Sack, get the Nagelsman in
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
- Status
We hired a club builder to be a coach and when that unsurprisingly didn't work out, hired a coach to be a club builder.
That depends on English teams results this year. I think....not sure.
I'd like to think Murtough and Arnold will take a different approach but I'm not particularly optimistic.
We can point to X, Y and Z and all the reasons we're not doing well, but it's fundamental things we're lacking right now.
Shape, style of play, aggression, physicality, mentality, fitness. There are some individual issues, but we're lacking some of the core fundamentals as a collective unit also.
Shape, style of play, aggression, physicality, mentality, fitness. There are some individual issues, but we're lacking some of the core fundamentals as a collective unit also.
I am not sure what would make him lose the dressing room support. They kind of ended the season on a high note compared to our previous seasons. The recent dramas were not of his making, and he dealt with them the best he could.
It has been evident since last March that League freaking cup is his ceiling as a coach and the team peaked back then. That's it. We aren't going anywhere further than that under him.
But it's United, so we have to keep on deluding ourselves about imaginary development and give as many excuses as possible for a coach who can't do his job properly.
Congratulations on finishing top 4 and winning the league cup, which is supposed to be the standard for success nowadays for Ten Hag fans.
But it's United, so we have to keep on deluding ourselves about imaginary development and give as many excuses as possible for a coach who can't do his job properly.
Congratulations on finishing top 4 and winning the league cup, which is supposed to be the standard for success nowadays for Ten Hag fans.
Brighton didn’t start playing this way only at the start of last season. Chris Hughton and Graham Potter built a system that all the players understand. This is Ten Hag’s second season, and he is still putting pieces in place to play a different way. He is still getting rid of deadwood like Martial. Top 4 will be a struggle, but if he gets it (a big “if”), I’d think next season is when it will be his players, his philosophy, his tactics. We should see improvement this season, especially when his new signings can play 90 minutes, but judging him at this point is too early — even though he got some things wrong today.
De Zerbi would come here and instantly look like shite. It’s one thing to manage a plucky underdog like Brighton but the moment you step on this stage you’re on the hot seat.
Agreed with you Friend. And he seems so stubborn as well. We are just so cursed with these coaches.
When the two (three if you count Greenwood) missing are potentially filling the same position, and the other similar players are known to be shit at RW then yeah, you look at alternatives.
Playing McT - who should have played there then?
I get the issue with not changing at HT, but (a) we’d played better in 1st half than the second and (b) again, who would you have brought on?
Wide player for McT: leaves you with a poor Casemiro and weak Eriksen as your midfield 2.
So, again, what changes would have miraculously turned it around - bringing Martial on sooner? Maguire as ST? Or throw the kids to the wolves?
Spot on. Didn’t think of it like that
Mate, whenever you read that "He's the best manager we've had since Fergie" line on any new manager thread just know it will be followed by a load of meaningless waffle. Since LvG, all our managers have had it said about them to justify fan love-in and make the previous manager(s) look shite in comparison. Imagine thinking ETH is a better manager than the version of Jose that we hired, who was at that point the most recent winner of the premier league.
You'll need this hero soon
Yikes.. thats scary. That picture is way too big. I did not enjoy slowly scrolling past his rather large head
They should both be gone. They have zero vision for the club beyond telling the manager "here's some money for transfers, have at it".
By all accounts, ETH demanded the control and wanted to bin Ralf. I'm far from his biggest fan, but im pretty sure he would've stopped us from spending 85m on Antony
It doesn't make any sense to sack the manager immediately after having brought in all the players he wanted. For better or worse, he should have this season to either make his vision work or prove that it's not going to.
The only hope is that the club gets sold and new owners are willing to do a major overhaul next summer if ETH's vision turns out to be a bust.
The only hope is that the club gets sold and new owners are willing to do a major overhaul next summer if ETH's vision turns out to be a bust.
Frustratingly accurate.
