' as another poster call it, the easiest way to change our play is not sacking ETH or signing another 200m players, it's just changing how we play and structure of the team.

How we play is Bruno Rashford DNA. Dropping Bruno eliminates rushing things, forcing things, Hollywood passes, lose passes, having inexistent midfield.

We will beat around the bush, but eventually it will come to pass, Bruno is one major problem to why we can't be a possession team.

We have supported United before Bruno, have supported United with Bruno and we will continue supporting United after Bruno leaves. He's just one player to over 500 players I have seen play for United as a supporter.

But the most important thing, is the team needs to evolve into a modern team capable of winning league titles and UCL. Whichever way it's achieved I'm 100% supportive.

And my opinion in how to achieve this, is through moving away from being a transition team. Others will say change of manager, change of DoF, change of owners, pouring another 300m for new players etc..

Everyone has their own opinion let's wait and see how it goes.

Bruno is by far our best player, when Rashford isn‘t on form. We lacked creativity yesterday without him.

You say we need to move away from being a transition team. I say we need to improve playing out our attacks from transitions better and we will score lots of goals.

We don‘t need to switch playing style: we needed more responsibility and graft in midfield and more composure on the ball. The problem we‘ve had is that Eriksen gives us composure but lacks defensive contribution.

The solution is Amrabat and hopefully Mainoo when he comes back.

We aren‘t going to be a possession team and certainly aren‘t getting rid of Bruno, that‘s madness.

 

[lsd]

But at the same time, we're only 4 consecutive PL wins away from being back in the title race.

We are at least 4 years away from being in a title race

 

[dubplate warrior]

We never seem to have a problem with teams that do not press us high up the pitch. When the opposition let us control the game and is not organized in their pressing, we look much better.

Enjoyed it today, but I will not read much into it. If Palace sits again that back on Saturday, it will be an easy one as well. I will just keep the intensity, energy and work rate from today. This should be the standard for every game, and if someone cannot bring that, whoever that is, should sit on the bench.

The problem is teams know not to press Onana high up the pitch, however as soon as we pass it out we don't have a player in the first phase who can be an effective outlet into bringing the ball forward. I'm very optimistic that Amrabat will help with this.

 

[fezzerUTD]

If you are calling the club captain and two of our best players, the 'enemies of progress' then you can well and truly feck off. Why can't people just enjoy the fecking win instead of posting shite such as this and having a dig at our players. It's like a fecking disease around here.

Why? People not allowed to have an opinion? I was going to come in and say its refreshing to see the team play without Rashford or Bruno stinking the play up all the time. Do i need to feck off as well because I don’t rate them?

 

[TheGame]

Why? People not allowed to have an opinion? I was going to come in and say its refreshing to see the team play without Rashford or Bruno stinking the play up all the time. Do i need to feck off as well because I don’t rate them?

The tweet called them 'enemies of progress' do you agree with that? We played against a weakened Crystal Palace team and people are getting on their high horse because Rashford and Bruno weren't playing. Quite frankly if you don't realise how important those two players are and were who were two of our best players last season are and think we can get rid of them or the manager is suddenly going to drop them and this will make the team stronger then yes you are deluded. They were really 'stinking up the place' last season weren't they? I truly despair sometimes.

 

[NLunited]

The problem is teams know not to press Onana high up the pitch, however as soon as we pass it out we don't have a player in the first phase who can be an effective outlet into bringing the ball forward. I'm very optimistic that Amrabat will help with this.

Drawing the press is part of our strategy and Amrabat certainly helps in bringing the ball forward with his press resistance.

 

[JeffFromHK]

The tweet called them 'enemies of progress' do you agree with that? We played against a weakened Crystal Palace team and people are getting on their high horse because Rashford and Bruno weren't playing. Quite frankly if you don't realise how important those two players are and were who were two of our best players last season are and think we can get rid of them or the manager is suddenly going to drop them and this will make the team stronger then yes you are deluded. They were really 'stinking up the place' last season weren't they? I truly despair sometimes.

People just love to make cheap exaggerating comments for cheap likes on social media.

 

[Stacks]

The club is not going to sack ETH. They have already invested 400 million in him. The next manager will probably want someone better than Antony, more experienced than Hojlund, younger than Casemiro, faster than Martinez, more reliable than Onana, and so on, so it will be like starting over.

all true but that hasn't stopped us before and is our formula

 

[astracrazy]

But at the same time, we're only 4 consecutive PL wins away from being back in the title race.

It would pump us up the table, sure, but you do realise that's not quiet how it works...

 

[erikcred]

We are at least 4 years away from being in a title race

I was being tongue in cheek, but 4 years is too long. There's no way ETH is in the job if it takes him another 3/4 years to just be in a title race. And if we have a new manager the timer resets anyway.

