Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[philippexyz]

I think we should "tank" this next Carabao Cup game against Palace - rest the key players and try some younger, newer, or crappier ones.

Rest Bruno, Hojlund, Varane, Lisandro, Casemiro, Rashford. Or give them max 30 minutes, like a more intense, shorter training session. Especially Hojlund, since his minutes need to be carefully managed(load management) because of that potential back issues stuff.

We have to play the only two fullbacks we have available(Dalot and Regulion), that is going to absolutely kill us this year until Shaw, Wan-Bissaka come back two months from now. Plus Malacia, don't know what's happening with him, haven't heard anything about him in ages.

Start the two between Evans, Maguire, Lindelof. Then Amrabat, Hannibal, Eriksen/McTominay or maybe Mount if he's ready for some minutes. Pellistri and Garnacho on the wings(full game for both of them, definitely) and then try to force Martial to play full 90 minutes(I know it sounds impossible). If not substitute him for Rashford at around usual 60th minute mark. We can try the new Turkish goalkeeper(Bayindir) also, but I wouldn't mind seeing Onana, I guess - it's the same for me.

Losing this game would be pretty insignificant considering all the on and off the pitch issues we have at the moment. We won that trophy already last season, anyway. If we win this game, great, whatever. Then match we have against this same very opponent(on the same stadium even) on Saturday is much, much more significant. Then, we go full strength.

But I suspect that ETH is not going to do what I suggested above and he's going to go full strength, totally unnecessarily and he's going to piss me of. Which could make injury crisis that we have even worse than it already is, if it's even realistically possible(theoretically sure is...).

 

[fergiewherearethou]

Up until the Brighton game (last time I saw stat posted) we won the ball back in the final third (plus pressing sequences whatever that’s worth) more than any other side in the league.
See how fandom can colour our perception of games?

My perception could be altered as I do not study the stats in depth but I still think that our pressing is ineffective in comparison to other teams that are very dangerous when getting the ball back.

 

[Buster15]

My biggest gripe about Ten Hag is we are still playing the dour football we did under previous managers in the past decade.

He hasn't got us playing as well as Ole did, which will be extremely concerning if it's still the case at the end of the season.

I think we ought to judge when the majority of the injured players are back.

 

[Zed is not dead]

I think we should "tank" this next Carabao Cup game against Palace - rest the key players and try some younger, newer, or crappier ones.

Rest Bruno, Hojlund, Varane, Lisandro, Casemiro, Rashford. Or give them max 30 minutes, like a more intense, shorter training session. Especially Hojlund, since his minutes need to be carefully managed(load management) because of that potential back issues stuff.

We have to play the only two fullbacks we have available(Dalot and Regulion), that is going to absolutely kill us this year until Shaw, Wan-Bissaka come back two months from now. Plus Malacia, don't know what's happening with him, haven't heard anything about him in ages. Is he even alive, retired, I have no clue?

Start the two between Evans, Maguire, Lindelof. Then Amrabat, Hannibal, Eriksen/McTominay or maybe Mount if he's ready for some minutes. Pellistri and Garnacho on the wings(full game for both of them, definitely) and then try to force Martial to play full 90 minutes(I know it sounds impossible). If not substitute him for Rashford at around usual 60th minute mark. We can try the new Turkish goalkeeper(Bayindir) also, but I wouldn't mind seeing Onana, I guess - it's the same for me.

Losing this game would be pretty insignificant considering all the on and off the pitch issues we have at the moment. We won that trophy already last season, anyway. If we win this game, great, whatever. Then match we have against this same very opponent(on the same stadium even) on Saturday is much, much more significant. Then, we go full strength.

But I suspect that ETH is not going to do what I suggested above and he's going to go full strength, totally unnecessarily and he's going to piss me of. Which could make injury crisis that we have even worse than it already is, if it's even realistically possible(theoretically sure is...).

It’s not totally unnecessary. This team is in dire need of confidence, and you gain confidence by winning games.
After a painful win against Burnley, a loss to Crystal Palace, even with a youth team in the Carabao, would lower morale of the team.
In an ideal situation, yeah we would be able to have some turnover in the team for the game, but we’re already obligated to play our 2nd/3rd choice players. More turnover would mean simply playing our U23 team.

If anything, this cup game would be perfect to give some minutes to players returning from injury

 

[NLunited]

You see. Look at this. This is a playing strategy, right? Playing quickly? Pressing?

