Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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RuudTom83 said:
I think fans get hung up on this "style" or "identity" debate, to me it's just a topic used by sports channels to criticise whatever club is currently having some bad form.




Watch this for an advert of United play...it's direct, its fast, its attacking play.

Basically it's premiership football.
Click to expand...

It is an interesting video, because it truly highlights an issue instead of being an advent for how United play.

All of these goals are scored on the break and most of them after winning the ball quite far up the pitch, very few are played out of the back.

So what does this video tell us?
- United doesn't score from controlled play, they can't score from possession
- United has to win the ball quite far up, which requires a high and compact pressing to not allow being bypassed

This video shows a lack of possession play and indicates the need for a high pressing (and as we know from watching the games that doesn't really exist).

Of course that might be selection bias because the creator just likes counter attacks (and I'm fine with that, as it just is football at its most dynamic), but calling this an advert for the style United play doesn't cut it for me.
 
matherto said:
Yeah all the talk of the new manager high and we've still not had it.
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Do people actually remember what it was like towards the end of that 21/22 season? Would love to know how many thought we'd be finishing 3rd the following year. We've been crap so far this year but let's not completely ignore reality.
 
stefan92 said:
It is an interesting video, because it truly highlights an issue instead of being an advent for how United play.

All of these goals are scored on the break and most of them after winning the ball quite far up the pitch, very few are played out of the back.

So what does this video tell us?
- United doesn't score from controlled play, they can't score from possession
- United has to win the ball quite far up, which requires a high and compact pressing to not allow being bypassed

This video shows a lack of possession play and indicates the need for a high pressing (and as we know from watching the games that doesn't really exist).

Of course that might be selection bias because the creator just likes counter attacks (and I'm fine with that, as it just is football at its most dynamic), but calling this an advert for the style United play doesn't cut it for me.
Click to expand...

Utd are capable of scoring from controlled play and possession, we just aren’t seeing it often enough. A prime example of it was against Arsenal at home last season where we worked the ball in their final third before going all the way back to our keeper and then progressing it back up the pitch again with Antony finally slotting it away and every Man Utd player touching the ball in the process.
 
RuudTom83 said:
I think fans get hung up on this "style" or "identity" debate, to me it's just a topic used by sports channels to criticise whatever club is currently having some bad form.




Watch this for an advert of United play...it's direct, its fast, its attacking play.

Basically it's premiership football.
Click to expand...


Come on. Brighton. Liverpool. Brentford. Man City. Spurs (now). Even a Sean Dyche Everton, all have an identity to their game, you know what to expect in terms of approach, tempo, strategy.

I don't know how we play under ETH. When we kick off, I don't know what to expect.. I think, it's '...get the ball to Rashford and see if he can do something...'

Look at the goal yesterday. Something out of pretty much nothing. We aren't going to win lots of games with goals like that, because those types of goals are special, and therefore, quite rare.
 
matherto said:
Yeah all the talk of the new manager high and we've still not had it.
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Ubik said:
Do people actually remember what it was like towards the end of that 21/22 season? Would love to know how many thought we'd be finishing 3rd the following year. We've been crap so far this year but let's not completely ignore reality.
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Winning a trophy, finishing 3rd, CL football back, beating Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and City..

I swear people have short memories.
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
Utd are capable of scoring from controlled play and possession, we just aren’t seeing it often enough. A prime example of it was against Arsenal at home last season where we worked the ball in their final third before going all the way back to our keeper and then progressing it back up the pitch again with Antony finally slotting it away and every Man Utd player touching the ball in the process.
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Good one. So it really is just bias by the creator of the video if he doesn't include such examples of this.

So it's not representative of United's style of play.
 
Haven't visited this thread much recently but surprised to see the knives out for EtH. EtH's fine, it's the club that's the problem and years of poor recruitment. Having said that EtH needs help identifying transfer targets as I don't find signings of Mount and Antony convincing. Maybe we'll see it all come together when they're finally all fit. Most of all we need rid of the toxic drama and player power at the club, Sancho has disappointed me massively - had such high hopes for him, but if he's gonna continue turning the club into a circus he can just feck off.
 
@stefan92

Yeah can't argue with that...I didn't make the video ;) but it's a decent demo of the types of goal Untied score and hence shows their style...or at least suggest it blah blah.

Also I don't think United have the players for a possession heavy approach. So I don't expect to see that style on matchdays, and therefore I'm not going to slag off the players/manager for not doing it.

Personally I don't like the pinball type of football we see most weeks, but I would like to see more control and not necessary more possession. United tend to have very bad in game management and just play at one tempo.
 
stefan92 said:
Good one. So it really is just bias by the creator of the video if he doesn't include such examples of this.

