Yeah but Jose was known for that so it wasnt a surprise. We got Ten Hag in to improve our football too. But we are playing the same type of football if not worse with even worse players its no wonder we can barely score.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Yeah but Jose was known for that so it wasnt a surprise. We got Ten Hag in to improve our football too. But we are playing the same type of football if not worse with even worse players its no wonder we can barely score.
I mean…anyone can tell you last season because it happened… we reverted to direct football for the most part after the terrible start and whilst I think you can point to the odd moment here and there we looked like there were new ideas, over the grand scheme of a season we haven’t really changed since Mourinho 2nd season.
BIG difference this season and the reason, bar a clear issue with pre season and obvious injuries, is ETH seems to think we’re ready to move to two 8’s (which in reality is 1 x 8 and 1 x 10 in Bruno). Will it work? Jury is out and I’m dubious with Bruno as one of those players but at least we’re trying to modernise in my opinion.
You pick 5 players and you think that makes a point.
I hate these replies, snarky with no value. How about you argue the 5 players first then il carry on with the rest of the team.
My point was the football was shit with Jose but he had players that could polish the turd. With Ten Hag the footballs crap but there isnt as many players at his disposal to change that. So he needs to work on making the team play better as a unit.
We definitely have better players now. I'm not even sure how that's arguable. If you think our players are worse individually now, you should want the entire recruitment team sacked on the spot considering the $$$ spent.
Rashford is better than any attacker Jose had. Bruno for United is better than Pogba for United was. De Gea then is inarguably better than Onana though, but he still has the same flaws as the De Gea of last season. He just masks it with incredible shot-stopping ability. Not sure if ETH would concede his flaws for much better shot-stopping ability. Debatable.
Our entire back 4 is better now. We're not using former wingers as 1st-choice full-backs. Shaw, Licha, Varane and AWB(maybe you can argue for Valencia over AWB). Dalot as well would likely feature a good amount then. Even Malacia/Reguillon are better emergency options than what we had then. Maguire is 5th choice center-back and Jose wanted him in the first XI. We also have the option to use Shaw as a center-back which is better than anything Jose had then too. You can't bring up Shaw for Mourinho, because he barely played him and he was constantly undermined by Jose himself.
Pogba has more talent than Bruno, but there isn't really a debate who's been better for the club if you take their performances at United only into account. I will concede that Martial is better than he is now, but Jose got in Sanchez after Martial was in pretty good form, and then Martial featured much less + his performances dropped.
Heavily disagree that Herrera walks into this current team with ease, because Mount's a better player than him, but he would be a good option from the bench. There's not much difference between Fred/Herrera though and ETH was happy to let Fred leave.
I think Mata is a better player than Antony, but not for this team.
Arguing for Mkhi seems disingenuous when Jose shunted him out immediately in his 2nd season despite some EL 'heroics' and he was pretty disappointing as a player in his time here.
ETH has better players. We've just got the same as problem as we've had post-SAF. We're not a team that's more than the sum of their parts.
We are relying a lot on individual brilliance rather then team play and build up it feels but weather that is down to ETH feeling he does not have the players to play what he wants or players ignoring tactics and instructions or something else I do not know
The lack of goals is a concern. 58 goals last season, Leicester went down and they scored 51, Brighton scored 72 in comparison.
It isn't just down to a lack of a striker, the midfield and wide players get nowhere near scoring enough goals.
It isn't just down to a lack of a striker, the midfield and wide players get nowhere near scoring enough goals.
The reason why Garnacho didnt came on:
Did we really play well?
Did we really play well?
I actually agree with him. A lot of people here seem to think we should've made changes but they didn't have a sniff the whole second half, they didn't have a decent chance the whole second half. We got the result in the end and that's what was needed.
We are in a bad rut, we'll get back there in time. Worst thing to do would be panic and rip it all up.
We had no control and we didn't play well. If Burnley were any decent side with any l sort of goal threat, we would have been punished (see Wolves where we go away with it and that was at home).