Like Brighton? Liverpool? Brentford? Citeh? Villa? Tottenham do all these things... I'm sure I could go on. All of these teams reflect the description you have given..

Watch what happens when Onana gets the ball, with time. We don't even seem sure how to get ourselves going at times, the game against Burnley was painful to watch at times.

Your comment about Bruno's goal was interesting. That's a plan, right? Even though Bruno rarely actually plays in this position.

It's a great goal, inspired and stunning in its execution. But don't tell me that's 'how' Man Utd play. Most teams seek that cross field ball... look at Kyle Walker at City, he's been making that run for years.

We're still finding an identity, it's obvious. Look at our performances. Do we look like we know how we are going to play?

I support ETH, but even he can't be satisfied with what's being seen. It's piecemeal, unclear and we are still finding form. Theres nothing wrong with admitting that.

I actually think back to our performance at Arsenal last year, where I felt we played some terrific, organised, attractive football.. dangerous, kept possession well, controlled the tempo of the game in significant periods against a v good side. I watched that and thought ' we have something here..'

I don't see that, yet, this season. I hope the Burnley result may relax the players and we will see more of a ln identity, a consistency to our game.

He needs to play Garnacho more often.

You think we can play our best with Saturday‘s available squad?

Clearly the plan was to let Burnley play their game, while we take advantage of the space they give away. We did that by forcing turnovers while they were trying to play through us with full backs pushed high, and the long ball behind their high line. It worked too, except for us not taking full advantage of a couple of dangerous attacks.

With more players returning from injury we should be able to get back to the sort of performance we saw against Spurs in the first half. This season.

I don‘t care a flying feck whether we control the tempo at this point, controlling the game is more important. The team that creates the best chances is in control.

 

[Zed is not dead]

My perception could be altered as I do not study the stats in depth but I still think that our pressing is ineffective in comparison to other teams that are very dangerous when getting the ball back.

Well you’re both right. We get the ball back a lot but we fail to score.
Same as last season, we’re really underperforming on our xG, but contrary to last season, we’re now conceding more than our xGA.
If anything, the way we play should be fruitful, but for a combination of factors - injuries, off field issues, game changing events going against us, and to put it simply a clear lack of luck - we’re not capitalising on it

 

[Jeffthered]

Good post.
EtH has said repeatedly that the players are not doing what he wants from them.
That could be a communication issue or it could be that they are just not capable of doing it. Or most likely a combination.

I have long said that United simply don't operate like a team. Players far too often become isolated with the ball and just don't posess the skills to pass and move and keep the ball moving. Far too easy to pass back or sideways.

Absolutely right. And it's now being raised, across media, pundits, (some) fans... and I have little doubt, amongst the players. ETH has enough v good players there to make us a good team, not title-winning, but a strong, consistent team, playing attractive football that regularly produces chances (and hopefully, goals). He needs to make that happen, and I really worry about how he is seeing this situation, because he strikes me as quite, quite single-minded.

 

[El Jefe]

Maybe because we have been shit for years now and this season is no exception. Sorry to hurt your feelings.

See this is something I’ve never quite understood on here. Of course there will be posters that appear negative in nature seeing how bad we’ve been over the last decade.

Anytime the mood has been positive we’ve crash landed back to reality within weeks or months.

The ‘moaners’ have been far more correct in their position over the seasons than those who accuse others of just being moaners.

It would make sense if we were Aston Villa but we’re Manchester United. What others call moaning is what I call having high standards and the second we stop demanding that level of excellence is when we’re finished as a top club.

Of course there can be OTT negativity but right now, it’s all justified.

 

[Jeffthered]

You think we can play our best with Saturday‘s available squad?

Clearly the plan was to let Burnley play their game, while we take advantage of the space they give away. We did that by forcing turnovers while they were trying to play through us with full backs pushed high, and the long ball behind their high line. It worked too, except for us not taking full advantage of a couple of dangerous attacks.

With more players returning from injury we should be able to get back to the sort of performance we saw against Spurs in the first half. This season.

I don‘t care a flying feck whether we control the tempo at this point, controlling the game is more important. The team that creates the best chances is in control.

Controlling the tempo of a game is controlling a game. You can actually control the tempo of a game without the ball. Look at Chelsea under Mourinho, they weren't a side playing teams of the park.

You're trying to make this far more technical than what it is. We were abject for much of the match against Burnley, and if you're suggesting that was an ETH 'game-plan' then that's up to you. Because I couldn't see it.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ue-10-talking-points-from-the-weekends-action Read the 5th 'talking point'. It's all subjective, but I think the journo' has a point.

