Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

Status
Not open for further replies.
Keep, obviously.

The players who are unavailable would provide a partial explanation for the poor start. There's other issues at play, particularly stylistically, but the number of absentees at present would make it difficult for any manager.

Shaw and Varane are crucial to our defence, for differing reasons. Varane provides a baseline of stability and steadiness for the other defenders, particularly Martinez, while Shaw is one of our most technically gifted players - our ability to progress and rotate the ball suffers without him.

Losing Mount, regardess of your opinion of him, is a blow for what Ten Hag is attempting to implement. I wasn't a fan of the signing but we've clearly lacked energy and speed in our last few games; traits Mount offers in abundance, despite his shortcomings elsewhere.

Similarly, Mainoo seemed to be earmarked this summer as a midfielder with the profile we're desperate for. I believe he would have featured regularly in the opening five games if not for the unfortunate injury. The same holds true for Amrabat; a player capable of helping buttress the midfield who Ten Hag wanted early in the summer, but was forced to wait for.

Two of our expensive wingers, who could play on the right, are unavailable due to off-the-field issues, and the other talented youngster (Amad) is also ruled out through injury. Antony is out of his hands, but the Sancho situation is one more directly influenced by Ten Hag. It's not the first time Sancho's professionalism or application has been questioned, however, and the entire squad is expected to abide by the manager's standards, regardless of your status (e.g. Ronaldo/Rashford). The fact other players in the dressing room are reported to share Ten Hag's frustrations with Sancho is evidence enough to side with the Dutchman.

We've also only been able to start Højlund once but the initial signs are very promising. His physicality and pace alone should open things up for Rashford and Fernandes; the fact his link-up play has looked sharp is an added bonus.

If we had Varane, Shaw, Mount, Mainoo, Amrabat, Antony and Højlund available for every game this season, and the performances were still as worrying as they've been, questions over Ten Hag's position would be more valid. Given he's been largely deprived of anything close to his ideal match day squad, he deserves a level of leniency.

That shouldn't fully detract from some of the poor moments/decisions we've seen in the opening five games. The substitutes on Saturday, in particular, were baffling, and made us weaker with each intervention by Ten Hag. Equally, Varane/Shaw/Mount were available against Wolves and Spurs yet the underlying issues were still present.

But based on last season alone Ten Hag's earned more than enough faith to endure this tricky start.
 
Last edited:
I wasn't expecting miracles or for us to challenge for the title.

The one thing I did have expectations for this season was for us to have an identity, to play modern attractive, possession-based football, based on signings like Onana and Martinez and we're no where near that, specially when you put out the kind of midfield we have

That's my biggest disappointment with ETH.

It shouldn't take this long to change the way a team plays. It's been more than a year, hundreds of millions of pounds worth of signings and we still play garbage football.

I can't even go into a game against a lower/midtable team at home and guarantee we'll dominate them.
 
I have written off our season just in Sept. This team will not finish top 4, that's for sure. What I want to see if how we play. The pattern of play must be the same regardless of the personnel. However, it doesn't seems that way. Anytime we lose a player through whatever reason, this team cannot perform. Something is seriously wrong, it still looks at Ole at the wheel. Depending of a moment of brilliant from Rashford or Bruno.
 
Romez said:
I wasn't expecting miracles or for us to challenge for the title.

The one thing I did have expectations for this season was for us to have an identity, to play modern attractive, possession-based football, based on signings like Onana and Martinez and we're no where near that, specially when you put out the kind of midfield we have

That's my biggest disappointment with ETH.

It shouldn't take this long to change the way a team plays. It's been more than a year, hundreds of millions of pounds worth of signings and we still play garbage football.

I can't even go into a game against a lower/midtable team at home and guarantee we'll dominate them.
Click to expand...
Exactly this. No one is asking for title challenges, why is it so difficult to look competent? Even the games we win, we always end up panicking and holding on nervously.
 
FortunaUtd said:
I am not saying he should be immune to criticism. Am I happy about the current state of his management, and about the development the team has taken over the last half a year? No.
But still let us break down your argument.

1. Over those 60 games, long spells were very good. We also had deep cup runs and won one. All in all, last season has to be classified as a successful one, in no easy circumstances. To start off, this has to be punctuated with a period.