So it's not representative of United's style of play.
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Oh it’s definitely an issue and we need to be able to control games much more often but we’ve shown in moments we’re capable of progressing through the thirds and scoring not just relying solely on counter attacking football. The problem is we don’t see it anywhere near enough and that has to improve.
 
RuudTom83 said:
@stefan92

Yeah can't argue with that...I didn't make the video ;) but it's a decent demo of the types of goal Untied score and hence shows their style...or at least suggest it blah blah.

Also I don't think United have the players for a possession heavy approach. So I don't expect to see that style on matchdays, and therefore I'm not going to slag off the players/manager for not doing it.

Personally I don't like the pinball type of football we see most weeks, but I would like to see more control and not necessary more possession. United tend to have very bad in game management and just play at one tempo.
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Yeah, you can't blame EtH for playing in a way that works around Rashford as he's been our main outlet in goals. The signing of Hojlund so obviously the logical answer to dealing with this deficit. He tried before with Weghorst bui the problem was it was fecking Weghurst.
 
Jeffthered said:
Come on. Brighton. Liverpool. Brentford. Man City. Spurs (now). Even a Sean Dyche Everton, all have an identity to their game, you know what to expect in terms of approach, tempo, strategy.

I don't know how we play under ETH. When we kick off, I don't know what to expect.. I think, it's '...get the ball to Rashford and see if he can do something...'

Look at the goal yesterday. Something out of pretty much nothing. We aren't going to win lots of games with goals like that, because those types of goals are special, and therefore, quite rare.
Click to expand...

Currently the team is in terrible form so I don't think anyone knows what gonna happen haha.

But last season most games I knew what was coming...every team uses their best players and Rashford and Bruno are absolutely lethal and I love the pair of them, I have no problem admitting that or referring to that as a style. United at their best are fast, skilful and direct!

Of course there are other limitations within the squad which over time can be addressed to improve the midfield, Casemiro was always going to be a temp solution.
 
RuudTom83 said:
@stefan92

Yeah can't argue with that...I didn't make the video ;) but it's a decent demo of the types of goal Untied score and hence shows their style...or at least suggest it blah blah.

Also I don't think United have the players for a possession heavy approach. So I don't expect to see that style on matchdays, and therefore I'm not going to slag off the players/manager for not doing it.

Personally I don't like the pinball type of football we see most weeks, but I would like to see more control and not necessary more possession. United tend to have very bad in game management and just play at one tempo.
Click to expand...
Fully agree with this post. Watching the goals is fun, and there is nothing bad about scoring and enjoying them.

"Pinball football" seems to be a quite good description for this one tempo United has.

And to turn attention to the lazy players: Pinball football doesn't allow a player to rest. More controlled approaches include slowly walking or jogging around, this doesn't.

Players do need that and as it isn't part of the style of play they take their breaks when they want to because they have to do some.

But that seems to be a recipe for player lazyness to kick in and take far more breaks than they should be allowed and that's how everyone criticises them.

While writing this I start to wonder what Lucien Favre could do with this squad. His super passive but extremely well organised defending should suit them and using that as a base for counter attacks just is a natural fit for Bruno and Rashford.

Probably much better than every other style depending on high press and lots of possession that other managers including EtH try to coach.

Not saying Favre should replace EtH, he probably lacks every other character trait needed for this club, but just in regard to playing style I would love to see his Gladbach/Dortmund approach implemented.

Might even give Sancho a reason to want to be included again as he thrived in auch a setup.
 
Jeffthered said:
Come on. Brighton. Liverpool. Brentford. Man City. Spurs (now). Even a Sean Dyche Everton, all have an identity to their game, you know what to expect in terms of approach, tempo, strategy.

I don't know how we play under ETH. When we kick off, I don't know what to expect.. I think, it's '...get the ball to Rashford and see if he can do something...'

Look at the goal yesterday. Something out of pretty much nothing. We aren't going to win lots of games with goals like that, because those types of goals are special, and therefore, quite rare.
Click to expand...
That ball to Bruno that ended in that goal was not random but clearly a pre-planned tactic, we did it several times.
 
FortunaUtd said:
That ball to Bruno that ended in that goal was not random but clearly a pre-planned tactic, we did it several times.
Click to expand...

Pre-planned tactic? Doubt it... just a great goal.. a centre-half, comfortable with his left foot, playing on the left hand side of the pitch, picking out a right-footed player, playing from the right side of the pitch.. that's hardly unique. That goal was a special finish.

I would like to see us creating more chances, more clear openings. We need to... Rashford is getting frustrated as will Rasmus.

