Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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fallengt said:
Again. Not manager's fault that club massively overpay for players.
Would you still blame him if club paid 300m for some random Brazilian kid that he rated?

He picked the wrong profile, maybe but the inflated number is no way his fault.
fecking bizzare people use it as a stick to beat manager.
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The main reason we paid so much for Antony was because our scouts walked away in June. So it can only be assumed that ETH refused to consider alternatives and insisted we go back for him. So far, it looks like our scouts were right.
 
mu4c_20le said:
The main reason we paid so much for Antony was because our scouts walked away in June. So it can only be assumed that ETH refused to consider alternatives and insisted we go back for him. So far, it looks like our scouts were right.
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We never walked away from the deal. You are making up bullshit for the millionth time on the caf.
 
Sky1981 said:
How bout 60 games into his management, 400M spent, and still clueless about what tactics he wants to play
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Wrong . Half of it is spent this year and you aren't willing to give enough time. Out of 60, we were successful in 55. Got a cup, a cup final and a third place.

So in short, your post is contradicting.
 
Think he needs to by a bit more pragmatic.

I remember the year we won 8-2 against Arsenal. Fergie played the team with so many open space that we were trashed 6-1 by City at home. Then, if I remember well, Fergie started to be more pragmatic and we won the following games by fine margins.

I think we should stop playing the way he wants to play (which is having Martinez and Lindelof(Varane) very far from the goal, having Casemiro and Eriksen as the first pass with the full back almost as high as the number 9).

Keep it tight, keep it simple, take the points and the confidence.

I think that the best football we played last year was after the WC when we were deep and finding the space.

But sorry I don't get the ones that wants him to be out.

We lost 7-0 in Anfield and we were still behind him, so it's worth 15 loss to consider him the sack.
 
fallengt said:
Again. Not manager's fault that club massively overpay for players.
Would you still blame him if club paid 300m for some random Brazilian kid that he rated?

He picked the wrong profile, maybe but the inflated number is no way his fault.
fecking bizzare people use it as a stick to beat manager.
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Ideally though I would want my manager to be able to tell me I’m not supposed to pay £85m for Antony. If you had managed that player for a couple of years and sanctioned a deal at that amount, there is something wrong here.

Unless we believe he was completely in the dark over the amount we were paying. But that is even more dysfunctional.
 
Cassidy said:
Didnt Garnacho start the first 2 games of the season and was poor with fans calling for him to be dropped?

Didnt Eriksen start the last 2/3 games?
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He started because we did not have a striker. Erikson for similar reasons. My point is to play them or rotate in case the starting player does not put in an effort
 
The only way he loses his job is i
fallengt said:
Again. Not manager's fault that club massively overpay for players.
Would you still blame him if club paid 300m for some random Brazilian kid that he rated?

He picked the wrong profile, maybe but the inflated number is no way his fault.
fecking bizzare people use it as a stick to beat manager.
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Anthony and Martinez are his players and it could be argued that we paid so much because EtH wanted them so badly. It look at one point that United were prepared to walk away only to go back and pay a higher fee. True is, we just don't know
 
mu4c_20le said:
Yes, we did.
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No, we were always on the table and pursued other targets before concluding Antony. Our decision to hunt for FdJ was the mistake but the Antony interest was consistent all summer.
 
Keep him - he's got credit in the bank from last season, but he does have a lot of shit to sort out.

However regardless of who is in charge, nothing will change until we get the owners out and the club structure sorted... so does it really matter?
 
Rake said:
Multitude of chances ruined by poor decision making or composure. Same situation as last year. I'd reckon that City would have scored at least 2-3 goals from those situations and won the game comfortably.

Rashford always defaults to trying to shoot and this seems to be encouraged/allowed by the coaching staff and it costs us. Just look at the situation in the 33rd minute where McTominay was wide open 10-11 meters from goal.

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That is our main issue but we are still so far away to solving that
 
Escobar said:
He started because we did not have a striker. Erikson for similar reasons. My point is to play them or rotate in case the starting player does not put in an effort
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Pretty sure the manager has said he wants Garnacho to be a starter, if he had performs better he will start more games
 
Sack the owners, changing managers will not do anything right now, the club needs new owners, new vision, energy and willpower
 
pocco said:
What a crock of shit from start to finish this post is. I'm sorry. The tactical issues that posters are pulling up are entirely viable, you can't possibly say that ETH got it even nearly right yesterday, a blind man can see that. Brighton play the exact same way every game under De Zerbi and ETH hasn't come up with an answer yet. How Brighton can be the best team in Europe, after losing their best players, having a manager for less time than ETH, spending less than us... honestly the excuses are unbearable and the standards are rotten. Yes they're better than us but they shouldn't be. That's the issue. They played us off the park with most of their first choice players missing.