You cannot just concede the initiative and provide no attacking threat away in the PL because you'll get punished for it. Surely, even EtH does not agree with this logic, since he brought on Garnacho against Arsenal which would have won us the game in all likelihood, were it not for the feckless VAR decision.
We've a few games coming up which are winnable, some players should be back as well over the next couple of weeks let's see how we go.
We're not capable.
Why the lack of goals? I believe it is due to teamwork and chemistry. Players are selfish at United, especially Rashford and Antony. Our front 3 are not playing for one another. Rashford always tries to score instead of passing and so do Antony. Casemiro seems to score more than Bruno nowadays. Lastly, we hardly score for set pieces. We don't score how much from freekick and corners. We need a settle front 3 and midfield for a prolong period then goals will flow.
Remember when Fergie told them (including Rooney) "hit Van Persie or you're dropped."? Maybe we should try that with the new lad for a couple of games.
These lot would just throw their toys out the pram and start leaking to the press how they’re sick of ETH’s methods.
Holjund hasn't shown the freak-level clinicality we saw with peak RVP... YET
57 the season before, it's an ongoing problem. It seems we've had a pretty ordinary/low total for years now and gone are the days of around 80 goals in a league season with Sir Alex. We've actually only got past 70 goals scored just the once since he retired.
The best was Ole in 20-21 with 73 (helped significantly by a suicidal Leeds
) and a nine man Southampton IIRC.I think these next six games will tell a lot. On paper they’re decent games. If the players are behind him and believe in him these games should all be won. We should have quite a few players back for them too so naturally you’d expect an improvement in performances. If we’re still seeing shit performances and poor results in these next six games then it means the players aren’t playing for him and we’d be in the territory of them essentially forcing a change.
We did press in the majority of the game. Hojlund would split the cb‘s and cut off the pass back to gk and cb with his cover shadow. Then we would try to win it back with pressure on the ball.
Nothing wrong with this tactic: it nullifies them and makes them vulnerable too. We should have scored from turnovers once or twice at the minimum.
Pressing is not just high pressing, there are many ways to do it.
You‘ve been told repeatedly what Ten Hag wants, by himself no less. Press and attack with speed, and he wants us to become the best transition team in the world.
The Bruno goal is not a one off, we play balls like that all the time when teams defend high against us. It frequently gets us a one on one or at least a dangerous attack.
This one did drop deliciously and Bruno had the balls to try a difficult volley. Well done Evans for the pass.
We had some easier attacks to create a goal from, but fecked them up.
It’s only been six games into the new season but we have a negative G/D and I do believe that is cause for concern because we still don’t look like we are going to score many goals, and now the defence is very leaky and we keep conceding the exact same type of goal because our midfielders aren’t tracking runners into the box. Why Ten Hag hasn’t addressed that yet I don’t know, unless the players are deliberately not following instructions.
Our press are half hearted press especially from Rashford, if we don't press as a team then don't press and get 11 players behind the goals. I looked at Arsenal versus Spurs, the players were right up in the Spurs players and almost won the ball over. If we cannot press collectively then we will be badly expose in defence. I just Rashford stop being lazy and learn what is the distance he should be in. I always see his lazy ass running slow and when he start closing, the ball is gone. Obviously, we have not learn anything from pressing. It has been more than a year, surely players like Rashford would know how to press but again if I am playing with him, I will be frustrated as well.
Top 5 will likely be good enough for CL
Surely you realize a midfield of Eriksen and Casemiro doesn't have the legs and so we needed Mejbri and McT and you realize they don't have the creativity (Mejbri does imo but hasnt showed it yet, and would play safe anyway in his first start). Agreed?
So you really have to wait and see how Amrabat, Mainoo and Mount work with Casemiro and Bruno before judging the team/ manager, no?
People keep bringing up the team but what about the first 3 games when Mount/Eriksen was playing with Bruno and Casemiro? Did that work because I remember us still getting outplayed. I think Amrabat will make a bit of a difference though next to Casemiro but then it’s who plays out of Eriksen and Mount in the number 10 role if we still choose to play Bruno out wide.