 

[erikcred]

It would pump us up the table, sure, but you do realise that's not quiet how it works...

Of course, I was exaggerating. But my point is that one of those 4 is against City and if we win all four including that, the optimism will be back. In that sense we would be "back in the race". Not necessarily in terms of points, as so many have kindly pointed out.

 

[AltiUn]

I was being tongue in cheek, but 4 years is too long. There's no way ETH is in the job if it takes him another 3/4 years to just be in a title race. And if we have a new manager the timer resets anyway.

If you're not challenging or at least on the verge of challenging by year 3 then you'll likely be gone.

 

[fezzerUTD]

The tweet called them 'enemies of progress' do you agree with that? We played against a weakened Crystal Palace team and people are getting on their high horse because Rashford and Bruno weren't playing. Quite frankly if you don't realise how important those two players are and were who were two of our best players last season are and think we can get rid of them or the manager is suddenly going to drop them and this will make the team stronger then yes you are deluded. They were really 'stinking up the place' last season weren't they? I truly despair sometimes.

I dont agree with enemies of progress no, it’s not their fault the manager picks them. More the fact people having an opinion where Bruno and Rashford arent the b all and end all.

Regarding the stinking the place, i do feel Bruno against Liverpool was his true colours, an absolute joke, he does that regular when things go against him, his behaviour was terrible for a player who was coincidentally poor on the day (many days against top clubs).

On Rashford. It was no coincidence that his contract was coming up for renewal so imo he started to put the effort in. Along with the rest he got during the world cup because he wasnt good enough to start for England either.

I also think you don’t shoe horn your best attacking threat (Bruno based on everyone else opinion) out to the right and nullify him do you if he is in the managers opinion the best player. Bruno imo has some credit with ten hag and more of the same of his behaviour when the team starts properly (if it ever does with him in the side) ticking, he won’t be as forgiving.

 

[astracrazy]

Of course, I was exaggerating. But my point is that one of those 4 is against City and if we win all four including that, the optimism will be back. In that sense we would be "back in the race". Not necessarily in terms of points, as so many have kindly pointed out.

Sounds like you're back tracking to me.......

 

[Redstain]

If you are calling the club captain and two of our best players, the 'enemies of progress' then you can well and truly feck off. Why can't people just enjoy the fecking win instead of posting shite such as this and having a dig at our players. It's like a fecking disease around here.

There are valid concerns around Bruno's influence in the phases of play over chance creation. Bruno is the best player in the squad when it comes to chances created but he's arguably one of the worst in the phases of play due to his concentration and the amount of times he loses possession. It's the only area of criticism I feel is warranted when you assess his performances over 90 mins consistently.

 

[Strelok]

If you're not challenging or at least on the verge of challenging by year 3 then you'll likely be gone.

Tbh I don't think we're that ambitious. Things might change if we have new owner else a top 4 and he's safe imo.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Your post makes zero sense, harping on about DNA, Where did I say being club captain makes you world class? He's been one of our best players for a while now. So you think dropping two of our best and senior players including our club captain will make us a better team just because we managed to beat a weakened Crystal Palace team and will suddenly make us evolve into a team winning league titles and the UCL? How do you plan on replacing these players if you don't want to spend any money? The fact is the managers values the players and will use their talents.

So you think your post makes sense? Are you a "sense-meter"? For measuring sense in people's post?

Its incredible you say if I think dropping our club captain will make us better team, when Maguire is a prime example of captain being dropped and the team becomes better. Then you talk about sense.

So in your opinion if Bruno goes Greenwood or Antony way, United will fold, ETH will be sacked because 'how are we going to replace these players"

Please if you have no tangible counter arguments, just ssshhh.

As I have said, you might have your own opinion in how the club should strive to achieve success, others will have their own opinion.
And crucially, your opinion is not superior to others or heaven sent for others opinion not to make sense.
In the same breath, my opinion has ever been we need more control and structure for us to achieve genuine success. Many may not agree, but it's their opinion.

Then how do we achieve control and structure in our play, in my opinion is dropping Bruno. Many may not agree, even ETH may not agree. It's their opinion.

 

[Ubik]

Hopefully Palace are similarly toothless on Saturday and we can get a genuine comparison.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

B

Bruno is by far our best player, when Rashford isn‘t on form. We lacked creativity yesterday without him.
How did we lack creativity when we scored 3 goals. Had 69% possession. 13 goal attempts. 7 shots on target. 139 attacks.


You say we need to move away from being a transition team. I say we need to improve playing out our attacks from transitions better and we will score lots of goals.

Yes we need to move away from being a transition team. Because.

1. You can't autopilot in 38 games in EPL.
2. You can't win more than 30 games ( standard for winning the league) in EPL by being a transition team.
3. In a season of over 50+ games, adding UCL + FA cup you will need control, game management, plan, patterns etc to navigate all the season.