I would leave Bruno playing there. He doesn't hug the touchline like Rashford or Antony.. but he can play higher up, and give us more cutting edge in attack.
 
stefan92 said:
It is an interesting video, because it truly highlights an issue instead of being an advent for how United play.

All of these goals are scored on the break and most of them after winning the ball quite far up the pitch, very few are played out of the back.

So what does this video tell us?
- United doesn't score from controlled play, they can't score from possession
- United has to win the ball quite far up, which requires a high and compact pressing to not allow being bypassed

This video shows a lack of possession play and indicates the need for a high pressing (and as we know from watching the games that doesn't really exist).

Of course that might be selection bias because the creator just likes counter attacks (and I'm fine with that, as it just is football at its most dynamic), but calling this an advert for the style United play doesn't cut it for me.
Click to expand...

We'd see a lot more goals from controlled play if we had managed to secure FDJ. Not getting that key player, or anyone capable of fulfilling that role, really set the Ten Hag project back a bit. This year we landed the all-important striker and goalkeeper, but we're still seeing issues in midfield that has to be the main priority next season in addition to backup for all positions.

Our aim should be top 4 and a cup run this season, hopefully we get there.
 
Hopefully he gets this goal difference sorted in the coming weeks, -3 is not good enough, they have a decent enough run of games coming up until they play Newcastle and city next month.
 
RuudTom83 said:
I think fans get hung up on this "style" or "identity" debate, to me it's just a topic used by sports channels to criticise whatever club is currently having some bad form.




Watch this for an advert of United play...it's direct, its fast, its attacking play.

Basically it's premiership football.
Click to expand...


@Litch

This and a good number of videos shown from the first half of Last season show exactly the type/style of play ETH wants us to have.

When the whole mandate requires defenders who are comfortable playing out from the back, and then all of those defenders get injured, the style is difficult to maintain.
 
TheReligion said:
What advice should he ask for?
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How to become a favourite on the Caf after just a couple of games (hint; the answer is to be any manager other than ours).

Also, I'm amazed at how many experts we have that notice Dyce's Everton have a style of play yet they struggle to notice that we have one as well. It's almost like they don't notice any team's style of play at all, but because everyone else parrots the same line they also say it. I guess the more diplomatic way of saying that is "they don't know what the feck they're on about".
 
Litch said:
Agree but other utd managers did the same or better and ended up sacked.
EtH has an horrendous injury list but for me, the style of play isnt dictated by players availability, only better success in implementing it.....
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Yes, and if things get as bad as they did under Ole and Jose then Ten Hag will go the same way, but it's not even open for conversation yet.

I can't believe how little credit he has in the bank from last season, he hated most of the squad, had Ronaldo to deal with, the sale of the club been announced, no proper striker all season, yet still won us a trophy and got us top 4, if he wasn't a really good manager he wouldn't have been able to do that.

This season has started badly, but look at the circumstances, and to expect him to be able to implement his preferred playing style so early on and with the new players, and all these injuries/player discipline is a bit harsh to say the least.

If when he gets the team he wants all fit for a decent period of time and we still play like this then it'll be time to judge him, but we're miles off that.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
How to become a favourite on the Caf after just a couple of games (hint; the answer is to be any manager other than ours).

Also, I'm amazed at how many experts we have that notice Dyce's Everton have a style of play yet they struggle to notice that we have one as well. It's almost like they don't notice any team's style of play at all, but because everyone else parrots the same line they also say it. I guess the more diplomatic way of saying that is "they don't know what the feck they're on about".
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:lol:
 
Stack said:
We wont make the top 4
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Still think we have a chance but we need to start playing good football consistently regardless of the opposition and situation and that starts with the way the manager sets the team up and the players he picks. I'm tired of shaky games. I just want to watch an entertaining Manchester United again. It's been over 10 years man. When was the last time we scored 5 in the PL? I genuinely can't remember.
 
Jericholyte2 said:
@Litch

This and a good number of videos shown from the first half of Last season show exactly the type/style of play ETH wants us to have.

When the whole mandate requires defenders who are comfortable playing out from the back, and then all of those defenders get injured, the style is difficult to maintain.
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Yep, agree but I dont think he held his nerve after a few defeats and maybe pressure to win understandably abandoned his football principles.
Maybe once the dust settles, players come back, he'll revert back to what got him the job in the first place....?
If he persists when players come back with this approach, like last session he has to win games....
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
How can you possibly judge Mount yet? Give the guy a chance.

Ten Hag clearly likes Antony, and he is surely allowed this season to show if he can improve or not, if he can't then this is on Ten Hag, but he has to be given the opportunity to prove it.