 

[DWelbz19]

There was a 15 minutes spell in the second half (approximately 70 minutes to 85 minutes) where Burnley had 90% possession.

Read that again... 90% possession for a whole 15 minutes.

Not even prime Barcelona did that to us in '09 or '11

Erik ten Hag's in game management is very concerning. How can we be under pressure for so long, and Ten Hag not do anything to address it.

There are serious question marks about our manager.

That's actually mad.

 

[Sarni]

I think we should "tank" this next Carabao Cup game against Palace - rest the key players and try some younger, newer, or crappier ones.

Rest Bruno, Hojlund, Varane, Lisandro, Casemiro, Rashford. Or give them max 30 minutes, like a more intense, shorter training session. Especially Hojlund, since his minutes need to be carefully managed(load management) because of that potential back issues stuff.

We have to play the only two fullbacks we have available(Dalot and Regulion), that is going to absolutely kill us this year until Shaw, Wan-Bissaka come back two months from now. Plus Malacia, don't know what's happening with him, haven't heard anything about him in ages.

Start the two between Evans, Maguire, Lindelof. Then Amrabat, Hannibal, Eriksen/McTominay or maybe Mount if he's ready for some minutes. Pellistri and Garnacho on the wings(full game for both of them, definitely) and then try to force Martial to play full 90 minutes(I know it sounds impossible). If not substitute him for Rashford at around usual 60th minute mark. We can try the new Turkish goalkeeper(Bayindir) also, but I wouldn't mind seeing Onana, I guess - it's the same for me.

Losing this game would be pretty insignificant considering all the on and off the pitch issues we have at the moment. We won that trophy already last season, anyway. If we win this game, great, whatever. Then match we have against this same very opponent(on the same stadium even) on Saturday is much, much more significant. Then, we go full strength.

But I suspect that ETH is not going to do what I suggested above and he's going to go full strength, totally unnecessarily and he's going to piss me of. Which could make injury crisis that we have even worse than it already is, if it's even realistically possible(theoretically sure is...).

We should definitely go with a weakened side against Palace in the cup but judging by our rotation policy last year I'd expect the strongest possible team, or at least see 6-7 first team players out there (there should be none).

 

[NLunited]

Controlling the tempo of a game is controlling a game. You can actually control the tempo of a game without the ball. Look at Chelsea under Mourinho, they weren't a side playing teams of the park.

You're trying to make this far more technical than what it is. We were abject for much of the match against Burnley, and if you're suggesting that was an ETH 'game-plan' then that's up to you. Because I couldn't see it.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ue-10-talking-points-from-the-weekends-action Read the 5th 'talking point'. It's all subjective, but I think the journo' has a point.

If you can‘t identify the gameplan against Burnley, that‘s on you. It was clear as day.

They weren‘t able to play through our press mostly, in that sense we controlled the game.

The few times Burnley got dangerous were due to individual mistakes. Their first chance was because Marcus didn‘t track back. The ball on the post because there was a huge hole on right side/midfield that no one covered.

You have to differentiate between tactics and individual performances. Often that is hard to do, but not this time.

 

[cyberman]

My perception could be altered as I do not study the stats in depth but I still think that our pressing is ineffective in comparison to other teams that are very dangerous when getting the ball back.

That’s because we didn’t have the
Structure behind the pressing in place yet so Casemiro was left alone sometimes 3v1 through midfield. It’s just not true that we don’t know how to win the ball back

 

[Gycraig]

See this is something I’ve never quite understood on here. Of course there will be posters that appear negative in nature seeing how bad we’ve been over the last decade.

Anytime the mood has been positive we’ve crash landed back to reality within weeks or months.

The ‘moaners’ have been far more correct in their position over the seasons than those who accuse others of just being moaners.

It would make sense if we were Aston Villa but we’re Manchester United. What others call moaning is what I call having high standards and the second we stop demanding that level of excellence is when we’re finished as a top club.

Of course there can be OTT negativity but right now, it’s all justified.

You think the glazers care about fans having “high standards” ?

United used to be world class we aren’t anymore constantly moaning as if we won the treble last season and are shit now all of a sudden.

 

[RedUnited86]

Any reason Postecoglu, whilst no longer having their talisman, has been able to transform Spurs into a really well functioning team that's capable of scoring goals in a couple of months, whilst we're still all over the shop?

 

[Gordon Godot]

That's actually mad.