2. About the money spent, most of it was to replace outgoing players. Matic, Pogba, Lingard, Ronaldo, and then De Gea, Bailly, Jones, Tuanzebe all left on free transfers. Fred, Elanga, Telles left for very little money. Obviously in order to replace them or even begin to try to improve the squad, money had to be invested. In that context, 400m really is not incredibly much.
Has that money been invested wisely? Partly yes, partly no, partly doubtful.
- The investments in Casemiro, Lisandro and Onana were necessary and good. Lisandro is quality and a fighter, exactly what the team needed. Casemiro was a great addition last season, a seasoned world class player to upgrade on Matic. The GK position desperately needed action, and we signed the GK of a CL finalist.
- The investment in Antony has not turned out to be good. Malacia, unconvincing but not terrible as a squad player.
- Mount, Amrabat and Höjlund, it makes no sense to judge them, as they have been injured and Höjlund is a kid just getting his first games. Mount is a hard-working, yet creative and forward-thinking midfielder whom just a year ago, in light of his heroics under Tuchel, would have commanded a much larger fee. Will he be the right choice, we do not know yet, but it is certainly not an absurd or wrong transfer to have made.
If you ask me, Höjlund was baffingly expensive, but let us not pretend that the striker market is ripe with bargains, and arguably the state of this position in the squad would have required even more investment.

But there we arrive at the nexus of Ten Hag's management and the overall club management at DoF and CEO level, which is quite clearly where the problems lie.
- The squad is riddled with problems stemming from the chaotic period our club has been going through. Manager recruitment has been confused, opportunistic, ill-timed, and so has been player recruitment. We are paying the price in that the squad is patchy, uneven and has basically been a value- and talent-destroying deadwood generator. Clearly that affects squad building - getting rid of players is unprofitable and difficult, restraining possibilities to get new ones. With regards to that last point, it does not help that the club negotiators have suddenly discovered the need to take a hard line on fees when it would be needed to get rid of a player. Of course, better negotiating and not being taken for mugs is what we all were screaming for, but holding out for more money just out of a sense of pride does not seem intelligent when it keeps us from moving on. But obviously I do not know the fine print and insides of finances, negotiations and FFP requirements.
- The club has attempted a structural shift/update with the position of a DoF and the change of CEO, albeit without bringing in proven expertise from the outside. I was willing, and sort of still am, to give Murtough a chance, but the input into squad planning and its execution from the DoF position is looking very questionable. Signings still tend to be opportunistic (Casemiro and Mount, even if both are quality additions and there is nothing wrong with taking opportunities) and there is no sense of a strategic and shrewd squad building apart from plugging present holes. It seems reactive, and many transfers came very late in the windows.
- In the absence of a proactive DoF line, there is a somewhat worrying tendency to amend squad planning by bringing in players Ten Hag knows. Now, DoF-manager constructs are always difficult to balance, and part of that balance should indeed be to let the manager have a couple of players he favours even if consequent scouting would suggest other alternatives. After all, the manager needs to engineer team chemistry and for that, his judgement and confidence is vital. But it does look like we need more expertise and decisiveness from the DoF side to balance squad building if, as the case of Antony shows, the manager gets it wrong, as can and will happen.

The DoF was installed by the board and works within the parameters set by them. Either he is just an extension of their general obtuseness towards running a football club (having been promoted from within), or rather his ability to act competently, decisively and proactively is hampered by that obtuseness. I am assuming it is a mixture of both, with the weight on the latter.
Because there is the main problem:
The club has been put up for sale, in the middle of Ten Hag's first season. If our owners were not much interested in Man Utd's essence as a football club before, they are now not at all so. The grave situation is that we are owned and run by people who are not invested in the club's future at all. It is not hard to conclude that this also means a reluctance or downright refusal to make consequential decisions and investments into the squad, instead we have been chasing cheapskate loans for anything other than the most needed core additions. That is the hand Murtough has been dealt, one year into his tenure. It also means board, CEO, DoF have no clear future at the club which surely can only add to the sense of disconnect between club, fans, manager, and board.

So are we going to acknowledge the severity of this situation, the hand that has been dealt to Ten Hag, or are we really going to senselessly debate about his sacking? Ten Hag was the right hire, he is a quality manager. He is not the only quality manager out there, but he is not the problem.
To adress your point about his tactics, he seems to be struggling, and I cannot help but feel this is connected to him trying to be pragmatic. Whether that is the right approach, I do not know, arguably the circumstances of the squad are not favourable for the free-spirited and commanding tactical reset we were expecting. But he has shown resiliance before, and he deserves our continuing if critical support. So do our players.