Until we reach a point where there is calm at the club, and Ten Hag can pick the team he wants to for an extended period of time, then I don't know how anyone can really say with any confidence if he is good enough or not. Even then it'll be work in progress as he will likely need at least another transfer window to get the squad to where he wants it.
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On one hand I agree with you and could add that we have played 3 top5 teams. On the other hand we had a full team bar Höjlund for our first two games where we failed to impress. Everything I have seen so far suggest that we will struggle to reach top 5 this seasons. Obviously early in the season but I call it as I see it. We will have a clearer picture by Christmas.
 
A little bit depressed to read that Newcastle scored more goals in today's game than we have scored all season. I genuinely think a lot of fans will lighten up if the goals start going in. We need to give Crystal Palace an absolute thrashing in the next league game. Go hard.
 
Superunknown said:
A little bit depressed to read that Newcastle scored more goals in today's game than we have scored all season. I genuinely think a lot of fans will lighten up if the goals start going in. We need to give Crystal Palace an absolute thrashing in the next league game. Go hard.
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That’s the issue we have. Even with a ST we still don’t score a ton of goals. The midfield don’t know how to build up play and create clear opportunities
 
DJ_21 said:
That’s the issue we have. Even with a ST we still don’t score a ton of goals. The midfield don’t know how to build up play and create clear opportunities
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Yeah, I agree. That midfield base we had with Casemiro and McTominay isn't going to cut it. Eriksen looks to be the one player we have in midfield who can create something or spot a pass, but he hasn't got the mobility. It almost feels like you need three or four players to do the job of one or two. There were two many instances yesterday where the centre backs had the ball and they had very few options to go through the middle. Inevitably, it goes out wide and the attacks were fizzling out quickly because Rashford wasn't in the mood.
 
I just hope that the board stays firm and back Ten Hag even if it turns a bit nasty. It's absolutely crazy that we are six games into the new premier league campaign and already the leaks are coming. It's like groundhog day. The games this season has been poor and we talk about the coaching and patterns of play just like we did under Moyes, Mourinho, Ole and now Ten Hag. It's been like this since Fergie retired. All these managers are highly experienced and not so hopeless that they can't coach a team to do even the basics right(press, run back, give it all in duels etc). It's the culture thats completely rotten to the core. If you have worked in a toxic environment you might know that there is no quick fixes to this, so I just hope they/we stay behind Ten Hag while he tries to fix this mess. No manager will survive at this club if it stays like this.
 
He needs time to implement a set playing style but there's a minimum standard to achieve which is CL football while he's doing that.

Sorry it's a bit tough but that's the Man Utd job. I don't see why ten Hag should be treated any different to our past managers if his results aren't amazingly better than those who came before.
 
RuudTom83 said:
I think fans get hung up on this "style" or "identity" debate, to me it's just a topic used by sports channels to criticise whatever club is currently having some bad form.




Watch this for an advert of United play...it's direct, its fast, its attacking play.

Basically it's premiership football.
Click to expand...




According to this video, we played Tiki Taka under Mourinho.

So yeah, highlights videos mean nothing. The general play is more important than some nice moments scattered here and there.
 
el3mel said:


According to this video, we played Tiki Taka under Mourinho.

So yeah, highlights videos mean nothing. The general play is more important than some nice moments scattered here and there.
Click to expand...


In 16-18 Jose had much better individual players, and thats the real difference.

Martial - current version is like a shadow of that periods Martial
Pogba - Better than any midfielder we have now (this will be hard for people to swallow)
Herrera - walks into this current team with ease.
Mata - Better than Antony by a lot and thats a big problem.
Mikhi - Better than the Sancho we have now

Rashfords the only player you can say the current version is better than the old version.
 
RedStarUnited said:
In 16-18 Jose had much better individual players, and thats the real difference.

Martial - current version is like a shadow of that periods Martial
Pogba - Better than any midfielder we have now (this will be hard for people to swallow)
Herrera - walks into this current team with ease.
Mata - Better than Antony by a lot and thats a big problem.
Mikhi - Better than the Sancho we have now

Rashfords the only player you can say the current version is better than the old version.
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You realize that's not the point, right ? The point is using a video for some highlights in game to determine style's of play is nonsensical way of thinking. Mourinho's United played defensive football, parked the bus even but going by this video you'll think we were playing like prime Barca. It just some highlights.

General play during the 90 minutes determine our style of play, not few scattered moments here and there. That's United's main issue anyway, we're a moments team, rather than a team who dominates the opposition and impose our style on them.

General play has been godawful for years saved by our key players creating few moments of brilliance and this hasn't changed one bit under Ten Hag.
 
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