Tend to agree.We simply cant retain the ball when we get it, even against poor opposition

 

[Jeffthered]

If you can‘t identify the gameplan against Burnley, that‘s on you. It was clear as day.

They weren‘t able to play through our press mostly, in that sense we controlled the game.

The few times Burnley got dangerous were due to individual mistakes. Their first chance was because Marcus didn‘t track back. The ball on the post because there was a huge hole on right side/midfield that no one covered.

You have to differentiate between tactics and individual performances. Often that is hard to do, but not this time.

Ok, well let's agree to disagree on that one. But let's suggest that the way we played against Burnley, was a game plan, what does that tell you about ETH as a manager and tactician? Burnley are bottom of the league ok. Do you think Brighton, Spurs (now), Citeh of course, even Newcastle etc etc, would go to Burnley, and adapt how they (Brighton, Spurs etc..) play? You think any of those managers play against Burnley and change the way they play? If, if they do, it will be marginal, and why? Because they have a game plan, an identity. I knew how Spurs would play against Arsenal. I know how Liverpool will play in their next game. I know how Citeh will play in their next ten games, regardless of opposition, home or away.

And Man Utd?

If you're stating that ETH had a game plan against Burnley, then I can expect that for the rest of the season, right? Or does his game-plan change from game to game? (which supports my whole point..) Because that fantastic first 30mins against Tottenham (which just faded...), wasn't similar to how we played against Burnley.

We were average for most of the game against Burnley, again, this happens and we just needed the win, and that's great! But to suggest that this was part of an emerging ETH 'identity' for how Man Utd play is, imo, mistaken.

 

[VP89]

Any reason Postecoglu, whilst no longer having their talisman, has been able to transform Spurs into a really well functioning team that's capable of scoring goals in a couple of months, whilst we're still all over the shop?

Because you're judging a manager after 6 games, which is an incredibly silly thing to do.

You'd think people learn after the Mourinho, Conte stints. But no, they still suffer some sort of memory loss and pose weird questions.

 

[Skills]

I think we ought to judge when the majority of the injured players are back.

But then it'll be winter, and obviously nobody can play good football when the pitches are shit.

Then it'll be the fixture congestion - how's he meant to train the squad when he's got 2 games a week.

Then 2024 is a leap year, and we all know that adds another complication.

 

[astracrazy]

Good post.
EtH has said repeatedly that the players are not doing what he wants from them.
That could be a communication issue or it could be that they are just not capable of doing it. Or most likely a combination.

Then they are either thick or lazy - or maybe both.

 

[evil_geko]

So many people using Ange as example how manager can implement his style straight away, you never learn do you? Let's get back to great Ange after half a season or something. I saw this about so many managers and people never learn.

 

[erikcred]

But then it'll be winter, and obviously nobody can play good football when the pitches are shit.

Then it'll be the fixture congestion - how's he meant to train the squad when he's got 2 games a week.

Then 2024 is a leap year, and we all know that adds another complication.

Sounds silly, but we're not far off this type of justification if ETH doesn't start reeling off some wins.

 

[Hanky panky]

I think Rashford will find his form later, just like last year. He is typical hot or cold player. Needs couple of goals and thats it. And Hojlund will adapt better. I like Hojlunds runs and i believe he will start to score sooner or later. Then thing im the most worried is midfield. Even teams like Burnley and Wolves seems to control midfield against us. Have to hope somebody will break big from trio Mejbri, Amrabat and Mainoo. Last one later when he´s healthy. Defend will be ok when we get our regular starters back.

 

[astracrazy]

I think we should "tank" this next Carabao Cup game against Palace - rest the key players and try some younger, newer, or crappier ones.

Rest...

Normally I would agree with you, maybe not tank the game but 100% rotate.

But we are in a unique situation:
- The team needs confidence. We need to build on the win from the weekend, not take the air out of it. If we were on a winning streak it would be different, but we aren't.
- We still aren't playing well and things need working on. Another match gives us the opportunity to achieve this, again, swapping out a load of players will just take the air out of any progress.
- It's safe to say that even at this point of the season our signings are no where near integrated into the team, it would be pointless delaying that any further by not playing them.

 

[Ayoba]

I think we should "tank" this next Carabao Cup game against Palace - rest the key players and try some younger, newer, or crappier ones.

But its our only chance to get any sort of silverware, provided City get knocked out. And Liverpool. And Arsenal. And possibly spurs too.

Hmmm you maybe right here...