Saka is as good as Rashford and he even worked very hard off the ball and defensively. Just watch their match vs spurs and you will realize Rashford is lazy as feck. This primadonna "defense is beneath me" attitude needs to be fixed
Not all teams start a season flying to be fair. Something was clearly off with our preparation, but that doesn’t mean those players won’t look better when they’re all back together.
There's no sign this team is capable of thrashing anyone. More likely to be the other way round in a game soon.
Rashford may be lazy or maybe ETH himself instructed him to ease of the press in order to conserve his energy for when he has the ball, we don't know that. But the others, regardless of the effort they put in their press rarely make a difference. We cannot dispossess any opponents nor cut the passing lanes properly. Regardless of who we play against.
Spurs players managed to do just that in a matter of 2 months, we are a work in progress for 14.
You see. Look at this. This is a playing strategy, right? Playing quickly? Pressing?
Like Brighton? Liverpool? Brentford? Citeh? Villa? Tottenham do all these things... I'm sure I could go on. All of these teams reflect the description you have given..
Watch what happens when Onana gets the ball, with time. We don't even seem sure how to get ourselves going at times, the game against Burnley was painful to watch at times.
Your comment about Bruno's goal was interesting. That's a plan, right? Even though Bruno rarely actually plays in this position.
It's a great goal, inspired and stunning in its execution. But don't tell me that's 'how' Man Utd play. Most teams seek that cross field ball... look at Kyle Walker at City, he's been making that run for years.
We're still finding an identity, it's obvious. Look at our performances. Do we look like we know how we are going to play?
I support ETH, but even he can't be satisfied with what's being seen. It's piecemeal, unclear and we are still finding form. Theres nothing wrong with admitting that.
I actually think back to our performance at Arsenal last year, where I felt we played some terrific, organised, attractive football.. dangerous, kept possession well, controlled the tempo of the game in significant periods against a v good side. I watched that and thought ' we have something here..'
I don't see that, yet, this season. I hope the Burnley result may relax the players and we will see more of a ln identity, a consistency to our game.
He needs to play Garnacho more often.
Good post.
EtH has said repeatedly that the players are not doing what he wants from them.
That could be a communication issue or it could be that they are just not capable of doing it. Or most likely a combination.
I have long said that United simply don't operate like a team. Players far too often become isolated with the ball and just don't posess the skills to pass and move and keep the ball moving. Far too easy to pass back or sideways.
Up until the Brighton game (last time I saw stat posted) we won the ball back in the final third (plus pressing sequences whatever that’s worth) more than any other side in the league.
See how fandom can colour our perception of games?
The problem is the senior players. I realised that during the pre-season when the kids played during a few first half, followed the instructions and we played pretty well but in thé second half when thé senior players were coming on, you could see the différence in the style of play !
It's still early days. Maybe it's new manager bounce. We played fantastic football in Ole early days too. Things could change very quickly after one/two defeat or fatigue set in.
I'm more impressed with De Zebri. This is certainly no new manager bounce. He has surpassed all expectations.
Take away his new first choice GK, new first choice CB, new full backs and Maddison - cripple them as much as we have crippled with injuries and outside pressure of club's mismanagement and if they are running rampant as easily as they do now, then kudos to him.
If the 3 games we did give for 3 halves. Wolves was abysmal, first half against Spurs was fine as was against Forest (talking about midfield performance, we controlled the game and created multiple chances)
Now, I'm concerned too about Mount in there, don't thing it fixes things but we need to see more before we decide it doesn't work
My biggest gripe about Ten Hag is we are still playing the dour football we did under previous managers in the past decade.
He hasn't got us playing as well as Ole did, which will be extremely concerning if it's still the case at the end of the season.
He hasn't got us playing as well as Ole did, which will be extremely concerning if it's still the case at the end of the season.
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