That being said, after the Bayern game, where really there is nothing to be lost, we have four games against weak opponents. Away to Burnley and Sheffield, home to Palace and Brentford. We need 12 points from those, nothing less, and no excuses.
Not even refereeing.
Click to expand...
Some things I disagree with:
1) we had some good spells last season but some awful ones. Losing 7-0 at home to Liverpool a new low for this club.
2) Casimero is not a good signing for £60m plus huge wages when his legs were gone. He is fast becoming a liability. Antony also a waste, we hugely overpaid for him. Onana was v expensive when David Raya was half the price and a great sweeper and possibly better shot stopper. We can judge Mount as many have seen a lot of him. Dont see how he solves our big problems
3) There is no DOF, as is clear from the fact that ETH seems to have final say and most of his signings came from Ajax or had time in Dutch league
4) ARe his tactics being pragmatic or just not working? No idea. not sure anyone does, which is part of the problem. Wolves cut us apart at will. Lets not forget that
5) his overplaying of core squad last season was raised even before we got a load more injuries
 
NZT-One said:
I think you started the tonality when you indicated that all I had to do would be to "look deeper" to then gloriously reaching your standpoint due to its absoluteness. But lets it here, if you think, the little xg graph over time is all it takes to depict a game, then we don't have much common ground to start with. I'd happily present you a stat for comfortable-ness where the heartrate of players is measured when they play calmly out from the through our lines. But unfortunately, this stat isn't available as of now. I also want to remind you, that I do not ignore our opportunities, I just called them "not high value chances" which they weren't. As I said, it wasn't a tight game. Nothing to do with United bad, Brighton good. It just wasn't a tight game. It is to a degree subjective, lets use this to end on a positive note.

I also think, you misunderstood my 2nd point. I mean 10 neutral fans who only watch the game without knowing what players are on and which teams are playing. Only the actions on the pitch without any context. Pretty sure they would agree that one team looked way more in control of the game. And it reflects in more or less all stats, be it possession, successful passes, number of passes, shots, xg whatever. Not like Brighton ran away on any single metric but overall, it paints a picture that aligns to what I have seen on screen.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, well I apologise for the look deeper comment, it wasn't meant condescendingly but just that the score doesn't tell the real story of the match. The xG over time was used as an example, that the game was tight and could have gone either way until it got away from us at the end. Brighton held on to the ball well after going ahead, but we still had the more threatening opportunities.

As your your second point, you're just assuming that 10 neutral fans would see the game the way you did. It doesn't hold any weight as an argument, that's why it's a known fallacy.

Anyway this is getting circular now, we'll just have to disagree as our interpretations of the match are very different.
 
The Hilton said:
Fair enough, well I apologise for the look deeper comment, it wasn't meant condescendingly but just that the score doesn't tell the real story of the match. The xG over time was used as an example, that the game was tight and could have gone either way until it got away from us at the end. Brighton held on to the ball well after going ahead, but we still had the more threatening opportunities.

As your your second point, you're just assuming that 10 neutral fans would see the game the way you did. It doesn't hold any weight as an argument, that's why it's a known fallacy.

Anyway this is getting circular now, we'll just have to disagree as our interpretations of the match are very different.
Click to expand...
Would be great if questions like this could really be answered. Genuine thought. I think, that would really make discussions more interesting as it would open up our United bubble to a degree (would also be interesting for all other fan forums and/or places, where bubbles are a big facto). If only I could set up an online platform to make this work. ^^
 
IRELANDUNITED said:
We’ve been on a continuous spiral of sacking managers, hiring another, being optimistic that this one will work out and then sacking that manager again. Until we learn that we need to fully stick with a manager and not always be looking for the next flavour of the month we will go no where. Look at Klopp with Liverpool, his first couple of seasons were very underwhelming, if he was at United a lot of fans would have called for him to be sacked several times. Same with Arteta at Arsenal. Ten Hag has shown more than enough evidence in his first 14 months at Old Trafford that he is the right man for the job, is it perfect? No of course not, but he has shown more than enough that he deserves time and backing. He’s also had several issues to deal with which he has dealt with well for the most part. If we sack him and get De Zerbi (flavour of the month) we will be back to square one. Stick with ETH and we’ll be glad we did in a few seasons time.
Click to expand...