About improving attacks, is easiest way to score more goals is when you over load and attack in numbers ( read the cut backs) for you to do this consistently you have to attack in blocks, not in individuals. You know why Rashford is selfish is because he has not trained in any other way for the last few years. It's always ball over the top for rashford to chase and create a moment. This style against superior teams/equal teams is extremely unsustainable. You wonder why we don't win away from home this is 1 culprit.



We don‘t need to switch playing style: we needed more responsibility and graft in midfield and more composure on the ball. The problem we‘ve had is that Eriksen gives us composure but lacks defensive contribution.

About switching of play, in my opinion is necessary because of sustainability.
That's why alot of people here are still confused, mad with ETH because of not having a style of play. We need a style of play because the current transition style is unsustainable even to the naked eye.
Midfield correctly is our main problem.

We can blame Eriksen but he is a free signing from Brentford. Even before Eriksen we used to play transition football. We used to leak goals and get overrun. So as much as Eriksen has played 1 season for us, we can't pin blame on him being the face of our play

The solution is Amrabat and hopefully Mainoo when he comes back.

Read my comment about Amrabat in July. I said he will be the best signing for us together with Mount.

But Amrabat is a loan signing, Mainoo is academy graduate they can't shift our play, if the manager is not willing to change how we play. ETH needs balls to achieve a modern consistent football.

We aren‘t going to be a possession team and certainly aren‘t getting rid of Bruno, that‘s madness.

You can't be sure mate. Don't say with finality.

But a fact is, something has to give, the way we play can't win us trophies.
We've already lost 3 PL games after 6 games played. City lost 5 games last season to win the league. Arsenal 6 games. 38 games after.

When we won the CL in 2008,we went unbeaten the whole campaign in CL. City last season won the CL unbeaten also. Bayern 2020 also.

As you can see, it's not about winning some games, but it's about not losing games.

We lose games so frequent that it shows we can't win anything big.

So the question should be, how do we stop losing so many games? How? Answer that and it will be extremely easy to see what to do to achieve success.

 

[TheGame]

I dont agree with enemies of progress no, it’s not their fault the manager picks them. More the fact people having an opinion where Bruno and Rashford arent the b all and end all.

Regarding the stinking the place, i do feel Bruno against Liverpool was his true colours, an absolute joke, he does that regular when things go against him, his behaviour was terrible for a player who was coincidentally poor on the day (many days against top clubs).

On Rashford. It was no coincidence that his contract was coming up for renewal so imo he started to put the effort in. Along with the rest he got during the world cup because he wasnt good enough to start for England either.

I also think you don’t shoe horn your best attacking threat (Bruno based on everyone else opinion) out to the right and nullify him do you if he is in the managers opinion the best player. Bruno imo has some credit with ten hag and more of the same of his behaviour when the team starts properly (if it ever does with him in the side) ticking, he won’t be as forgiving.

Having opinions are fine, cheap digs are not. I can see where people are coming from, they are entitled to their opinion. I'm of the belief they are two of our most important players and last season underlines that. As for Rashford not starting for England, I really wouldn't read too much into that with Southgate in charge.

 

[TheGame]

So you think your post makes sense? Are you a "sense-meter"? For measuring sense in people's post?

Its incredible you say if I think dropping our club captain will make us better team, when Maguire is a prime example of captain being dropped and the team becomes better. Then you talk about sense.

So in your opinion if Bruno goes Greenwood or Antony way, United will fold, ETH will be sacked because 'how are we going to replace these players"

Please if you have no tangible counter arguments, just ssshhh.

As I have said, you might have your own opinion in how the club should strive to achieve success, others will have their own opinion.
And crucially, your opinion is not superior to others or heaven sent for others opinion not to make sense.
In the same breath, my opinion has ever been we need more control and structure for us to achieve genuine success. Many may not agree, but it's their opinion.

Then how do we achieve control and structure in our play, in my opinion is dropping Bruno. Many may not agree, even ETH may not agree. It's their opinion.

I'm really lost now and I might as well be talking to a brick wall. You seem insistent on comparing Bruno with Maguire even though that's two different players and scenarios. You want to drop both players but don't want to spend any money. You think dropping them will help us win the PL and UCL. You then are referring to some hypothetical arguments with Greenwood and Antony. If you are going to make an argument, at least make a competent one.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

It’s not impossible for Bruno and Rashford to be hindrances for a more effective system even though they were the best players last season. We’ve seen this with Ronaldo. That said, there were a few more factors that could have had more impact to our dominant performance. Amrabat, Mount and Varane return from injury, Casemiro return to form, Palace playing their B team, Palace playing a low block, Palace just being shit.