Eventually you will get there and recognise that we're being sold short yet again. I saw these same exact excuses for Ole for so long and it was frustrating listening to them because you knew we were going nowhere fast. But eventually it will get to a point again where enough is enough. We'll have some good days and bad days and probably not finish too far away from the top 4 because we have so many talented players, but there will come a time when even the most ardent ETH defenders get sick of the poor tactics, boring football and ultimately never competing.
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Only an idiot makes an opinion on things they are not knowledgeable about. Yes Brighton adapted to our system, but actually we were the better side until the 2nd goal & when EtH started changing the system and making substitutes, which a lot of posters on here are criticizing him for not doing… (it’s so pathetic that people don’t even realize this). We all should have known it’s going to take 2-3 seasons BEFORE we start seeing us challenging, we’re still rebuilding and patience is needed, short term pain for long term gain.
 
OrcaFat said:
Benching players can work as long as you can win the games.

Hojlund seems to be an instant hit with the fans and we know Garnacho is popular. If we play those two, we could bench Rashford without a revolt, don’t you think?

Then it would be a matter of how Rashford responds. I am not sure if you were suggesting we should sell him? He is a player we might get a few quid for.
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All these players have their unique strengths that are all beneficial to the team when needed but it should be a matter of usage at the appropriate time, not forcing the team to conform to things that are detrimental to our play at specific times.

Rashford is a brilliant player and we should never sell him but I don’t like his untouchable status and he is not the only one. Especially when it’s quite visible he lacks certain tools that are required for the bedrock of ETH football.

Plus he is a wide player, they have inconsistent general game play, so to constantly play or keep them on the pitch when the FB has their number is a suicidal practice. Yet fans/pundits will always tell us he is the only one capable of scoring in our team, meaning we’d rather have him stinking up the place than try something different.

The most inconsistent players in our team don’t have direct competition for their starting positions. Our manager is too busy making them feel comfortable instead of keeping them on edge. We all see what happens with Shaw when he feels his position is under threat.

Garnacho and Hojlund are both very raw in my opinion and a situation that will require a lot of patience from fans. I also think Garnacho is a Rashford clone with more trickery and it doesn’t fill me with optimism if I’m being honest, though he is likelier to whip a cross in.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Keep him - he's got credit in the bank from last season, but he does have a lot of shit to sort out.

However regardless of who is in charge, nothing will change until we get the owners out and the club structure sorted... so does it really matter?
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Nail on head as usual mate.

Replacing him would be rinse and repeat. We'd end up asking the same questions 18 months from now. Maybe, just maybe, some patience and sorting out the ownership / structure / getting rid of players we have tried to for years and replace them might actually start sorting serious issues out, rather than just replacing the manager for the umpteenth time.
 
Rams said:
Only an idiot makes an opinion on things they are not knowledgeable about. Yes Brighton adapted to our system, but actually we were the better side until the 2nd goal & when EtH started changing the system and making substitutes, which a lot of posters on here are criticizing him for not doing… (it’s so pathetic that people don’t even realize this). We all should have known it’s going to take 2-3 seasons BEFORE we start seeing us challenging, we’re still rebuilding and patience is needed, short term pain for long term gain.
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This 2-3 seasons stuff is just crap, how can the brighton managee deliver a well drilled team having lost their best players in the summer after a short period in the job. Given teh money he has spent we should be seeing clear progress. We are not, its getting worse. This better team rubbish when we get hammered at home could have been 5-1. Teams like Wolves are carving us open at will. Whatever this tactical genius is doing its not working. His signings on the whole are part of the problem. We need a very mobile defensive midfielder and instead we massively overpaid for a geriatric who now looks finished.
 
Gordon Godot said:
This 2-3 seasons stuff is just crap, how can the brighton managee deliver a well drilled team having lost their best players in the summer after a short period in the job. Given teh money he has spent we should be seeing clear progress. We are not, its getting worse. This better team rubbish when we get hammered at home could have been 5-1. Teams like Wolves are carving us open at will. Whatever this tactical genius is doing its not working. His signings on the whole are part of the problem. We need a very mobile defensive midfielder and instead we massively overpaid for a geriatric who now looks finished.
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Whilst I don't think the magic 2/3 seasons is a hard line. The Brighton comparison makes zero sense because under the 2 previous managers they played a similar style and its a process that took them many years. They were playing possession football extremely well under Potter, what was missing was putting away chances.
 
Cassidy said:
Whilst I don't think the magic 2/3 seasons is a hard line. The Brighton comparison makes zero sense because under the 2 previous managers they played a similar style and its a process that took them many years. They were playing possession football extremely well under Potter, what was missing was putting away chances.
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Which gives us a valuable lesson far too many people here and in the club don't understand: Teams have to evolve all the time, and you do it by making gradual changes. Change the manager so that he roughly fits the one before, change the players in a way that fits the current team but allows to slowly adjust it to new developments and to prevent getting locked in a style that will not work some years down the line if you never change anything.