The comparison with Arteta, good. But please let's not bring Klopp or Pep or SAF (others keep mentioning the last two, not you) into arguments supporting ETH.

Klopp in his first six Liverpool games beat Chelsea and Man City both away. Later that season they eliminated a strong Dortmund side from the EL.

Their new style was obvious from day fecking one. It was clear to every man and his blind dog that with their manic pressing, they could put 3 or 4 goals past any team in a 10 minute spell. ETH has shown no consistent style and we keep blaming that on off-field matters and letting him off the hook.
 
Gordon Godot said:
Some things I disagree with:
1) we had some good spells last season but some awful ones. Losing 7-0 at home to Liverpool a new low for this club.
2) Casimero is not a good signing for £60m plus huge wages when his legs were gone. He is fast becoming a liability. Antony also a waste, we hugely overpaid for him. Onana was v expensive when David Raya was half the price and a great sweeper and possibly better shot stopper. We can judge Mount as many have seen a lot of him. Dont see how he solves our big problems
3) There is no DOF, as is clear from the fact that ETH seems to have final say and most of his signings came from Ajax or had time in Dutch league
4) ARe his tactics being pragmatic or just not working? No idea. not sure anyone does, which is part of the problem. Wolves cut us apart at will. Lets not forget that
5) his overplaying of core squad last season was raised even before we got a load more injuries
Click to expand...
The 7-0 wasn't at home. We lost 5-0 at home the season before.
 
Its hard watching us play this season. Though its too early, but it looks like our top 4 finish last season has been misleading so far. While I am sure we will go on a decent cup run in UCL, our actual level is may be about Europa league. This may not be a popular opinion, but a player like Marcus Rashford, with a disaster end product, and a couple of flash in the pan seasons, is suddenly being touted as the second-coming of a prime CR7 amongst our fan base, shows the levels we have dropped. In any of our great teams of the past, the lad would be on the bench most of the time.

The problem is not with ETH, its the players. Just like winning mentality, losing mentality is also infectious. The current players have mentally conditioned themselves to accept average performances. Unfortunately a few new players aren't really going to do an u-turn and be the messiah for us. Hard to find a Keane and Cantona in this era. To turn this around, we need to weed off a lot of these 'bad-egg' failures from the squad, particularly the ones who are sub-par. It's going to be a slow churn, until ETH has players who will place the manager above themselves. ETH needs time and 'his' players, both of which is generally difficult to get here. The Cup win/top 4 has brought him time. He has to keep repeating this year after year to stand a chance and at the moment it looks highly unlikely. The manner of the Brighton loss was damaging but expected after we barely scraped past the first few games. I don't see the end of the tunnel with ETH as a few more draws/losses like Brighton will crank the pressure.If Pool gets a decent CB cover by Jan, that's 3 of the top 4 spots sealed. It will be between, us, Tottenham and Newcastle, at the moment, Ange-ball looks the most promising over us. Looking bleak for ETH, at the moment. He needs statement wins to buy time and he needs them instantly in the next few games.

In hindsight, we needed a "Klopp" type man-manager, over a "Pep" type tactician in ETH for a quick fix. Klopp would have squeezed the nuts of these prima-donnas embarrassing the shirt for a fast turn around.
 
Last edited:
iamking said:
Its hard watching us play this season. Though its too early, but it looks like our 4th place last season has been misleading so far. While I am sure we will go on a decent cup run in UCL, our actual level is may be about Europa league. This may not be a popular opinion, but a player like Marcus Rashford, with a disaster end product, and a couple of flash in the pan seasons, is suddenly being touted as the second-coming of a prime CR7 amongst our fan base, shows the levels we have dropped. In any of our great teams of the past, the lad would be on the bench most of the time.