The people above both have been absolute knobs this entire time, too. I feel for ETH. I'm not actually convinced anybody right now could come in and make us look better for the duration of this season. I'm not talking about a new manager bounce, but the longer term. The club still needs a root and branch fixing and overhaul.
The way I look at it is to look at Arteta. Took him until his 3rd full season, last season to improve Arsenal. He finished 8th in his first half season, 8th second season, 5th third season.
Fergie even took 4 seasons to win a trophy, FA cup, and he finished 11th and 13th in those first four seasons. He also had to clear out a lot of players.
Unless we are losing badly fairly regularly, when he has his injured players back, then he should be given the time.
We have sacked all the managers fairly quickly and rightly so, so far, but it hasnt made us any better long term. At least TH is trying from this season to bring in players that want to play for Utd and not for the paycheck.
Fergie even took 4 seasons to win a trophy, FA cup, and he finished 11th and 13th in those first four seasons. He also had to clear out a lot of players.
Unless we are losing badly fairly regularly, when he has his injured players back, then he should be given the time.
We have sacked all the managers fairly quickly and rightly so, so far, but it hasnt made us any better long term. At least TH is trying from this season to bring in players that want to play for Utd and not for the paycheck.
I tend to agree. However I think the owners play a big role too. We've seen at other clubs like Everton and Monaco that just having a "proper" dof employed doesn't guarantee anything. Not to say those two should have a second chance under new ownership, just that they're probably being reigned in by the Glazers.
We are absolutely going to finish out side the top 4 so you either sack him now or hope he can fix it next season.
Fans blaming this disaster class solely on the owners are kidding themselves. Responsibility from top to bottom, including the manager and players. It’s a continuous cycle of ineptitude.
And shaw
he certainly hasn’t been helped having to revert back to make shift defences, McT and injury to most of his summer signings.
Haven't he spent £450m in just two season? Some managers could do more with less. It is not like we have starved him of players. That amount is more than enough to buy players to fit his style. Heck, he implemented a style with much less at Ajax
. So no doubt that he has been backed. If you want to argue whether he has been backed properly, that also don't hold much water because we don't have a DoF or sporting director. The players we signed seems more his signing than the club signing.Nothing will change until we get rid of the Glazers anyway.
Absolutely. Goes without saying the Glazers need to go and are largely culpable for this mess.
It's looking more and more like a huge mistake.
Thought that Ronaldo was THE problem. Since he's removed, supposedly we now have a house full of angels.
Last edited:
He had Pellistri. Not a world beater but decent right winger with who you don't need to do all other changes. That means that McT doesn't need to play, that Bruno can play on his best position and that you can play you system which you play over the year now.
All of sudden Case-Eriksen-Bruno midfield is completely shit? Can't play with it against Brighton at home?
Yeah the ownership is responsible for the horrible structure but the manager is also responsible for the tactics and system. He has clearly switched his system from last season and we are more porous.
Out of all the big teams, it’s fair to say as things currently stand we look like the most likely to implode…..but we are still only in September to be fair.
He has been thoroughly beaten by a team that had Lallana and Welbeck as its attackers and a very inexperienced Adingra next to them. A midfield of converted Groß and Dahoud who wasn’t a huge success at Dortmund. It really wasn’t the lack of quality compared to Brighton that has made us look clueless against them time after time.
I pretty much agree with your point, but man has Casemiro been awful this season.
There’s the problem, right now there isn’t anyone currently available who we can get. At the time of his appointment though I wanted Poch who I know isn’t everyone’s cup of tea but for where we are at a club right now and what he’s done in this league, I thought he’d have been perfect for us. Right now though, I’m not sure.
I am not blaming the manager here, shit window and loans. Nothing will change with these owners. The bright days of Utd being sold have now turned sour. He has had a lot to deal with injuries and the club being in the shits. Hope we stick this out and he is given a chance under new owners.