Or in other words: Sack everyone working for the club who talks of "rebuild", ban anyone on this forum who talks about the need for rebuilds.

This is the team you have. Deliver results now. Improve where necessary, but never say a manager can't work with the current squad. He has to, or he is the wrong manager. And even if he is, that's not the end of the world. Look for one who has a realistic approach to the existing squad and the style of play it is used to.

Don't sign a manager who has a vision if he can't explain how the current squad fits this vision.
 
pocco said:
What a crock of shit from start to finish this post is. I'm sorry. The tactical issues that posters are pulling up are entirely viable, you can't possibly say that ETH got it even nearly right yesterday, a blind man can see that. Brighton play the exact same way every game under De Zerbi and ETH hasn't come up with an answer yet. How Brighton can be the best team in Europe, after losing their best players, having a manager for less time than ETH, spending less than us... honestly the excuses are unbearable and the standards are rotten. Yes they're better than us but they shouldn't be. That's the issue. They played us off the park with most of their first choice players missing.

Eventually you will get there and recognise that we're being sold short yet again. I saw these same exact excuses for Ole for so long and it was frustrating listening to them because you knew we were going nowhere fast. But eventually it will get to a point again where enough is enough. We'll have some good days and bad days and probably not finish too far away from the top 4 because we have so many talented players, but there will come a time when even the most ardent ETH defenders get sick of the poor tactics, boring football and ultimately never competing.
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Utter nonsense. This post is approximately the intellectual level of a 4 year old. I’m done replying.
 
TMDaines said:
I don’t understand how once Brighton switched to this, we never adjusted.



We started well and surprised Brighton with our opening approach. But you could see it from the Stretford End that the front three no longer had any chance to make an effective press once Brighton changed how they were lining up. Can the manager not see this from the touchline?
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This is what I mean when I say that it feels like EtH is losing too many of the tactical battles and are too slow to adapt to changes in the opposition. I expect a good manager to be able to plan for that and prepare his team for those changes. We all know that Brighton will spread the game around when the centre is crowded, and I would expect an excellent manager to plan for that. I don't know, maybe I'm being unfair and he has prepared the team properly and our players are just too dense to spot these changes, but then I'd expect him to at least shout at them from the touchline.
 
The Hilton said:
Yeah I didn't see that either - Brighton were clinical while we were wasteful, and after going ahead they were able to pass the ball around and make us chase it.
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They had 56% of possession, double the amount of shots in target, double the xG and around 150 passes more than us. In our stadium.
 
stefan92 said:
Which gives us a valuable lesson far too many people here and in the club don't understand: Teams have to evolve all the time, and you do it by making gradual changes. Change the manager so that he roughly fits the one before, change the players in a way that fits the current team but allows to slowly adjust it to new developments and to prevent getting locked in a style that will not work some years down the line if you never change anything.

Or in other words: Sack everyone working for the club who talks of "rebuild", ban anyone on this forum who talks about the need for rebuilds.

This is the team you have. Deliver results now. Improve where necessary, but never say a manager can't work with the current squad. He has to, or he is the wrong manager. And even if he is, that's not the end of the world. Look for one who has a realistic approach to the existing squad and the style of play it is used to.

Don't sign a manager who has a vision if he can't explain how the current squad fits this vision.
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100%. I have been saying this here for years, we need to have a clear idea and line of what we want this club to look like on the pitch and then adjust everything to make that happen, from our recruitment policy of players, managers and staff, everything has to fit in. You cite Brighton as a good example of how to do things right and I totally agree, there is a reason why they were able to bring in de Zebri and you barely noticed because they brought in someone they knew would fit into their structure and philosophy. We, on the other hand, always seem to go for names. Be it players or managers. Continuity be damned, just throw money at the problem and it will eventually solve itself.
 
I read somewhere that Wan Bissaka is out for few months too because of tendon injury. Makes me wonder wtf is happening that we have so many injuries? Was preseason bad or too hard, is medical team doing bad examinations and approving that players are ready.
 
Widow said:
Anthony and Martinez are his players and it could be argued that we paid so much because EtH wanted them so badly. It look at one point that United were prepared to walk away only to go back and pay a higher fee. True is, we just don't know
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Martinez was Ajax's POTS, Arsenal also wanted him. Ajax wasn't going to sell for peanuts.
For Antony, I don't have excuse. There was misjudgement by ETH's team. He was never a 85m player but after missing out on De jong and two losses, United was desperate to sign someone. Recruitment team should take the blame as much as ETH should.