The problem is not with ETH, its the players. Just like winning mentality, losing mentality is also infectious. The current players have mentally conditioned themselves to accept average performances. Unfortunately a few new players aren't really going to do an u-turn and be the messiah for us. Hard to find a Keane and Cantona in this era. To turn this around, we need to weed off a lot of these 'bad-egg' failures from the squad, particularly the ones who are sub-par. It's going to be a slow churn, until ETH has players who will place the manager above themselves. ETH needs time and 'his' players, both of which is generally difficult to get here. The Cup win/top 4 has brought him time. He has to keep repeating this year after year to stand a chance and at the moment it looks highly unlikely. The manner of the Brighton loss was damaging but expected after we barely scraped past the first few games. I don't see the end of the tunnel with ETH as a few more draws/losses like Brighton will crank the pressure.If Pool gets a decent CB cover by Jan, that's 3 of the top 4 spots sealed. It will be between, us, Tottenham and Newcastle, at the moment, Ange-ball looks the most promising over us. Looking bleak for ETH, at the moment. He needs statement wins to buy time and he needs them instantly in the next few games.

In hindsight, we needed a "Klopp" type man-manager, over a "Pep" type tactician in ETH for a quick fix. Klopp would have squeezed the nuts of these prima-donnas embarrassing the shirt for a fast turn around.
Click to expand...
It is misleading because we finished 3rd.
 
redIndianDevil said:
Exactly this. No one is asking for title challenges, why is it so difficult to look competent? Even the games we win, we always end up panicking and holding on nervously.
Click to expand...
We're lucky to have won the games we've won so far this season. Wolves and Forest both battered us, we could have been easily looking at 5 defeats in 5.
 
You know what, I fully support ETH and hope we give him as much time as reasonably possible. But how can people still think "we need to fully stick with a manager" is the answer is beyond me. Happens every time. It was why it took us so long to sack Ole when it was already painfully obvious to anyone he wasn't good enough. Also these "needs to be given a minimum od 3 years" ideas. Literally no top club works like that. For a good reason. We keep reseting every few years because we give managers the power to dismantle half the squad and bring in his players for half a billion and when that doesn't work out we're fecked. Need to move away from that first and foremost.
 
redIndianDevil said:
Exactly this. No one is asking for title challenges, why is it so difficult to look competent? Even the games we win, we always end up panicking and holding on nervously.
Click to expand...
Results aren’t even that important at this point. Of course it’s essential to get into CL and keep getting better in our league positions / points tally but it’s sustainable long term improvement that we should be after, then these one off results can be written off as just a bad day at the office like Liverpool loss was last season.

We have however regressed badly since winning League Cup. The level of our performances in the second half of season was largely ranging from poor to abysmal (Sevilla game being the worst), we haven’t played coherent football for the last three months except 2-3 one off games (Everton, Nottingham) and we started this year even worse.

Brighton lost badly to West Ham and Everton the other days but watching them you know what they are trying to do and that over the long term it will get them to a good place. You don’t get that feeling with us.
 
crossy1686 said:
We're lucky to have won the games we've won so far this season. Wolves and Forest both battered us, we could have been easily looking at 5 defeats in 5.
Click to expand...
We've played badly enough across the season that there's no real need to make things up like Forest "battering us".
 
crossy1686 said:
We're lucky to have won the games we've won so far this season. Wolves and Forest both battered us, we could have been easily looking at 5 defeats in 5.
Click to expand...
Forrest did not batter us
 
iamking said:
Its hard watching us play this season. Though its too early, but it looks like our 4th place last season has been misleading so far. While I am sure we will go on a decent cup run in UCL, our actual level is may be about Europa league. This may not be a popular opinion, but a player like Marcus Rashford, with a disaster end product, and a couple of flash in the pan seasons, is suddenly being touted as the second-coming of a prime CR7 amongst our fan base, shows the levels we have dropped. In any of our great teams of the past, the lad would be on the bench most of the time.

The problem is not with ETH, its the players. Just like winning mentality, losing mentality is also infectious. The current players have mentally conditioned themselves to accept average performances. Unfortunately a few new players aren't really going to do an u-turn and be the messiah for us. Hard to find a Keane and Cantona in this era. To turn this around, we need to weed off a lot of these 'bad-egg' failures from the squad, particularly the ones who are sub-par. It's going to be a slow churn, until ETH has players who will place the manager above themselves. ETH needs time and 'his' players, both of which is generally difficult to get here. The Cup win/top 4 has brought him time. He has to keep repeating this year after year to stand a chance and at the moment it looks highly unlikely. The manner of the Brighton loss was damaging but expected after we barely scraped past the first few games. I don't see the end of the tunnel with ETH as a few more draws/losses like Brighton will crank the pressure.If Pool gets a decent CB cover by Jan, that's 3 of the top 4 spots sealed. It will be between, us, Tottenham and Newcastle, at the moment, Ange-ball looks the most promising over us. Looking bleak for ETH, at the moment. He needs statement wins to buy time and he needs them instantly in the next few games.