Players returning from injury is going to open some interesting possibilities to how we play. I think with a fit squad, there’s enough quality to play a possession game or high pressing transition game or whatever it is. I just hope ETH keeps an open mind and doesn’t stick to a system or players when it’s not working

 

[fezzerUTD]

Having opinions are fine, cheap digs are not. I can see where people are coming from, they are entitled to their opinion. I'm of the belief they are two of our most important players and last season underlines that. As for Rashford not starting for England, I really wouldn't read too much into that with Southgate in charge.

It’s because he doesn’t do what’s asked of him. If he did, he would play. He isn’t some Messi type or Mbappe where they’re allowed to do as they please for their international teams as simply he‘s not good enough to get away with it.

 

[TheGame]

It’s because he doesn’t do what’s asked of him. If he did, he would play. He isn’t some Messi type or Mbappe where they’re allowed to do as they please for their international teams as simply he‘s not good enough to get away with it.

Nah as far as Southgate is concerned, he picks his favourites. It's not just Rashford who has that issue/

 

[fezzerUTD]

Nah as far as Southgate is concerned, he picks his favourites. It's not just Rashford who has that issue/

Because you have more posts than me, I will agree.

 

[RuudTom83]

7 Wins and the noise around the club will be nice and quiet.

2 down 5 to go...

Burnley - Won
Palace - Won
Palace -
Galatasaray -
Brentford -
Sheffield -
Kobenhavn -

 

[quadrant]

Bruno is by far our best player, when Rashford isn‘t on form. We lacked creativity yesterday without him.
How did we lack creativity when we scored 3 goals. Had 69% possession. 13 goal attempts. 7 shots on target. 139 attacks.


You say we need to move away from being a transition team. I say we need to improve playing out our attacks from transitions better and we will score lots of goals.

Yes we need to move away from being a transition team. Because.

1. You can't autopilot in 38 games in EPL.
2. You can't win more than 30 games ( standard for winning the league) in EPL by being a transition team.
3. In a season of over 50+ games, adding UCL + FA cup you will need control, game management, plan, patterns etc to navigate all the season.

About improving attacks, is easiest way to score more goals is when you over load and attack in numbers ( read the cut backs) for you to do this consistently you have to attack in blocks, not in individuals. You know why Rashford is selfish is because he has not trained in any other way for the last few years. It's always ball over the top for rashford to chase and create a moment. This style against superior teams/equal teams is extremely unsustainable. You wonder why we don't win away from home this is 1 culprit.



We don‘t need to switch playing style: we needed more responsibility and graft in midfield and more composure on the ball. The problem we‘ve had is that Eriksen gives us composure but lacks defensive contribution.

About switching of play, in my opinion is necessary because of sustainability.
That's why alot of people here are still confused, mad with ETH because of not having a style of play. We need a style of play because the current transition style is unsustainable even to the naked eye.
Midfield correctly is our main problem.

We can blame Eriksen but he is a free signing from Brentford. Even before Eriksen we used to play transition football. We used to leak goals and get overrun. So as much as Eriksen has played 1 season for us, we can't pin blame on him being the face of our play

The solution is Amrabat and hopefully Mainoo when he comes back.

Read my comment about Amrabat in July. I said he will be the best signing for us together with Mount.

But Amrabat is a loan signing, Mainoo is academy graduate they can't shift our play, if the manager is not willing to change how we play. ETH needs balls to achieve a modern consistent football.

We aren‘t going to be a possession team and certainly aren‘t getting rid of Bruno, that‘s madness.

You can't be sure mate. Don't say with finality.

But a fact is, something has to give, the way we play can't win us trophies.
We've already lost 3 PL games after 6 games played. City lost 5 games last season to win the league. Arsenal 6 games. 38 games after.

When we won the CL in 2008,we went unbeaten the whole campaign in CL. City last season won the CL unbeaten also. Bayern 2020 also.

As you can see, it's not about winning some games, but it's about not losing games.

We lose games so frequent that it shows we can't win anything big.

So the question should be, how do we stop losing so many games? How? Answer that and it will be extremely easy to see what to do to achieve success.

I'm confused by this post. You say you can't win the PL by being a transition team, but the best transition team of the last few years was Liverpool, who won the PL and CL (and probably have won more but for the ludicrous standards set by Pep). Chelsea under Tuchel were also very much focussed on transitions, and they won the CL. So I don't know why you'd say you can't win like that. If you think that the more dogmatic possession focussed game of Arteta and Pep is a better bet overall for log term success, fair enough, that's a good debate to have. But to say you cannot win as a transitional team?

I feel like maybe you're conflating being a counter attacking team with being a transitional team? Counter attacking (in the sense of turning the ball over in mid or deep positions and covering a large chunk of the field quickly to create an attack) is indeed one part of transitional football, but is certainly not all it entails.