Sarni said:
Ideally though I would want my manager to be able to tell me I’m not supposed to pay £85m for Antony. If you had managed that player for a couple of years and sanctioned a deal at that amount, there is something wrong here.
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Then don't pay it, the manager is not your boss, Arnold is. Otherwise why would United have football director? Just ask tea lady what she think of the signing and be done with it.
Not saying ETH is blameless but it's never manager's job to decide player's price tag. If United had paid 30-50m for Antony, no one would bat an eye.
 
UnitedWA said:
I read somewhere that Wan Bissaka is out for few months too because of tendon injury. Makes me wonder wtf is happening that we have so many injuries? Was preseason bad or too hard, is medical team doing bad examinations and approving that players are ready.
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Might be we forced ourselves a bit too much last season, playing the same team every 3 days + the crazy pre-season with a lot of games and travelling. Even Casemiro and Eriksen look like they have been running for a full game since minute 1.
 
bond19821982 said:
Wrong . Half of it is spent this year and you aren't willing to give enough time. Out of 60, we were successful in 55. Got a cup, a cup final and a third place.

So in short, your post is contradicting.
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It depends what you mean by successful but we actually have lost at least 15 matches with him in charge. Some of the most successful ones probably being the 7-0 against Liverpool, 6-3 against City, 3-0 against Sevilla, 4-0 against Brentford, 3-1 against Aston Villa (should have been 6-1), the 2-0 vs Newcastle when they looked prime Barca, the 3-1 against Brighton and to be fair every match against Brighton except the one we fought tooth and nail so we can manage to go to penalties. Oh, there was also the successful loss against Spurs, the most one-man team in the league, who actually lost that man a month after getting a new manager.

A massive list of successful achievements.
 
Rams said:
Utter nonsense. This post is approximately the intellectual level of a 4 year old. I’m done replying.
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Good response, well done!

Your argument is basically 'sorry lads, there will be no discussing ETH's tactics on here as nobody knows anything about tactics. Brighton are a top class team, even when they're rolling out Lallana, Welbeck etc, ETH needs his billion pound squad available before we can see what he wants to do'

It's a joke. If you can't recognise the issues with what you're saying then I'm done too, I'm not discussing football with somebody so entrenched in their denial.
 
The only way he gets the sack is of the Glazers want to release the pressure. Then we're back to square one.

It's possible, but sacking him makes no sense, we need to make a decision once the season finishes.
 
Has there been an occasion where he was able to successful claw his side back into the game with adjustments? He seems to approach games with a tactic that works for about 15 minutes until the opposition manager susses it out and tweaks something or the other and he seems to have no response. For someone billed as a great tactical mind and track suit manager, he seems helpless against the top tier of coaches.
 
Those of you who would sack him - what would you propose we do next? Hit reset for the nth time with Nagelsmann or De Zerbi? It'll be equally pointless with the parasites still at the helm with no proper footballing structure in place. I understood sacking Ole since he wasn't a particularly good coach and clearly out of his depth, but even an elite coach would struggle with the setup we have.

Ten Hag clearly needs help in regards to the recruitment side of things, but to bin him off dooms us to the same futile cycle we've endured for a decade that won't be broken until we have a seismic change at the top.
 
He still has credit but not much.

City is playing very high and dominating level and Arsenal go on their progress. We can't catch them even with a good coach. We should find our new special coach ( idk who he is ). ETH showed good sings last year but he could not build on it. Some unlucky situations also did not help us. In my opinion we should look for out special coach to compete Pep's City.

De Zerbi shows some good and hopeful indications about that. If we will be patient for a coach, he must promise us special football. I cant see it with ETH this season.
 
Kaos said:
Those of you who would sack him - what would you propose we do next? Hit reset for the nth time with Nagelsmann or De Zerbi? It'll be equally pointless with the parasites still at the helm with no proper footballing structure in place. I understood sacking Ole since he wasn't a particularly good coach and clearly out of his depth, but even an elite coach would struggle with the setup we have.

Ten Hag clearly needs help in regards to the recruitment side of things, but to bin him off dooms us to the same futile cycle we've endured for a decade that won't be broken until we have a seismic change at the top.
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Get a director of football, a real one, not one who is manager’s bitch. Call the new manager a ‘head coach’ so this cult of manager finally dies. Give to the manager only the power of proposing new players to sign, but the players who are signed are done by DoF and scouts, with them not necessarily being in the manager’s (sorry, head coach) list, neither the head coach having a veto over them.

I think we almost nailed down the solution a year ago. We should have kept Ralf and give him immense power. He is a mediocre head coach, but he was a very good DoF and you can be a bad DoF and a good coach or vice versa.

So yeah, I wouldn’t mind Ralf back and whoever he wants as head coach (probably Nagelsmann). It doesn’t need to be Ralf though, there are many good proven DoFs that we can poach from other clubs.
 
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