In hindsight, we needed a "Klopp" type man-manager, over a "Pep" type tactician in ETH for a quick fix. Klopp would have squeezed the nuts of these prima-donnas embarrassing the shirt for a fast turn around.
Click to expand...
I think that's a good point regarding the players' mentality. It's why I'm in favour of keeping sancho out of team training unless he fully toes the line. Negativity can easily creep into teams, even successful ones especially when finances are involved. It happens in every business and I guess it will be at a whole other level when we're talking about footballer money.

A pretty harsh but fair disciplinarian is needed to deal with that lot.
 
The perfomances over the last 6 or 7 months have been terrible and the manager has to take at least part of the blame for that as well as the ridculous team selections and subs that are costing us, the goal Brighton scored on Saturday after every Man Utd player bar the keeper stood and did nothing as Brighton made 30 passes and then scored just is an example of how poorly this team is being coached and how at times none of our players seem to know what they should and shouldnt be doing so makes you wonder what exactly they are doing on the training ground.
 
r0663664 said:
I have written off our season just in Sept. This team will not finish top 4, that's for sure. What I want to see if how we play. The pattern of play must be the same regardless of the personnel. However, it doesn't seems that way. Anytime we lose a player through whatever reason, this team cannot perform. Something is seriously wrong, it still looks at Ole at the wheel. Depending of a moment of brilliant from Rashford or Bruno.
Click to expand...
You cannot write of the season already. We don’t look great for sure but we’re in the middle of a crap run of injuries. Once back to full or close to full strength we will be far better. We won’t win the league but top 4 is very possible. Outside City no tea, looks great.
 
astracrazy said:
Why would you sack him?

LVG, Jose and Ralph all essentially said after they left the clubs broken and I'd bet EtH would say the same.

The problem isn't EtH.
Click to expand...

The problem with the club isn’t ETH. But the problem with the football team is.
 
parmenio said:
You cannot write of the season already. We don’t look great for sure but we’re in the middle of a crap run of injuries. Once back to full or close to full strength we will be far better. We won’t win the league but top 4 is very possible. Outside City no tea, looks great.
Click to expand...

I dont really buy the injuries as most of the injured players wouldnt have been in the starting XI anyway and we have been playing awfully for the last 6 or 7 months, we couldnt even beat a really poor Saints side at home a few months and are very lucky to have 6 points on the board this season when we could easilly have had zero.
 
stefan92 said:
I do hope this is made up bullshit and not a leak from the club. If it should be the latter than it looks like preparation to sack him, which would be stupid.
Click to expand...
If it's the latter, then I think it's more of a sign that there are different factions forming within the club, with their own views of how it should be run.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
If it's the latter, then I think it's more of a sign that there are different factions forming within the club, with their own views of how it should be run.
Click to expand...
Even on the mighty Cafe, division have started to form. Even the squad (Sancho being the known case) have started having an opinion.

We need to win the next 10 games for this dark cloud to pass. If Bayern and Burnley do us, then the pressure will hit incredible levels.
 
Berbaclass said:
Click to expand...

stefan92 said:
I do hope this is made up bullshit and not a leak from the club. If it should be the latter than it looks like preparation to sack him, which would be stupid.
Click to expand...
Big Ben Foster said:
If it's the latter, then I think it's more of a sign that there are different factions forming within the club, with their own views of how it should be run.
Click to expand...

It's just a random tweet. What's the point of discussing this speculation
 
Leaks like this may suggest ETH will face serious pressure if things don’t improve.
 
It's starting isn't it? One or two more negative results and the pressure from the media will be insane. He needs some positive results fast otherwise he will quickly become a dead man walking.

At least wins against Palace and Burnley are needed for now.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Sounds like they got overruled
Click to expand...

Sounds like they shafted the manager and then caved in last minute because they could not secure a target of their own.
Similar thing happened with Antony last summer which is why we had to massively overpay, after refusing to sign him earlier and then not being able to secure the clubs own targets for RW

Similar thing happened with Moyes and Fellaini where again we overpaid
 
Status
Not open for further replies.