 

[Superden]

watching other teams, when they have the ball at the back, it looks like they have 4 or 5 pre planned moves they can do to progress the ball. doesnt always work, but you see it in the movement of the players. with our lot, its just seems off the cuff, or completely dependent on the opposition making moves to free up space - exhibit A, Onana just waiting with his foot on the ball for something to happen.... surely ETH has had long enough to sort that out.

 

[IncyWincySpider]

watching other teams, when they have the ball at the back, it looks like they have 4 or 5 pre planned moves they can do to progress the ball. doesnt always work, but you see it in the movement of the players. with our lot, its just seems off the cuff, or completely dependent on the opposition making moves to free up space - exhibit A, Onana just waiting with his foot on the ball for something to happen.... surely ETH has had long enough to sort that out.

Onana standing with his foot on the ball and his hands on his hips is a very fitting image of where we're at as a club, I think.

 

[AlexUTD]

Think i know who might been leaking information out of the dressing room. I think he might have friends who have a bad influence.

 

[Rightnr]

Remember when Fergie told them (including Rooney) "hit Van Persie or you're dropped."? Maybe we should try that with the new lad for a couple of games.

These lot would just throw their toys out the pram and start leaking to the press how they’re sick of ETH’s methods.

Exactly. Imagine Mr Children Feeder being told he's not the main man?

He's already throwing hissy fits on the pitch as it is but having to feed the 20-year-old newcomer? No chance and he'll show his speed in no time sprinting to Arnold to complain about unfair treatment.

 

[fezzerUTD]

So many people using Ange as example how manager can implement his style straight away, you never learn do you? Let's get back to great Ange after half a season or something. I saw this about so many managers and people never learn.

It’s Big Ange, get it right. Theres only a few that get to call him Ange. His wife I heard calls him little Ange but that’s none of my business.

 

[RedOrange]

You're trying to make this far more technical than what it is. We were abject for much of the match against Burnley, and if you're suggesting that was an ETH 'game-plan' then that's up to you. Because I couldn't see it.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ue-10-talking-points-from-the-weekends-action Read the 5th 'talking point'. It's all subjective, but I think the journo' has a point.

Jamie Jackson is an idiot who knows nothing about football. Every manager changes the tactics based on their players available, the opposing manager, opposing players available, etc. Jackson writes that Guardiola would never do it, but Guardiola famously does it for big CL matches. He has even joked about it in press conferences.

 

[Ish]

Because you're judging a manager after 6 games, which is an incredibly silly thing to do.

You'd think people learn after the Mourinho, Conte stints. But no, they still suffer some sort of memory loss and pose weird questions.

Yep

 

[Keanes Magic Hat]

He has got 6 very winnable games to build momentum and confidence before the city game. If we can win all those (easier said than done) the narrative around the club and him will change.

Despite the deficiencies in our squad no excuse for not performing well in those games with lesser squads. I have faith he will get us on the right path.

 

[the_cliff]

My perception could be altered as I do not study the stats in depth but I still think that our pressing is ineffective in comparison to other teams that are very dangerous when getting the ball back.

That's our problem. Against Forest, Spurs and Wolves we pressed effectively and won the ball back in the opposing teams final third often enough.

The problem is more to do with our attackers decision making once we've won the ball in those areas. To summarise we have pressed effectively this season, but have not took advantage of our press effectively...

 

[sglowrider]

Arturo Vidal savages Erik ten Hag for 'coming in badly' at Man United by dropping Cristiano Ronaldo and 'leaving a mess' - as he claims 'the bald guys are very complicated'


Who knew? The ol' Baldie Dick Energy.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Think i know who might been leaking information out of the dressing room. I think he might have friends who have a bad influence.

One down. One to go.

 

[The Firestarter]

Think i know who might been leaking information out of the dressing room. I think he might have friends who have a bad influence.

Sancho looks like he is drilling into his nose for natural resources.

 

[Freak]

Think i know who might been leaking information out of the dressing room. I think he might have friends who have a bad influence.

Oh boy..

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Think i know who might been leaking information out of the dressing room. I think he might have friends who have a bad influence.

I don't see the problem here? Sancho is just spending time with a United legend. He was with the club when he was a boy, you know.

 

[Buster15]

But then it'll be winter, and obviously nobody can play good football when the pitches are shit.

Then it'll be the fixture congestion - how's he meant to train the squad when he's got 2 games a week.

Then 2024 is a leap year, and we all know that adds another complication.

Didn't realise that the playing surfaces became shit in the winter any more.
But I see this was irony.