Arteta was afforded the luxury of improving whilst those around him in the league stood still baring City and Liverpool of course. ETH is putting on a shit show whilst all of our rivals, apart from maybe Chelsea and teams like Brighton, Newcastle and even Villa have all got their shit together and improved leaps and bounds. We at the moment seem to be going backwards.
I was always defending English setup inside clubs where managers (some more, some less) are building squads. More and more i am inclined to setup which is around Europe where manager is the coach. Dof is building the squad (not someone like Murtough of course ) and coach is working with that.
This extreme what we did with ETH is completely wrong approach.
) and coach is working with that.This extreme what we did with ETH is completely wrong approach.
Way too soon for this thread.
It's nowhere near thinking of this how we did with Moyes, LVG or Ole.
The only criticism is he's showing alot of signs of stubbornness such as playing players out of position, or persisting to not play players that deserve a chance like Pellestri today.
He keeps trying to replace AWB as soon as he can but AWB is our best player defensively and should have been the one chosen today to deal with Mitoma. If that meant Reguilon or Dalot didn't start then so be it.
He's had a lot of situations to deal with that aren't his fault but the Antony one is on him, and Antony wouldn't have lived up to even half the price tag.
If he continues to be stubborn and rigid in playing the same way and not adjusting he'll fall like the previously mentioned managers. At this point he's shown that his way of playing can work against even the best teams but not consistently against all teams and definitely not away from home.
I believe Ten Hag will have this season to prove his ideas can make the club successful but if he misses out on top 4 then he's under the same pressure any other person would be.
Things he's not at fault for:
-Maguire not leaving or club not paying him off and not signing a good CB
-Greenwood situation
-Current injury list
Things he is at fault for:
-Recruitment of Antony
-Signing Mount for CM when we all know we needed a more suited player for the position
-Consistently dropping AWB and losing games being outdone by wingers
-Not getting the best out of Bruno Fernandes at no8/10
If he continues these traits he's fecked:
-Not playing AWB until he has a better replacement player
-Not playing Amrabat CM next to Casemiro when he's fit
-Not using Mason Mount as our RW atleast until Antony returns, when Mason's fit he could be our best RW that isn't called Greenwood
I hope he isn't still stubborn on the last 3 points. If he is, he'll leave Old Trafford on his shield.
It's nowhere near thinking of this how we did with Moyes, LVG or Ole.
The only criticism is he's showing alot of signs of stubbornness such as playing players out of position, or persisting to not play players that deserve a chance like Pellestri today.
He keeps trying to replace AWB as soon as he can but AWB is our best player defensively and should have been the one chosen today to deal with Mitoma. If that meant Reguilon or Dalot didn't start then so be it.
He's had a lot of situations to deal with that aren't his fault but the Antony one is on him, and Antony wouldn't have lived up to even half the price tag.
If he continues to be stubborn and rigid in playing the same way and not adjusting he'll fall like the previously mentioned managers. At this point he's shown that his way of playing can work against even the best teams but not consistently against all teams and definitely not away from home.
I believe Ten Hag will have this season to prove his ideas can make the club successful but if he misses out on top 4 then he's under the same pressure any other person would be.
Things he's not at fault for:
-Maguire not leaving or club not paying him off and not signing a good CB
-Greenwood situation
-Current injury list
Things he is at fault for:
-Recruitment of Antony
-Signing Mount for CM when we all know we needed a more suited player for the position
-Consistently dropping AWB and losing games being outdone by wingers
-Not getting the best out of Bruno Fernandes at no8/10
If he continues these traits he's fecked:
-Not playing AWB until he has a better replacement player
-Not playing Amrabat CM next to Casemiro when he's fit
-Not using Mason Mount as our RW atleast until Antony returns, when Mason's fit he could be our best RW that isn't called Greenwood
I hope he isn't still stubborn on the last 3 points. If he is, he'll leave Old Trafford on his shield.
- Status